Re: Parfum de Jour January 11th 2007

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >

> > I see that this topic is not so popular anymore (Just judging from

> > yesterday and today). What do you folks think of expanding it to

> > include what you are working on today?

We had a power cut today...... starting at 8am and has only just come on.....

perfect for lighting candles and sorting out and preparing for 'Myddfai flowers'

(working title)

has already urged me to start a blog which I have and I can't find.....

and will have my progress (or not :-))incl with this daunting project. I have

been working on the authenticated list sectioning plants for perfume (eventually

into a formulae) and ones for the botanical drawings...... still undecided on

background colour....

Amazing how we rely on electricity!!!! Actually been very nice. Wood fire

where I have boiled the kettle and saucepan for soup and baked potatoes!! They

cooked a lot faster than I thought and the smell of baked potato really inviting

in the candle lit room and roaring fire in stove.

Lights back on and am catching up..... wearing vintage Perpetually yours and

even with the naughty linden in it smells beautiful.... I am amazed how it was

received.....my first one and at least 26 ingredients in it.....

Also gathered silk threads (pre-mordanted ) for Andie of Renaissance Dyers in

France as I promised her ages ago and have only just found them sorting out

....to post as a thankyou.

Janita

www.hayspace.co.uk

Natural perfumery travel log when I find it......

---------------------------------

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your

email personality. Take the quiz at the Championship.

[Guest guest]

Today I am working on mods. and am wearing a mod of my oil based scent

Mandalay. A ginger and spice perfume I am adding a bit more citrus

ontop, and a touch of my alpha floral bouquet to the heart. I am also

placing labels on our new boxes, and packaging up orders to be shipped

out. Just call me multi-tasker girl. I do it all. Later after we close

the shop, I will be going to the showroom in Cincinnati to pick out

the fixtures for my new bathroom, which is now a shell. Can't wait to

take the first bath in my newly refinished, antique victorian tub....

Best Zz...

Liz Zorn Perfume

http://www.lizzorn.com

[Guest guest]

>

....> Lights back on and am catching up..... wearing vintage Perpetually

yours and even with the naughty linden in it smells beautiful.... I am

amazed how it was received.....my first one and at least 26 ingredients

in it.....

>

>> Janita

> www.hayspace.co.uk

> Natural perfumery travel log when I find it......

>

Thanks for sharing the " at least 26 ingredients " - for some reason I got

the impression, that I should work with somewhere around 9, but I just

can't do it. There was a discussion on that on several occations. Seems

perfumes could include up to hundreds of ingredients, but Mandy also

advises on using less. Maybe she is only refering to the initial

concept, or experimentation of scents. Then again, Alchemy only has 9. I

have yet to make it, so I can't judge by this.

I would love to hear more about that from our pros. Personally, I find

less scents a little rough on the edges. Maybe it's just my

formulations, but I found it takes many traces of various amounts to

really make something come alive. Seems that this is true for nature,

but I'm not sure how this applies to professional perfumery. Most scent

descriptions list an average of 9 ingredients. Maybe those are the

accord descriptions?

Any thoughts on that would be much appreciated

Thanks, ne

[Guest guest]

> Thanks for sharing the " at least 26 ingredients " - for some reason I got

> the impression, that I should work with somewhere around 9, but I just

> can't do it. There was a discussion on that on several occations. Seems

> perfumes could include up to hundreds of ingredients, but Mandy also

> advises on using less. Maybe she is only refering to the initial

> concept, or experimentation of scents. Then again, Alchemy only has 9. I

> have yet to make it, so I can't judge by this.

>

> I would love to hear more about that from our pros. Personally, I find

> less scents a little rough on the edges. Maybe it's just my

> formulations, but I found it takes many traces of various amounts to

> really make something come alive. Seems that this is true for nature,

> but I'm not sure how this applies to professional perfumery. Most scent

> descriptions list an average of 9 ingredients. Maybe those are the

> accord descriptions?

>

> Any thoughts on that would be much appreciated

>

> Thanks, ne

ne,

There are many approaches to natural perfumer, and I wouldn't go by

any " rule " but rely on guidelines and experience instead.

While perfumes that contain synthetics need to include many

ingredients (sometimes tens of them, sometimes even more than a 100),

in order to be complex - natural perfumery requires less.

The reason for that is simple: the building blocks are already very

complex. So it's as if you are mixing hundreds of ingredients already,

even if you are just mixing three essences. The reason why Mandy

recommends less (9 is a very good start in my opinion, but sometimes

you can do with even less than that!) - is because if you add too many

essences, and particularly if they are not well balanced - you'll end

up with a frustrating " mud " impression. Where there is simply no

storytelling in the perfume, just a cacophony of notes, a mishmash of

olfactory existences.

The most I've ever needed to create a perfume was 20 ingredients. I

have quite a few in my line that are about that level of complexity in

terms of how many essences went in to make them.

But I can also tell you that one of my best perfumes I ever made has

only 6 elements (and I am NOT willing to tell which one LOL!).

I used to try to make my perfumes as complex as possible, and put as

many ingredients I can include to achieve my effect, but without

turning it into " mud " . My approach has now changed: I try to put the

least number of ingredients that are absolutley essential for the

composition and effect I want to achieve. The least amount of

components that will make it a " perfume " rather than just a " blend " .

Quality over quantity, if you will...

Ayala Sender

www.AyalaMoriel.com

www.SmellyBlog.com

[Guest guest]

>

....> The reason for that is simple: the building blocks are already very

> complex. So it's as if you are mixing hundreds of ingredients already,

> even if you are just mixing three essences. The reason why Mandy

> recommends less (9 is a very good start in my opinion, but sometimes

> you can do with even less than that!) - is because if you add too many

> essences, and particularly if they are not well balanced - you'll end

> up with a frustrating " mud " impression. Where there is simply no

> storytelling in the perfume, just a cacophony of notes, a mishmash of

> olfactory existences.

>

> The most I've ever needed to create a perfume was 20 ingredients. I

> have quite a few in my line that are about that level of complexity in

> terms of how many essences went in to make them.

> But I can also tell you that one of my best perfumes I ever made has

> only 6 elements (and I am NOT willing to tell which one LOL!).

>

> I used to try to make my perfumes as complex as possible, and put as

> many ingredients I can include to achieve my effect, but without

> turning it into " mud " . My approach has now changed: I try to put the

> least number of ingredients that are absolutley essential for the

> composition and effect I want to achieve. The least amount of

> components that will make it a " perfume " rather than just a " blend " .

> Quality over quantity, if you will...

>

> Ayala Sender

> www.AyalaMoriel.com

> www.SmellyBlog.com

>

Thank you very much Ayala, for sharing your expertiese. What you explain

makes perfect sense. I never plan on complex, striving for simple

formulas, because when it's time to duplicate, the sheer thought of a

gazillion bottles is a turn off for me. Then again, I'm not much into

duplicating anyway, having much more fun with creating something new.

I've been lucky I guess, not ending up with " muddy " compositions yet.

Maybe because I wasn't planing on complex, but I'm almost certain that

some ingredients get swallowed, rather then being allowed to shine

through, as intended.

Thanks again for your advice. Back to the basics...

ne

[Guest guest]

> >

SNIPWhat do you folks think of expanding it to

> > > include what you are working on today?

>SNIP

oh and I want to blend the

> three brothers (remember them?) with three sisters, how would that be

> for a marriage?

My story has a happy ending...

The Three Sisters

I have found three spinster sisters for the three brothers.

Ylang Ylang is the youngest of the three sisters. She is thoughtful,

independent and yet very feminine, she likes writing and keeps a daily

journal. She is tall and thin and wears her brown hair tied back. She

smells sexy and warm. She wears soft colors and cashmere sweaters

Rose is the eldest sister, she old fashioned and loves to cook, Rose

never wears trousers. She likes reading, embroidery and flower

arranging. Rose smells very feminine and has a full figure and dark

thick hair.

Lavender, the middle sister, is blond haired and blue eyed, she looks

like her mother. She smells of fresh soap and water and is *always*

spring cleaning. She loves the color blue and her hands are always

lovely and cool. Lavender wears white blouses with crisply ironed collars.

*Now to the match making*.

I think that Ylang Ylang would best suit the youngest brother Cepes,

he likes cooking, she doesn't, she knows how to occupy herself while

he goes on his long walks.

I think that Rose, the eldest sister will best suit Blond tobacco,

Rose can cook amazing meals while her husband reads and smokes his pipe.

I think that Oakmoss and Lavender would be a great match. Lavender can

help Oakmoss clean up his act a little and she will be well able for

his strong personality.

Well I did it, it's not finished but it's getting there.

*My* Parfum de Jour for today the 11th Jan 2007 is called " Match Made

in Heaven "

It SO works, anybody want to know whats in it???

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

>

> Well I did it, it's not finished but it's getting there.

> *My* Parfum de Jour for today the 11th Jan 2007 is called " Match Made

> in Heaven "

>

> It SO works, anybody want to know whats in it???

>

> Ruth

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

>

Ruth, I love the personification and matching - I love the story more

then the scent translation even - how about writing the story for the

perfume. Kind of like the scents for the movie " Perfume " - this could

then easily become a collection, and who knows -a movie one day...

can't wait to hear more

ne

[Guest guest]

snip

> Ruth, I love the personification and matching - I love the story more

> then the scent translation even - how about writing the story for the

> perfume. Kind of like the scents for the movie " Perfume " - this could

> then easily become a collection, and who knows -a movie one day...

>

> can't wait to hear more

>

> ne

Suzanne thanks a million, you flatter me *too* much, (I love it) but

all the stories in the world won't make a perfume good : )

I like how this has turned out so far, there's more work to do, but I

really wish I knew another " nose " who could smell my fumes and give me

some constructive criticism. I am so fed up with " that's nice " or " I

don't like that " or worse " is that sandalwood? " when there isn't a

drop of sandalwood in it.

As far as I am aware I am the only Natural Perfumer in Ireland.

Good in some ways and bad in other ways.

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Suzanne thanks a million, you flatter me *too* much, (I love it) but

> all the stories in the world won't make a perfume good : )

> I like how this has turned out so far, there's more work to do, but I

> really wish I knew another " nose " who could smell my fumes and give me

> some constructive criticism. I am so fed up with " that's nice " or " I

> don't like that " or worse " is that sandalwood? " when there isn't a

> drop of sandalwood in it.

>

> As far as I am aware I am the only Natural Perfumer in Ireland.

> Good in some ways and bad in other ways.

> Ruth

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

>

LOL, no, I don't think I flatter you too much. And no, stories don't

make good perfumes, but understanding personality of plants and oils,

DO. Why not associate them with characters. It's brilliant.

I've worked with herbs most of my life, and I have my favorites, which

are like friends to me. Not like your characters, and I haven't given

them looks, but there is communication, understanding of temperament and

character, likes and dislikes and so much more, they might as well be

people LOL I know, it sounds nuts. But I think it's this kind of

intimacy we need to reach, before we can become truly efficient.

I understand too well about the need of constructive feedback. I don't

have it either, and would so love to. That's why this group is so

addictive.

Don't feel bad about the " Sandalwood " - I had give out some perfume to

someone for Christmas. A couple to her, two for her husband, not being

sure which ones they would like. She tells me the other day how much she

loves all of them (she swiped her husband's too), but she had a hard

time deciding which to wear for..., but " went with the one with the

clove " -there was no clove.... She is also one, priding herself on her

sensitive nose..... whatever LOL

Look at it this way, you have had customers go nuts for your scents

already, so just follow your nose, and create what you like. You can

always make tiny samples you give to customers, maybe with min purchase,

or someone buying scents, and do test marketing that way. If they love

it, they'll want to buy it. Ask them for feedback. Just some ideas.

Best of luck with the story. I think it's going to work, and come

together, as the story writes itself

ne

[Guest guest]

>

........ as long as at the end of that particular journey whoever it is

for is happy and you have given them what they wanted..or you were

looking for.... .....and you have orchestrated it to the best of your

ability..... that is all one can hope for.

> Janita

> http://www.hayspace.co.uk

>

>

>

Thanks Janita,

I appreciate your input. You are correct, the end result is really what

matters. That we can be happy with it. At the same time, there is always

" better " as we increase experience and knowledge, we fine tune

intuition.

I can smell something I made years ago, still like it, but chuckle at my

ignorance. Intuition without understanding of the rules. So it worked

-lucky. Not even close to what I do today. Maybe in a few years I look

back, and chuckle again. That's growth. I have to compare it to looking

at my son's kindergarden work, through the grades. It's good to see

improvement.

Maybe there will come, or be, a point, when there is no more

improvement, only change. That's good, too.

Thanks, ne

[Guest guest]

(snipped for brevity) ( ads also snipped)

>

> ne Ayala

>

> Interesting.......whether it is 20 or 9 ingredients .... I find

after consideration of a few elements the perfume takes a mind of its

own and usually tells me what It needs.... sometimes more sometimes

dilution sometimes a nuance sometimes an augmentation sometimes a

modifier...... sometimes I am searching.... so I leave it... and come

back to it...... I listen to it.....and am thoughtful to it.....it

becomes it's own character..... no pictures just feelings, thoughts,

spirit with soul.

>

> Janita Haan

> http://www.hayspace.co.uk

>

> Yes, Janita, exactly, the spirit of the synergy will whisper to me.

Lyn Ayre

[Guest guest]

<Thanks for sharing the " at least 26 ingredients " - for some reason I got

the impression, that I should work with somewhere around 9, but I just

can't do it. There was a discussion on that on several occations. Seems

perfumes could include up to hundreds of ingredients, but Mandy also

advises on using less. Maybe she is only refering to the initial

concept, or experimentation of scents. Then again, Alchemy only has 9. I

have yet to make it, so I can't judge by this.

I would love to hear more about that from our pros. Personally, I find

less scents a little rough on the edges. Maybe it's just my

formulations, but I found it takes many traces of various amounts to

really make something come alive. Seems that this is true for nature,

but I'm not sure how this applies to professional perfumery. Most scent

descriptions list an average of 9 ingredients. Maybe those are the

accord descriptions?

Any thoughts on that would be much appreciated

Thanks, ne>

My blends seem to top out at about 13 ingredients or so(OOO SPOOKY!),

sometimes less, rarely more. Like Ayala mentioned, blends with too many

ingredients can get " muddy " and indistinct. Too much of a good thing. Trying to

" keep it simple stupid " is a big challenge for me, I either want to try this

and that new essence, or I am so in love with what my favorite essences do to a

perfume that I almost always include them(which makes many blends smell too

similar), or my imagination just keeps thinking of adding more and more,

thinking that each new addition will bring me to what Iwant to accomplish.

I've had most success with less ingredients, but not always. So there is no

hard and fast rules, exactly, but I would surely say that in this case less is

more. I've been thinking about this myself lately, after pouring over Essence

and Alchemy incessantly and noticing that all of the blends only have three

ingredients in each chord. I also noticed that in the movie

" Perfume " (which I saw last week by the way).

---------------------------------

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Why not associate them with characters. It's brilliant.

> SNIPPED

> I've worked with herbs most of my life, and I have my favorites, which

> are like friends to me. Not like your characters,

SNIPPED

> Best of luck with the story. I think it's going to work, and come

> together, as the story writes itself

>

> ne

>

Hi ne,

I took your advice, if you look over on my blog.. the story continues...

I got as far as blend no 5 last night, still more tweaking to do. It

didn't start to come together until I really got into the carachters

again, I decided to think about which couple would have met up first,

then while I stuck to the method of building from the base up, I kept

to a certain order. Anyway I have been wearing the 5th blend of " Match

Made in Heaven " all day today enjoying the various nuances, the heart

reminds me of the perfume " Charlie " I had when I was a teenager.

When my cleaner came in today I asked her to try it on. I like what

you said about getting feedback and taking it from there.

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

http://www.whitewitch.ie/natural_perfumers_journal/journal.html