Re: More than you ever wanted to know about PROTEIN

[Guest guest]

Ithink there is also developing evidence that the high- protein diets

contribute to osteoporosis later in life. I've read numerous times

medical concern that the Atkins Diet will create an epidemic of this

condition. It's always important to consider the longevity of

humans, which makes it difficult to compare them to farm animals, for

example, who rarely die of old age, and therefore don't have the

comparable diseases of aging. Our pets are a completely different

issue, as is the matter of pet foods which tend to be sub-standard,

and contain curious ingredients like phosphoric acid to

enable " tongue tingle " ... so the poor critters will eat that cr#p!

Phosphoric acid also contributes to tooth decay (another example is

in human young who drink a lot of soda) and osteoporosis. It's such

a befuddled, muddled, mixed bag that it's hard to figure out what's

causing what to whom!

Dani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Almost everyone talks about the Atkin's " scandal " in the beginning

and that was mostly

> about over-proteinization from diet. I have heard from multiple

sources that there were

[Guest guest]

Ithink there is also developing evidence that the high- protein diets

contribute to osteoporosis later in life. I've read numerous times

medical concern that the Atkins Diet will create an epidemic of this

condition. It's always important to consider the longevity of

humans, which makes it difficult to compare them to farm animals, for

example, who rarely die of old age, and therefore don't have the

comparable diseases of aging. Our pets are a completely different

issue, as is the matter of pet foods which tend to be sub-standard,

and contain curious ingredients like phosphoric acid to

enable " tongue tingle " ... so the poor critters will eat that cr#p!

Phosphoric acid also contributes to tooth decay (another example is

in human young who drink a lot of soda) and osteoporosis. It's such

a befuddled, muddled, mixed bag that it's hard to figure out what's

causing what to whom!

Dani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Almost everyone talks about the Atkin's " scandal " in the beginning

and that was mostly

> about over-proteinization from diet. I have heard from multiple

sources that there were

[Guest guest]

Will,

When you mention people blowing out their kidneys from eating 5-10# of

processed meat daily, are you implying that the processing of the meat

is the issue?

It would be interesting to get an opinion from WAPF on kidney problems

from eating too much meat. Could you post to the chapter leaders list

on this topic? I'd like to know what Sally Fallon's views are on this.

I've always thought of Atkins as being more of a low-carb, high fat

protocol, as opposed to something like South Beach which leans more

toward low-carb, high-protein. The anti-Atkins promoters agree. The

vegan site www.diseaseproof.com has a breakdown of a typical Atkins

day:

Total Calories 2550

Grams of Total Fat 167

Grams of Saturated 60

Total Fat Calories 1530

Saturated Fat Calories 540

% of Calories from Total Fat 60

% of Calories from Saturated Fat 21

This doesn't look much different from a NT style diet breakdown. Seems

to me that if Atkins is over-proteinized, then we all might be as well.

~Greg

[Guest guest]

Will,

When you mention people blowing out their kidneys from eating 5-10# of

processed meat daily, are you implying that the processing of the meat

is the issue?

It would be interesting to get an opinion from WAPF on kidney problems

from eating too much meat. Could you post to the chapter leaders list

on this topic? I'd like to know what Sally Fallon's views are on this.

I've always thought of Atkins as being more of a low-carb, high fat

protocol, as opposed to something like South Beach which leans more

toward low-carb, high-protein. The anti-Atkins promoters agree. The

vegan site www.diseaseproof.com has a breakdown of a typical Atkins

day:

Total Calories 2550

Grams of Total Fat 167

Grams of Saturated 60

Total Fat Calories 1530

Saturated Fat Calories 540

% of Calories from Total Fat 60

% of Calories from Saturated Fat 21

This doesn't look much different from a NT style diet breakdown. Seems

to me that if Atkins is over-proteinized, then we all might be as well.

~Greg

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

I am not Will nor am I incredibly knowledgeable. I am trying to following an NT

diet. My diet is high in fat and my cholesterol is the lowest it has ever been.

On the other hand, a person I know who did the Atkins diet, I have hardly

anyting in common with his diet. For instance, for breakfast, I may have two

eggs and one slice of toast with butter, with fresh fruit, maybe some tomatoes

or some other veggies if I make an ommlette. His breakfast on the other hand

consisted of black coffee and a dozen eggs, He did this nearly daily.

For dinner, I will almost always have meat, tonight is fish, tomorrow is

chicken. We probably eat about 6-8 oz of meat. In addition I have one starch,

either bread, rice, or potatoes or corn. I usually have a fresh salad of some

sort (spinach, napa cabbage or plain lettuce with other veggies, oil and vinegar

based dressing). I try to have 2 additional veggies as well. We are bad with

dessert and have it almost daily, but I try to incorporate fruit into the

dessert as well.

My friend on the other hand would have no veggies or starches, and would grill

about 4-5 pounds of sausages and that alone would be his dinner. He lost a ton

of weight on this diet, and therefore argued it was good.

I do not know if I am really eating an NT diet, and I do not know if he was

really following the atkins, both both of us are trying our best to do what we

feel is right and what we believe is the interpretation of the diets. And I

have to argue that his diet made me feel ill, and is quite different than mine.

Carol

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to make some comments about the Atkins diet. Many

people just eat meat, but that is not the diet. Breakfast is eggs,

spinach and mushrooms. Lunch and dinner has AT LEAST two cups of

salad and low-starch vegetables. You do not eat mega quantities of

protein, but only until you start to feel satiated, NOT even full.

Dr. Atkins wrote many books outlining this, but meat and cheese is

easier than preparing vegetables and you can not even find vegetables

when eating out, so many people just did what was easier and avoided

the vegetables.

But in reality, he had more vegetables in even his kick-start (TWO

weeks ONLY) diet than most people eat that are not on a *diet*. I

don't know many people who eat vegetables for breakfast, and in all

three meals everyday. After the two weeks the vegetables go up even

higher. In addition, he clearly made the case for a higher fat diet

as Sally Fallon does. If one is having problems on the diet, the

answer was to increase the fat, specifically cream cheese, not the

protein. This higher fat diet is exactly what Dr. Price found was

necessary.

While Dr. Atkins did allow for some processed meat, it was never the

majority of the diet or in large quantities. And traditional foods

have always had some `processed' meats in the form of bacon, hams and

dry sausage dating back over 2000 years. The problem in these foods

currently is the commercial profit driven processing that adds

chemicals (like liquid smoke), soy flour and corn syrup –something

Dr. Atkins would never have agreed with! The nitrates have actually

been there for centuries. We ate them in smaller quantities and with

lots of good healthy saturated fats – another important component of

the Atkins program.

He also argued for organic, nutrient-dense foods. Cream cheese from

organic, 100% grass-fed cows is an excellent source of nutrition

(made from cream, like butter is), so I think we should give Dr.

Atkins more credit for being ahead of his time, and enduring much

harassment from the Medical establishment, and give those who don't

want to take the time to eat the organic vegetables that go with the

diet, or ignore the fat and just eat protein-especially convenient

processed protein, the hard time. That is a choice they are making.

Same for the diet reviewers who don't read the books.

While he may be more carb-avoiding than Nourishing Traditions, and he

wasn't onto the idea of soaking grains (like Mercola), the diet is

not protein only. Perhaps this is why his review and endorsement of

Sally's book is listed on the first page of her book.

Don't just go off magazine articles or what people are doing who say

they are on *that diet*, instead read the book(s) thoroughly to

understand the program, then of course, do what ever works best for

you.

Jan

> On the other hand, a person I know who did the Atkins diet, I have

hardly anyting in common with his diet. For instance, for breakfast,

I may have two eggs and one slice of toast with butter, with fresh

fruit, maybe some tomatoes or some other veggies if I make an

ommlette. His breakfast on the other hand consisted of black coffee

and a dozen eggs, He did this nearly daily.

>

> For dinner, I will almost always have meat, tonight is fish,

tomorrow is chicken. We probably eat about 6-8 oz of meat. In

addition I have one starch, either bread, rice, or potatoes or corn.

I usually have a fresh salad of some sort (spinach, napa cabbage or

plain lettuce with other veggies, oil and vinegar based dressing). I

try to have 2 additional veggies as well. We are bad with dessert

and have it almost daily, but I try to incorporate fruit into the

dessert as well.

>

> My friend on the other hand would have no veggies or starches, and

would grill about 4-5 pounds of sausages and that alone would be his

dinner. He lost a ton of weight on this diet, and therefore argued

it was good.

>

> I do not know if I am really eating an NT diet, and I do not know

if he was really following the atkins, both both of us are trying our

best to do what we feel is right and what we believe is the

interpretation of the diets. And I have to argue that his diet made

me feel ill, and is quite different than mine.

>

> Carol

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are also studies comparing 7th Day Adventists (vegetarians) to

the Latter-Day-Saints (Mormons) who are meat consuming, but have other

similar lifestyles-no alcohol, no smoking, etc. and the Mormons have

been found healthier in those studies.

Jan

>... The 7th Day Adventists and other vegetarian groups have some

pretty good studies about

> kidney-sparing lowered protein diet, particularly with regard to

longevity. NB that no one

> is talking about lower protein quality, it's all about quantity.

> ...

>> I think it deserves more discussion.

>

> Will Winter

>

[Guest guest]

While we're on the subject of protein, I'm doing research on soy

(specifically, if it's the plant itself that is the endocrine

disruptor, or the herb/pesticide in GM modified soy that is the

disruptor), and as has quite often been the case lately, am finding

some excellent reference articles at wikipedia.... starting points to

examine both sides of the argument. Some corroborates the WAP Fdn.,

some not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean

Dani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> I just wanted to make some comments about the Atkins diet. Many

> people just eat meat, but that is not the diet. Breakfast is eggs,

> spinach and mushrooms. Lunch and dinner has AT LEAST two cups of

> salad and low-starch vegetables. You do not eat mega quantities of

> protein, but only until you start to feel satiated, NOT even full.

> Dr. Atkins wrote many books outlining this, but meat and cheese is

> easier than preparing vegetables and you can not even find

vegetables

> when eating out, so many people just did what was easier and avoided

> the vegetables.... post trimmed.