Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing

[Guest guest]

Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do get themselves into a muddle, don't they? On the whole, I think I would prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they don't either like or understand them and I guess their list of professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently). I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am wrong? I think they think:1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do something about it (I agree with that too) 2. Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) 3. Nursing and health visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when health visitors do something good/are in favour with government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can claim nurses have done it. 4. By claiming that nurses do everything that health visitors do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we (RCN) can justify the following beliefs: a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health visitors (they have almost succeeded with that)b. There is no need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyonec. If we must have health visitors (as now, when the government is supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school children), any promotion/specialisation/expansion is regarded as a return to the 'nursing family'd. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting are the same, and nursing is what is really importantI gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/current view. Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that health visiting is a separate profession, with a distinct knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things.best wishes. On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote:The RCN has had the idea of holding a session on 'public health nursing', No health visitors or school nurses among their suggested professional interest groups though...Here's the text of the email I received:_________________________________________Have your say about public health nursing RCN and the public health agenda Promote, protect, prevent: Public health is every nurses business Friday 17 February 2012 Novotel West, Hammersmith, LondonAs a member of the Royal College of Nursing we are pleased to offer you a special discounted rate of £85 to attend this exciting one day programme. Latest speakers announced Sir Marmot, Director, UCL Institute for Society and Health, London Dr OBE, Chief Executive and General Secretary, RCN Dr Steve Boorman, Lead, NHS Health and Wellbeing review This one day programme has been designed to cover the broad themes of public health nursing whilst also offering you a choice of interactive sessions best suited to your interests and practice. Five reasons to attend: Insight and solutions to help translate the Health and Social Care Bill 2011 into local practice Over 20 interactive sessions available relevant to your clinical practice Learn from nationally recognised best practice examples and enhance your CPD View a large public health exhibition with hours of networking opportunities included in the programme Your chance to influence the public health agenda and shape health care policy This discount is valid for the first 150 RCN members quoting DIS150. The offer is available for a limited time only. Book now by calling 029 2054 6460 or download a booking form and fax, post or email back (full details on the booking form). All other discounts apply, including student and group bookings. Unfortunately this discount cannot be booked online and is available to RCN members only. Who should attend? All health care professionals are welcome to attend, join others booked on including; TB Nurse Specialist, Medical Manager, Occupational Health Practitioner, Practice Nurse, Community Nurse, Travel Health Nurse, Public Health Specialist, Nurse Practitioner Visit the conference website at www.rcn.org.uk/publichealth2012 for programme and speaker updates and to download a booking form. I do hope you will be able to join us at this one day event, please forward on to your colleagues who may also be interested in attending. Best wishes Benfield RCN Events Royal College of Nursing 20 Cavendish Square London W1G 0RN Tel: +44 (0) 20 7647 3577 Fax: +44(0) 20 7647 3411 Sponsorship is currently being sought for this event_____________________________________________ Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn

[Guest guest]

Could not have said better myself!LizSent using BlackBerry® from OrangeFrom: Cowley <sarahcowley183@...>Sender: Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:36:38 +0100< >Reply Subject: Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do get themselves into a muddle, don't they? On the whole, I think I would prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they don't either like or understand them and I guess their list of professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently). I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am wrong? I think they think:1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do something about it (I agree with that too) 2. Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) 3. Nursing and health visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when health visitors do something good/are in favour with government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can claim nurses have done it. 4. By claiming that nurses do everything that health visitors do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we (RCN) can justify the following beliefs: a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health visitors (they have almost succeeded with that)b. There is no need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyonec. If we must have health visitors (as now, when the government is supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school children), any promotion/specialisation/expansion is regarded as a return to the 'nursing family'd. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting are the same, and nursing is what is really importantI gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/current view. Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that health visiting is a separate profession, with a distinct knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things.best wishes. On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote:The RCN has had the idea of holding a session on 'public health nursing', No health visitors or school nurses among their suggested professional interest groups though...Here's the text of the email I received:_________________________________________Have your say about public health nursing RCN and the public health agenda Promote, protect, prevent: Public health is every nurses business Friday 17 February 2012 Novotel West, Hammersmith, LondonAs a member of the Royal College of Nursing we are pleased to offer you a special discounted rate of £85 to attend this exciting one day programme. Latest speakers announced Sir Marmot, Director, UCL Institute for Society and Health, London Dr OBE, Chief Executive and General Secretary, RCN Dr Steve Boorman, Lead, NHS Health and Wellbeing review This one day programme has been designed to cover the broad themes of public health nursing whilst also offering you a choice of interactive sessions best suited to your interests and practice. Five reasons to attend: Insight and solutions to help translate the Health and Social Care Bill 2011 into local practice Over 20 interactive sessions available relevant to your clinical practice Learn from nationally recognised best practice examples and enhance your CPD View a large public health exhibition with hours of networking opportunities included in the programme Your chance to influence the public health agenda and shape health care policy This discount is valid for the first 150 RCN members quoting DIS150. The offer is available for a limited time only. Book now by calling 029 2054 6460 or download a booking form and fax, post or email back (full details on the booking form). All other discounts apply, including student and group bookings. Unfortunately this discount cannot be booked online and is available to RCN members only. Who should attend? All health care professionals are welcome to attend, join others booked on including; TB Nurse Specialist, Medical Manager, Occupational Health Practitioner, Practice Nurse, Community Nurse, Travel Health Nurse, Public Health Specialist, Nurse Practitioner Visit the conference website at www.rcn.org.uk/publichealth2012 for programme and speaker updates and to download a booking form. I do hope you will be able to join us at this one day event, please forward on to your colleagues who may also be interested in attending. Best wishes Benfield RCN Events Royal College of Nursing 20 Cavendish Square London W1G 0RN Tel: +44 (0) 20 7647 3577 Fax: +44(0) 20 7647 3411 Sponsorship is currently being sought for this event_____________________________________________ Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn

[Guest guest]

Some comments addedRegardsFrom: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of CowleySent: 17 October 2011 14:37 Subject: Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do get themselves into a muddle, don't they? On the whole, I think I would prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they don't either like or understand them and I guess their list of professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently). I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am wrong? I think they think: 1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do something about it (I agree with that too) Public health encompasses wider perspectives and interfaces with many areas … public health nursing is global and not just associated with one area of practice…. Concepts of health vary around the globe – systems are not people – variations between private and public and state and individual2. Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) yes3. Nursing and health visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when health visitors do something good/are in favour with government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can claim nurses have done it. Too many tensions 4. By claiming that nurses do everything that health visitor do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we (RCN) can justify the following beliefs: a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health visitors (they have almost succeeded with that)is that the real case?? There are variations on the registerb. There is no need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyone  seems that over time many parts didn’t get a mention….c. If we must have health visitors (as now, when the government is supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school children), any promotion/specialisation/expansion is regarded as a return to the 'nursing family'is that the case?.........what’s wrong in wider connections?d. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting are the same, and nursing is what is really important  - why look for separateness ? I gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/current view. Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that health visiting is a separate profession, with a distinct knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things. best wishes . On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote:The RCN has had the idea of holding a session on 'public health nursing', No health visitors or school nurses among their suggested professional interest groups though...Here's the text of the email I received:_________________________________________Have your say about public health nursing RCN and the public health agenda Promote, protect, prevent: Public health is every nurses business Friday 17 February 2012 Novotel West, Hammersmith, LondonAs a member of the Royal College of Nursing we are pleased to offer you a special discounted rate of £85 to attend this exciting one day programme. Latest speakers announced Sir Marmot, Director, UCL Institute for Society and Health, London Dr OBE, Chief Executive and General Secretary, RCN Dr Steve Boorman, Lead, NHS Health and Wellbeing review This one day programme has been designed to cover the broad themes of public health nursing whilst also offering you a choice of interactive sessions best suited to your interests and practice. Five reasons to attend: Insight and solutions to help translate the Health and Social Care Bill 2011 into local practice Over 20 interactive sessions available relevant to your clinical practice Learn from nationally recognised best practice examples and enhance your CPD View a large public health exhibition with hours of networking opportunities included in the programme Your chance to influence the public health agenda and shape health care policy This discount is valid for the first 150 RCN members quoting DIS150. The offer is available for a limited time only. Book now by calling 029 2054 6460 or download a booking form and fax, post or email back (full details on the booking form). All other discounts apply, including student and group bookings. Unfortunately this discount cannot be booked online and is available to RCN members only. Who should attend? All health care professionals are welcome to attend, join others booked on including; TB Nurse Specialist, Medical Manager, Occupational Health Practitioner, Practice Nurse, Community Nurse, Travel Health Nurse, Public Health Specialist, Nurse Practitioner Visit the conference website at www.rcn.org.uk/publichealth2012 for programme and speaker updates and to download a booking form. I do hope you will be able to join us at this one day event, please forward on to your colleagues who may also be interested in attending. Best wishes Benfield RCN Events Royal College of Nursing 20 Cavendish Square London W1G 0RN Tel: +44 (0) 20 7647 3577 Fax: +44(0) 20 7647 3411 Sponsorship is currently being sought for this event_____________________________________________ Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn

[Guest guest]

SNMAC did some work on public health being everyone's business about 15 years ago but I've never seen a proper analysis of what that would mean for example in A & E. Perhaps the RCN could engage with the evidence on rapid interventions on alcohol for example. In the meantime it's confusing to have a discussion on 'public health nursing' which doesn't start with SCPHNs. Sent from my iPhoneOn 17 Oct 2011, at 14:37, " Cowley " <sarahcowley183@...> wrote: Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do get themselves into a muddle, don't they? On the whole, I think I would prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they don't either like or understand them and I guesstheir list of professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently). I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am wrong? I think they think:1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do something about it (I agree with that too) 2. Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) 3. Nursing and health visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when health visitors do something good/are in favour with government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can claim nurses have done it. 4. By claiming that nurses do everything that health visitors do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we (RCN) can justify the following beliefs: a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health visitors (they have almost succeeded with that)b. There is no need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyonec. If we must have health visitors (as now, when the government is supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school children), any promotion/specialisation/expansionis regarded as a return to the 'nursing family'd. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting are the same, and nursing is what is really importantI gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/currentview. Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that health visiting is a separate profession,with a distinct knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things.best wishes. On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote:The RCN has had the idea of holding a session on 'public health nursing', No health visitors or school nurses among their suggested professional interest groups though...Here's the text of the email I received:_________________________________________Have your say about public health nursing RCN and the public health agenda Promote, protect, prevent: Public health is every nurses business Friday 17 February 2012 Novotel West, Hammersmith, LondonAs a member of the Royal College of Nursing we are pleased to offer you a special discounted rate of £85 to attend this exciting one day programme. Latest speakers announced Sir Marmot, Director, UCL Institute for Society and Health, London Dr OBE, Chief Executive and General Secretary, RCN Dr Steve Boorman, Lead, NHS Health and Wellbeing review This one day programme has been designed to cover the broad themes of public health nursing whilst also offering you a choice of interactive sessions best suited to your interests and practice. Five reasons to attend: Insight and solutions to help translate the Health and Social Care Bill 2011 into local practice Over 20 interactive sessions available relevant to your clinical practice Learn from nationally recognised best practice examples and enhance your CPD View a large public health exhibition with hours of networking opportunities included in the programme Your chance to influence the public health agenda and shape health care policy This discount is valid for the first 150 RCN members quoting DIS150. The offer is available for a limited time only. Book now by calling 029 2054 6460 or download a booking form and fax, post or email back (full details on the booking form). All other discounts apply, including student and group bookings. Unfortunately this discount cannot be booked online and is available to RCN members only. Who should attend? All health care professionals are welcome to attend, join others booked on including; TB Nurse Specialist, Medical Manager, Occupational Health Practitioner, Practice Nurse, Community Nurse, Travel Health Nurse, Public Health Specialist, Nurse Practitioner Visit the conference website at www.rcn.org.uk/publichealth2012 for programme and speaker updates and to download a booking form. I do hope you will be able to join us at this one day event, please forward on to your colleagues who may also be interested in attending. Best wishes Benfield RCN Events Royal College of Nursing 20 Cavendish Square London W1G 0RN Tel: +44 (0) 20 7647 3577 Fax: +44(0) 20 7647 3411 Sponsorship is currently being sought for this event_____________________________________________ Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COnUniversity of Greenwich, a charity and company limited by guarantee,registered in England (reg. no. 986729). Registered office:Old Royal Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London SE10 9LS.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this reminder Liz. I seem to remember it, but it is

indeed ages ago.

To be honest, I would have hoped the RCN would have started with

promoting better health among older people in hospital and long term

care settings. Primum no nocere...

" " < >

From: Meerabeau <E.Meerabeau@...>

Date sent: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:40:50 +0100

Subject: Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing

Send reply to:

>

>

>

> SNMAC did some work on public health being everyone's business about

> 15 years ago but I've never seen a proper analysis of what that would

> mean for example in A & E. Perhaps the RCN could engage with the

> evidence on rapid interventions on alcohol for example.

>

> In the meantime it's confusing to have a discussion on 'public health

> nursing' which doesn't start with SCPHNs.

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On 17 Oct 2011, at 14:37, " Cowley "

> <sarahcowley183@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do

> get themselves into a muddle, don't they?On the whole, I think I would

> prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they

> don't either like or understand them and I guess their list of

> professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects

> their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have

> tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently).

>

> I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like

> this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am

> wrong? I think they think:

>

> 1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do

> something about it(I agree with that too) 2. Nursing is important and

> is our membership, so nurses should think aboutpublic health/do

> something about it(I agree with that too) 3. Nursing and health

> visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when

> health visitors do something good/are in favour with

> government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can

> claim nurses have done it. 4. By claiming that nurses do everything

> that health visitors do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we

> (RCN) can justify the following beliefs:

> a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health

> visitors (they have almost succeeded with that) b. There is no

> need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop

> them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyone c. If we

> must have health visitors (as now, when the government is

> supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly

> limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school

> children), any promotion/specialisation/expansion is regarded as a

> return to the 'nursing family'

>

> d. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever

> possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting

> are the same, and nursing is what is really important

>

> I gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign

> to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten

> years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it

> wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/current view.

> Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they

> get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health

> field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that

> health visiting is a separate profession, with a distinct

> knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things.

>

> best wishes

>

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote:

>

> The RCN has had the idea of holding a session on 'public health

> nursing', No health visitors or school nurses among their

> suggested professional interest groups though...

>

> Here's the text of the email I received:

>

> _________________________________________

>

> Have your say about public health nursing

>

> RCN and the public health agenda

> Promote, protect, prevent: Public health is every nurses business

> Friday 17 February 2012 Novotel West, Hammersmith, London

>

> As a member of the Royal College of Nursing we are pleased to

> offer you a special discounted rate of £85 to attend this

> exciting one day programme.

>

> Latest speakers announced

>

> Sir Marmot, Director, UCL Institute for Society and

> Health, London Dr OBE, Chief Executive and General

> Secretary, RCN Dr Steve Boorman, Lead, NHS Health and Wellbeing

> review

>

> This one day programme has been designed to cover the broad themes

> of public health nursing whilst also offering you a choice of

> interactive sessions best suited to your interests and practice.

>

> Five reasons to attend:

>

> Insight and solutions to help translate the Health and Social Care

> Bill 2011 into local practice Over 20 interactive sessions

> available relevant to your clinical practice Learn from nationally

> recognised best practice examples and enhance your CPD View a

> large public health exhibition with hours of networking

> opportunities included in the programme Your chance to influence

> the public health agenda and shape health care policy

>

> This discount is valid for the first 150 RCN members quoting

> DIS150. The offer is available for a limited time only.

>

> Book now by calling 029 2054 6460 or download a booking form and

> fax, post or email back (full details on the booking form). All

> other discounts apply, including student and group bookings.

> Unfortunately this discount cannot be booked online and is

> available to RCN members only.

>

> Who should attend?

>

> All health care professionals are welcome to attend, join others

> booked on including;

>

> TB Nurse Specialist, Medical Manager, Occupational Health

> Practitioner, Practice Nurse, Community Nurse, Travel Health

> Nurse, Public Health Specialist, Nurse Practitioner

>

> Visit the conference website atwww.rcn.org.uk/publichealth2012 for

> programme and speaker updates and to download a booking form.

>

> I do hope you will be able to join us at this one day event,

> please forward on to your colleagues who may also be interested in

> attending.

>

> Best wishes

>

> Benfield

> RCN Events

> Royal College of Nursing

> 20 Cavendish Square

> London W1G 0RN

>

> Tel: +44 (0) 20 7647 3577

> Fax: +44(0) 20 7647 3411

>

> Sponsorship is currently being sought for this event

>

> _____________________________________________

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Cowley

> sarahcowley183@...

> http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> University of Greenwich, a charity and company limited by guarantee,

> registered in England (reg. no. 986729). Registered office: Old Royal

> Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London SE10 9LS.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your comments , does this mean you understand the RCN position (unlike so many of us?) I am sorry that I didn't understand your cryptic annotations, so do you have time to expand or explain, please?On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:01, Fogarty wrote: Some comments addedRegardsFrom: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of CowleySent: 17 October 2011 14:37 Subject: Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do get themselves into a muddle, don't they? On the whole, I think I would prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they don't either like or understand them and I guess their list of professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently). I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am wrong? I think they think: 1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do something about it (I agree with that too) Public health encompasses wider perspectives and interfaces with many areas … public health nursing is global and not just associated with one area of practice…. Concepts of health vary around the globe – systems are not people – variations between private and public and state and individual2. Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) yes3. Nursing and health visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when health visitors do something good/are in favour with government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can claim nurses have done it. Too many tensions4. By claiming that nurses do everything that health visitor do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we (RCN) can justify the following beliefs: a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health visitors (they have almost succeeded with that)is that the real case?? There are variations on the registerb. There is no need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyone seems that over time many parts didn’t get a mention….c. If we must have health visitors (as now, when the government is supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school children), any promotion/specialisation/expansion is regarded as a return to the 'nursing family'is that the case?.........what’s wrong in wider connections?d. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting are the same, and nursing is what is really important - why look for separateness ? I gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/current view. Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that health visiting is a separate profession, with a distinct knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things. best wishes . On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote: Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn

[Guest guest]

Hello What matters?Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) Too many tensions - connectivity more important than splitting Obviously differences in context of working environments or with people/communities however lots of connection too. Doesn’t the register have prt3?Importance of Nursing, SCPHN HV SN, Midwives, DN new developments etc. – though lack of understanding in some quarters on decision making for developments/education and so forth….. Why for example is it surprising that numbers got low all over ‘the family’ when this is not new news? Look at the impact of lack of access to continuing Prof Development, look at the tension which still seems to exit between ‘illnesses’ and ‘health’ RegardsFrom: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of CowleySent: 18 October 2011 11:03 Subject: Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing Thanks for your comments , does this mean you understand the RCN position (unlike so many of us?) I am sorry that I didn't understand your cryptic annotations, so do you have time to expand or explain, please? On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:01, Fogarty wrote: Some comments addedRegardsFrom: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of CowleySent: 17 October 2011 14:37 Subject: Re: The RCN thinks about public health nursing Thanks for keeping us up to date with RCN thinking, . They do get themselves into a muddle, don't they? On the whole, I think I would prefer for them to omit health visiting and school nursing, as they don't either like or understand them and I guess their list of professionals invited to talk about public health nursing reflects their current membership (although, to CPHVA's annoyance, the RCN have tried to claim a large membership of health visitors recently). I try to make some sense of the RCN views, and believe they go like this, but please will more informed colleagues correct me if I am wrong? I think they think: 1. Public health is important, so we should all think about it/do something about it (I agree with that too) Public health encompasses wider perspectives and interfaces with many areas … public health nursing is global and not just associated with one area of practice…. Concepts of health vary around the globe – systems are not people – variations between private and public and state and individual2. Nursing is important and is our membership, so nurses should think about public health/do something about it (I agree with that too) yes3. Nursing and health visiting are the same profession (I don't agree with that), so when health visitors do something good/are in favour with government/achieve something related to public health, we (RCN) can claim nurses have done it. Too many tensions4. By claiming that nurses do everything that health visitor do/nurses are synonymous with health visitors we (RCN) can justify the following beliefs: a. There is no need for separate regulation of nurses and health visitors (they have almost succeeded with that)is that the real case?? There are variations on the registerb. There is no need to mention health visitors/health visiting (except to stop them complaining), as the term 'nursing' covers everyone seems that over time many parts didn’t get a mention….c. If we must have health visitors (as now, when the government is supporting them), we should make sure their role is strictly limited to a single post/function (i.e. a caseload of pre-school children), any promotion/specialisation/expansion is regarded as a return to the 'nursing family'is that the case?.........what’s wrong in wider connections?d. Nurses can/should substitute for health visitors wherever possible, to reinforce the point that nursing and health visiting are the same, and nursing is what is really important - why look for separateness ? I gave up my RCN membership when they began their successful campaign to remove/close the health visiting register, so I am more than ten years out of date. If they have changed their position and I have it wrong, I would be pleased to hear the alternative/current view. Actually, they do a lot of good stuff, but I genuinely believe they get themselves tangled up whenever they venture into the public health field because they simply cannot bring themselves to recognise that health visiting is a separate profession, with a distinct knowledge/skills base and different way of doing things. best wishes . On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:49, hwood@... wrote: Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn

[Guest guest]

Thank you , for following this up. I agree that it is not enough to ignore something because there is dissent or different views about it: better to learn to discuss competing views in a professional and respectful way. I do feel that the nursing profession (as exemplified by RCN, DH, NMC and other 'nursing bodies;' CPHVA as well in many instances) spends a huge amount of time looking for commonalities, but very little energy in working out how to deal with difference. Yet there is often much to be gained by examining difference or interacting meaningfully across boundaries that mark different ways of working or thinking and much to be lost in seeking the 'lowest common denominator'. best wishesOn 19 Oct 2011, at 12:20, hwood@... wrote: You make an interesting beginning for an argument, . Your first premise is certainly accepted and its implications are the nurses should prevent the preventable whenever this lies within their sphere of responsibility and their power to affect the outcomes. I would argue that malnourished elderly people in hospital and the development of pressure sores and cross infection seem like a good place to start. These factors are physically harmful to health. There are also factors that affect the mental health of patients in relation to their nursing care - anxiety, fear of the unknown, frustration and the kind of abuse which leads to patients being belittled and disparaged or made to feel that their needs and their personal dignity are not important. These are urgent public healthconcerns for nurses because there is evidence that failure to address them leads to preventable morbidity and mortality. They lie within the sphere of nursing practice and it's not easy to see how they can be the concern of any other professional or technical group of care staff. Your second premise is a perplexing non sequitur. You imply that dissenting views are unimportant, but that any collective body of opinion should avoid the resulting tensions. I'm not very clear what your grounds are for that assertion, nor what you feel would be the harmful effects of any group or individual holding another opinion from the (presumably) majority one. As it stands, this statement would seem to justify ignoring or supressing any minority expressing a different opinion. I may be completely misunderstanding your second point as it stands and I'm not clear about what it has to do with public health. Please can you clarify? Cowleysarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn