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I changed to no more than 1 shot per visit..even though it meant adding

xtra visits. Never if not feeling well. Also if doing it again, I would

separate the MMR into 3 separate shots..It Is available that way. We

did not do Chicken pox...exposed them instead & used acyclavier (sp) to

keep away the itch. I got shingles 14 days after foster child was given

chicken pox shot!! We have not done the Hepatitis series...but Josh

will start his this summer.. . Hard call..... Joy

nmlinnen@... wrote:

> This may be too loaded of a question for people with enough problems

> already to deal with, but has anyone felt great reluctance to

> vaccinate their younger children knowing that the older children had

> what might be called predispositions to neuro/psychological

> disorders? I have not had my 2 yr old vaccinated since his 6 mo

> checkup. I just feel very reluctant about it, but at the same time

> feeling like I'm taking a risk not having him vaccinated. Maybe I'll

> just wait until he is older. I feel like I can't handle anymore

> psychological problems(with the two older girls 12 and 9,and the 4th

> child a 4 yo boy who has stuttering and lots of fears though he's a

> pretty happy kid). Right now the 2 yr old and the 7 yr old seem the

> most average or unaffected or whatever you could call it.

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where can i find out info regarding this? its a great topic to consider

being factored in, and i've never even considered it. what do you know about

it? thanks, amy

vaccinations

>This may be too loaded of a question for people with enough problems

>already to deal with, but has anyone felt great reluctance to

>vaccinate their younger children knowing that the older children had

>what might be called predispositions to neuro/psychological

>disorders? I have not had my 2 yr old vaccinated since his 6 mo

>checkup. I just feel very reluctant about it, but at the same time

>feeling like I'm taking a risk not having him vaccinated. Maybe I'll

>just wait until he is older. I feel like I can't handle anymore

>psychological problems(with the two older girls 12 and 9,and the 4th

>child a 4 yo boy who has stuttering and lots of fears though he's a

>pretty happy kid). Right now the 2 yr old and the 7 yr old seem the

>most average or unaffected or whatever you could call it. So as it

>stands the 12 yr old has had all vaccinations (with severe reactions

>as infant)including hepatitis and boosters. The 2 yr old has not been

>vaccinated since 6 mo and the 4, 7 and 9 yr olds I am reluctant to

>vaccinate further for hepatitis or chicken pox. I guess there is no

>hard evidence for risks from vaccination for kids predisposed to

>neurological problems, because you can't usually know they have those

>problems until they're older.

>

>

>You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at

parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to

the OCD and Homeschooling List at

ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your

subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our

list at . Our list advisors

are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D.

Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail

Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or

suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

lharkins@... .

>

>

>

>

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Regarding vaccinations: There has been much speculation and

discussion that the MMR vaccine " causes " autism. However, there is NO

scientific evidence, despite numerous studies by scientists here and

abroad, that the MMR causes autism or any other neurobiological

problem. There was a proven link between the Pertussis part of the

DPT vaccine and seizures, and they replaced that vaccine with

attenuated virus which eliminated the problem. Even in that case, the

rate of complications was extremely small.

I am old enough to have had all the formerly common childhood

diseases, and have friends who suffered serious complications and

PERMANENT disability as a result of having had measles, polio, mumps,

etc. Even the Amish in my community have their children immunized.

Helen Keller had severe complications from an early childhood bout of

measles and as a result was deaf, dumb and blind. Although she was

able to overcome these handicaps through the persistance of her

teacher, Anne Sullivan, I am grateful to Jonas Salk and the other

scientists whose work spared my 3 kids from these devastating

diseases.

As a healthcare professional, I encourage all of you to discuss your

concerns with your healthcare provider, and to seek peer-reviewed

journal articles on this issue. No vaccine is without risk, however,

this risk is infinitisimaly smaller than the risk of side effects from

measles, mumps, polio, etc. Please don't assume that your child is

safe because everyone else has vaccinated their children. The only

disease that has been eradicated is smallpox.

Jule Monnens, RN

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maybe i'm crazy, but i think that the chicken pox is the least important

vaccination to get. i'm sorry about the little girl dying from the chicken

pox, however that is pretty much unheard of. furthermore, is it even known

when the vaccination wears off? i fear for all the children who have had

this vaccination, especially girls getting pregnant and ending up getting

the chicken pox while pregnant as women. i believe the reason the

vaccination was made was so that parents wouldn't have to miss work to stay

home with their children.

Re: vaccinations

> I know a little girl who just died from complications from the

> chicken pox who was not vaccinated....

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at

parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to

the OCD and Homeschooling List at

ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your

subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our

list at . Our list advisors

are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D.

Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail

Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or

suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

lharkins@... .

>

>

>

>

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If this board becomes a debate on vaccinations, many OCD related

posts will get buried. I think it was an interesting point to bring

up with regard to neurological diseases, but there are clearly two

sides to vaccinations -- without scientific evidence --it's going to

have to be a personal choice. Until there is some concrete

information on whether vaccines cause neurological changes or

defects, all we have is conjecture, and we are going to be debating

the unresolved and very controversial issue about whether to

vaccinate our children. So far, scientific studies have not revealed

that vaccines cause neurological defects. I have multiple sclerosis

and there was a big buzz about the hepatitis vaccine causing MS.

Then that was disproven. --I would add to clarify my statement about

the girl who died of chicken pox (which was meant to explain the

risks of not getting vaccinations), that it is not unheard of that

children die of chicken pox. Many many die of chicken pox every

year due to rheumatic fever (which can also cause heart damage) and

rye syndrome and other problems. But in explaining my position I am

afraid to I have become entrenched in this pseudo-philosophical

debate on vaccinations. Please forgive me!

Stephany

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My pediatrician has recommended that my 12 yr old and 9 yr old get

the CP vaccination and that my younger kids wait to see if they get

naturally exposed until they reach age 7 or 8 (then get the

vaccination). I don't think the mother whose little girl died should

feel guilty for not vaccinating her daughter since doctors themselves

take varying approaches to the use of this vaccine. The other

questions about vaccines (re my reluctance to vaccinate my 2 yr old)

are probably too personal and subjective for this forum and so

counterproductive, so I too apologize for the tangent.

-- In @y..., " todd mowry " <mowry@m...> wrote:

> maybe i'm crazy, but i think that the chicken pox is the least

important

> vaccination to get. i'm sorry about the little girl dying from the

chicken

> pox, however that is pretty much unheard of. furthermore, is it

even known

> when the vaccination wears off? i fear for all the children who

have had

> this vaccination, especially girls getting pregnant and ending up

getting

> the chicken pox while pregnant as women. i believe the reason the

> vaccination was made was so that parents wouldn't have to miss work

to stay

> home with their children.

> Re: vaccinations

>

>

> > I know a little girl who just died from complications from the

> > chicken pox who was not vaccinated....

> >

> >

> > You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@v... . In

> the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You

may

> subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at

> parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe@y... . You may subscribe to

> the OCD and Homeschooling List at

> ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe@y... . You may change your

> subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives

for our

> list at . Our list

advisors

> are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan

Geller, M.D.

> Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens,

Gail

> Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or

> suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

> lharkins@b... .

> >

> >

> >

> >

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest guest

Hello, For me, having three children who had sz after Vaccines, and one who

became non verbal after vaccines, I became involved,, Now I simply sign the

back of the school form that states my religious beliefs are against

Vaccines, and that is it.

Vaccinations

Hi All. I have someone asking me for information that tells, first of all

why vacinations are not a good plan and second of all, how to legally not

get them.

Please send any info to her at this address jlgraves@... Her name is

.

She needs this info immediately as the pressure to get the shots is really

intense and she needs the tools to say no.

On her behalf, Thank you,

Donna

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Guest guest

Hello, For me, having three children who had sz after Vaccines, and one who

became non verbal after vaccines, I became involved,, Now I simply sign the

back of the school form that states my religious beliefs are against

Vaccines, and that is it.

Vaccinations

Hi All. I have someone asking me for information that tells, first of all

why vacinations are not a good plan and second of all, how to legally not

get them.

Please send any info to her at this address jlgraves@... Her name is

.

She needs this info immediately as the pressure to get the shots is really

intense and she needs the tools to say no.

On her behalf, Thank you,

Donna

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  • 9 months later...
Guest guest

Charlene

Wierd viruses heh? Stealth viruses are found in anthrax vaccines. We

as an entire family, tested positive, and I have two autistic children, and

a mother with myeloma (which is 100% of the time positive stealth). I

encourage you to get tested with Dr , and or call my doctor

who is affiliated with Dr who treats stealth patients!

His name is 626-572-8941 and Fax is

626-572-9288, Tell them wanted me to call you,

that " I have three autistic children, and my dh was in the

military and did receive anthrax vaccines " . That should get

him going. The secretary's name is Myarian. She will know

who I am, and why I am referring you. I also have pictures of

the buggers. We are on courses of antibiotics specific to stealth

and also a supplement regime. we all feel better, and the kids

with autism are doing wonderfully!

Don't tell him this directly, but try to get the cost down so that

your entire family can get sampled. It is normally 500.000 a head.

I got it down to 125.00. Also, try to get your physician involved.

Have him sent a fax from CCID (doctors pack) so that he may

study up on this. Most doctors are completely clueless. This

way, you can get a way to have insurance pay it (via an

" immune test " ).

List, this is highly underlooked. Even Dr Gupta in his last conference

mentioned he is concerned about this stealth. Stealth is in most of

our contaminated vaccines and is COMMUNICABLE. Most of our MMR vaccines

have mycoplasma

and borna and pestiviruses in them (diahreaal). Please think about the

complex neurological problems in your family...are they related?. Such

as the picture in mine? Two autistics, one ADD, I have CFS and ADD,

some OCD, some tics, cancers, even PETS are sick. Please think that

one through?

Kathy

vaccinations

> My name is Charlene and both husband and I are prior military. We

> have 3 kids two of them autistic. I heard some talk on

vacinations.........

> ..My husband was doped up on anthrax, yellow fever and typhoid to name a

few

> I was also doped up on typhoid and yellow fever never did get the

anthrax.

> I was a blood donor at Alaska Blood bank and always donated blood. I

> donated in december 1996. I got a yellow fever shot february 1997 which

put

> me in bed with tylenol ect. I was called back to donate march 1997 and

was

> denied because I tested positive to this weird virus. It was a virus that

> you get from 3rd world countries. They were desperate for B pos blood so

at

> my request sent a sample to a lab in New York. It also came back

positive.

> I am no longer a blood donor. Also at that time I got pregnant with my

son

> who is completely nonverbal. I would sure like to know how I had a

> positive result since my husband and I have not been in a 3rd world

country.

> I am a true believe that some of this doping does more harm then

> good!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Charlene

>

>

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Charlene

Wierd viruses heh? Stealth viruses are found in anthrax vaccines. We

as an entire family, tested positive, and I have two autistic children, and

a mother with myeloma (which is 100% of the time positive stealth). I

encourage you to get tested with Dr , and or call my doctor

who is affiliated with Dr who treats stealth patients!

His name is 626-572-8941 and Fax is

626-572-9288, Tell them wanted me to call you,

that " I have three autistic children, and my dh was in the

military and did receive anthrax vaccines " . That should get

him going. The secretary's name is Myarian. She will know

who I am, and why I am referring you. I also have pictures of

the buggers. We are on courses of antibiotics specific to stealth

and also a supplement regime. we all feel better, and the kids

with autism are doing wonderfully!

Don't tell him this directly, but try to get the cost down so that

your entire family can get sampled. It is normally 500.000 a head.

I got it down to 125.00. Also, try to get your physician involved.

Have him sent a fax from CCID (doctors pack) so that he may

study up on this. Most doctors are completely clueless. This

way, you can get a way to have insurance pay it (via an

" immune test " ).

List, this is highly underlooked. Even Dr Gupta in his last conference

mentioned he is concerned about this stealth. Stealth is in most of

our contaminated vaccines and is COMMUNICABLE. Most of our MMR vaccines

have mycoplasma

and borna and pestiviruses in them (diahreaal). Please think about the

complex neurological problems in your family...are they related?. Such

as the picture in mine? Two autistics, one ADD, I have CFS and ADD,

some OCD, some tics, cancers, even PETS are sick. Please think that

one through?

Kathy

vaccinations

> My name is Charlene and both husband and I are prior military. We

> have 3 kids two of them autistic. I heard some talk on

vacinations.........

> ..My husband was doped up on anthrax, yellow fever and typhoid to name a

few

> I was also doped up on typhoid and yellow fever never did get the

anthrax.

> I was a blood donor at Alaska Blood bank and always donated blood. I

> donated in december 1996. I got a yellow fever shot february 1997 which

put

> me in bed with tylenol ect. I was called back to donate march 1997 and

was

> denied because I tested positive to this weird virus. It was a virus that

> you get from 3rd world countries. They were desperate for B pos blood so

at

> my request sent a sample to a lab in New York. It also came back

positive.

> I am no longer a blood donor. Also at that time I got pregnant with my

son

> who is completely nonverbal. I would sure like to know how I had a

> positive result since my husband and I have not been in a 3rd world

country.

> I am a true believe that some of this doping does more harm then

> good!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Charlene

>

>

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

In a message dated 8/7/2003 9:27:45 AM Central Standard Time,

bbliss1@... writes:

> I need some quick suggestions -- our doctor's office called with a

> cancellation, so I can take my 5 year old son in for his checkup and

immunizations

> this afternoon.

>

> Although he hit most of his developmental milestones early, my son showed

> signs of some differences before he was even 6 months - for instance, being

> able to crawl, but not being able to sit up unsupported and not making any

> babbling sounds at all. He never had the sudden regression that so many

parents

> report between 12-24 months. He also never showed any immediate adverse

> effects from any of his shots. Our doctor's office stopped using vaccinations

> that contained thimerisol a few years before my son was born. So, I thought

in

> his case, it did not seem as if vaccinations would have been the cause of his

> autism.

>

> However, now I need to update his shots, and I am feeling a little uneasy

> about it. He is due for updates on MMR, DT, and Polio. We live in an urban

> area, and we have extended family members who travel quite a bit, so I have

> always thought it was a good idea to vaccinate. I really haven't heard a lot

of

> information about the impact of immunizations on older children. What

> decisions have you made for your school-aged children?

>

> Thanks!

> Geraldine

>

>

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Guest guest

In a message dated 8/7/2003 9:27:45 AM Central Standard Time,

bbliss1@... writes:

> I need some quick suggestions -- our doctor's office called with a

> cancellation, so I can take my 5 year old son in for his checkup and

immunizations

> this afternoon.

>

> Although he hit most of his developmental milestones early, my son showed

> signs of some differences before he was even 6 months - for instance, being

> able to crawl, but not being able to sit up unsupported and not making any

> babbling sounds at all. He never had the sudden regression that so many

parents

> report between 12-24 months. He also never showed any immediate adverse

> effects from any of his shots. Our doctor's office stopped using vaccinations

> that contained thimerisol a few years before my son was born. So, I thought

in

> his case, it did not seem as if vaccinations would have been the cause of his

> autism.

>

> However, now I need to update his shots, and I am feeling a little uneasy

> about it. He is due for updates on MMR, DT, and Polio. We live in an urban

> area, and we have extended family members who travel quite a bit, so I have

> always thought it was a good idea to vaccinate. I really haven't heard a lot

of

> information about the impact of immunizations on older children. What

> decisions have you made for your school-aged children?

>

> Thanks!

> Geraldine

>

>

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Guest guest

If you are just starting to research vaccines, maybe you should just have the

physical but tell them you will be back in a week or two for the vaccines. I

would never get the MMR but would rather space that vaccine into 3 separate

vaccines with at least 6 weeks if not 3 months between them. So I would get

the mumps today then 3 months later the rubella. As for the measles, probably

not as most system are having problems with this vaccine. Better yet, get

titers done for the MMR and all the other vaccines. My son did not have to have

his boosters that are given between 4 years and 6. He had titers done at 5

years 10 months and still had immunity. No point in over doing something that

is

so controversial.

Vaccines were created by caring concerned folks but now they are produced by

greedy corporations that are not concerned about adding mercury and bad

strains of viruses and will not willingly correct their stock without concerned

parents pushing and insisting that they do so. Really makes me want to trust

them

with what I value the most.

The above is just my opinion and I am not a doctor.

In a message dated 8/7/03 10:27:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bbliss1@... writes:

>

> I need some quick suggestions -- our doctor's office called with a

> cancellation, so I can take my 5 year old son in for his checkup and

immunizations

> this afternoon.

>

> Although he hit most of his developmental milestones early, my son showed

> signs of some differences before he was even 6 months - for instance, being

> able to crawl, but not being able to sit up unsupported and not making any

> babbling sounds at all. He never had the sudden regression that so many

parents

> report between 12-24 months. He also never showed any immediate adverse

> effects from any of his shots. Our doctor's office stopped using vaccinations

> that contained thimerisol a few years before my son was born. So, I thought

in

> his case, it did not seem as if vaccinations would have been the cause of his

> autism.

>

> However, now I need to update his shots, and I am feeling a little uneasy

> about it. He is due for updates on MMR, DT, and Polio. We live in an urban

> area, and we have extended family members who travel quite a bit, so I have

> always thought it was a good idea to vaccinate. I really haven't heard a lot

of

> information about the impact of immunizations on older children. What

> decisions have you made for your school-aged children?

>

> Thanks!

> Geraldine

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Guest guest

If you are just starting to research vaccines, maybe you should just have the

physical but tell them you will be back in a week or two for the vaccines. I

would never get the MMR but would rather space that vaccine into 3 separate

vaccines with at least 6 weeks if not 3 months between them. So I would get

the mumps today then 3 months later the rubella. As for the measles, probably

not as most system are having problems with this vaccine. Better yet, get

titers done for the MMR and all the other vaccines. My son did not have to have

his boosters that are given between 4 years and 6. He had titers done at 5

years 10 months and still had immunity. No point in over doing something that

is

so controversial.

Vaccines were created by caring concerned folks but now they are produced by

greedy corporations that are not concerned about adding mercury and bad

strains of viruses and will not willingly correct their stock without concerned

parents pushing and insisting that they do so. Really makes me want to trust

them

with what I value the most.

The above is just my opinion and I am not a doctor.

In a message dated 8/7/03 10:27:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bbliss1@... writes:

>

> I need some quick suggestions -- our doctor's office called with a

> cancellation, so I can take my 5 year old son in for his checkup and

immunizations

> this afternoon.

>

> Although he hit most of his developmental milestones early, my son showed

> signs of some differences before he was even 6 months - for instance, being

> able to crawl, but not being able to sit up unsupported and not making any

> babbling sounds at all. He never had the sudden regression that so many

parents

> report between 12-24 months. He also never showed any immediate adverse

> effects from any of his shots. Our doctor's office stopped using vaccinations

> that contained thimerisol a few years before my son was born. So, I thought

in

> his case, it did not seem as if vaccinations would have been the cause of his

> autism.

>

> However, now I need to update his shots, and I am feeling a little uneasy

> about it. He is due for updates on MMR, DT, and Polio. We live in an urban

> area, and we have extended family members who travel quite a bit, so I have

> always thought it was a good idea to vaccinate. I really haven't heard a lot

of

> information about the impact of immunizations on older children. What

> decisions have you made for your school-aged children?

>

> Thanks!

> Geraldine

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

If you are just starting to research vaccines, maybe you should just have the

physical but tell them you will be back in a week or two for the vaccines. I

would never get the MMR but would rather space that vaccine into 3 separate

vaccines with at least 6 weeks if not 3 months between them. So I would get

the mumps today then 3 months later the rubella. As for the measles, probably

not as most system are having problems with this vaccine. Better yet, get

titers done for the MMR and all the other vaccines. My son did not have to have

his boosters that are given between 4 years and 6. He had titers done at 5

years 10 months and still had immunity. No point in over doing something that

is

so controversial.

Vaccines were created by caring concerned folks but now they are produced by

greedy corporations that are not concerned about adding mercury and bad

strains of viruses and will not willingly correct their stock without concerned

parents pushing and insisting that they do so. Really makes me want to trust

them

with what I value the most.

The above is just my opinion and I am not a doctor.

In a message dated 8/7/03 10:27:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bbliss1@... writes:

>

> I need some quick suggestions -- our doctor's office called with a

> cancellation, so I can take my 5 year old son in for his checkup and

immunizations

> this afternoon.

>

> Although he hit most of his developmental milestones early, my son showed

> signs of some differences before he was even 6 months - for instance, being

> able to crawl, but not being able to sit up unsupported and not making any

> babbling sounds at all. He never had the sudden regression that so many

parents

> report between 12-24 months. He also never showed any immediate adverse

> effects from any of his shots. Our doctor's office stopped using vaccinations

> that contained thimerisol a few years before my son was born. So, I thought

in

> his case, it did not seem as if vaccinations would have been the cause of his

> autism.

>

> However, now I need to update his shots, and I am feeling a little uneasy

> about it. He is due for updates on MMR, DT, and Polio. We live in an urban

> area, and we have extended family members who travel quite a bit, so I have

> always thought it was a good idea to vaccinate. I really haven't heard a lot

of

> information about the impact of immunizations on older children. What

> decisions have you made for your school-aged children?

>

> Thanks!

> Geraldine

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  • 1 year later...

> backing for research from the anti-mercury lobby.

Could the doctor explain why is it safe to have mercury in the vaccines but

avoid eating fish since it may contain mercury?

>

> You can flame me, or whatever makes you feel better about it, but I

> just don't want everybody putting their kids health at further risk

> by clinging on to what is starting to look like a false lead. We

> should all pull together and try to go in a more positive direction.

>

Is there ay explanation for the thousand of kids that make great

improvements after chelation and they are dumping Mercury in their usrin

and have the urine tests to prove it?

I am not saying that I know for sure that Mercury is what caused my son's

autistic symptoms. However, i can't fathom those doctors who claim that

they know for sure that Mercury is not the culprit without credible,

realisitic, and serious research to either rule it in or rule it out. The

fact is that Mercury is a known toxin and if you look up the symptoms for

mercury poisoning, they are exaclt like the symptoms for autism.

>

>

> Texas Autism Advocacy

>

>

> Unlocking Autism

> www.UnlockingAutism.org

>

> Autism-Awareness-Action

> Worldwide internet group for parents who have a

> child with AUTISM.

>

> SeekingJoyinDisability - Prayer support for those touched by Disability:

> SeekingJoyinDisability/

>

>

>

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>She

went on to say that the one remaining doctor from the original study

that's still saying it might be a cause gets most of his financial

backing for research from the anti-mercury lobby.<

Believe me the anti-mercury lobby is just people like us and if he gets money

from us it isn't much. You will most likely find that all those doctors that

recanted were either somehow tied to big Pharma (who makes billions off of

vaccines) or are afraid of losing their license. The doctor you are probably

referring is Dr. Anderw Wakefield, and in my opinion he is the only honest one

in the bunch. That study had nothing to do with mercury. There is another

doctor who is a lone ranger and brave soul named Dr. Mark Geier. His background

is in vaccines. He participated in the development of DTaP and is still very

provaccine EXCEPT for mercury in vaccines. He is dismayed that the medical

profession of which he is a part is going to such links to ignore the truth

about the dangers and are instead putting out false information to the public.

>You can flame me, or whatever makes you feel better about it, but I

just don't want everybody putting their kids health at further risk

by clinging on to what is starting to look like a false lead. We

should all pull together and try to go in a more positive direction.<

I myself was injured by the flu vaccine, my grandson regressed into autism after

his last round shots, my now 21 year old daughter developed Fibromyalgia

(chronic pain) after she received the MMR booster and the Hep B series in High

School. I have done much research and I know that by submitting to the

propaganda about vaccines and subjecting our infants to them, they are more at

risk than not getting them. It all comes down to who are we going to believe?

When a doctor goes against the party line (FDA, AMA, IOM, Big Pharma), they are

risking their careers and reputations.

Here is one of those brave doctors and highly respected in the medical

community:

Date: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:06 am

Subject: Posted with permission from Dr. Tenpenny

The immune system cannot be " manipulated " safely. That is the biggest scam

medicine has ever created. .This paradigm must be changed to protect the next

generations. Non-vaccination must become the NORM, not the " radical " position.

Do we shy away from this? Because Big Pharma has more money than most small

countries? What are we REALLY afraid of???

It is amazing to me, as a physician, that vaccination has not been placed in

the same category as blood-letting leches and ascenic. Injecting infants with

dead viruses, dead bacteria and toxic chemicals IS BARBARIC. Every baby that I

see--at the mall, in the airport, on the street---I am compelled to protect

from vaccination. Why isn't everyone on this list feeling the same sense of

urgency??

We pussy-foot around this issue as to not " offend anybody. " And in the mean

time, we watch the carnage continue. I see it daily in my clinic. How any

physician who treats vaccine-injured children (and adults) can contine

to soft-pedal this issue is beyond me. I vaccillate between extremely sad (for

the

children AND their parents AND their sibilings) and wanting to hurt

somebody.....

Yes, you can attract " more bees with honey " , but why are we not far past

that? We are maiming the young and creating " customers for life " for Big

Pharma.....

I have been " accused " of being too " radical " and " driving people away " from

staring this Devil in the eye.....but when the blood that is running in the

streets is the next generation, shouldn't we ALL be " radical " ???? Like the mom

who was interviewed today about Paxil leading to her daughter's suicide: she is

convinced and convicted. She said to Big Pharma: " the blood of these children

is on your hands. " Well, the kidnapping of children's health is also on the

hands of Big Pharma to....and on the hand of those who continue to advocate

poisoning them with vaccines. There is no middle ground IF AND WHEN you actually

STUDY the information.

Compromising with the Devil is a dangerous and non-productive position. We

are at the point when " sticker shock " in terms of " this is what this is doing

to the long term health of your child " is essential.

Please.

Let's stop trying to find/design/advocate a " safer poison. " There is no such

thing.

A few annual/regional cases of measles or pertussis (that recover

uneventfully) DOES NOT exchange for tens of millions of cases of pediatric

asthma/allergies/cancer. Public health is more than low infection rates and high

vaccination

rates. HEALTH IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF INFECTIONS. Neither is HEALTH " managing "

symptoms with drugs. HEALTH is the lack of necessity for drugs!

If we can't decide this among ourselves---to completely revolt against a

barbaric proceedure---how will we ever effect a change in this " one size fits

all "

public policy?

Dr Sherri Tenpenny

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>She

went on to say that the one remaining doctor from the original study

that's still saying it might be a cause gets most of his financial

backing for research from the anti-mercury lobby.<

Believe me the anti-mercury lobby is just people like us and if he gets money

from us it isn't much. You will most likely find that all those doctors that

recanted were either somehow tied to big Pharma (who makes billions off of

vaccines) or are afraid of losing their license. The doctor you are probably

referring is Dr. Anderw Wakefield, and in my opinion he is the only honest one

in the bunch. That study had nothing to do with mercury. There is another

doctor who is a lone ranger and brave soul named Dr. Mark Geier. His background

is in vaccines. He participated in the development of DTaP and is still very

provaccine EXCEPT for mercury in vaccines. He is dismayed that the medical

profession of which he is a part is going to such links to ignore the truth

about the dangers and are instead putting out false information to the public.

>You can flame me, or whatever makes you feel better about it, but I

just don't want everybody putting their kids health at further risk

by clinging on to what is starting to look like a false lead. We

should all pull together and try to go in a more positive direction.<

I myself was injured by the flu vaccine, my grandson regressed into autism after

his last round shots, my now 21 year old daughter developed Fibromyalgia

(chronic pain) after she received the MMR booster and the Hep B series in High

School. I have done much research and I know that by submitting to the

propaganda about vaccines and subjecting our infants to them, they are more at

risk than not getting them. It all comes down to who are we going to believe?

When a doctor goes against the party line (FDA, AMA, IOM, Big Pharma), they are

risking their careers and reputations.

Here is one of those brave doctors and highly respected in the medical

community:

Date: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:06 am

Subject: Posted with permission from Dr. Tenpenny

The immune system cannot be " manipulated " safely. That is the biggest scam

medicine has ever created. .This paradigm must be changed to protect the next

generations. Non-vaccination must become the NORM, not the " radical " position.

Do we shy away from this? Because Big Pharma has more money than most small

countries? What are we REALLY afraid of???

It is amazing to me, as a physician, that vaccination has not been placed in

the same category as blood-letting leches and ascenic. Injecting infants with

dead viruses, dead bacteria and toxic chemicals IS BARBARIC. Every baby that I

see--at the mall, in the airport, on the street---I am compelled to protect

from vaccination. Why isn't everyone on this list feeling the same sense of

urgency??

We pussy-foot around this issue as to not " offend anybody. " And in the mean

time, we watch the carnage continue. I see it daily in my clinic. How any

physician who treats vaccine-injured children (and adults) can contine

to soft-pedal this issue is beyond me. I vaccillate between extremely sad (for

the

children AND their parents AND their sibilings) and wanting to hurt

somebody.....

Yes, you can attract " more bees with honey " , but why are we not far past

that? We are maiming the young and creating " customers for life " for Big

Pharma.....

I have been " accused " of being too " radical " and " driving people away " from

staring this Devil in the eye.....but when the blood that is running in the

streets is the next generation, shouldn't we ALL be " radical " ???? Like the mom

who was interviewed today about Paxil leading to her daughter's suicide: she is

convinced and convicted. She said to Big Pharma: " the blood of these children

is on your hands. " Well, the kidnapping of children's health is also on the

hands of Big Pharma to....and on the hand of those who continue to advocate

poisoning them with vaccines. There is no middle ground IF AND WHEN you actually

STUDY the information.

Compromising with the Devil is a dangerous and non-productive position. We

are at the point when " sticker shock " in terms of " this is what this is doing

to the long term health of your child " is essential.

Please.

Let's stop trying to find/design/advocate a " safer poison. " There is no such

thing.

A few annual/regional cases of measles or pertussis (that recover

uneventfully) DOES NOT exchange for tens of millions of cases of pediatric

asthma/allergies/cancer. Public health is more than low infection rates and high

vaccination

rates. HEALTH IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF INFECTIONS. Neither is HEALTH " managing "

symptoms with drugs. HEALTH is the lack of necessity for drugs!

If we can't decide this among ourselves---to completely revolt against a

barbaric proceedure---how will we ever effect a change in this " one size fits

all "

public policy?

Dr Sherri Tenpenny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, you are new to many things, and apparently not very good at

researching either.

This is what the article quotes the " recanting study doctors saying " " We

wish to make it clear that in this paper no causal link was established

between MMR vaccine and autism as the data were insufficient, " the

researchers said in the retraction. " However, the possibility of such a link

was raised and consequent events have had major implications. "

=====================================================================

Follows is a statement taken from Dr. Wakefield's letter to the Lancet about

this clinical paper. The Times erroneously refers to it as a study, BUT it

was a clinical paper only, not a study.

" It is worth reiterating that all of the first 12 children reported in the

Lancet study were referred to the Royal Free Hospital exclusively for the

investigation of their intestinal symptoms at a time when none was involved

in Legal Aid litigation. Their pathological findings were interpreted and

reported by clinicians who could have had no knowledge of any future legal

claim. The report itself was a description of the history as reported to us,

and the relevant clinical findings. NO CLAIM OF A CAUSAL ASSOCIATION WITH

MMR WAS EVER MADE. [capitals mine] An opinion on choice of single vaccines

pending scientific resolution of any possible association, expressed by

A[ndrew] J W[akefield] AT THE PRESS BRIEFING [capitals mine], was based not

on the findings in these children alone, but on a detailed investigation of

the history of MMR vaccine and its safety. "

==========================================

In other words, the paper published in the Lancet basically stated the

equivalent of 'Look! Isn't it odd? These 12 children with a diagnosis of

autism, have a unique, severe intestinal disorder, and also have measles

virus in their intestines. We recommend more study.'

That's it. So the question remains, what exactly are these doctors actually

recanting (a term I haven't heard since my research into the history of the

European witch trials)? They don't dispute the factual contents of the

paper. They " recant " some non-existant interpretation.

Now, Dr. Wakefield subsequently made comments in public that challenged the

safety of the MMR that have been born out by the uncooked results of the

Danish study (the part that follows the children until they are 5 and of a

diagnosable age in Denmark). However, because the stakes are so high and

the liability from this medically caused epidemic of neurological disease,

he has been hounded out of Royal Free Hospital, out of England, and almost

out of medicine.

The problems with the current US vaccination schedule are multiple:

1) too young (Hep B at birth has been proven by research to be ineffective)

2) too many (with many children being given more than four at a time)

3) mercury preservatives and other dangerous materials in adjuvuncts

including aluminum, fetal tissue etc.

4) multiple vaccines in one MMR, DPTa

The dangers are not just autism. Also asthma, ADD, ADHD, seizure disorder,

and diabetes. Japan looked at the higher rates of asthma in vaccinated

children and decided to wait until kids were two. Guess what? They didn't

have children dying on every street corner from vaccine preventable

diseases. First rule of medicine is do no harm. The vaccine program has

broken that rule. I have an uncle who died at three from whooping cough and

a vaccine damaged son. I heartily recommend not to vaccinate. I haven't

not vaccinated my younger daughter.

Come on. Surely you must have more evidence than your own mistaken belief

in BigPHARM and one poorly researched Times article.

I suggest you read some of the Drs. Geier research

Geier DA, Geier MR.

A comparative evaluation of the effects of MMR immunization and mercury

doses

from thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines on the population

prevalence of autism.

Med Sci Monit. 2004 Mar;10(3):PI33-9. Epub 2004 Mar 01.

PMID: 14976450 [PubMed - in process]

2: Geier DA, Geier MR.

An assessment of the impact of thimerosal on childhood

neurodevelopmental disorders.

Pediatr Rehabil. 2003 Apr-Jun;6(2):97-102.

PMID: 14534046 [PubMed - in process]

3: Geier MR, Geier DA.

Neurodevelopmental disorders after thimerosal-containing vaccines: a

brief communication.

Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2003 Jun;228(6):660-4.

PMID: 12773696 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Vaccinations

I'm a new member to this group.

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Share on other sites

Yes, you are new to many things, and apparently not very good at

researching either.

This is what the article quotes the " recanting study doctors saying " " We

wish to make it clear that in this paper no causal link was established

between MMR vaccine and autism as the data were insufficient, " the

researchers said in the retraction. " However, the possibility of such a link

was raised and consequent events have had major implications. "

=====================================================================

Follows is a statement taken from Dr. Wakefield's letter to the Lancet about

this clinical paper. The Times erroneously refers to it as a study, BUT it

was a clinical paper only, not a study.

" It is worth reiterating that all of the first 12 children reported in the

Lancet study were referred to the Royal Free Hospital exclusively for the

investigation of their intestinal symptoms at a time when none was involved

in Legal Aid litigation. Their pathological findings were interpreted and

reported by clinicians who could have had no knowledge of any future legal

claim. The report itself was a description of the history as reported to us,

and the relevant clinical findings. NO CLAIM OF A CAUSAL ASSOCIATION WITH

MMR WAS EVER MADE. [capitals mine] An opinion on choice of single vaccines

pending scientific resolution of any possible association, expressed by

A[ndrew] J W[akefield] AT THE PRESS BRIEFING [capitals mine], was based not

on the findings in these children alone, but on a detailed investigation of

the history of MMR vaccine and its safety. "

==========================================

In other words, the paper published in the Lancet basically stated the

equivalent of 'Look! Isn't it odd? These 12 children with a diagnosis of

autism, have a unique, severe intestinal disorder, and also have measles

virus in their intestines. We recommend more study.'

That's it. So the question remains, what exactly are these doctors actually

recanting (a term I haven't heard since my research into the history of the

European witch trials)? They don't dispute the factual contents of the

paper. They " recant " some non-existant interpretation.

Now, Dr. Wakefield subsequently made comments in public that challenged the

safety of the MMR that have been born out by the uncooked results of the

Danish study (the part that follows the children until they are 5 and of a

diagnosable age in Denmark). However, because the stakes are so high and

the liability from this medically caused epidemic of neurological disease,

he has been hounded out of Royal Free Hospital, out of England, and almost

out of medicine.

The problems with the current US vaccination schedule are multiple:

1) too young (Hep B at birth has been proven by research to be ineffective)

2) too many (with many children being given more than four at a time)

3) mercury preservatives and other dangerous materials in adjuvuncts

including aluminum, fetal tissue etc.

4) multiple vaccines in one MMR, DPTa

The dangers are not just autism. Also asthma, ADD, ADHD, seizure disorder,

and diabetes. Japan looked at the higher rates of asthma in vaccinated

children and decided to wait until kids were two. Guess what? They didn't

have children dying on every street corner from vaccine preventable

diseases. First rule of medicine is do no harm. The vaccine program has

broken that rule. I have an uncle who died at three from whooping cough and

a vaccine damaged son. I heartily recommend not to vaccinate. I haven't

not vaccinated my younger daughter.

Come on. Surely you must have more evidence than your own mistaken belief

in BigPHARM and one poorly researched Times article.

I suggest you read some of the Drs. Geier research

Geier DA, Geier MR.

A comparative evaluation of the effects of MMR immunization and mercury

doses

from thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines on the population

prevalence of autism.

Med Sci Monit. 2004 Mar;10(3):PI33-9. Epub 2004 Mar 01.

PMID: 14976450 [PubMed - in process]

2: Geier DA, Geier MR.

An assessment of the impact of thimerosal on childhood

neurodevelopmental disorders.

Pediatr Rehabil. 2003 Apr-Jun;6(2):97-102.

PMID: 14534046 [PubMed - in process]

3: Geier MR, Geier DA.

Neurodevelopmental disorders after thimerosal-containing vaccines: a

brief communication.

Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2003 Jun;228(6):660-4.

PMID: 12773696 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Vaccinations

I'm a new member to this group.

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:

Great summary! All our decisions evolve around a risk/benefit ratio; we are

willing to take action when the benefits outweigth the risks. At one point

the vaccination benefits outweigthed the risks of adverse reactions but I

don't think that's the case any more. My son had a similar history: he was

vaccinated when he was on antibiotics, when he had fever, when he had ear

infections. He received the Hep B after a difficult delivery. This is

unethical, wrong and as far as I am concern, criminal. Even in underdeveloped

countries they make sure that the kid is healthy before administering

vaccinations. You will be surprise how many physicians are secrectly not

vaccinating their kids. I personally spoke with a Texas Children

developmental pediatrician which is advising parents not to vaccinate the

siblings of their autistic children. I have MD friends that are not

vaccinating after they saw what happened to my son. I wish too I knew all

that I know now about the risks associated with vaccines, maybe my life will

be different. All these physicians and vaccine experts go home at night to

their families and NT children. I go home every night to continue my 24/7

battle against autism. As my husband says, we were truly vaccine advocates at

one point and we paid for it.

I advocate TRUE informed consent. Show me the data, good and bad, and let me

make the decision. Always remember, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

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I apologize if my tone in the previous vaccination post offended. I used to

feel somewhat similar to you. But after I read the Simpsonwood transcript

(a meeting of the top doctors in the US who are supposed to be watching otu

for our children's health and safety) where they candidly discussed the high

levels of mercury, the liability of that mistake and where one of the

doctors even excused himself from the meeting to have his newly born

grandson's vaccinations stopped, I snapped out of it.

My disgust has grown over the last two years as I have watched top

government officials with large financial interests in big Pharm collude

and try to protect those companies, while children get sicker. Health

insurance premiums are driven through the roof by the drug costs for chronic

conditions, and rising health insurance premiums make foreign labor seem

much cheaper.

I spoke candidly with a top CDC official about the situation, and he shared

that there are many in the CDC who recommended against the IOM report being

published when it was, but were overridden by even higher officials from the

hill.

The problem that is being ignored has the potential to be the straw that

breaks the US's back as the baby boomers being to retire and people have to

spend their energies caring for multiple sick family members instead of

building a better widget.

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I apologize if my tone in the previous vaccination post offended. I used to

feel somewhat similar to you. But after I read the Simpsonwood transcript

(a meeting of the top doctors in the US who are supposed to be watching otu

for our children's health and safety) where they candidly discussed the high

levels of mercury, the liability of that mistake and where one of the

doctors even excused himself from the meeting to have his newly born

grandson's vaccinations stopped, I snapped out of it.

My disgust has grown over the last two years as I have watched top

government officials with large financial interests in big Pharm collude

and try to protect those companies, while children get sicker. Health

insurance premiums are driven through the roof by the drug costs for chronic

conditions, and rising health insurance premiums make foreign labor seem

much cheaper.

I spoke candidly with a top CDC official about the situation, and he shared

that there are many in the CDC who recommended against the IOM report being

published when it was, but were overridden by even higher officials from the

hill.

The problem that is being ignored has the potential to be the straw that

breaks the US's back as the baby boomers being to retire and people have to

spend their energies caring for multiple sick family members instead of

building a better widget.

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In a message dated 9/23/2004 11:32:53 AM Central Daylight Time,

jdsk1198@... writes:

She said that since that

article was published, 2 more of the doctors recanted as well. She

went on to say that the one remaining doctor from the original study

that's still saying it might be a cause gets most of his financial

backing for research from the anti-mercury lobby.

My post:

Who the heck is the anti-mercury lobby? That must be us. Like we have more

money than the pharmaceutical companies? PLEASE. The reason our kids get

shafted so much is because we don't have a good lobby. We are all too broke and

too busy dealing with our kids. This Doctor needs to get a clue about the

real world.

Just my .02 cents.

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