Valgus Squatting?

[Guest guest]

The discussion below featured a while ago on the Testosterone.net site

regarding the tendency of the knees to go into 'valgus' (knock kneed

position) during the early stages of the upward part of the movement. It may

be of some interest here because this sort of issue often confronts anyone

who is squatting.

< Q: My knees collapse when I squat. I heard of a trick where the lifter

wraps a belt around his thighs and concentrates on pushing against it while

squatting. It's supposed to cure the problem. What's your opinion on this

technique? Also, when the knees fall in, is it a problem with strength or

flexibility?

Poliquin responded:

A: The creators and proponents of this technique really screwed up on this

one. Their interpretation of the knee-buckling problem is that it's caused by

weak hip abductors. Then they make you fire your hip abductors while doing an

exercise that primarily recruits the hip extensors, thus sending confusing

messages to the brain.>

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Mel Siff:

Here is another excellent example of how a little understanding of

kinesiology can be a dangerous thing. Had Poliquin] ever taken EMGs of the

leg muscles during normal walking, sitting and squatting he would have

noticed that the hip extensors happen to show phases of activity during all

of those basic actions.

Even without a band or belt around the thighs, the abductors become markedly

activated while the lifter deliberately tries to keep the knees from moving

inwards (i.e., displaying valgus). This hardly confuses the brain, which is

perfectly able to cope with much more complex muscle interactions than simply

pushing the knees outwards. Impressive sounding words, but no science behind

them, unless possibly the person has never squatted before!

Just in case another kinesiological error is perpetrated, let it be pointed

out that the tendency of the knees to tilt inwards to a certain degree is

quite normal, as it is a stabilising action associated with both

gastrocnemius and the various adductors of the thigh. It is only when this

action becomes excessive that it can place structures such as the medial

meniscus at special risk.

Because of the same actions of the knee extensors of the hip and knee, the

so-called 'double knee bend' used by Olympic lifters tends to take place

quite naturally without any deliberate effort by the lifter. A deliberate

effort simply serves to make this rather reflexive action more marked.

Among skilled powerlifters and weightlifters, there is a regular interplay

between the extensors of knee and hip as well as among the adduction,

abduction and rotator functions of many of the muscles of the thighs and

legs. The body is quite capable of integrating any increase in abductor

activation in one plane without causing the brain to become confused.

Anyway, making reference to the brain in this context can create the

impression that all signals from the proprioceptors in the joints and muscles

always go directly to the brain. That simply is incorrect. That only happens

to any major extent in the early stages of motor learning when one is

learning a complex and novel activity which implicates the brain in cognitive

problem-solving and decision-making.

In the case of pushing against a belt around one's knees, the cognitive phase

of learning passes very rapidly and subsequent repetitions are controlled by

reflex actions at the spinal level of the motor neurons feeding the limbs

concerned. Basically, it means that the brain could not really be bothered

once a given motor action has been learned.

Poliquin:

Eventually, you'll be forced to use a dinky load that doesn't overload the

hip extensor chain properly. You'll develop a brand new faulty recruitment

pattern, and you won't fix the real causes of the problem.

Siff:

Once again no scientific evidence or references are provided, only sheer

conjecture. Using a belt around the thigh (or the touch of one's fingers or

something elastic, as is used by the Russians) is only meant to serve as a

proprioceptive training device, not as a direct mechanical aid to

stabilisation, as we discuss in the chapter " Kinaesthetic Manipulation " in

" Supertraining " (Siff, 2000, Ch 8). Note that I am not stating that the

indiscriminate use of an unyielding belt is the best way to solve the

problem, only that the explanation given here is no better than faulty use of

that belt. It is simply a case of " the pot calling the kettle black. "

It is only if you use any teaching tool in an inappropriate manner that

faulty recruitment patterns may be acquired, just as overuse or misuse of a

lifting belt and wraps can also lead to unwanted functional or psychological

changes.

Poliquin:

I find this technical approach rather idiotic, at best.

Siff:

I wonder how Chek feels about Poliquin's evaluations of his work like this,

Especially since they are not supported by any scientific evidence or valid

logic?

Poliquin:

It doesn't address the real potential sources of the problem, like having a

weak vastus medialis and/or adhesions between the adductor magnus and the

medial hamstrings.

Siff:

No research has ever shown that the problem of knees has anything to do with

alleged weakness of vastus medialis or muscle adhesions. This, once again,

is sheer conjecture. The fact that this problem can be solved very rapidly

with some suitable teaching techniques and no therapeutic intervention

reveals that the problem has a lot more to do with neuromotor learning than

muscle pathology.

How one can state that weak vastus medialis may be a cause of this problem is

also very misleading. We could equally well state that it may be due to

" overactive " or " stronger " adductors of the thigh or " weak " abductors of the

thigh, " weak " adductor magnus (which also causes lateral rotation of the

thigh) or " too strong " an action of vastus medialis.

Poliquin:

These sort of symptoms are very common in hockey players and figure skaters

because of over-recruitment of the vastus lateralis and the overuse of the

hip adductor and hip extensors chains.

Siff:

Now it is vastus LATERALIS to blame - first it may be medialis which is

associated with tension on the medial or inward-pulling side of the quads,

then is it is lateralis which is associated with exactly the opposite action!

Why not blame it on the arm biceps? What exactly is meant by

" over-recruitment " of a muscle? If one over-recruits, that means that one is

exceeding the limits of recruitment and that will cause voluntary rupturing

of the entire muscle! There is no such thing as over-recruitment in

voluntary human movement.

Poliquin:

How do you correct this problem? Well, it goes beyond the scope of this

column, as it takes about eight hours of private seminar time to cover. But

one thing's for sure, the belt trick won't alleviate the situation. If you

want to learn how to solve this and other biomechanical problems, you can

either host or come to a private seminar-I only accept up to five people.

Siff:

If the discussion in this short column of Testo mag offers only a partial

glimpse into what an extended seminar will offer, then one can only vaguely

imagine how many other errors of biomechanics will take place over a period

of 8 hours. There are many competent coaches who teach most people to solve

this squatting problem in not too many minutes. Pop in at my facility next

time you are passing through Denver and I will show you for nothing!

Maybe this type of loose muscle mag jargon and movement analysis impresses

some less discerning readers, but this sort of article stresses the

importance of using a skilled reviewer to check through such material before

one goes public with it. ... The scientific community is by no means perfect

in this respect, but its peer review system at least tends to minimise this

sort of misinformation.

Chek:

Well, Dr. Siff, I will tell you, this time I agree with you! Hell may have

just frozen over! In regards to your question about what I think about

Poliquin's comments.... well, I just don't understand what has happened to

his mind. In early 1995 when I met Poliquin, he was a much less

arrogant and much more open man.

He once told me " , it only takes five brain cells to be a bodybuilder and

it takes five to bark! " . You may ask, why did say this... " because

he HATED BODYBUILDERS AND BODYBUILDING AS A SPORT " ; now, he has proven that

he has become one!

Isn't it amazing what time, a lot of under the counter supplements and a

bunch of isolation machines can do to your brain? I feel sorry for .

I really like the guy overall, but I must admit that he certainly isn't doing

much for our relationship with that sort of comment... " it's not the first

time " .

Why do I use the belt to improve what I call " medial rotational instability " ?

Just as Dr. Siff said, it is most often a motor learning issue. I use the

belt as a teaching aid, or proprioceptive prop of sorts. When the client's

knees drop inward as a result of excessive pronation, the belt falls down

their legs and they immediately realize they allowed the supinator muscles of

the leg to shut off. In short order, they learn to squat properly. I have

also given the exercise to back pain patients (as presented in my " Scientific

Back Training " video program)as a means of conditioning the supinator muscles

of the hip/leg (external rotators if you prefer) in a closed kinetic

environment. This is particularly useful for those who have lost muscle

strength and/or developed faulty motor patterns after an L5/S1 disc bulge or

in the presence of frank clinical instability of the lumbosacral junction.

This approach is but one of literally hundreds of exercises I use. Each

approach is specific to the client's particular findings and needs.

can throw all the stones he wants at me. I don't care. I don't love him for

what he knows, It's his jokes that I like. Poliquin, if you read this, why

don't you give me a call so I can save you unwanted embarrassment in the

future.

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Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA