Amouage gold

[Guest guest]

--- helenae02 <helenae@...> wrote:

> I just made a blend based on the description of

> Amouage Gold just for

> the exercise of it. What I mostly want to know is...

> does the civet and

> musk bases come across strongly before the drydown?

>

> I simply omited the civet, and added a tiny bit of

> real musk, since the

> rest of the blend was so darn expensive anyway. Is

> the civet noticeable

> in Amouage?

>

> I figured that since the entire point of the blend

> was the Arabian

> frankinsense, that was going to be the focus, so I

> went heavy on that.

> But so far, I have way overdone the jasmine

> absolute, so have to double

> up everythin else to compensate.

>

> I think my blend smells exactly like the

> descriptions I've seen, and I

> want to get as close to it as I can by description

> before I smell the

> real thing.

>

> Thanks:).

>

Hi Helen,

It's nice to hear from you again. I think you might

have more success with a question like this on the

Perfume of Life forum. I think they are in our links

section or you can google them easily. They are the

serious perfumistas and they can give info on all

kinds of classic formulas. An idea for a civet-like

note would be Africa stone tincture which Mandy Aftel

sells and which she describes as a cross between civet

and musk (I think that's what she said-- check it out

to make sure). I am not at all familiar with civet or

musk and don't even want to be because I have no

stomach for cruelty at all. I am happy with

cruelty-free alternatives. I know you have mentioned

that you feel the same way so you might want to try

the Africa Stone if you haven't already.

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[Guest guest]

> Hi Helen,

> It's nice to hear from you again. I think you might

> have more success with a question like this on the

> Perfume of Life forum. I think they are in our links

> section or you can google them easily. They are the

> serious perfumistas and they can give info on all

> kinds of classic formulas. >

Thanks .

I have been there and while they love to talk about perfumes, I have

yet to see one post about blending them. I don't want to know what

someone else thinks a perfume smells like, if I want it, I buy it. I

want to know how the perfumers created certain scent effects, and to

figure out how I can create a similar effect from the descriptions

alone.

Amouage is not the 'typical' commercial perfume. The name comes from

ancient Arabia, with a five thousand year history of the finest

perfumes. I am not sure if Amouage was one of the names of an ancient

perfume (books seem to indicate it was), or if the Guy

perfume, " the most precious perfume ever created " invented the name

as well. Translated into English, it means 'waves of emotion'.

Here's a site with a bit more information:

http://www.soukofoman.com/noname3.html

If you do a search on Amouage, you will get an eyeful... the reviews

and blogs about it are most interesting as well.

Amouage Gold in either case, was Guy 's 'life work' in

perfumery. This is the guy who created many of Hermes scents,

including Caleche, Equipage, Gucci, Madam Rochas, Monsieur Rochas,

which are all classics.

In his words: " In my kind of work, " says , " you always have a

dream of creating the perfume, the one in which you are given free

rein to use all the essences of your experience, your thought and

imagination, no matter how expensive "

His opportunity came when he was asked by an Omani company to create

a perfume " for people who didn't have to ask the price " The only

condition was that it contain frankincense.

I'm not interested in copying his life's work. I'm interested in

creating a scent that is my interpretation of his life's work (and he

is the perfumer I would say I most admire in the world), based on the

descriptions of it. That's why I haven't bought Amouage yet, and why

I don't even want to smell it til I'm done.

I just want to know what subs for civet:).

[Guest guest]

I had the opportunity once long long ago to smell very

old civet paste; I was absolutely flabbergasted to

note that in addition to the funky notes it had an

almost...floral...aspect to it. Velvety and luscious

and almost indescribable. Really divine.

In smelling the Africa Stone Tincture, I find that it

does smell more like Castoreum than Civet, though

there is a tiny hint of the funk of civet to it,

though without the amazing floral note I smelled with

the antique civet paste.

Salaam's right - the Africa Stone Tincture goes very

well with osmanthus.

It smells...naughty.

Alfred

in San Francisco

redolent of vegemusc today

[Guest guest]

--- helenae02 <helenae@...> wrote:

>

> Amouage costs $395 for 50 ml, and if you want the

> 4oz size, it's

> $5,000 per bottle(with the pretty 24K gold bottle

> with real jewels).

> The reason for the pricey is because it's all EO,

> and the most

> expensive ones at that.

>

> This isn't a synthetic perfume from everything I've

> read, so I'm not

> trying to make an EO blend from a synthetic, I'm

> trying to make a

> 100% EO blend based on the description of a 100% EO

> blend.

>

> I don't like synthetics either, and you can come

> real close, if not

> exactly, using real EO to sub for many of the

> classic perfumes.

This is probably true with some of the classics since

they tend to be lighter on the synths.

I checked out your link and the perfume really does

sound impressive. But the claim that it is 100%

natural sounds very suspicious to me. The notes

include lily of the valley, peach, and apricot and

while some of our ingenious natural perfumers here

have discovered ways to include those notes naturally

using tinctures, I have my doubts about Amouage Gold

being natural. Still, I am very interested in trying

it and would love to hear how your impressionistic

version of it turns out!

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[Guest guest]

> Er, hate to break it to you Helen, but Amouage says on

> their own website that, at the very least, the " musk,

> civet, and ambergris " are 100% synthetic.

>

> -Patty

Well yes, but I want to know a sub for civet because I don't want to

use sythetic. The sale of ambergris is banned in the US, so I would

assume ambergris products are also, and the musk deer is an endangered

species. They can't use them, due to questionable legality, let alone

the animal rights issue. Because they make a special note about how the

illegal or morally questionable substances are synthetic, my assumption

is that the rest are all authentic. Sorry I didn't clarify.

It's very possible to find a sub for synthetic civet, ambergris and

musk, by simply using the real thing. I was just hoping to find a sub

for the civet without using the real thing.

[Guest guest]

>snip

>Helenae wrote

>Hi . You can simulate or get really close to fruits with EO

>fairly easily. There are a few EO that when blended give you a very

>strong fruit 'feel' if not the actual fruit, and other EO that blend

>to give other effects that have nothing to do with what is used.

>

>I have my blending table set up with 10% and 5% dilutions, so

>everytime I get an idea, I can go complete it in seconds, and be able

>to smell it in the 'finished' dilution instantly. If I think of a

>potential formula, I can finish it in 30 seconds flat, then let it

>sit 24 hours to settle out the smell. I don't need to work it out on

>paper first, I can go sit and do it, and if it's close but no cigar,

>I pour it out and redo it. It's a bit expensive, but it saves me my

>most precious commodity, time.

>

Helenae,

What method is it that you are using. I am intrigue. Save money and no

rinsing out of droppers. I like the sound of that. Would you mind

elaborating for me?

I have very often tried to re-create a commercial blend but so far have

failed miserably. Also can you tell me what EOs would mimic raspberry fruit

scent? or cucumber melon

thanks

Poh Yee

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[Guest guest]

> Helenae,

>

> What method is it that you are using. I am intrigue. Save money and

no

> rinsing out of droppers. I like the sound of that. Would you mind

> elaborating for me?

>

> I have very often tried to re-create a commercial blend but so far

have

> failed miserably. Also can you tell me what EOs would mimic

raspberry fruit

> scent? or cucumber melon

>

> thanks

>

> Poh Yee

Poh Yee, I have written this reply 2x only to lose the note 2x (1x

when I accidentally hit the 'back' button on my uselessly

overbuttoned mouse, 1x when my dog hit the 'reset' button on my

computer and rebooted me mid-typing). I think this note is jinxed...

so I wrote it out in shorthand (probably more readable anyway) and

are going to PASTE it here!!! LOL!

Hi Poh Yee:).

I use a very simple dilution method.

Tools:

the same plastic pipettes that are exactly 80 drops (the drop sizes

are the same regardless of material)

1/2 oz glass dropper bottles and ground glass bottles with glass

droppers inside (if I were to do it again, I'd use all dropper

bottles)

Dilution:

2.5% for oakmoss, cinnamon, clove (very strong smelling and

sensitizing potential EO/absolutes)

5% for very strong smelling, slightly sensitizing EO

10% for everything else

r:

Fractionated coconut oil

2.5% dilution = 1/4 ml (20 drops) EO + 9 3/4 ml FCO (fractionated

coconut oil)

5% dilution = 1/2 ml (40 drops) EO + 9 1/2 ml FCO

10% dilution = 1 ml (80 drops) EO + 9 ml FCO

Yield: 800 drops per bottle, or 800 parts for use in blending, at

a 'cost' of 20-80 drops EO/absolute per bottle.

Pros:

1. the scent stays true to the EO because there is virtually no added

scent to the FCO

2. no loss from evaporation of alcohol to mess up the % of final

blend conversion

3. no sensitivity issues to skin from spillage, leakage, etc.

4. no cleanup or prep work to commence blending except turning on my

laptop for notes

5. the scent is true to the final version, plus alcohol smell

6. fast blending, you can get as many blends made as you can think of

them and record your data

7. the main bottles of EO can sit snugly under a nitrogen/argon

blanket in the fridge undisturbed.

8. If an unused dilution oxidizes, resinates, or gets contaminated, I

throw out the whole dilution... losing 20-80 drops, and remix a new

dilution batch. Throwing out many main bottles to refresh can get

very expensive.

9. No more need to open the main EO bottles til I am ready to make a

final blend or refill 800 blendable parts in the dilution bottles.

10. no loss of rubber dropper tops or contamination from rotting

droppers since nothing is higher than a 10% concentration.

I blend in the cheap glass 2ml vials (can see the clouding), throw a

label on it and move on to the next one so the scent can meld for 24

hours. No delay, no alcohol melding to wait on to smell what I just

did. Very little storage needs for the finished blend tests, a small

paper or plastic cup works fine and holds almost 2 dozen experiments,

labeled, comfortably.

What doesn't work, I pour out after recording the data, and stick the

empties in the dishwasher small item compartment for

cleaning/sterilizing once I get a pile of them.

Cons:

none I can think of, it's pretty efficient.

I use a drawer system, which is a wooden paper cabinet that fits my

EO's exactly to the tops rather than an organ to save space. It sits

right under my table. Each drawer is categorized by Floral,

Spices/Resins, Herbs, Citrus (my categories based on quantities I

have). When I am blending, I pull an entire drawer out, use it and

stick it back for another drawer. This way I can fit whatever I want

on my table, there's no messy except my one laptop.

Rasberry and cucumber melon... hrm. I haven't completed either one,

with no intention to do cucumber melon.

Here's the guess, since I have no test results for either. Rasberry

should be pretty easy, my guess for a starter on this would be davana

(any berry), coriander, sage, bergamot, rosemary (very heavy on the

rosemary and bergamot, very light on the davana). That's a basic

workable blend for a rain/ozoney, plus the berry, so you'll have to

do your own tweaking.

Cucumber melon... I'd start out trying: coriander, sage, eucalyptus,

fennel, bergamot, rosemary (very heavy on the rosemary and bergamot).

I haven't done these, but you should get close by tweaking these

combos. EO combos often smell NOTHING like you'd expect them to when

blended in some cases.

Now keep in mind, these are educated guesses based on what I already

know... but they are not necessarily the right direction. Maybe I'll

run some tests tonite or tomorrow if I have the time.

If you are doing a dilution blending method, it will cost you roughly

20 drops of DILUTION to test each blend combo, which will amount to 2

drops average EO per test. Very cost effective and fast. I would NOT

be doing this by opening and closing full sized bottles that are

being exposed to oxygen each time you open the bottle, especially

since these combos are all herby oxidizer EO types with relatively

short shelf lives.

To start the above test, I would do 1 drop of each one I listed and

smell it (if you do 10% dilutions, your nose will not wear out very

fast at all, so you can blend for 8 hour stretches if you want). Add

more bergamot and rosemary (I know rosemary smells thick and herby...

but with citrusy or lavendery EO, it does something very miraculous)

til you start approaching something sort of ozoney. Set it aside for

24 hours, and start another one with a different proportion or test

another herb (roman chamomile does remarkable things too in a blend)

in a close proximity.

Probably before you've spent $1, you'll have at least 1 workable

scent, accord, base, whatever you want to call it. It's faster than

you think so long as you can clearly recall what your goal smells

like.

Hope that helps:).

[Guest guest]

>snip

>Helenae wrote

>I use a drawer system, which is a wooden paper cabinet that fits my

>EO's exactly to the tops rather than an organ to save space. It sits

>right under my table. Each drawer is categorized by Floral,

>Spices/Resins, Herbs, Citrus (my categories based on quantities I

>have). When I am blending, I pull an entire drawer out, use it and

>stick it back for another drawer. This way I can fit whatever I want

>on my table, there's no messy except my one laptop.

>

>snip

>Here's the guess, since I have no test results for either. Rasberry

>should be pretty easy, my guess for a starter on this would be davana

>(any berry), coriander, sage, bergamot, rosemary (very heavy on the

>rosemary and bergamot, very light on the davana). That's a basic

>workable blend for a rain/ozoney, plus the berry, so you'll have to

>do your own tweaking.

>

>Cucumber melon... I'd start out trying: coriander, sage, eucalyptus,

>fennel, bergamot, rosemary (very heavy on the rosemary and bergamot).

>I haven't done these, but you should get close by tweaking these

>combos. EO combos often smell NOTHING like you'd expect them to when

>blended in some cases.

>

>Now keep in mind, these are educated guesses based on what I already

>know... but they are not necessarily the right direction. Maybe I'll

>run some tests tonite or tomorrow if I have the time.

>

>snip

>To start the above test, I would do 1 drop of each one I listed and

>smell it (if you do 10% dilutions, your nose will not wear out very

>fast at all, so you can blend for 8 hour stretches if you want). Add

>more bergamot and rosemary (I know rosemary smells thick and herby...

>but with citrusy or lavendery EO, it does something very miraculous)

>til you start approaching something sort of ozoney. Set it aside for

>24 hours, and start another one with a different proportion or test

>another herb (roman chamomile does remarkable things too in a blend)

>in a close proximity.

>

Good morning Helenae. Thanks for taking time to post this. Much appreciated.

I read thru your post very several times and have lots of questions to ask.

I need to read it over many many more times, as I am slow and want to

understand as much as I can before asking.

Your dog sounds very interesting. I think he/she wants to do a posting too

)

Thanks again for sharing.

Poh Yee

ps: you are so efficient and disciplined. As for me, I write on pieces of

paper and sometimes can't even remember that I have written it on a piece of

paper! I am hoping to tincture some pandanus leaves when I get my plant, if

successful will send you some. It's going to be a qtr pot so I hope it will

grow quickly for me to tincture. To me the civet scent smells very pandanus

- which is floraly sweet and aromatic. Perhaps if someone who have smelled

it can confirm this.

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[Guest guest]

>snip

>Helenae wrote

>I use a drawer system, which is a wooden paper cabinet that fits my

>EO's exactly to the tops rather than an organ to save space. It sits

>right under my table. Each drawer is categorized by Floral,

>Spices/Resins, Herbs, Citrus (my categories based on quantities I

>have). When I am blending, I pull an entire drawer out, use it and

>stick it back for another drawer. This way I can fit whatever I want

>on my table, there's no messy except my one laptop.

>

>snip

>Here's the guess, since I have no test results for either. Rasberry

>should be pretty easy, my guess for a starter on this would be davana

>(any berry), coriander, sage, bergamot, rosemary (very heavy on the

>rosemary and bergamot, very light on the davana). That's a basic

>workable blend for a rain/ozoney, plus the berry, so you'll have to

>do your own tweaking.

>

>Cucumber melon... I'd start out trying: coriander, sage, eucalyptus,

>fennel, bergamot, rosemary (very heavy on the rosemary and bergamot).

>I haven't done these, but you should get close by tweaking these

>combos. EO combos often smell NOTHING like you'd expect them to when

>blended in some cases.

>

>Now keep in mind, these are educated guesses based on what I already

>know... but they are not necessarily the right direction. Maybe I'll

>run some tests tonite or tomorrow if I have the time.

>

>snip

>To start the above test, I would do 1 drop of each one I listed and

>smell it (if you do 10% dilutions, your nose will not wear out very

>fast at all, so you can blend for 8 hour stretches if you want). Add

>more bergamot and rosemary (I know rosemary smells thick and herby...

>but with citrusy or lavendery EO, it does something very miraculous)

>til you start approaching something sort of ozoney. Set it aside for

>24 hours, and start another one with a different proportion or test

>another herb (roman chamomile does remarkable things too in a blend)

>in a close proximity.

>

Good morning Helenae. Thanks for taking time to post this. Much appreciated.

I read thru your post very several times and have lots of questions to ask.

I need to read it over many many more times, as I am slow and want to

understand as much as I can before asking.

Your dog sounds very interesting. I think he/she wants to do a posting too

)

Thanks again for sharing.

Poh Yee

ps: you are so efficient and disciplined. As for me, I write on pieces of

paper and sometimes can't even remember that I have written it on a piece of

paper! I am hoping to tincture some pandanus leaves when I get my plant, if

successful will send you some. It's going to be a qtr pot so I hope it will

grow quickly for me to tincture. To me the civet scent smells very pandanus

- which is floraly sweet and aromatic. Perhaps if someone who have smelled

it can confirm this.

_________________________________________________________________

From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the

Academy Awards®

http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1

[Guest guest]

Snipped to save BW

> I'm not interested in copying his life's work. I'm interested in

> creating a scent that is my interpretation of his life's work (and he

> is the perfumer I would say I most admire in the world), based on the

> descriptions of it. That's why I haven't bought Amouage yet, and why

> I don't even want to smell it til I'm done.

>

> I just want to know what subs for civet:).

>

Hi Helen,

I am just catching up on lost time I have been sick for a week! But I

just had to ask the question.

Especially seen as I go by my nose rather than what I read or hear or

whatever. The perfume " Amouage " sounds amazing! And Natural you say as

well, so I am going to have to try to find some. But what I am

wondering is this, why do you want to make a perfume that you haven't

smelled yet? and how can you even start if you haven't smelled it?

And more importantly how can you even know you are " done " unless you

have smelled the real thing? Isn't that a bit like copying a

masterpiece you have never laid eyes on?

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

Snipped to save BW

> I'm not interested in copying his life's work. I'm interested in

> creating a scent that is my interpretation of his life's work (and he

> is the perfumer I would say I most admire in the world), based on the

> descriptions of it. That's why I haven't bought Amouage yet, and why

> I don't even want to smell it til I'm done.

>

> I just want to know what subs for civet:).

>

Hi Helen,

I am just catching up on lost time I have been sick for a week! But I

just had to ask the question.

Especially seen as I go by my nose rather than what I read or hear or

whatever. The perfume " Amouage " sounds amazing! And Natural you say as

well, so I am going to have to try to find some. But what I am

wondering is this, why do you want to make a perfume that you haven't

smelled yet? and how can you even start if you haven't smelled it?

And more importantly how can you even know you are " done " unless you

have smelled the real thing? Isn't that a bit like copying a

masterpiece you have never laid eyes on?

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

At 12:32 AM 2/1/2007, you wrote:

>I use a very simple dilution method.

>Tools:

>the same plastic pipettes that are exactly 80 drops (the drop sizes

>are the same regardless of material)

>1/2 oz glass dropper bottles and ground glass bottles with glass

>droppers inside (if I were to do it again, I'd use all dropper

>bottles)

Hi Helen:

This is a creative, money and time and aromatic-saving method you've

shared with us. I know that many schools teach with these diluted

essences, but I've never seen it laid out so well before, nor shared

with this group. If you wouldn't mind editing it a bit to remove the

personal stuff, it would be great to be uploaded to the Files section.

Now, if I only had the time to dilute the 500 or so essences I have,

:-P but I am going to slowly convert over to this. I as always,

recommend http://taj-perfumes.com for inexpensive bottles, and they

have flat-rate shipping. I may start with dram bottles, or quarter

ounces, depends. They dropper bottles are very cheap, and you might

be able to link up with a supply house that has rubber stopper

replacements for them, saving even more money when they do rot out,

and they probably will, given time.

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

[Guest guest]

At 12:32 AM 2/1/2007, you wrote:

>I use a very simple dilution method.

>Tools:

>the same plastic pipettes that are exactly 80 drops (the drop sizes

>are the same regardless of material)

>1/2 oz glass dropper bottles and ground glass bottles with glass

>droppers inside (if I were to do it again, I'd use all dropper

>bottles)

Hi Helen:

This is a creative, money and time and aromatic-saving method you've

shared with us. I know that many schools teach with these diluted

essences, but I've never seen it laid out so well before, nor shared

with this group. If you wouldn't mind editing it a bit to remove the

personal stuff, it would be great to be uploaded to the Files section.

Now, if I only had the time to dilute the 500 or so essences I have,

:-P but I am going to slowly convert over to this. I as always,

recommend http://taj-perfumes.com for inexpensive bottles, and they

have flat-rate shipping. I may start with dram bottles, or quarter

ounces, depends. They dropper bottles are very cheap, and you might

be able to link up with a supply house that has rubber stopper

replacements for them, saving even more money when they do rot out,

and they probably will, given time.

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

[Guest guest]

At 01:59 PM 2/1/2007, you wrote:

>Snipped to save BW

> > I'm not interested in copying his life's work. I'm interested in

> > creating a scent that is my interpretation of his life's work (and he

> > is the perfumer I would say I most admire in the world), based on the

> > descriptions of it. That's why I haven't bought Amouage yet, and why

> > I don't even want to smell it til I'm done.

> >

> > I just want to know what subs for civet:).

> >

>

>Hi Helen,

>

>I am just catching up on lost time I have been sick for a week! But I

>just had to ask the question.

>Especially seen as I go by my nose rather than what I read or hear or

>whatever. The perfume " Amouage " sounds amazing! And Natural you say as

>well, so I am going to have to try to find some. But what I am

>wondering is this, why do you want to make a perfume that you haven't

>smelled yet? and how can you even start if you haven't smelled it?

>And more importantly how can you even know you are " done " unless you

>have smelled the real thing? Isn't that a bit like copying a

>masterpiece you have never laid eyes on?

>

>Ruth

>http://www.whitewitch.ie

Ruth, I think Helen is very familiar with all of his other work,

hence her quest, Must say I agree, however, that without knowing the

percentages of each ingredient, and whether or not he left something

out of the description of the notes (which many, many perfumers do,

to throw you off the train), Helen may be far afield. There was a

thread on POL some time back about obtaining free samples of Amouage,

and I think I'll wander over there and try, since I'm now intrigued!

Then, when Helen gets done, I'll ask her for a sample and I'll

compare the two.

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

[Guest guest]

> >just had to ask the question.

> >Especially seen as I go by my nose rather than what I read or hear

or

> >whatever. The perfume " Amouage " sounds amazing! And Natural you

say as

> >well, so I am going to have to try to find some. But what I am

> >wondering is this, why do you want to make a perfume that you

haven't

> >smelled yet? and how can you even start if you haven't smelled it?

> >And more importantly how can you even know you are " done " unless

you

> >have smelled the real thing? Isn't that a bit like copying a

> >masterpiece you have never laid eyes on?

> >

> >Ruth

> >http://www.whitewitch.ie

Hi Ruth:).

It does sound strange, even when I think about it. What I started out

doing was to see if I could capture the verbal description of

something in a scent. I had to have something to test against that

was testable (after the fact), and because I wanted to make it all

natural, I had to find a perfume that was either all natural, or so

close to all natural that it may as well be all natural (they admit

the animal scents are not all natural.. but given the animal cruelty

movements, they have to do that these days).

Amouage was also mentioned in an article I had read a while ago...

not as Guy 's ultimate masterpiece, but as the ultimate

expression of Arabic perfumery, a tradition that went back 5000

years, but recently (um centuries, but what's a few hundred in a few

thousand) supplanted by France.

I cannot find other references to it in historical books, so I don't

know if this name was coined for this perfume only, or is more

ancient. Guy made this perfume via commission by the Sultan of

Oman, who wanted to revive, or at least revisit, the fame of Arabia's

perfumery past. Because Oman is a producer of the finest silver

frankinsense in the world (so they say), the focus of this perfume is

frankincense. As for the rest, Guy got complete artistic

license to create anything he wanted out of anything he wanted,

apparently something rare in commercial perfumery.

Am I close? I don't know yet. What made me think I could do this on

descriptions? Hubris and curiosity.

Here is the description: " Amouage Gold

floral and fruity fragrance with top notes of rose, jasmine and lily-

of-the-valley mingled with apricot, lime and peach.

These are underlaid by middle notes of silver frankincense, myrrh,

rock rose flower, patchouli, orris and sandalwood.

Exceptional lasting power is given through bottom notes of ambergris,

civet and musk. "

That's the description I'm shooting for. I'm trying to imagine, based

on what I know of 's perfumes, what he might use to accomplish

this. I know won't be dead on without smelling it. Well, I won't be

dead on with smelling it. I just want to see if I can get in the

ballpark without smelling it.

I have also read every review of Amouage on the net that I could

find... more descriptions. If you go to the site for Amouage

(www.amouage.com), then click the little arrow on the side of the

menu bar, it will take you through a slideshow that includes the

actual EO basis, which are: neroli, blue chamomile, coriander,

tuberrose, bergamot, orris, ambergris, jasmine, labdanum, rose,

vanilla, myrrh, vetiver, geranium, frankensense, ylang, sandalwood,

patchouli. Not very rare or very hard, except perhaps for the

varietal differences in the EO. I happen to have 30+ year old

patchouli also (but not sandalwood), it's as smooth as sable.

I'm sure that it's not ALL the EO he used, but that is a good basis

for blending something *I* like (and hopefully what he would like

too, because I like his perfumes).

It states that the perfume is natural (except for the animals),

including a little chart of EO. If he were using chems, there'd be no

point to showing his little map of EO on the site, including the

different nations they come from. And there you have it. My little

exercise in making something heavily oriental, with a focus on

frankinsense, with the core EO given, and the description as a guide

to filling in the rest. Then, I'll see if it was worth doing:).

> Ruth, I think Helen is very familiar with all of his other work,

> hence her quest, Must say I agree, however, that without knowing

the

> percentages of each ingredient, and whether or not he left

something

> out of the description of the notes (which many, many perfumers do,

> to throw you off the train), Helen may be far afield. There was a

> thread on POL some time back about obtaining free samples of

Amouage,

> and I think I'll wander over there and try, since I'm now

intrigued!

> Then, when Helen gets done, I'll ask her for a sample and I'll

> compare the two.

>

>

> Anya McCoy

Anya, when I'm done (civet is thwarting me atm), I will send you a

sample. I would love a review anyway from someone who really knows

natural perfumery.

Helen

[Guest guest]

Dear Helen

Whatever this personal journey of yours takes you and all your research and

reading you will encapsulate something rather beautiful....... in whatever form

it takes.

look forward to hearing more about it.....

Janita

---------------------------------

New is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at

the Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

[Guest guest]

> Hi Helen:

> This is a creative, money and time and aromatic-saving method

you've

> shared with us. I know that many schools teach with these diluted

> essences, but I've never seen it laid out so well before, nor

shared

> with this group. If you wouldn't mind editing it a bit to remove

the

> personal stuff, it would be great to be uploaded to the Files

section.

>

> Now, if I only had the time to dilute the 500 or so essences I

have,

> :-P but I am going to slowly convert over to this. I as always,

> recommend http://taj-perfumes.com for inexpensive bottles, and they

> have flat-rate shipping. I may start with dram bottles, or quarter

> ounces, depends. They dropper bottles are very cheap, and you might

> be able to link up with a supply house that has rubber stopper

> replacements for them, saving even more money when they do rot out,

> and they probably will, given time.

>

>

> Anya McCoy

Thanks Anya:). I will add the file later tonite, after dinner. I'm

glad you like it too.

I wanted to also mention that it makes the EO blenders a lot safer

around children and pets (since your bottles are all in the fridge),

as well as furniture and carpeting too.

Also, no more nose exhaustion, or blending room toxicity... the

sillage from carrier oils are very close to the skin, so there is

less smell after a whole day's blending in your room than there would

be if you sat someone there wearing a carrier oil 10% perfume. It's

much better safety from sensitivity, both nasal and skin all around.

I know you love oakmoss... at a 2.5% dilution, if you get it all over

yourself, a few drops rose otto will blend right in and drop it to

1%. No more running to the bathroom to wash your hands, can keep on

blending, it's a real time saver once it's set up:).

Nice link, they have cheaper vials!

Helen

[Guest guest]

>SNIP:

>But what I am

>wondering is this, why do you want to make a perfume that you

>haven't smelled yet? and how can you even start if you haven't

>smelled it? And more importantly how can you even know you are " done "

>unless you have smelled the real thing? Isn't that a bit like copying

>a masterpiece you have never laid eyes on?

Helen Writes:

> What I started out

> doing was to see if I could capture the verbal description of

> something in a scent. I had to have something to test against that

> was testable (after the fact), and because I wanted to make it all

> natural, I had to find a perfume that was either all natural, or so

> close to all natural that it may as well be all natural

> SNIP SNIP

> Here is the description: " Amouage Gold

> floral and fruity fragrance with top notes of rose, jasmine and

> lily-of-the-valley mingled with apricot, lime and peach.

> These are underlaid by middle notes of silver frankincense, myrrh,

> rock rose flower, patchouli, orris and sandalwood.

> Exceptional lasting power is given through bottom notes of

>ambergris, civet and musk. "

> That's the description I'm shooting for. I'm trying to imagine,

>based on what I know of 's perfumes, what he might use to

>accomplish this. I know won't be dead on without smelling it. Well, I

>won't be dead on with smelling it. I just want to see if I can get in

>the ballpark without smelling it.

> Helen

Hi Helen,

I can see where you are coming from, I admit there have been times

when I've read the descriptions of perfumes and felt like trying to

recreate something similar.

But I do tend to operate on a sensual level, and will smell a perfume

and then pick out the individual notes with my nose. I might not be

able to name them but I will also use my nose to choose something from

my organ which I feel matches that.

It sounds as though you have quite a challenge on your hands, not only

with finding something that smells *similar* to civet, and ambergris,

but also in finding something natural that smells like peach, lily of

the valley and apricot.

It also sounds as if you know this perfumer style very well. Are you

sure this " Amouage " is all natural? I am no expert by any means but it

just doesn't really sound natural at all.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear Helen

>

> Whatever this personal journey of yours takes you and all your

research and reading you will encapsulate something rather

beautiful....... in whatever form it takes.

>

> look forward to hearing more about it.....

>

> Janita

Thanks Janita:).

I will post when I'm done with it (after I figure out the civet part).

I haven't been making any blends in the last few days, figured I'd

let all the stuff I made last week sit a bit so I can go back and

smell them with less bias. Hopefully they'll all still smell great:).

Helen

[Guest guest]

:

<Tell you what, write me an email, I will send you my EO blend for the

ocean/ozone/salty air. A scent you would expect to find only in a

chemical. You test it yourself using your own EO. Then you come back

here and tell everyone what you think. Fair:)?>

I would also be very interested in this too! Could you send me it too?

goblinboy60660@...

---------------------------------

Get your own web address.

Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

[Guest guest]

At 08:34 PM 2/18/2007, you wrote:

>:

><Tell you what, write me an email, I will send you my EO blend for the

>ocean/ozone/salty air. A scent you would expect to find only in a

>chemical. You test it yourself using your own EO. Then you come back

>here and tell everyone what you think. Fair:)?>

> I would also be very interested in this too! Could you send me it too?

>

> goblinboy60660@...

Who posted this, ? I missed it. It would be appropriate for the

group, so the OP should post it here.

>

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://ArtisanNaturalPerfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

Natural Perfumery Blog http://AnyasGarden.Blogspot.com/

[Guest guest]

At 08:34 PM 2/18/2007, you wrote:

>:

><Tell you what, write me an email, I will send you my EO blend for the

>ocean/ozone/salty air. A scent you would expect to find only in a

>chemical. You test it yourself using your own EO. Then you come back

>here and tell everyone what you think. Fair:)?>

> I would also be very interested in this too! Could you send me it too?

>

> goblinboy60660@...

Who posted this, ? I missed it. It would be appropriate for the

group, so the OP should post it here.

I don't remember, Anya!

---------------------------------

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time

with the Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> :

> <Tell you what, write me an email, I will send you my EO blend for

the

> ocean/ozone/salty air.

> I would also be very interested in this too! Could you send me it

too?

>

> goblinboy60660@...

>

Me too, please!!

~Becky

nocauseinme@...

[Guest guest]

At 03:04 PM 2/19/2007, you wrote:

>At 08:34 PM 2/18/2007, you wrote:

>

> >:

> ><Tell you what, write me an email, I will send you my EO blend for the

> >ocean/ozone/salty air. A scent you would expect to find only in a

> >chemical. You test it yourself using your own EO. Then you come back

> >here and tell everyone what you think. Fair:)?>

> > I would also be very interested in this too! Could you send me it too?

> >

> > goblinboy60660@...

>

> Who posted this, ? I missed it. It would be appropriate for the

> group, so the OP should post it here.

>

>

>I don't remember, Anya!

>

Went to the group website and plugged the ocean/ozone/salty air

phrase in, and it was Helen!

Hey, Helen, we want/need/request the accord. ;-)

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://ArtisanNaturalPerfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

Natural Perfumery Blog http://AnyasGarden.Blogspot.com/