Guest guest Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 While I can't speak directly on EFT, I can state WITHOUT DOUBT from witnessing, experiencing, and (years) practicing that the internal state of the doctor/practitioner/chiropractor IS a factor - in any kind of interaction - and especially in a potential for healing that we have the opportunity with as chiropractors. There are certainly ways of adjusting (or even manipulating...) that can decrease a person's physical symptom, at least temporarily, resetting muscle spindle fibers, etc., without being very mindful of one's thoughts or state. However, in the truly 'magical' adjustments, entrainments, and life 'healing' that I have experienced or played a role in, there was *always* some kind of connection, centered-ness, or practice that the practitioner/doctor held, which created the space of safety (yes, emotional safety) and therefore receptivity for the client to be willing to connect within their bodymind on a much deeper, sometimes profound level. From that place of connection within, almost 'magical' healing takes place. It is not 'easy' (due to our many distractions, social media, negative mass conscious thoughts, & often just lack of practice etc.), however, it can be simple. As an example on 'state'. I've facilitated student/doctor practice groups, most often in the context of Network Spinal Analysis. Sometimes the volunteer student/doctor would lay down on the table, and their respiration (spinal visual respiratory movement) would become very shallow, as though their body was guarding/bracing as if prepared for a (perhaps verbal) attack. I would then ask each person in the focus group to put their hands on their chest/heart area and take a breath in the nose, and out the mouth. Then bring love into their heart. Empty their thoughts, and put their attention on serving the person on the table. Invariably the 'patient' would then relax, start 'breathing' again, or sit up and share a more profound observation of how they felt prior to this simple exercise, and after. This was without ever 'touching' the patient at all. The more attuned & clear our internal (i.e. nervous) system is, the more perceptive (and receptive) our body can be to the subtle cues of our environment. This includes subtle cues from the people around us, and allows us to adapt to potential stressful situations, avoid or transmute unnecessary conflict, make different choices on an instinctual level, and (if our signal is strong enough - think Mother , Gandi, Jesus, etc.), even help change the state of those around and connected to us. I find that when I've taken the time to do my inner work and practices, my ability to hold the possibility of limitless potential in my heart and mind creates some surprising and sometimes profound changes for clients. I also find that when I'm not in that state, and/or having difficulty remaining there long enough for my adjustments/entrainments, I often experience disappointment, self-irritation, and (occasionally) even anger at myself for not being at my best for my clients. The difficulty and challenge when one is open to the above, is in acceptance of total and complete responsibility for one's thoughts, limiting beliefs, and internal state - especially when working with clients. It is a (wonderful) yet at times challenging piece of work to be completely accountable. It certainly won't harm our patients to center ourselves, come from a place of unconditional love and acceptance, and hold the potential and suspension in our minds for limitless healing - before ever putting our hands on them. The only reason I would imagine there would be intrepidation about trying that simple exercise, would be in raising the accountability bar so much higher than a simple, mechanistic view of correcting or fixing something that's often seen as 'broken'. What if the subluxation IS the medicine? How do we facilitate our client to more perfectly digest it, with appropriate conscious awareness to the degree it calls for? Their innate wisdom has the key...we just have to KNOW it...and use a little WD-40 to help it along. Good to be here everyone - looking forward to more! And a big thank-you to Rod , DC - the one who first introduced me to Chiropractic over 18 years ago. Thank you Rod - I can't imagine what life would have been like without Chiropractic, this work, or this wonderful path and opportunity we have to support humanity to flourish... _________________________________ Dr. Dawn Sea Kahrs, DC Graceful Waves Chiropractic P.O. Box 53 Wheeler, OR 97147 Phone: (503) 374-9504 E-mail: dawnseakahrs@... " Be the change you wish to see in the world. " -Mahatma Gandhi " Healing is the revealing of one's inherent wholeness. Its midwife and child is contribution in humanity. " -Dawn Sea Kahrs, DC On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Charlie Caughlin wrote: > Okay les rather than quote someone else your thoughts? > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > EFT > > > > > > Docs: > > Here is another short video on EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) that > explains it a little better > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQp0kA5a5OI & amp;NR=1 > > I was just curious if anyone has tried it and if it yielded material > results on a consistent basis. My skepticism of these kinds of > techniques stems from my days at WSCC when a fellow classmate, who had > studied directly under Goodheart, was student-teaching us AK > and began to venture off into the metaphysical by showing us that > someone standing at the other end of a long hall could influence the > muscle testing on another subject just by thinking negative thoughts > about them. That's when I lost interest in AK. When the attitude of > the examiner or someone else present in the room, such as a surrogate > (or even someone clear across the country), can influence the outcome > of your examination and/or treatment, I just can't seem to buy it and > wouldn't feel comfortable charging for it under the chiropractic > umbrella. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com <http://www.SalemSpineClinic.com> > Evolving Doctors <http://www.mcgillonline.com/Doctors> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage at: > / > Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC) > Groups Links > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Docs: WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if you don't have the time to devote to it, get back to work and do whatever it is you do to justify taking people's money. :-) My purpose for the post on EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point in a previous post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, admittedly, to weed out who I would comfortably refer to around the state, since on more than one occasion I have had a patient call me up after a referral asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred them to was a little too "weird." While we're not the only profession with a spattering of "weirdos" (and I realize that the diagnosis of "weirdo" is predicated on the biases of the diagnostician), we do have enough practitioners utilizing, shall I say, "unconventional" methods of diagnosis and treatment to hinder our "acceptance" into "mainstream" healthcare. This has been the case since our inception and will never change. To think that we as an association here in Oregon are going to unite the profession and achieve financial/third-party parity with the medical profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be undermined by individuals who engage in "unscientific" and unproven diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the intern at WSCC who used to place the patient prone on the table then extract a crystal on a string from his pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and adjust them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If full parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be alive to see it. Of course, if we're not interested in third party pay, then unbridled diversity is acceptable and will be financed by a gullible segment of the population who have made charlatanism a profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that the person doing the diagnosing probably has a "cure" to sell, and the "cure" often determines the diagnosis. For those who practice any of the "X"FT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but the ultimate goal is to "clear" the patient of all interference so that "innate" (or whatever you wish to label it) can fully express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about themselves and your tratment. However, this best of intentions is soon undermined by your receptionist's effort to collect money from them, or, when they get home, their husband's tirade over what your "miracle" treatment is costing "him." Maybe we should just put a collection box in our reception areas and let people donate whatever they feel is appropriate for the care they are getting. I think some DE docs tried this a few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. It would, however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even take it one step farther and be totally altruistic, treating everyone for free, just like Jesus and doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win the lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropractic care for everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if what I have to offer people is truly a priceless gift from the gods, then who am I to put a bounty on it? That only trivializes and carnalizes it. Finally, I would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that Medicare and third-party payors will accept, but certainly one we can all rally around as a profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only task now is to decide who gets to determine which techniques effectively achieve that objective. Constantly Evolv-ing, Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com Evolving Doctors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Dr. McGill,I can appreciate your passion for what we have all been trained to do, but beg to differ about your view of the profession as too diverse to enjoy an even health care playing field. Chiropractic's strength is in our unique history of drawing on Nature's mysteries with the eye of the scientist. Our common creative free-will continues to reveal connections, relationships, patterns, perceptions, practices and so on uniquely. Nonetheless, we are united by the scientific process of our training. It is specifically our Nature-based orientation to health that is our real potency, as unique individuals apply the scientific process.Les suggested correctly that it is the quality of the interface with the individual that allows our scientific eyes to share evidence collectively. It's anachronistic to consider humanity uniformly mechanical enough to respond to anonymous taps on the body for corrections. By combining a positive visualization with the tapping, the science of Herbert Benson's relaxation response (intentional visualization) initiates parasympathetica and it's attendant benefits. When we are able to bring science forward from our individual investigations of life, the profession advances science. With Nature as chiropractic's field of reference, we've drawn practitioners as diverse as Nature itself. Chiropractic is stronger for it; and we all stronger because of chiropractic. Let's look toward what is best for our patients (and ourselves), rather than what is required to qualify for third-party pay. The obstacle that could hinder us is failing to respect our different ways of investigating life and providing compassionate care. We don't have to understand or appreciate what others may be doing, but we can respect our mutual training and Nature-based orientation. By trusting in our capacity as trained scientists, we achieve a unity even within our diversity, and Nature is our best example of diversity working in seamless beauty and grace. Thanks for your thoughtful post. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Feb 9, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: Docs: WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if you don't have the time to devote to it, get back to work and do whatever it is you do to justify taking people's money. :-) My purpose for the post on EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point in a previous post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, admittedly, to weed out who I would comfortably refer to around the state, since on more than one occasion I have had a patient call me up after a referral asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred them to was a little too "weird." While we're not the only profession with a spattering of "weirdos" (and I realize that the diagnosis of "weirdo" is predicated on the biases of the diagnostician), we do have enough practitioners utilizing, shall I say, "unconventional" methods of diagnosis and treatment to hinder our "acceptance" into "mainstream" healthcare. This has been the case since our inception and will never change. To think that we as an association here in Oregon are going to unite the profession and achieve financial/third-party parity with the medical profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be undermined by individuals who engage in "unscientific" and unproven diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the intern at WSCC who used to place the patient prone on the table then extract a crystal on a string from his pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and adjust them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If full parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be alive to see it. Of course, if we're not interested in third party pay, then unbridled diversity is acceptable and will be financed by a gullible segment of the population who have made charlatanism a profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that the person doing the diagnosing probably has a "cure" to sell, and the "cure" often determines the diagnosis. For those who practice any of the "X"FT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but the ultimate goal is to "clear" the patient of all interference so that "innate" (or whatever you wish to label it) can fully express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about themselves and your tratment. However, this best of intentions is soon undermined by your receptionist's effort to collect money from them, or, when they get home, their husband's tirade over what your "miracle" treatment is costing "him." Maybe we should just put a collection box in our reception areas and let people donate whatever they feel is appropriate for the care they are getting. I think some DE docs tried this a few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. It would, however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even take it one step farther and be totally altruistic, treating everyone for free, just like Jesus and doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win the lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropractic care for everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if what I have to offer people is truly a priceless gift from the gods, then who am I to put a bounty on it? That only trivializes and carnalizes it. Finally, I would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that Medicare and third-party payors will accept, but certainly one we can all rally around as a profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only task now is to decide who gets to determine which techniques effectively achieve that objective. Constantly Evolv-ing, Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com Evolving Doctors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 : What might resolve this issue is to create an entirely separate degree program for those who practice anything not taught in chiropractic colleges. One could attain the degree of say D.E.M. (Doctor of Energy Medicine or Doctor of Eclectic Medicine). This would allow the metaphysical practitioners to come out of the closet and practice openly without casting a shadow on mainstream chiropractic. This would also help to eliminate the current confusion consumers have about what is truly chiropractic and what would be better classified as metaphysics. I don't think there would be any difficulty attracting students to such a program. In fact, it might actually outpace chiropractic. The real benefit is that it would legitimize those who currently practice energy medicine without a license and allow for billing under the appropriate category instead of under the guise of "chiropractic." Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com Evolving Doctors On 2/9/2011 5:10 PM, Sears wrote: Dr. McGill, I can appreciate your passion for what we have all been trained to do, but beg to differ about your view of the profession as too diverse to enjoy an even health care playing field. Chiropractic's strength is in our unique history of drawing on Nature's mysteries with the eye of the scientist. Our common creative free-will continues to reveal connections, relationships, patterns, perceptions, practices and so on uniquely. Nonetheless, we are united by the scientific process of our training. It is specifically our Nature-based orientation to health that is our real potency, as unique individuals apply the scientific process. Les suggested correctly that it is the quality of the interface with the individual that allows our scientific eyes to share evidence collectively. It's anachronistic to consider humanity uniformly mechanical enough to respond to anonymous taps on the body for corrections. By combining a positive visualization with the tapping, the science of Herbert Benson's relaxation response (intentional visualization) initiates parasympathetica and it's attendant benefits. When we are able to bring science forward from our individual investigations of life, the profession advances science. With Nature as chiropractic's field of reference, we've drawn practitioners as diverse as Nature itself. Chiropractic is stronger for it; and we all stronger because of chiropractic. Let's look toward what is best for our patients (and ourselves), rather than what is required to qualify for third-party pay. The obstacle that could hinder us is failing to respect our different ways of investigating life and providing compassionate care. We don't have to understand or appreciate what others may be doing, but we can respect our mutual training and Nature-based orientation. By trusting in our capacity as trained scientists, we achieve a unity even within our diversity, and Nature is our best example of diversity working in seamless beauty and grace. Thanks for your thoughtful post. Sears, DC, IAYT 1218 NW 21st Ave Portland, Oregon 97209 v: 503-225-0255 f: 503-525-6902 www.docbones.com On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: Docs: WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if you don't have the time to devote to it, get back to work and do whatever it is you do to justify taking people's money. :-) My purpose for the post on EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point in a previous post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, admittedly, to weed out who I would comfortably refer to around the state, since on more than one occasion I have had a patient call me up after a referral asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred them to was a little too "weird." While we're not the only profession with a spattering of "weirdos" (and I realize that the diagnosis of "weirdo" is predicated on the biases of the diagnostician), we do have enough practitioners utilizing, shall I say, "unconventional" methods of diagnosis and treatment to hinder our "acceptance" into "mainstream" healthcare. This has been the case since our inception and will never change. To think that we as an association here in Oregon are going to unite the profession and achieve financial/third-party parity with the medical profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be undermined by individuals who engage in "unscientific" and unproven diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the intern at WSCC who used to place the patient prone on the table then extract a crystal on a string from his pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and adjust them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If full parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be alive to see it. Of course, if we're not interested in third party pay, then unbridled diversity is acceptable and will be financed by a gullible segment of the population who have made charlatanism a profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that the person doing the diagnosing probably has a "cure" to sell, and the "cure" often determines the diagnosis. For those who practice any of the "X"FT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but the ultimate goal is to "clear" the patient of all interference so that "innate" (or whatever you wish to label it) can fully express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about themselves and your tratment. However, this best of intentions is soon undermined by your receptionist's effort to collect money from them, or, when they get home, their husband's tirade over what your "miracle" treatment is costing "him." Maybe we should just put a collection box in our reception areas and let people donate whatever they feel is appropriate for the care they are getting. I think some DE docs tried this a few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. It would, however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even take it one step farther and be totally altruistic, treating everyone for free, just like Jesus and doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win the lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropractic care for everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if what I have to offer people is truly a priceless gift from the gods, then who am I to put a bounty on it? That only trivializes and carnalizes it. Finally, I would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that Medicare and third-party payors will accept, but certainly one we can all rally around as a profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only task now is to decide who gets to determine which techniques effectively achieve that objective. Constantly Evolv-ing, Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com Evolving Doctors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Dear Lyndon, Is it not possible for a skilled " Gonstead " doctor to, when adjusting, enter an internal state of peace and unconditional love, and thus allow for a more profound adjustment? (Anyone familiar with Lou Corleto, DC?) If so, does that deem him an " energy medicine " fanatic, incapable of sharing the title " Doctor of Chiropractic " ? Does it also preclude him from being responsible to the patient, neglecting to use outcome based measurements (both objective and subjective), and being accountable to his patients AND the good name of the profession - simply because he is conscious of his 'energy' while using a technique we are all (hopefully) familiar with? Conversely, if one attempts to break down every minute detail of the science, art, and philosophy of the chiropractic adjustment, you end up focussing on a body, but leaving out the soul. I would suggest, though, that we didn't become chiropractors to adjust corpses... Therefore we are left with the challenge of creating a balance between enough study/research/wellness outcome assessments, yet not getting lost in minutia so that we miss the boat, so to speak, in headiness... I would like to see for our profession unity, which (agreeing with ) means strength in our diversity, yet uniting from our knowledge and study of the science, art, and philosophy of natural healing, through enhancing the power and connection with our innate wisdom. The vehicle of choice (technique) is going to look different, of course. That brings its challenges in pt. education for the dr., but overall I think it's still good to be somewhat diverse in our specialties. If we all drove blue Tauruses, lived in blue houses, rode blue bicycles, the world would be very...blue. (Bring on the rainbows, I say! One last thought... There is something that Donny Epstein teaches called the Triad of Change. It involves an awareness of the relationship between Structure, Behavior, and Perception. At different times, we are called to make changes in one or more of these areas, to create a more favorable outcome for an area in our life that must change. One could, as an experiment, keep their " structure " - i.e. 'technique', but change their " behavior " (or state of being WHILE applying their technique), and observe if that changes the Perception of the patient (or for that matter, the doctor as well). There would have to be a sincere willingness to allow for a different and unexpected outcome. For instance, many docs would be startled if their patient started crying during or after an adjustment. However, someone familiar with emotional or energetic release would likely realize that crying (or laughing) are just forms of release. And the relaxation and peace following such as that can be astounding... -Dawn p.s. Oh, and Lyndon - I don't know if you're aware, but even more than 5 years ago techniques which could be termed 'energetic' and perhaps even 'metaphysical' were and ARE being taught in Chiropractic Colleges as both required and elected classes. Life Chiropractic College has repeatedly offered introductory courses in Network Spinal Analysis (for example), and while at LCCW, I took B.E.S.T. (Bio Energetic Synchronization Technique) - which I thought was even more esoteric/odd (no offense anyone - it works great too than NSA! I realize many Docs in Oregon attended Western States, but from my understanding, WSCC actual technique offerings/study are not as diverse as many other accredited schools across the nation. _________________________________ Dr. Dawn Sea Kahrs, DC Graceful Waves Chiropractic P.O. Box 53 Wheeler, OR 97147 Phone: (503) 374-9504 E-mail: dawnseakahrs@... " Be the change you wish to see in the world. " -Mahatma Gandhi " Healing is the revealing of one's inherent wholeness. Its midwife and child is contribution in humanity. " -Dawn Sea Kahrs, DC On Feb 9, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: > : > > What might resolve this issue is to create an entirely separate > degree program for those who practice anything not taught in > chiropractic colleges. One could attain the degree of say D.E.M. > (Doctor of Energy Medicine or Doctor of Eclectic Medicine). This > would allow the metaphysical practitioners to come out of the closet > and practice openly without casting a shadow on mainstream > chiropractic. This would also help to eliminate the current confusion > consumers have about what is truly chiropractic and what would be > better classified as metaphysics. I don't think there would be any > difficulty attracting students to such a program. In fact, it might > actually outpace chiropractic. The real benefit is that it would > legitimize those who currently practice energy medicine without a > license and allow for billing under the appropriate category instead > of under the guise of " chiropractic. " > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > Evolving Doctors > > > > > On 2/9/2011 5:10 PM, Sears wrote: >> >> Dr. McGill, >> >> I can appreciate your passion for what we have all been trained to >> do, but beg to differ about your view of the profession as too >> diverse to enjoy an even health care playing field. Chiropractic's >> strength is in our unique history of drawing on Nature's mysteries >> with the eye of the scientist. Our common creative free-will >> continues to reveal connections, relationships, patterns, >> perceptions, practices and so on uniquely. Nonetheless, we are >> united by the scientific process of our training. It is specifically >> our Nature-based orientation to health that is our real potency, as >> unique individuals apply the scientific process. >> >> Les suggested correctly that it is the quality of the interface with >> the individual that allows our scientific eyes to share evidence >> collectively. It's anachronistic to consider humanity uniformly >> mechanical enough to respond to anonymous taps on the body for >> corrections. By combining a positive visualization with the tapping, >> the science of Herbert Benson's relaxation response (intentional >> visualization) initiates parasympathetica and it's attendant >> benefits. When we are able to bring science forward from our >> individual investigations of life, the profession advances science. >> With Nature as chiropractic's field of reference, we've drawn >> practitioners as diverse as Nature itself. Chiropractic is stronger >> for it; and we all stronger because of chiropractic. Let's look >> toward what is best for our patients (and ourselves), rather than >> what is required to qualify for third-party pay. >> >> The obstacle that could hinder us is failing to respect our >> different ways of investigating life and providing compassionate >> care. We don't have to understand or appreciate what others may be >> doing, but we can respect our mutual training and Nature-based >> orientation. By trusting in our capacity as trained scientists, we >> achieve a unity even within our diversity, and Nature is our best >> example of diversity working in seamless beauty and grace. >> >> Thanks for your thoughtful post. >> >> Sears, DC, IAYT >> 1218 NW 21st Ave >> Portland, Oregon 97209 >> v: 503-225-0255 >> f: 503-525-6902 >> www.docbones.com >> >> On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Docs: >>> >>> WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if you don't have the >>> time to devote to it, get back to work and do whatever it is you do >>> to justify taking people's money. :-) >>> >>> My purpose for the post on EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point >>> in a previous post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is >>> defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, admittedly, to >>> weed out who I would comfortably refer to around the state, since on >>> more than one occasion I have had a patient call me up after a >>> referral asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred >>> them to was a little too " weird. " >>> >>> While we're not the only profession with a spattering of " weirdos " >>> (and I realize that the diagnosis of " weirdo " is predicated on the >>> biases of the diagnostician), we do have enough practitioners >>> utilizing, shall I say, " unconventional " methods of diagnosis and >>> treatment to hinder our " acceptance " into " mainstream " healthcare. >>> This has been the case since our inception and will never change. >>> To think that we as an association here in Oregon are going to >>> unite the profession and achieve financial/third-party parity with >>> the medical profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be >>> achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be undermined by >>> individuals who engage in " unscientific " and unproven >>> diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the intern at WSCC who used to >>> place the patient prone on the table then extract a crystal on a >>> string from his pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and >>> adjust them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If full >>> parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be alive to see it. >>> >>> Of course, if we're not interested in third party pay, then >>> unbridled diversity is acceptable and will be financed by a >>> gullible segment of the population who have made charlatanism a >>> profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that the person >>> doing the diagnosing probably has a " cure " to sell, and the " cure " >>> often determines the diagnosis. >>> >>> For those who practice any of the " X " FT's, correct me if I'm >>> wrong, but the ultimate goal is to " clear " the patient of all >>> interference so that " innate " (or whatever you wish to label it) can >>> fully express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about >>> themselves and your tratment. However, this best of intentions is >>> soon undermined by your receptionist's effort to collect money from >>> them, or, when they get home, their husband's tirade over what your >>> " miracle " treatment is costing " him. " Maybe we should just put a >>> collection box in our reception areas and let people donate whatever >>> they feel is appropriate for the care they are getting. I think some >>> DE docs tried this a few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. >>> It would, however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees >>> might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even take it one >>> step farther and be totally altruistic, treating everyone for free, >>> just like Jesus and doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win >>> the lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropractic care for >>> everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if what I have to offer >>> people is truly a priceless gift from the gods, then who am I to put >>> a bounty on it? That only trivializes and carnalizes it. >>> >>> Finally, I would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that >>> I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that Medicare and >>> third-party payors will accept, but certainly one we can all rally >>> around as a profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN >>> WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only task now is >>> to decide who gets to determine which techniques effectively >>> achieve that objective. >>> >>> Constantly Evolv-ing, >>> >>> Lyndon McGill, D.C. >>> Salem, Oregon >>> www.SalemSpineClinic.com >>> Evolving Doctors >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Having read Lyndon's recent writings about forming an energy medicine degree instead of a chiropractic degree reminds me of a quote I stated on this board about 2 weeks ago. It was a quote from either B. J. Or D. D. (I think B.J.) That is the real purpose of Chiropractic is to unite man the physical with man the spiritual. Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T Re: EFT / State of Being... Dear Lyndon, Is it not possible for a skilled " Gonstead " doctor to, when adjusting, enter an internal state of peace and unconditional love, and thus allow for a more profound adjustment? (Anyone familiar with Lou Corleto, DC?) If so, does that deem him an " energy medicine " fanatic, incapable of sharing the title " Doctor of Chiropractic " ? Does it also preclude him from being responsible to the patient, neglecting to use outcome based measurements (both objective and subjective), and being accountable to his patients AND the good name of the profession - simply because he is conscious of his 'energy' while using a technique we are all (hopefully) familiar with? Conversely, if one attempts to break down every minute detail of the science, art, and philosophy of the chiropractic adjustment, you end up focussing on a body, but leaving out the soul. I would suggest, though, that we didn't become chiropractors to adjust corpses... Therefore we are left with the challenge of creating a balance between enough study/research/wellness outcome assessments, yet not getting lost in minutia so that we miss the boat, so to speak, in headiness... I would like to see for our profession unity, which (agreeing with ) means strength in our diversity, yet uniting from our knowledge and study of the science, art, and philosophy of natural healing, through enhancing the power and connection with our innate wisdom. The vehicle of choice (technique) is going to look different, of course. That brings its challenges in pt. education for the dr., but overall I think it's still good to be somewhat diverse in our specialties. If we all drove blue Tauruses, lived in blue houses, rode blue bicycles, the world would be very...blue. (Bring on the rainbows, I say! One last thought... There is something that Donny Epstein teaches called the Triad of Change. It involves an awareness of the relationship between Structure, Behavior, and Perception. At different times, we are called to make changes in one or more of these areas, to create a more favorable outcome for an area in our life that must change. One could, as an experiment, keep their " structure " - i.e. 'technique', but change their " behavior " (or state of being WHILE applying their technique), and observe if that changes the Perception of the patient (or for that matter, the doctor as well). There would have to be a sincere willingness to allow for a different and unexpected outcome. For instance, many docs would be startled if their patient started crying during or after an adjustment. However, someone familiar with emotional or energetic release would likely realize that crying (or laughing) are just forms of release. And the relaxation and peace following such as that can be astounding... -Dawn p.s. Oh, and Lyndon - I don't know if you're aware, but even more than 5 years ago techniques which could be termed 'energetic' and perhaps even 'metaphysical' were and ARE being taught in Chiropractic Colleges as both required and elected classes. Life Chiropractic College has repeatedly offered introductory courses in Network Spinal Analysis (for example), and while at LCCW, I took B.E.S.T. (Bio Energetic Synchronization Technique) - which I thought was even more esoteric/odd (no offense anyone - it works great too than NSA! I realize many Docs in Oregon attended Western States, but from my understanding, WSCC actual technique offerings/study are not as diverse as many other accredited schools across the nation. _________________________________ Dr. Dawn Sea Kahrs, DC Graceful Waves Chiropractic P.O. Box 53 Wheeler, OR 97147 Phone: (503) 374-9504 E-mail: dawnseakahrs@... " Be the change you wish to see in the world. " -Mahatma Gandhi " Healing is the revealing of one's inherent wholeness. Its midwife and child is contribution in humanity. " -Dawn Sea Kahrs, DC On Feb 9, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: > : > > What might resolve this issue is to create an entirely separate > degree program for those who practice anything not taught in > chiropractic colleges. One could attain the degree of say D.E.M. > (Doctor of Energy Medicine or Doctor of Eclectic Medicine). This > would allow the metaphysical practitioners to come out of the closet > and practice openly without casting a shadow on mainstream > chiropractic. This would also help to eliminate the current confusion > consumers have about what is truly chiropractic and what would be > better classified as metaphysics. I don't think there would be any > difficulty attracting students to such a program. In fact, it might > actually outpace chiropractic. The real benefit is that it would > legitimize those who currently practice energy medicine without a > license and allow for billing under the appropriate category instead > of under the guise of " chiropractic. " > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > Evolving Doctors > > > > > On 2/9/2011 5:10 PM, Sears wrote: >> >> Dr. McGill, >> >> I can appreciate your passion for what we have all been trained to >> do, but beg to differ about your view of the profession as too >> diverse to enjoy an even health care playing field. Chiropractic's >> strength is in our unique history of drawing on Nature's mysteries >> with the eye of the scientist. Our common creative free-will >> continues to reveal connections, relationships, patterns, >> perceptions, practices and so on uniquely. Nonetheless, we are >> united by the scientific process of our training. It is specifically >> our Nature-based orientation to health that is our real potency, as >> unique individuals apply the scientific process. >> >> Les suggested correctly that it is the quality of the interface with >> the individual that allows our scientific eyes to share evidence >> collectively. It's anachronistic to consider humanity uniformly >> mechanical enough to respond to anonymous taps on the body for >> corrections. By combining a positive visualization with the tapping, >> the science of Herbert Benson's relaxation response (intentional >> visualization) initiates parasympathetica and it's attendant >> benefits. When we are able to bring science forward from our >> individual investigations of life, the profession advances science. >> With Nature as chiropractic's field of reference, we've drawn >> practitioners as diverse as Nature itself. Chiropractic is stronger >> for it; and we all stronger because of chiropractic. Let's look >> toward what is best for our patients (and ourselves), rather than >> what is required to qualify for third-party pay. >> >> The obstacle that could hinder us is failing to respect our >> different ways of investigating life and providing compassionate >> care. We don't have to understand or appreciate what others may be >> doing, but we can respect our mutual training and Nature-based >> orientation. By trusting in our capacity as trained scientists, we >> achieve a unity even within our diversity, and Nature is our best >> example of diversity working in seamless beauty and grace. >> >> Thanks for your thoughtful post. >> >> Sears, DC, IAYT >> 1218 NW 21st Ave >> Portland, Oregon 97209 >> v: 503-225-0255 >> f: 503-525-6902 >> www.docbones.com >> >> On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Docs: >>> >>> WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if you don't have the >>> time to devote to it, get back to work and do whatever it is you do >>> to justify taking people's money. :-) >>> >>> My purpose for the post on EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point >>> in a previous post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is >>> defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, admittedly, to >>> weed out who I would comfortably refer to around the state, since on >>> more than one occasion I have had a patient call me up after a >>> referral asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred >>> them to was a little too " weird. " >>> >>> While we're not the only profession with a spattering of " weirdos " >>> (and I realize that the diagnosis of " weirdo " is predicated on the >>> biases of the diagnostician), we do have enough practitioners >>> utilizing, shall I say, " unconventional " methods of diagnosis and >>> treatment to hinder our " acceptance " into " mainstream " healthcare. >>> This has been the case since our inception and will never change. >>> To think that we as an association here in Oregon are going to >>> unite the profession and achieve financial/third-party parity with >>> the medical profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be >>> achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be undermined by >>> individuals who engage in " unscientific " and unproven >>> diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the intern at WSCC who used to >>> place the patient prone on the table then extract a crystal on a >>> string from his pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and >>> adjust them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If full >>> parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be alive to see it. >>> >>> Of course, if we're not interested in third party pay, then >>> unbridled diversity is acceptable and will be financed by a >>> gullible segment of the population who have made charlatanism a >>> profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that the person >>> doing the diagnosing probably has a " cure " to sell, and the " cure " >>> often determines the diagnosis. >>> >>> For those who practice any of the " X " FT's, correct me if I'm >>> wrong, but the ultimate goal is to " clear " the patient of all >>> interference so that " innate " (or whatever you wish to label it) can >>> fully express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about >>> themselves and your tratment. However, this best of intentions is >>> soon undermined by your receptionist's effort to collect money from >>> them, or, when they get home, their husband's tirade over what your >>> " miracle " treatment is costing " him. " Maybe we should just put a >>> collection box in our reception areas and let people donate whatever >>> they feel is appropriate for the care they are getting. I think some >>> DE docs tried this a few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. >>> It would, however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees >>> might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even take it one >>> step farther and be totally altruistic, treating everyone for free, >>> just like Jesus and doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win >>> the lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropractic care for >>> everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if what I have to offer >>> people is truly a priceless gift from the gods, then who am I to put >>> a bounty on it? That only trivializes and carnalizes it. >>> >>> Finally, I would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that >>> I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that Medicare and >>> third-party payors will accept, but certainly one we can all rally >>> around as a profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN >>> WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only task now is >>> to decide who gets to determine which techniques effectively >>> achieve that objective. >>> >>> Constantly Evolv-ing, >>> >>> Lyndon McGill, D.C. >>> Salem, Oregon >>> www.SalemSpineClinic.com >>> Evolving Doctors >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Dawn: I just think we're compromising our credibility with the public and other healthcare professionals when we allow these metaphysical therapies to be practiced under the chiropractic umbrella and to be billed as such. Imagine being a juror on a PI case when the defense attorney asks the patient to describe their chiropractic treatment and the doctor primarily used a metaphysical technique. Very few jurors would award payment for the plaintiff's care or future care after hearing it described as an attempt to unite man the physical with man the spiritual. They will be thinking: " Chiropractors sure are a bunch of quacks! " Once a particular therapy has been scientifically proven to be eficatious, then we can allow it into the chiropractic fold. Now that chiropractic has been validated, we have the right to demand that anything practiced under its banner must also be validated. Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com > Having read Lyndon's recent writings about forming an > energy medicine degree instead of a chiropractic degree > reminds me of a quote I stated on this board about 2 weeks > ago. It was a > quote from either B. J. Or D. D. (I think B.J.) That is > the real purpose of Chiropractic is to unite man the > physical with man the spiritual. Sent via BlackBerry by > AT & T Re: > EFT / State of Being...Dear Lyndon,Is it not possible for > a skilled " Gonstead " doctor to, when adjusting, enter an > internal state of peace and unconditional love, and thus > allow for a more profound adjustment? (Anyone familiar > with Lou Corleto, DC?) If so, does that deem him an > " energy medicine " fanatic, incapable of sharing the title > " Doctor of Chiropractic " ? Does it also preclude him from > being responsible to the patient, neglecting to use > outcome based measurements (both objective and subjective) > , and being accountable to his patients AND the good name > of the profession - simply because he is conscious of his > 'energy' while using a technique we are all (hopefully) > familiar with?Conversely, if one attempts to break down > every minute detail of the science, art, and philosophy of > the chiropractic adjustment, you end up focussing on a > body, but leaving out the soul. I would suggest, though, > that we didn't become chiropractors to adjust > corpses...Therefore we are left with the challenge of > creating a balance between enough study/research/wellness > outcome assessments, yet not getting lost in minutia so > that we miss the boat, so to speak, in headiness...I would > like to see for our profession unity, which (agreeing with > ) means strength in our diversity, yet uniting from > our knowledge and study of the science, art, and > philosophy of natural healing, through enhancing the power > and connectio n with our innate wisdom. The vehicle of > choice (technique) is going to look different, of course. > That brings its challenges in pt. education for the dr., > but overall I think it's still good to be somewhat diverse > in our specialties. If we all drove blue Tauruses, lived > in blue houses, rode blue bicycles, the world would be > very...blue. (Bring on the rainbows, I say! :)One last > thought...There is something that Donny Epstein teaches > called the Triad of Change. It involves an awareness of > the relationship between Structure, Behavior, and > Perception. At different times, we are called to make > changes in one or more of these areas, to create a more > favorable outcome for an area in our life that must > change. One could, as an experiment, keep their > " structure " - i.e. 'technique', but change their > " behavior " (or state of being WHILE applying their > technique), and observe if that changes the Perception of > the patient (or for that matter, the doctor as well). > There would have to be a sincere willingness to > allow for a different and unexpected outcome. For > instance, many docs would be startled if their patient > started crying during or after an adjustment. However, > someone familiar with emotional or energetic release would > likely realize that crying (or laughing) are just forms of > release. And the relaxation and peace following such as > that can be astounding...-Dawnp.s. Oh, and Lyndon - I > don't know if you're aware, but even more than 5 years ago > techniques which could be termed 'energetic' and perhaps > even 'metaphysical' were and ARE being taught in > Chiropractic Colleges as both required and elected > classes. Life Chiropractic College has repeatedly offered > introductory courses in Network Spinal Analysis (for > example), and while at LCCW, I took B.E.S.T. (Bio > Energetic Synchronization Technique) - which I thought was > even more esoteric/odd (no offense anyone - it works great > too than NSA! I realize many Docs in Oregon attended > Western States, but from my understanding, WSCC actual > technique offerings/ study are not as diverse as many > other accredited schools across the > nation._________________________________Dr. Dawn Sea Kahrs > , DCGraceful Waves ChiropracticP.O. Box 53Wheeler, OR > 97147Phone: (503) 374-9504E-mail: > dawnseakahrs@... " Be the change you wish to see in > the world. " -Mahatma Gandhi " Healing is the revealing of > one's inherent wholeness. Its midwife and child is > contribution in humanity. " -Dawn Sea Kahrs, DCOn Feb 9, > 2011, at 6:41 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:> :>> What > might resolve this issue is to create an entirely separate > > degree program for those who practice anything not > taught in > chiropractic colleges. One could attain the > degree of say D.E.M. > (Doctor of Energy Medicine or > Doctor of Eclectic Medicine). This > would allow the > metaphysical practitioners to come out of the closet > and > practice openly without casting a shadow on mainstream > > chiropractic. This would also help to eliminate the > current confusion > consumers have about what is truly > chiropractic and what would be > better classified as > metaphysics. I don't think there would be any > > difficulty attracting students to such a program. In fact, > it might > actually outpace chiropractic. The real benefit > is that it would > legitimize those who currently practice > energy medicine without a > license and allow for billing > under the appropriate category instead > of under the > guise of " chiropractic. " >> Lyndon McGill, D.C.> Salem, > Oregon> www.SalemSpineClinic.com> Evolving Doctors>>>>> > On 2/9/2011 5:10 PM, Sears wrote: >>>> Dr. McGill > ,>>>> I can appreciate your passion for what we have all > been trained to >> do, but beg to differ about your view > of the profession as too >> diverse to enjoy an even > health care playing field. Chiropractic's >> strength is > in our unique history of drawing on Nature's mysteries >> > with the eye of the scientist. Our common creative > free-will >> continues to reveal connections, > relationships, patterns, >> perceptions, practices and so > on uniquely. Nonetheless, we are >> united b y the > scientific process of our training. It is specifically >> > our Nature-based orientation to health that is our real > potency, as >> unique individuals apply the scientific > process.>>>> Les suggested correctly that it is the > quality of the interface with >> the individual that > allows our scientific eyes to share evidence >> > collectively. It's anachronistic to consider humanity > uniformly >> mechanical enough to respond to anonymous > taps on the body for >> corrections. By combining a > positive visualization with the tapping, >> the science > of Herbert Benson's relaxation response (intentional >> > visualization) initiates parasympathetica and it's > attendant >> benefits. When we are able to bring science > forward from our >> individual investigations of life, > the profession advances science. >> With Nature as > chiropractic's field of reference, we've drawn >> > practitioners as diverse as Nature itself. Chiropractic > is stronger >> for it; and we all stronger because of > chiropractic. Let's look >> toward wh at is best for our > patients (and ourselves), rather than >> what is required > to qualify for third-party pay. >>>> The obstacle that > could hinder us is failing to respect our >> different > ways of investigating life and providing compassionate >> > care. We don't have to understand or appreciate what > others may be >> doing, but we can respect our mutual > training and Nature-based >> orientation. By trusting in > our capacity as trained scientists, we >> achieve a unity > even within our diversity, and Nature is our best >> > example of diversity working in seamless beauty and grace. > >>>> Thanks for your thoughtful post.>>>> Sears, > DC, IAYT>> 1218 NW 21st Ave>> Portland, Oregon 97209>> v: > 503-225-0255>> f: 503-525-6902>> www.docbones.com>>>> On > Feb 9, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:>>>>> >>>>>> > Docs:>>>>>> WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if > you don't have the >>> time to devote to it, get back to > work and do whatever it is you do >>> to justify taking > people's money. :-)>>>>>> My p urpose for the post on > EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point >>> in a previous > post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is >>> > defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, > admittedly, to >>> weed out who I would comfortably refer > to around the state, since on >>> more than one occasion > I have had a patient call me up after a >>> referral > asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred > >>> them to was a little too " weird. " >>>>>> While we're > not the only profession with a spattering of " weirdos " >>> > (and I realize that the diagnosis of " weirdo " is > predicated on the >>> biases of the diagnostician), we do > have enough practitioners >>> utilizing, shall I say, > " unconventional " methods of diagnosis and >>> treatment to > hinder our " acceptance " into " mainstream " healthcare. >>> > This has been the case since our inception and will never > change. >>> To think that we as an association here in > Oregon are going to >>> unite the profession and achieve > financial/third-party parity with >>> the medical > profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be >>> > achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be > undermined by >>> individuals who engage in " unscientific " > and unproven >>> diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the > intern at WSCC who used to >>> place the patient prone on > the table then extract a crystal on a >>> string from his > pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and >>> adjust > them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If > full >>> parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be > alive to see it.>>>>>> Of course, if we're not interested > in third party pay, then >>> unbridled diversity is > acceptable and will be financed by a >>> gullible segment > of the population who have made charlatanism a >>> > profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that > the person >>> doing the diagnosing probably has a " cure " > to sell, and the " cure " >>> often determines the > diagnosis.>>>>>> For those who practice any of the > " X " FT's, correct me if I'm >>> wrong, but the ultimate > goal > is to " clear " the patient of all >>> interference so that > " innate " (or whatever you wish to label it) can >>> fully > express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about > >>> themselves and your tratment. However, this best of > intentions is >>> soon undermined by your receptionist's > effort to collect money from >>> them, or, when they get > home, their husband's tirade over what your >>> " miracle " > treatment is costing " him. " Maybe we should just put a > >>> collection box in our reception areas and let people > donate whatever >>> they feel is appropriate for the care > they are getting. I think some >>> DE docs tried this a > few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. >>> It would > , however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees > >>> might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even > take it one >>> step farther and be totally altruistic, > treating everyone for free, >>> just like Jesus and > doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win >>> the > lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropract ic > care for >>> everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if > what I have to offer >>> people is truly a priceless gift > from the gods, then who am I to put >>> a bounty on it? > That only trivializes and carnalizes it.>>>>>> Finally, I > would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that > >>> I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that > Medicare and >>> third-party payors will accept, but > certainly one we can all rally >>> around as a > profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN >>> > WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only > task now is >>> to decide who gets to determine which > techniques effectively >>> achieve that objective.>>>>>> > Constantly Evolv-ing,>>>>>> Lyndon McGill, D.C.>>> Salem > , Oregon>>> www.SalemSpineClinic.com>>> Evolving > Doctors>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Totally agree with you. Indeed chiropractic has it's roots in that in which could not be proven yet was effective, but just as anything we must evolve for the sustainability of our profession. I've long said that these obscure and precarious and sometimes spiritual techniques and practices should not be considered chiropractic, but an adjunctive therapy used by not only chiropractors but those of many different professions. If those in the same profession do not understand what others in the same profession are doing, it is likely that what is being done has very little to do with the specific profession itself. ph Medlin D.C. From: Lyndon McGill Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:41 PM Subject: Re: EFT / State of Being... :What might resolve this issue is to create an entirely separate degree program for those who practice anything not taught in chiropractic colleges. One could attain the degree of say D.E.M. (Doctor of Energy Medicine or Doctor of Eclectic Medicine). This would allow the metaphysical practitioners to come out of the closet and practice openly without casting a shadow on mainstream chiropractic. This would also help to eliminate the current confusion consumers have about what is truly chiropractic and what would be better classified as metaphysics. I don't think there would be any difficulty attracting students to such a program. In fact, it might actually outpace chiropractic. The real benefit is that it would legitimize those who currently practice energy medicine without a license and allow for billing under the appropriate category instead of under the guise of "chiropractic."Lyndon McGill, D.C.Salem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comEvolving DoctorsOn 2/9/2011 5:10 PM, Sears wrote: Dr. McGill, I can appreciate your passion for what we have all been trained to do, but beg to differ about your view of the profession as too diverse to enjoy an even health care playing field. Chiropractic's strength is in our unique history of drawing on Nature's mysteries with the eye of the scientist. Our common creative free-will continues to reveal connections, relationships, patterns, perceptions, practices and so on uniquely. Nonetheless, we are united by the scientific process of our training. It is specifically our Nature-based orientation to health that is our real potency, as unique individuals apply the scientific process. Les suggested correctly that it is the quality of the interface with the individual that allows our scientific eyes to share evidence collectively. It's anachronistic to consider humanity uniformly mechanical enough to respond to anonymous taps on the body for corrections. By combining a positive visualization with the tapping, the science of Herbert Benson's relaxation response (intentional visualization) initiates parasympathetica and it's attendant benefits. When we are able to bring science forward from our individual investigations of life, the profession advances science. With Nature as chiropractic's field of reference, we've drawn practitioners as diverse as Nature itself. Chiropractic is stronger for it; and we all stronger because of chiropractic. Let's look toward what is best for our patients (and ourselves), rather than what is required to qualify for third-party pay. The obstacle that could hinder us is failing to respect our different ways of investigating life and providing compassionate care. We don't have to understand or appreciate what others may be doing, but we can respect our mutual training and Nature-based orientation. By trusting in our capacity as trained scientists, we achieve a unity even within our diversity, and Nature is our best example of diversity working in seamless beauty and grace. Thanks for your thoughtful post. Sears, DC, IAYT 1218 NW 21st Ave Portland, Oregon 97209 v: 503-225-0255 f: 503-525-6902 www.docbones.com On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: Docs:WARNING: This post is rather lengthy, so if you don't have the time to devote to it, get back to work and do whatever it is you do to justify taking people's money. :-) My purpose for the post on EFT was twofold: to reinforce my point in a previous post that our biggest obstacle as a profession is defining who we are and what we do; and, secondly, admittedly, to weed out who I would comfortably refer to around the state, since on more than one occasion I have had a patient call me up after a referral asking for an alternate, stating that the one I referred them to was a little too "weird."While we're not the only profession with a spattering of "weirdos" (and I realize that the diagnosis of "weirdo" is predicated on the biases of the diagnostician), we do have enough practitioners utilizing, shall I say, "unconventional" methods of diagnosis and treatment to hinder our "acceptance" into "mainstream" healthcare. This has been the case since our inception and will never change. To think that we as an association here in Oregon are going to unite the profession and achieve financial/third-party parity with the medical profession is a pipe dream. Some inroads may be achieved; however, full acceptance is destined to be undermined by individuals who engage in "unscientific" and unproven diagnostic/treatment methods, such as the intern at WSCC who used to place the patient prone on the table then extract a crystal on a string from his pocket, suspend it over the patient's spine and adjust them according to the pendulum swing of the crystal. If full parity ever does occur, I don't think we'll be alive to see it.Of course, if we're not interested in third party pay, then unbridled diversity is acceptable and will be financed by a gullible segment of the population who have made charlatanism a profitable venture for centuries. Just keep in mind that the person doing the diagnosing probably has a "cure" to sell, and the "cure" often determines the diagnosis. For those who practice any of the "X"FT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but the ultimate goal is to "clear" the patient of all interference so that "innate" (or whatever you wish to label it) can fully express itself and the patient leaves feeling good about themselves and your tratment. However, this best of intentions is soon undermined by your receptionist's effort to collect money from them, or, when they get home, their husband's tirade over what your "miracle" treatment is costing "him." Maybe we should just put a collection box in our reception areas and let people donate whatever they feel is appropriate for the care they are getting. I think some DE docs tried this a few years ago but it didn't seem to catch on. It would, however, help to mitigate any negative effect your fees might have on your treatment outcomes. We could even take it one step farther and be totally altruistic, treating everyone for free, just like Jesus and doctors on mission trips have done. Should I win the lottery, that's what I intend to do. Free chiropractic care for everyone---even illegal aliens! Besides, if what I have to offer people is truly a priceless gift from the gods, then who am I to put a bounty on it? That only trivializes and carnalizes it.Finally, I would like to propose a definition of chiropractic that I think we can all live with. Certainly not one that Medicare and third-party payors will accept, but certainly one we can all rally around as a profession: CHIROPRACTIC IS ANYTHING THAT UNITES MAN WITH THE DIVINE. That leaves room for everyone. Our only task now is to decide who gets to determine which techniques effectively achieve that objective.Constantly Evolv-ing,Lyndon McGill, D.C.Salem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comEvolving Doctors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Adam: Sorry for not responding to your post until now but I just discovered your message way down in my Inbox. Agreed, what is to be considered "mainstream" in chiropractic is always under debate and constantly evolving. However, I think most members of the profession would agree that the core of our current identity in the healthcare marketplace and in the eyes of the public is "manipulation of the spine---either by hand or instrument---to remove nerve interference so that the body can return to a healthy state." Not just manipulation to restore function, but also to restore health. I think we can agree that dry needling, homeopathy, nutrition, physiotherapy, etc., are adjunctive but not integral to our identity. I will also concede that some adjustive techniques widely used by the profession today need more evidence-based validation. However, most of them are still founded on the core premise of reducing nerve interference by treating the spine. To address your scenarios specifically, I would say that "The ones who adjust to remove the cause of dis-ease", "The ones who manipulate to remove the symptoms", and "The ones who incorporate evidence-based measures" would easily qualify as "mainstream" while the others would not. As mentioned on more than one occasion in my previous posts, if we want to tell the government and third-party payors to go to hell and just go "all cash," then we can practice "anything and everything" that the law allows. However, if a majority of the profession desires to be integrated into the established healthcare system and a segment of the profession is practicing non-evidence-based techniques that are inhibiting that integration, then, yes, they need to be "weeded out." Let them form a separate and distinct profession that embraces such techniques, and then they can wage their battle for full integration from that platform. That's why I suggested a DEM degree or something along those lines. Once a particular technique becomes evidence-based, then it can be considered for acceptance into "mainstream" chiropractic. This will also force the current technique peddlers to either perform the studies necessary to prove their validity or be excluded from third-party reimbursement. I truly believe that if we don't focus our identity and define what is truly chiropractic, we will never attain a position in the forthcoming healthcare system and patient access will be severely limited as a result. Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com Evolving Doctors On 2/11/2011 8:27 AM, AllD wrote: I'm curious Lyndon, according to you, who are the mainstream chiropractors who practice what is truly chiropractic? The ones who "dry needle" trigger points? The ones who want to replace family practice medicine? The ones who adjust to remove the cause of dis-ease? The ones who manipulate to remove the symptoms? The ones who incorporate evidence based measures? The ones who don't adjust/manipulate but use ultrasound & stim, rehab and soft tissue work ? What if all these groups wanted to weed out the others so their reputation wouldn't be tainted by those who practice under the guise of chiropractic? (or perhaps they already do) Adam Drapkin, DC : What might resolve this issue is to create an entirely separate degree program for those who practice anything not taught in chiropractic colleges. One could attain the degree of say D.E.M. (Doctor of Energy Medicine or Doctor of Eclectic Medicine). This would allow the metaphysical practitioners to come out of the closet and practice openly without casting a shadow on mainstream chiropractic. This would also help to eliminate the current confusion consumers have about what is truly chiropractic and what would be better classified as metaphysics. I don't think there would be any difficulty attracting students to such a program. In fact, it might actually outpace chiropractic. The real benefit is that it would legitimize those who currently practice energy medicine without a license and allow for billing under the appropriate category instead of under the guise of "chiropractic." Lyndon McGill, D.C. Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com Evolving Doctors <http://www.mcgillonline.com/Doctors> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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