skill mix

[Guest guest]

I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits.

Ann Kim Mc

at

kimmcandrew@...

or

Can you guess the film? Search Charades!

[Guest guest]

There is a view that if an ante natal visit is undertaken by a health visitor, then the new birth visit may be delegated to a staff nurse / nursery nurse.Having just reviewed our core programme (through the catalyst of Meridian!!), we stipulated that a health visitor is still required for the 2 post natal visits, at the newbirth visit and the 6-8 week post natal visit; this is such a crucial time for assessing family needs, using the knowledge, skills, etc of a health visitor.

Clare O'Riordan.

Professional Development Lead

Health Visiting and School Nursing

Berkshire East PCT

Community Services

St .Mark's Hospital

St. Mark's Road

Maidenhead

SL6 6DU

Tel: 01753 638453

e mail:clare.o'riordan@...

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Margaret ButtigiegSent: 09 December 2007 18:54 Subject: Re: skill mix

I agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new birth visit is a first assessment and as would say "an undifferentiated visit" and one where an experienced practitioner is needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans.

How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about universalism and enabling all to receive the same.

We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued.

Margaret

Re: skill mix

Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach.

Barbara Kim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote:

I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits.

Ann Kim Mc

at

kimmcandrewhotmail

or

Can you guess the film? Search Charades!

Sent from - a smarter inbox.

Recipients should be aware that all E-mails received and sent by this Authority are subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and therefore may be disclosed to a third party. The information contained in this message or any of its attachments may be privileged and confidential and intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The views expressed may not be official policy but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee any disclosure, reproduction, distribution, other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error please return it to the originator. All messages sent by this organisation are checked for viruses using the latest anti virus products. This does not and can not however guarantee that a virus has not been transmitted. Please therefore ensure that you take your own precautions for the detection and eradication of viruses.

[Guest guest]

Dear AllI am currently doing a piece of work for National Workforce Projects in collaboration with the Department of Health. I am looking for examples of integrated early childhood service delivery that incorporate the delivery of the Child Health Promotion Programme. As you will all be aware there is a statutory requirement for LA's to work with PCT's and others to deliver integrated early childhood services by April 2008 ( Childcare Act 2006). Can anybody out there help in sharing their innovative ideas for promoting child and family health that include examples of health visitors and their teams working in an integrated and collaborative way with staff from Children's Centres. In areas where there are only 'virtual' Children's Centres, how easy is it to achieve integrated working? What are the challenges and keys to success? Any advice / thoughts / information gratefully received.Many many thanks LowenhoffProject Lead - Child HealthNational Workforce ProjectsOn 10 Dec 2007, at 09:16, O'Riordan Clare wrote:There is a view that if an ante natal visit is undertaken by a health visitor, then the new birth visit may be delegated to a staff nurse / nursery nurse.Having just reviewed our core programme (through the catalyst of Meridian!!), we stipulated that a health visitor is still required for the 2 post natal visits, at the newbirth visit and the 6-8 week post natal visit; this is such a crucial time for assessing family needs, using the knowledge, skills, etc of a health visitor.Clare O'Riordan.Professional Development LeadHealth Visiting and School Nursing   Berkshire East PCTCommunity ServicesSt .Mark's HospitalSt. Mark's RoadMaidenheadSL6 6DU Tel: 01753 638453 e mail:clare.o'riordanberkshire (DOT) nhs.uk From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Margaret ButtigiegSent: 09 December 2007 18:54 Subject: Re: skill mixI agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new birth visit is a first assessment and as would say "an undifferentiated visit" and one where an experienced practitioner is needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans. How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about universalism and enabling all to receive the same. We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued. Margaret Re: skill mixWhilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach.Barbara Kim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote:I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits.Ann Kim Mcatkimmcandrewhotmailor  Can you guess the film? Search Charades!Sent from - a smarter inbox. Recipients should be aware that all E-mails received and sent by this Authority are subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and therefore may be disclosed to a third party. The information contained in this message or any of its attachments may be privileged and confidential and intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The views expressed may not be official policy but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee any disclosure, reproduction, distribution, other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error please return it to the originator. All messages sent by this organisation are checked for viruses using the latest anti virus products. This does not and can not however guarantee that a virus has not been transmitted. Please therefore ensure that you take your own precautions for the detection and eradication of viruses.

[Guest guest]

As a mere coalface Health Visitor, who is

passionate about her profession, I am outraged by this suggestion, not least

from an accountability perspective. The ante natal contact and the new birth

visit form part of a risk assessment for which Health Visitors undergo extensive

and demanding post graduate education. This is completely different to nurse education

and an NNEB.

Your question completely negates the

expertise and role of Health Visitors. By any chance have you been “Meridianed”

?

Dumbing down a service to depths below

mediocrity is one thing, attempting to implement outright dangerous practice due

to lack of knowledge about accountability is quite another.

Noy

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Kim Mc

Sent: 09 December 2007 17:31

Subject: skill mix

I am a

senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be

interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses

are being used to do new birth visits.

Ann Kim Mc

at

kimmcandrewhotmail

or

Can you guess the film? Search Charades!

[Guest guest]

Couldn't agree more with Margaret. I begin to wonder what the point

of us is, if we can't even make a new birth visit. It's not about

being able to predict the course of parenting and a child's future

for the next N years, but about being there with skills and

information when parents are adjusting to a massive new transition.

the process of family life is pretty dynamic. For first time

parents, it's a reality shock, good or bad! How can we think that a

single antenatal contact is enough?

My problem is that the 'knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and

holistic approach that HVs undertake' cited by Barbara apply all the

way through, to every contact.

I'm concerned at what we miss by not seeing children regularly in

their own homes as they develop. Clinics are where health services

deliver instrumental care in a way that's cost effective for the NHS,

but are they really and truly the best settings to assess a young

child and their family?

Maybe the stuff that's lost by rationing services to extinction is

paid for in other ways, by children and their parents. It's becoming

a theme in my current research, that there is a human cost to what

we've done and what we have tolerated others doing to our services.

The literature is massive and diverse and I'm in over my head and

drowning at present. I'm still a beginner at this stuff, but this

unease is growing as I read.

.

--------------------------------------------------

On 9 Dec 2007 at 18:53, Margaret Buttigieg wrote:

I agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new

birth visit is a first assessment and as would say " an

undifferentiated visit " and one where an experienced practitioner is

needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth

and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans.

How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for

subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about

universalism and enabling all to receive the same.

We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued.

Margaret

Re: skill mix

Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses

undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this

and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that

parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and

skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into

consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a

process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the

knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that

HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach.

Barbara

Kim Mc <kimmcandrew@...> wrote:

I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would

be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or

nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits. Ann Kim

Mc

at

kimmcandrew@...

or

Can you guess the film? Search Charades!

Sent from - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

Dear

And why would you not be uneasy when we know about where UK (espy England) sits in relation to:

1. Expressed disaffection of its young people as surveyed recently

2. Its teenage pregnancy rates (the most linear association with lack of self-esteeem and coping skills)

3. The WHO report on depression and assd comorbidities recently published in the Lancet

4. The rise of alcohol-fuelled violence and associated dependency behaviours and damage

5. This country's track record on asylum seekers and refugees: "Only Some Children Matter"

6. The review of the power of advertising on children

7. Our stuffed prisons (50% of men and 80% of women inmates have one mental illness or other)

It's a right royal old mess and this wretched neue Labour has presided over most of it.

The bereft and continuing lack of vision, let alone comprehension of how we are all "Wired for Health",

combined with worthy rhetoric, projectitis, short-termism, numerous uncoordinated initiatives and

endless interference with the daily working lives of professionals all based upon Nash's Game Theory,

Thatcherism and Milton Friedman, and the defunct understandings of human biology and complexity theory

are but some of the contributory causes.

When I am done with Primhe, I am setting up Feisty Older Gits, and we will, through systematic and

ethical tax evasion, allied to mounting numbers and political (not party specific) activities garner a rising

swell of people who are fed-up to the back teeth with seeing their taxes being thrown into a great big

and unanswerable black-hole (Olympics, NHS ITUnfit, Parading our Army all over the globe) and party political

interference in the running of the country (which could be run far more on the evidence-base for what works

for humanoids - with complete deregulation of health, social care, education and essential infrastructure,

from endless opinionated tinkering).

Welcome to this forum. I admire everyone on it. Primhe is doing its level best to restore some sense of

worth to family practice (life beyond QoF) - so I guess I'd better get back to the day job!

VBW

Manning

www.primhe.org

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of hwood@...Sent: 10 December 2007 10:24 Subject: Re: skill mix

Couldn't agree more with Margaret. I begin to wonder what the point of us is, if we can't even make a new birth visit. It's not about being able to predict the course of parenting and a child's future for the next N years, but about being there with skills and information when parents are adjusting to a massive new transition. the process of family life is pretty dynamic. For first time parents, it's a reality shock, good or bad! How can we think that a single antenatal contact is enough?My problem is that the 'knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake' cited by Barbara apply all the way through, to every contact. I'm concerned at what we miss by not seeing children regularly in their own homes as they develop. Clinics are where health services deliver instrumental care in a way that's cost effective for the NHS, but are they really and truly the best settings to assess a young child and their family? Maybe the stuff that's lost by rationing services to extinction is paid for in other ways, by children and their parents. It's becoming a theme in my current research, that there is a human cost to what we've done and what we have tolerated others doing to our services. The literature is massive and diverse and I'm in over my head and drowning at present. I'm still a beginner at this stuff, but this unease is growing as I read..--------------------------------------------------On 9 Dec 2007 at 18:53, Margaret Buttigieg wrote:I agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new birth visit is a first assessment and as would say "an undifferentiated visit" and one where an experienced practitioner is needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans. How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about universalism and enabling all to receive the same. We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued. Margaret Re: skill mix Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach. BarbaraKim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote: I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits. Ann Kim Mc at kimmcandrewhotmail or Can you guess the film? Search Charades! Sent from - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

Brilliant! Thanks - that did me good. And you've contributed

to my lit search too. Ref that depression report (must find that!)

have you seen the suicide figures? I'm hoping that WHO will publish a

fresh international set post Innocenti next year. Scary, especially

if you look at 'undetermined deaths'.

I used to think women get the sticky end of most of this stuff and I

still do, at least in relation to caring for chronically sick adults

and the whole range of children. It's what HVs see (or used to).

But I'm becoming more aware to the issues affecting boys and men,

especially educationally and in terms of alcohol abuse and violent

deaths..

I too execrate Freidman for making it all sound easy and rational. I

left my economics degree when he got the Nobel prize. Sign me up

with the Feisty Old Gits!

--------------------------------------------------

On 10 Dec 2007 at 10:54, Manning wrote:

Dear

And why would you not be uneasy when we know about where UK (espy

England)sits in relation to:

1. Expressed disaffection of its young people as surveyed recently

2. Its teenagepregnancy rates (the most linear association with lack

of self-esteeem and coping skills)

3. The WHO report on depression and assd comorbidities recently

published in the Lancet

4. The rise of alcohol-fuelled violence and associated dependency

behaviours and damage

5. This country's track record on asylum seekers and refugees: " Only

Some Children Matter "

6. The review of the power of advertising on children

7. Our stuffed prisons (50% of men and 80% of women inmates have one

mental illness or other)

It's a right royal old mess and this wretched neue Labour has

presided over most of it.

The bereft and continuing lack of vision, let alone comprehension of

how we are all " Wired for Health " ,

combined with worthy rhetoric, projectitis, short-termism, numerous

uncoordinated initiativesand

endless interference with the daily working lives of professionals

all based upon Nash's Game Theory,

Thatcherism and Milton Friedman, and the defunct understandings of

human biology and complexity theory

are but some of the contributory causes.

When I am done with Primhe, I am setting up Feisty Older Gits, and we

will, through systematic and

ethical tax evasion, allied to mounting numbers and political (not

party specific) activities garner a rising

swell of people who are fed-up to the back teeth with seeing their

taxes being thrown into a great big

and unanswerable black-hole (Olympics, NHS ITUnfit, Parading our Army

all over the globe) andparty political

interference in the running of the country (which could be run far

more on the evidence-base for what works

for humanoids - with complete deregulation of health, social care,

education and essential infrastructure,

from endless opinionated tinkering).

Welcome to this forum. I admire everyone on it. Primhe is doing its

level best to restore some sense of

worth to family practice (life beyond QoF) - so I guess I'd better

get back to the day job!

VBW

Manning

www.primhe.org

From: [mailto:SENATE-

HVSN ] On Behalf Of hwood@...

Sent: 10 December 2007 10:24

Subject: Re: skill mix

Couldn't agree more with Margaret. I begin to wonder what the point

of us is, if we can't even make a new birth visit. It's not about

being able to predict the course of parenting and a child's future

for the next N years, but about being there with skills and

information when parents are adjusting to a massive new transition.

the process of family life is pretty dynamic. For first time

parents, it's a reality shock, good or bad! How can we think that a

single antenatal contact is enough?

My problem is that the 'knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and

holistic approach that HVs undertake' cited by Barbara apply all the

way through, to every contact.

I'm concerned at what we miss by not seeing children regularly in

their own homes as they develop. Clinics are where health services

deliver instrumental care in a way that's cost effective for the NHS,

but are they really and truly the best settings to assess a young

child and their family?

Maybe the stuff that's lost by rationing services to extinction is

paid for in other ways, by children and their parents. It's becoming

a theme in my current research, that there is a human cost to what

we've done and what we have tolerated others doing to our services.

The literature is massive and diverse and I'm in over my head and

drowning at present. I'm still a beginner at this stuff, but this

unease is growing as I read.

.

------------------------------------------------ --

On 9 Dec 2007 at 18:53, Margaret Buttigieg wrote:

I agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new

birth visit is a first assessment and as would say " an

undifferentiated visit " and one where an experienced practitioner is

needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth

and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans.

How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for

subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about

universalism and enabling all to receive the same.

We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued.

Margaret

Re: skill mix

Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses

undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this

and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that

parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and

skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into

consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a

process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the

knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that

HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach.

Barbara

Kim Mc <kimmcandrew@...> wrote:

I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would

be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or

nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits. Ann Kim

Mc

at

kimmcandrew@...

or

Can you guess the film? Search Charades!

Sent from - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

I may have missed an earlier entry - what research are you doing at the moment?Regards LowenhoffOn 10 Dec 2007, at 10:23, hwood@... wrote:Couldn't agree more with Margaret. I begin to wonder what the point of us is, if we can't even make a new birth visit. It's not about being able to predict the course of parenting and a child's future for the next N years, but about being there with skills and information when parents are adjusting to a massive new transition. the process of family life is pretty dynamic. For first time parents, it's a reality shock, good or bad! How can we think that a single antenatal contact is enough?My problem is that the 'knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake' cited by Barbara apply all the way through, to every contact. I'm concerned at what we miss by not seeing children regularly in their own homes as they develop. Clinics are where health services deliver instrumental care in a way that's cost effective for the NHS, but are they really and truly the best settings to assess a young child and their family? Maybe the stuff that's lost by rationing services to extinction is paid for in other ways, by children and their parents. It's becoming a theme in my current research, that there is a human cost to what we've done and what we have tolerated others doing to our services. The literature is massive and diverse and I'm in over my head and drowning at present. I'm still a beginner at this stuff, but this unease is growing as I read..--------------------------------------------------On 9 Dec 2007 at 18:53, Margaret Buttigieg wrote:I agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new birth visit is a first assessment and as would say "an undifferentiated visit" and one where an experienced practitioner is needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans. How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about universalism and enabling all to receive the same. We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued. Margaret Re: skill mix Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach. BarbaraKim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote: I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits. Ann Kim Mc at kimmcandrewhotmail or Can you guess the film? Search Charades! Sent from - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

Has anybody done any work on the competences required  ( or tried to write them down) to undertake a holistic new birth assessment?Regards LowenhoffOn 10 Dec 2007, at 10:54, Manning wrote:Dear  And why would you not be uneasy when we know about where UK (espy England) sits in relation to: 1. Expressed disaffection of its young people as surveyed recently2. Its teenage pregnancy rates (the most linear association with lack of self-esteeem and coping skills)3. The WHO report on depression and assd comorbidities recently published in the Lancet4. The rise of alcohol-fuelled violence and associated dependency behaviours and damage5. This country's track record on asylum seekers and refugees: "Only Some Children Matter"6. The review of the power of advertising on children7. Our stuffed prisons (50% of men and 80% of women inmates have one mental illness or other) It's a right royal old mess and this wretched neue Labour has presided over most of it.The bereft and continuing lack of vision, let alone comprehension of how we are all "Wired for Health",combined with worthy rhetoric, projectitis, short-termism, numerous uncoordinated initiatives andendless interference with the daily working lives of professionals all based upon Nash's Game Theory,Thatcherism and Milton Friedman, and the defunct understandings of human biology and complexity theoryare but some of the contributory causes. When I am done with Primhe, I am setting up Feisty Older Gits, and we will, through systematic andethical tax evasion, allied to mounting numbers and political (not party specific) activities garner a risingswell of people who are fed-up to the back teeth with seeing their taxes being thrown into a great bigand unanswerable black-hole (Olympics, NHS ITUnfit, Parading our Army all over the globe) and party politicalinterference in the running of the country (which could be run far more on the evidence-base for what worksfor humanoids - with complete deregulation of health, social care, education and essential infrastructure,from endless opinionated tinkering). Welcome to this forum. I admire everyone on it. Primhe is doing its level best to restore some sense ofworth to family practice (life beyond QoF) - so I guess I'd better get back to the day job! VBWManningwww.primhe.orgFrom: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of hwood@....co.ukSent: 10 December 2007 10:24 Subject: Re: skill mixCouldn't agree more with Margaret. I begin to wonder what the point of us is, if we can't even make a new birth visit. It's not about being able to predict the course of parenting and a child's future for the next N years, but about being there with skills and information when parents are adjusting to a massive new transition. the process of family life is pretty dynamic. For first time parents, it's a reality shock, good or bad! How can we think that a single antenatal contact is enough?My problem is that the 'knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake' cited by Barbara apply all the way through, to every contact. I'm concerned at what we miss by not seeing children regularly in their own homes as they develop. Clinics are where health services deliver instrumental care in a way that's cost effective for the NHS, but are they really and truly the best settings to assess a young child and their family? Maybe the stuff that's lost by rationing services to extinction is paid for in other ways, by children and their parents. It's becoming a theme in my current research, that there is a human cost to what we've done and what we have tolerated others doing to our services. The literature is massive and diverse and I'm in over my head and drowning at present. I'm still a beginner at this stuff, but this unease is growing as I read..--------------------------------------------------On 9 Dec 2007 at 18:53, Margaret Buttigieg wrote:I agree Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new birth visit is a first assessment and as would say "an undifferentiated visit" and one where an experienced practitioner is needed to assess the mother and baby and family following the birth and to discuss with the parents further visiting and contact plans. How can a care plan be made by the accountable professional for subsequent visits if they have not seen the family - this is about universalism and enabling all to receive the same. We cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued. Margaret Re: skill mix Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach. BarbaraKim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote: I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits. Ann Kim Mc at kimmcandrewhotmail or Can you guess the film? Search Charades! Sent from - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

It's on outcomes of child protection work with a cohort of children between

1999-2005. But I also recently completed work on access to health care at

the end of life.

I've been a registered health visitor since 1982, so I've been active in the

profession for a long time now. It's never needed activism quite so badly

before! Some of the less prudent health policy and management decisions

are beginning to show badly.

On 10 Dec 2007 at 14:29, Lowenhoff wrote:

>

> I may have missed an earlier entry - what research are you doing at

the moment?

> Regards

> Lowenhoff

> On 10 Dec 2007, at 10:23, hwood@... wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think Cambridge may have done this - staff nurses in the Children's teams were prepared to undertake the New Birth visit. Is there anyone on Senate from Cambridge?

Sheelah

Re: skill mix Whilst I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge, skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new birth visit is more than a check list approach. BarbaraKim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote: I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits. Ann Kim Mc at kimmcandrewhotmail or Can you guess the film? Search Charades! Sent from - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

Hi

Have a look at Tameside and Glossop PCt –

when I am home later in the week will send you a contact. There is also Huddersfield but am not sure it is called that now –

will also send a contact

Margaret

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lowenhoff

Sent: 10 December 2007 09:44

Subject: Re: skill

mix

Dear All

I am currently doing a piece of work for National Workforce Projects in

collaboration with the Department of Health. I am looking for examples of

integrated early childhood service delivery that incorporate the delivery of

the Child Health Promotion Programme. As you will all be aware there is a

statutory requirement for LA's to work with PCT's and others to deliver

integrated early childhood services by April 2008 ( Childcare Act 2006). Can

anybody out there help in sharing their innovative ideas for promoting child

and family health that include examples of health visitors and their teams

working in an integrated and collaborative way with staff from Children's

Centres. In areas where there are only 'virtual' Children's Centres, how easy

is it to achieve integrated working? What are the challenges and keys to

success? Any advice / thoughts / information gratefully received.

Many many thanks

Lowenhoff

Project Lead - Child Health

National Workforce Projects

On 10 Dec 2007, at 09:16, O'Riordan Clare wrote:

There is

a view that if an ante natal visit is undertaken by a health visitor, then

the new birth visit may be delegated to a staff nurse / nursery nurse.Having

just reviewed our core programme (through the catalyst of Meridian!!), we stipulated

that a health visitor is still required for the 2 post natal visits, at

the newbirth visit and the 6-8 week post natal visit; this is such a crucial

time for assessing family needs, using the knowledge, skills, etc of

a health visitor.

Clare O'Riordan.

Professional

Development Lead

Health

Visiting and School Nursing

Berkshire

East PCT

Community

Services

St

..Mark's Hospital

St.

Mark's Road

Maidenhead

SL6

6DU

Tel:

01753 638453

e

mail:clare.o'riordanberkshire (DOT) nhs.uk

From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Margaret Buttigieg

Sent:

09 December 2007 18:54

Subject:

Re: skill mix

I agree

Barbara - we need to make it clear to everyone that a new birth visit is a

first assessment and as would say " an undifferentiated visit "

and one where an experienced practitioner is needed to assess the mother and

baby and family following the birth and to discuss with the parents further

visiting and contact plans.

How can

a care plan be made by the accountable professional for subsequent visits if

they have not seen the family - this is about universalism and enabling all to

receive the same.

We

cannot allow the essence of health visiting to be devalued.

Margaret

-----

Original Message -----

From: Barbara Sumner

Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 6:20 PM

Subject: Re: skill

mix

Whilst

I have no information regarding staff nurses or nursery nurses undertaking new

birth visits I have to make a statement about this and would suggest that such

using such an approach is suggesting that parents do not need practitioners

with appropiate knowledge and skills. Health visitors search for health needs

taking into consideration all the knowledge and skills that underpin such a

process, and there is clear research evidence demonstrating the knowledge,

skills, processes, intuition and holistic approach that HVs undertake, a new

birth visit is more than a check list approach.

Barbara

Kim Mc <kimmcandrewhotmail> wrote:

I

am a senior practitioner/team leader working

in London and I

would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery

nurses are being used to do new birth visits.

Ann Kim Mc

at

kimmcandrewhotmail

or

Can

you guess the film? Search

Charades!

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[Guest guest]

Hi Kim and allI have been away for 10 days.  You certainly started an interesting stream of responses with this question!  One of the biggest harms being doing to health visiting as a preventive service, is this tendency to treat each necessary activity as a chore to be carried as quickly and cheaply as possible (regardless of effectiveness),  instead of as health promoting opportunities to identify family strengths and needs, and to begin or further the development of a practitioner/client relationship.  Sadly, the emphasis on 'team delivery' of the child health promotion programme does not really support this.I have just come back from Japan, where delivery of certain specified contacts and checks is still in statute.  They were mystified when I asked whether the law was framed in a way that made it a requirement for the public health nurses to deliver it, or  (thinking here of the Family and Parenting Institute's campaign for all parents to have the right to have support when they need it) if it was the parents' right.  They just said 'it has to happen; it is the law.'  Having said that, they are just beginning to face new difficulties, in that only around 70% mothers brought their children for 3 year checks at the clinic I visited, despite weekend clinics to accommodate working mothers.  However, the fact that our service and the qualifications needed to deliver to it  are now so variable and constantly open to question is, at least in part, due to fact that neither are required in statute now, as they used to be.  Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful responses to the question.On 9 Dec 2007, at 17:31, Kim Mc wrote:I am a senior practitioner/team leader working in London and I would be interested to know if there is any team where staff nurses or nursery nurses are being used to do new birth visits.Ann Kim Mcatkimmcandrewhotmailor  Can you guess the film? Search Charades! sarahcowley183@...http://myprofile.cos.com/S124021COn