Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I am a member of another forum and posted the ambergris information that I found in the files here. True or not true? Wondering what everyone thinks of this response that a moderator posted: " First off, the FDA has nothing to do with what's legal to buy and sell when it comes to endangered species. If you'll read your link, look at the title of the document: Title 21 (Food & Drug), Chapter 1 (FDA's Dept of Health and Human Services), Subchapter B (Food for Human Consumption), Part 182 (Substances Generally Recognized to be Safe), Subpart A (General Provisions), Section 182.50 (Certain other spices, seasonings, essential oils, oleoresins, and natural extracts). In other words, the FDA is saying that ambergris is generally considered to safe to eat as a flavoring agent (aka, in small amounts). Also, with the source of ambergris (the sperm well) being included as an Appendix I animal on CITES (since1985) means that making trade in products (i.e. sperm oil, teeth, and ambergris) is illegal in most countries. Importing ambergris has been illegal in the US since the Endangered Species Act of 1973 (which was passed at a time when 96% of the ambergris was harvested from sperm whales NOT as shore washups - source). Though, further talk about ambergris, its illegality (or lack thereof), and use in perfumery should be directed here. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 The person re-edited to now read as follows: " First off, the FDA has nothing to do with what's legal to buy and sell when it comes to endangered species. If you'll read your link, look at the title of the document: Title 21 (Food & Drug), Chapter 1 (FDA's Dept of Health and Human Services), Subchapter B (Food for Human Consumption), Part 182 (Substances Generally Recognized to be Safe), Subpart A (General Provisions), Section 182.50 (Certain other spices, seasonings, essential oils, oleoresins, and natural extracts). In other words, the FDA is saying that ambergris is generally considered to safe to eat as a flavoring agent (aka, in small amounts). Also, with the source of ambergris (the sperm well) being included as an Appendix I animal on CITES means that making trade in products (i.e. sperm oil, teeth, and ambergris) is illegal in most countries. Specifically, importing ambergris has been illegal in the US since the Endangered Species Act of 1973 (which was passed at a time when 96% of the ambergris was harvested from sperm whales NOT as shore washups - source). The fact that Customs doesn't necessarily catch it inbound doesn't make it legal - they really tend to focus on more deleterious things (for instance, when I came in fron a semester in France, they were much more concerned as to whether or not I'd been playing in agricultural areas with hoof and mouth or went to Amsterdam than whether or not I exceeded my wine and spirits allotment). (And think about the amount of heroin and coke that Customs misses on its way from Columbia/etc - that doesn't mean that it's legal to have that, either!) Though, further talk about ambergris, its illegality (or lack thereof), and use in perfumery should be directed here. More on the topic: anyone who sells oils with " authentic ambergris " automatically goes on my sketchy list -- either they're lying (or if you prefer, misrepresenting their products) or at the very least, they're breaking the spirit of the law (if not the law itself). Given the prices of most e-tailers that claim " authentic ambergris " that I've run into, I tend to believe it's the former (because if it's the latter, they're either using trivial amounts of it, using very poor quality, or trying to drive themselves out of business by vastly underpricing their products). " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 i know i'm coming in here mid-stream, but i got the feeling that the subject of the legality of buying and selling ambergris has been raised again? all anyone would have to do is call Inspector Holmes (a supervisor) at U.S Fish & Wildlife – Import Enforcement – 650-876-9078 According to a conversation i had with her (in this group's files), they are the only department that has any say in the legal issues, and ambergris was taken off the " illegal " list some years ago. as to ebay sellers, not long ago i did a search and came up with a person selling " authentic " ambergris oil, and using a picture taken in my shop (they downloaded it from either wikipedia or google images). imagine my surprise! i did not know it, but a customer had taken a picture, and posted it to wikipedia's entry on ambergris. i contacted the seller and the picture was removed from her ebay listing. i guess this happens a lot. i have learned that there are quite a number of ambergris substitutes that have been developed that are molecules that exist in true ambergris. if a seller takes Cetalox (or whatever) and dilutes it in alcohol or oil and says that it's " natural " (because it is the same molecule, but derived from a different source), then people could possibly be misled. -linda The Perfumer's Apprentice www.perfumersapprentice.com >The fact that Customs doesn't necessarily catch it > inbound doesn't make it legal - they really tend to focus on more > deleterious things (for instance, when I came in fron a semester in > France, they were much more concerned as to whether or not I'd been > playing in agricultural areas with hoof and mouth or went to > Amsterdam than whether or not I exceeded my wine and spirits > allotment). (And think about the amount of heroin and coke that > Customs misses on its way from Columbia/etc - that doesn't mean that > it's legal to have that, either!) Though, further talk about > ambergris, its illegality (or lack thereof), and use in perfumery > should be directed here. > > > More on the topic: anyone who sells oils with " authentic ambergris " > automatically goes on my sketchy list -- either they're lying (or if > you prefer, misrepresenting their products) or at the very least, > they're breaking the spirit of the law (if not the law itself). Given > the prices of most e-tailers that claim " authentic ambergris " that > I've run into, I tend to believe it's the former (because if it's the > latter, they're either using trivial amounts of it, using very poor > quality, or trying to drive themselves out of business by vastly > underpricing their products). " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 " s " <lindaan@...> ha scritto > i know i'm coming in here mid-stream, but i got the feeling > that the subject of the legality of buying and selling ambergris > has been raised again? > > all anyone would have to do is call > Inspector Holmes (a supervisor) at U.S Fish & Wildlife – Import > Enforcement – 650-876-9078 > > According to a conversation i had with her (in this group's files), > they are the only department > that has any say in the legal issues, > and ambergris was taken off the " illegal " list some years ago. > > as to ebay sellers, not long ago i did a search and came up with > a person selling " authentic " ambergris oil, and using a picture > taken in my shop (they downloaded it from either wikipedia or google > images). imagine my surprise! i did not know it, but a customer > had taken a picture, and posted it to wikipedia's entry > on ambergris. i contacted the seller and the picture was removed from > her ebay listing. i guess this happens a lot. > > i have learned that there are quite a number of ambergris substitutes > that have been developed that are molecules that exist in true > ambergris. if a seller takes Cetalox (or whatever) and dilutes it in > alcohol or oil and says that it's " natural " (because it is the same > molecule, but derived from a different source), then people could > possibly be misled. > > > -linda > The Perfumer's Apprentice > www.perfumersapprentice.com > Ciao , nice to have your expertise and knowledge online. I shall keep your answer as a conclusive answer to forward to inqiries from american residents. As for your mention of fake ambergris sold online, I have myself received recently from a group member who bought it, a sample of " Ambergris tincture " that was just plain Cetalox from the firmenish compagny, diluted in alcohol. By nose I can assure you that this molecule is not present in Ambergris, although it may have some similarity in its structure. The smell to me, as it would be to a somelier's nose (one used to the best millesimes) is definitly anthypatic, rather horrible, ad smells like some cheat intimate deodorant. But I admit that my nose has been spoiled by many years of exclusive use of the best natural raw materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Salaam <salaam@...> wrote: " s " ha scritto > i know>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > i have learned that there are quite a number of ambergris substitutes > that have been developed that are molecules that exist in true > ambergris. if a seller takes Cetalox (or whatever) and dilutes it in > alcohol or oil and says that it's " natural " (because it is the same > molecule, but derived from a different source), then people could > possibly be misled. > > > -linda > The Perfumer's Apprentice > www.perfumersapprentice.com > Ciao , nice to have your expertise and knowledge online. I shall keep your answer as a conclusive answer to forward to inqiries from american residents. As for your mention of fake ambergris sold online, I have myself received But I admit that my nose has been spoiled by many years of exclusive use of the best natural raw materials. ciao all Thanks for such great information regarding ambergris and possible adulterants substituting for a natural. Salaams oils are first class...... I have his ambergris, sandalwood , Fennel (beautiful).....You can check my blogspot for these descriptions... Janitas Attar http://www.janita'attars.blogspot.com (sandalwood) The project http://www.flowersofmyddfaiproject.blogspot.com (fennel) I still have a few to go which is the frankincense and especially the lavender pays.... that is just georgeous and brings back memories as a child..... it is exactly the lavender I remember in every note and nuance. Quite extraordinary.. I have built up quite a collection of lavenders and it is def moved into first place from the hampshire lavender co as traditional beautiful smelling lavender.... with Seville now in there as well....of my top three......favourites. --------------------------------- Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 At 12:14 PM 3/16/2007, you wrote: >i know i'm coming in here mid-stream, but i got the feeling >that the subject of the legality of buying and selling ambergris >has been raised again? > >all anyone would have to do is call >Inspector Holmes (a supervisor) at U.S Fish & Wildlife Import >Enforcement 650-876-9078 > >According to a conversation i had with her (in this group's files), >they are the only department >that has any say in the legal issues, >and ambergris was taken off the " illegal " list some years ago. Hi : Glad to see you helping out with this ongoing misinformation correction. I found the source of the bad info Gigi got, it was from a rather imperious moderator on a forum devoted to a cult of synth perfumes, and she just wouldn't have anyone challenge her. It's mostly populated by fans of the perfume, not perfumers, so there was no one there to offer their opinion. Gigi is rather new to it all, so that's why she was searching for the correct information, and we trust your source and how you dug deep for the information. >i have learned that there are quite a number of ambergris substitutes >that have been developed that are molecules that exist in true >ambergris. if a seller takes Cetalox (or whatever) and dilutes it in >alcohol or oil and says that it's " natural " (because it is the same >molecule, but derived from a different source), then people could >possibly be misled. But they all smell so blah and fake, Cetalox and the like. Nothing like the sublime beauty of real ambergris. I'll stick with the natural, thank you ;-) Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://ArtisanNaturalPerfumers.org Natural Perfumers Community Group / Natural Perfumery Blog http://AnyasGarden.Blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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