Re: when and why to dilute (add carrier)

[Guest guest]

> I'm going through all old messages as was recommended to me on day #1

> and am still (several days later) only about 350 messages into the sum

> total. Wow, there's a lot here!!! You all are really bright and

> really generous.

>

> On one of my my " pressing " questions, I've done searches within this

> group's history but have not yet come up with an answer that satiates

> my ever-inquisitive mind. Maybe I'm using inaccurate language with

> which to ask my questions and so I haven't yet found an answer that's

> already been posted. But, regardless of why I've not yet found my

> answer, I'm going to ask here and now anyway. I hope any possible

> redundancy won't offend anyone (but if it does, I'll live .

>

> So...

>

> I've gathered that many seem to believe it wise to blend the oils

> before diluting them in your carrier (alcohol, oil, etc.). One person

> said it was so carrier oils wouldn't be wasted. Another said it's so

> you have control over the concentration of the finished product once

> you create something really nice. e.g., If you dilute 10 essential

> oils down to 10 percent each and play with those for accord creations

> etc....the final product (once a great accord or even perfume is

> created) can only be at most a 10% concentration.

>

> I have issues with this which I'll talk about below. I'm just gonna

> ramble...pour my thoughts out. Maybe I'll answer my own question in

> the process. But, still, I'd really enjoy feedback from seasoned

> perfumers.

>

> One, I can't tell whether rose or any other concentrated substance

> will smell nice in perfume form without first smelling it highly dilute.

>

>Dear Jen

I believe in this type of creative endeavor first you must realize their

are no truly right or wrong answers...and through trial and error you'll

find your own way that works for you. I initially started not with

blending but with dilution experiments to see how various essences smelled

at different dilutions and what shifted and overpowering herbal or

concentrated essence to something light beautiful and graceful...those are

the words I choose now but it wasn't always what I was looking for

sometimes I was looking for profound or bold...I wanted to know then after

I got to know all my essences which played best with others. Ylang Ylang

overpowers everyone as does seaweed and Jonquil oh miss expensive jonquil

is put out and disappears next to tuberose....lavender loves everybody and

when balancing a composition lavender can smooth the finish with a mere

drop at times....Ambrette warms a blend so does ginger palmarosa cinamon

and pepper...and on and on...when you read the history of perfumery the

initial formulations took years to make once you know what keenly awakens

your inner fires so to speak with dilution and then know who plays well

with others then compose and then work on balancing the comp so if you

want a key player to make a stand say your building the composition around

Neroli make sure all players enhance the feel and flow of Neroli...

The reason why the essences were asked to to be blended before the carrier

is so they will marry...put them together give it a week and they've all

worked out their arrangement and the blend softens...but you need to know

how to dilute and balance them first before you compose...

I love your passion perfumery is a blend of art and science I truly

believe you are asking all the right questions and hope that you find all

the answers.

Njoy,

LF

[Guest guest]

I was looking for profound or bold...I wanted to know then after

> I got to know all my essences which played best with others.

What a wonderful reply! I know it wasn't addressed to me, but it was

informative:).

I have set up my blending table to do just dilutions. All my EO are

diluted to what feels the perfect percentages to me. Davana is at 5%,

Ylang at 5%, Patchouli at 5%, most others at 10%, most

citrus/bergamot/geranium at 20%.

These are diluted in fractionated coconut, not alcohol. This because

it takes forever for that alcohol stench to go away, the volatility

of the alcohol from continual open and closing of the bottle and

evaporation causing the alcohol to minutely change the %'s on me over

time.

I do it this way so the smells meld the way I want and I don't have

to waste a lot of EO if just the ratios are off (argh. 1 drop davana

is awful... I need to add 20 drops of frankinsense and 10 drops of

rose otto to drown it out... to find that one drop of lime wrecks the

whole thing and I have to throw it away after blowing a few ml of

rose otto, frankinsense, jasmine absolute, spikenard etc).

This way, if I hit a blend I like, I can replicate it later in whole

drops and it's less costly and more precise, because I'm not

compounding my expenses and mistakes.

Probably not the recommended way of doing things, but now I can stand

behind you for saying we should all blend the way we want, LF:P.

[Guest guest]

Oh, you're just as great as Lesle!

Thank you for sharing so thoroughly your methods and findings (esp.

the percentages below)!

> I have set up my blending table to do just dilutions. All my EO are

> diluted to what feels the perfect percentages to me. Davana is at 5%,

> Ylang at 5%, Patchouli at 5%, most others at 10%, most

> citrus/bergamot/geranium at 20%.

>

> These are diluted in fractionated coconut, not alcohol. This because

> it takes forever for that alcohol stench to go away, the volatility

> of the alcohol from continual open and closing of the bottle and

> evaporation causing the alcohol to minutely change the %'s on me over

> time.

Outstanding reasons for not using alcohol for the dilutions at your

blending station! Lesson heard.

> I do it this way so the smells meld the way I want and I don't have

> to waste a lot of EO if just the ratios are off (argh. 1 drop davana

> is awful... I need to add 20 drops of frankinsense and 10 drops of

> rose otto to drown it out... to find that one drop of lime wrecks the

> whole thing and I have to throw it away after blowing a few ml of

> rose otto, frankinsense, jasmine absolute, spikenard etc).

Well-said. Well-understood. That's just what I had in mind as the

problem to avoid, and you spelled it out so that it became crystal clear.

> This way, if I hit a blend I like, I can replicate it later in whole

> drops and it's less costly and more precise, because I'm not

> compounding my expenses and mistakes.

>

> Probably not the recommended way of doing things, but now I can stand

> behind you for saying we should all blend the way we want, LF:P.

This way makes much more sense to me than the other recommended way,

but I'm still interested in what I might be missing. It's absolutely a

treat to my ego to know that others like what I like, but I am still

very curious over why someone would not do it this way.

~Jen

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm going through all old messages as was recommended to me on day #1

> and am still (several days later) only about 350 messages into the sum

> total. Wow, there's a lot here!!! You all are really bright and

> really generous.

I am really impressed with your diligence, Jeniffer!

I know I would feel too overwhelmed to read all this (and I myself

haven't read all the messages yet!)

> I've gathered that many seem to believe it wise to blend the oils

> before diluting them in your carrier (alcohol, oil, etc.). One person

> said it was so carrier oils wouldn't be wasted.

True - as well as for alcohol (if you are making an alcohol based

perfume).

> Another said it's so

> you have control over the concentration of the finished product once

> you create something really nice.

That's the main advantage of this method really.

e.g., If you dilute 10 essential

> oils down to 10 percent each and play with those for accord creations

> etc....the final product (once a great accord or even perfume is

> created) can only be at most a 10% concentration.

I am not sure I get your math here, but basically, if you create a

" jus " (i.e. Juice - which is just the essential oils and absolutes

etc. not diluted - you can create any concentration you like to

achieve, from 1% to 40% etc. by calculating how many drops or mls or

grams you need to add to your base.

> One, I can't tell whether rose or any other concentrated substance

> will smell nice in perfume form without first smelling it highly

dilute.

That is why I would recommend you learn to use the materials first. I

personally don't create with diluted absolutes for the most part (and

when I do I do this just so that their consistency is good enough for

using a dropper). For some reason I usually can imagine how the very

concentrated absolutes will react with each other after being diluted

into the carrier. This may not work for everyone, but this is how I

designed every single fragrance since 6 years ago when I started my

perfumery, and it works perfectly well for me.

If the very concentrated essences is too confusing, you can dilute it

down to whatever concentration you like, as long as you record (on the

vial or bottle you are using) which concentration you've made. It's

important to get to know your materials, and that's one way of doing so.

After you know the essences well enough (how they develop on a paper

strip, on the skin after dilution, and how they smell in their diluted

form, etc.) - and how they interact with one another (for this you

will have to blend them together, preferebly directly into the

carrier) - and once you have achieved a final formula for a perfume

that yoiu like - than you may consider creating a " jus " so that you

have control over the concentration for the final product.

> But, still,

> diluting prior to blending still seems to me to be a good way to save

> money and fragrant materials (though maybe not bottles).

Yes, it would definitley save money!

> I'm still wondering about other (as of yet unsaid? or unfound?)

> reasons for not diluting before blending...maybe the essential oils,

> absolutes, etc. won't bond with each other so well if they're first

> allowed to bond with oil or alcohol.

This is just how I used to work from the start. I like it that way and

it's also less confusing when it comes to needing to calculate, record

and remember the dilutions of each essence. It can become a tad tedious.

> I'm guessing that it's recommended to blend before dilution simply

> because different carriers result in a different effect (muffling top

> notes, for instance). If one begins the blend with each eo (etc.) of

> the blend previously diluted in oil, he/she may not be able to know

> that the blend could smell better or even fantastic (versus mediocre)

> in alcohol. Options are limited this way, I'm thinking. Oh, and if

> someone decides that they want to test in alcohol, they'd have to

> create bottles of eo diluted in alcohol before creating an

> alcohol-based test blend. And if doing so, each alcohol-diluted eo

> would have to be aged (for 6 weeks?) before beginning to create

> accords and such. And who has that kind of patience!!!

That's one big reason for NOT diluting: you can than choose your

carrier as you wish (alcohol or jojoba). But if you want to use both

and implement the diluted essences system, you will have to have each

essence diluted in both alcohol and jojoba oil (other oils will get

rancid, so don't use them!).

Ayala Sender

www.AyalaMoriel.com

www.SmellyBlog.com