Re: Tincturing Spices in my New Home Lab

[Guest guest]

Went on a spice run today, and tinctured up some Ajwain seeds and some

> Black Cardamon pods. Both are fabulous. The Ajwain is a cross

> between celery and lighter fluid. Black Cardamon is bright and

> camphoraceous like the regular green pods, but with a dry burnt wood

> note like they were left out by a mesquite smokehouse. Here's a

> concoction I whipped up using both tinctures:

>

> 2/3 Ajwain tincture (dry 1:5 pure ethanol)

> 1/3 Black Cardamon pod tincture

> >mix to form 1/2 oz perfume base

>

> Labdanum resin 10 drops

> Myrrh 8 drops

> Vetiver SC02 India 4 drops

> Galangal 4 drops

> Galbanum 3 drops

> Mace 3 drops

> Seed 2 drops

> Root SCO2 2 drops

> Blonde Tobacco Abs. 1 drop

> Valerian Root 1/2 drop

> Cognac Abs. 0.25 drop

>

> Cheers,

>

> Corin Royal Drummond

> San Francisco

I've been eyeballing this all day. I love vetiver, galangal,

galbanum, labdanum, and Cardamon. I'd love to hear how it all comes

out in the end!

iel

[Guest guest]

> Went on a spice run today, and tinctured up some Ajwain seeds and

some

> Black Cardamon pods. Both are fabulous. The Ajwain is a cross

> between celery and lighter fluid. Black Cardamon is bright and

> camphoraceous like the regular green pods, but with a dry burnt wood

> note like they were left out by a mesquite smokehouse. Here's a

> concoction I whipped up using both tinctures:

>

> 2/3 Ajwain tincture (dry 1:5 pure ethanol)

> 1/3 Black Cardamon pod tincture

> >mix to form 1/2 oz perfume base

>

> Labdanum resin 10 drops

> Myrrh 8 drops

> Vetiver SC02 India 4 drops

> Galangal 4 drops

> Galbanum 3 drops

> Mace 3 drops

> Seed 2 drops

> Root SCO2 2 drops

> Blonde Tobacco Abs. 1 drop

> Valerian Root 1/2 drop

> Cognac Abs. 0.25 drop

>

> Cheers,

>

> Corin Royal Drummond

> San Francisco

>

iel, that sounds really interesting! May I ask what you are

tincturing in? Is it perfumer's grade alcohol straight or like

medicinal tincturing with ethanol alcohol and distilled water? How

much plant material do you use?

I have another question about this also. My mother has this HUGE

plant of night blooming cereus. It's a flower that only blooms for

one night and is dead by morning. But for that one night, the snow

white flowers can get up to 10 " in diameter and the smell... it's

indescribable. Very much like an orchid Angraecum Sesquipidale, the

most heavenly smell on earth (which are also platter sized and

insanely fragrant, but the plants are completely unrelated). Her

cereus plant is so large that it can produce up to 20 flowers in one

nite 2x a year.

If there were a way to capture this scent in tincture form, what

would be the best way to try? The maximum scent concentration would

only be a window of about 1/2 an hour, and the flowers are REALLY

gummy (the flowers can be used as a cough expectorant in Asian

traditional medicine).

For perfumery, would I want to use straight perfumers alcohol? Would

I want to smash the gummy flowers into the alcohol packing as tightly

as I can?

Do you think that a gummy sticky flower with an incredibly powerful

scent but obviously other properties (very gummy) can have the scent

tinctured? I wish I could attach a photo here so you can see what the

flower looks like. If I can get this to work, I can upload the

tincture pix (once the flowers are pickled) when I try. the flower is

not in bud or anything (if it were I'd have 2 days to prepare and I

don't have any perfumers alcohol, only Everclear), but I want to be

ready with whatever I may need once it does.

Also, has anyone tried to tincture magnolia flowers? I have a

magnolia tree in my front yard I could try once it blooms too:).

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen!

Corin Royal Drummond wrote the original post with all those wonderful

ingredients, so you may want to ask him what he tinctured in. I personally

prefer working with oil bases. Jojoba is very nice since it is actually a liquid

plant wax that doesn't spoil easily. However some botanicals, resins, and other

fibers require the use of an alcohol solvent. When tincturing these items I

perfer the use of a 190 or 200 proof alcohol that hasn't been denatured. I am

also new to the perfumery scene and am discovering all these different mediums.

Maybe someone can chime in about your flowers? I honestly have no clue what to

tell you about them! Good luck!

iel

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

SNIP SNIP to save on BW

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of helenae02

Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:00 AM

Subject: Re: Tincturing Spices in my New Home Lab

sniped> My mother has this HUGE

plant of night blooming cereus. >sniped

If there were a way to capture this scent in tincture form, what

would be the best way to try? >Sniped

>sniped

also, has anyone tried to tincture magnolia flowers? I have a

magnolia tree in my front yard I could try once it blooms too:).

Ah, Helena, you make me anxious for spring and summer . . . Always difficult

to be patient once winter solstice has passed.

Here's some lovely pics of cereus for those who aren't familiar. Not only

is it fragrant, it is spectacular to the eye.

http://rfovell.bol.ucla.edu/cereus.html

We have tried to tincture magnolia . . . With little success to date. We

are undaunted, however, and will try again. nne (who works with me) has

a giant close to her house and we've attempted those dinner plate sized

blossoms.

Regarding whether you mash ( " macerate " is the herbal term) the flowers; all

botanicals are different. Delicate flowers are not as likely to cooperate

when macerated and roughly handled like their herbal cousins like arnica or

st. johnswort. When tincturing lilac or butterfly bush, we carefully pick

each bloom (very time consuming) and handle with care, trying not to bruise.

The scent sacs will give over their luscious scent to alcohol with patience

and care. The secret to increasing odor intensity is to remove spent

blossoms and re-add fresh ones over and over. Lilac and butterfly bush take

several years to intensify and tincture can be frozen or refrigerated

between infusions. I would suspect that the cereus would do better with

little bruising or mashing much like lilac or buddhelia.

Marcia Elston, Samara Botane http://www.wingedseed.com

" When the power of love becomes stronger than the love of power, we will

have peace. "

Jimi Hendrix

[Guest guest]

> The secret to increasing odor intensity is to remove spent

> blossoms and re-add fresh ones over and over. Lilac and butterfly

bush take

> several years to intensify and tincture can be frozen or

refrigerated

> between infusions. I would suspect that the cereus would do better

with

> little bruising or mashing much like lilac or buddhelia.

Thanks for the advice Marcia! I was thinking that if I tried to avoid

bruising the flowers... due to sheer size, I might not be able to get

but 1 or 2 into a jar. Also, that gummy property is worrisome for

scent.

My mother uses the spent flowers sometimes. They can actually be

cooked down into almost a pectin for throat problems. It's a use I've

never seen or heard of before this (thus the Chinese Traditional

Medicine mention), but I have a friend who is a lung cancer survivor,

and the chemo made her throat close up and get very very narrow (the

diameter of a pea). Every few months, she has to go to the doctor to

have a small balloon inserted down her throat and 'stretched' through

inflation. This, I suppose 'syrup' for lack of a better term, is one

of the few things that helps keep her from gagging on food, and lasts

for a few days. Unfortunately, the plant doesn't bloom every few days.

Her plant is so huge however (we live in Florida, so we can grow a

lot of semi-tropicals and tropicals outdoors or on the porch), that

there's plenty of flowers to go around, IF you can use them all in

one night.

No matter what, I will give it a try at the next blooming, since I

have nothing to lose. The refrigerator between bloomings is a

fantastic idea! Thank you so much for your reply! Please let me know

if you figure out how to get magnolia to give up a scent too. I think

I will try both oil enfleurage and alcohol tincturing on both when

they bloom.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Helen!

> Corin Royal Drummond wrote the original post with all those

wonderful ingredients, so you may want to ask him what he tinctured in.

Thanks for the reply iel! Oops!

Corin, I'm sorry, I read the reply and not the original. I still get a

bit confused by the group format. I meant the question for you.

What an amazingly complex tincture! I have tried tinctures, but only

medicinal types (osha root for bugbites, calendula/chamomile for

rashes, mullein root for stomach, valerian for sleeping, kudzu for

alcohol indulgence). These are necessarily tinctured in Everclear or

vodka. I've never tried to tincture in any other kind of alcohol.

So my question was, is the best tincturing material for scent to use

perfumers alcohol? Thanks:)!

[Guest guest]

At 10:19 PM 1/4/2007, you wrote:

>

> >

> > Hi Helen!

> > Corin Royal Drummond wrote the original post with all those

>wonderful ingredients, so you may want to ask him what he tinctured in.

>

>Thanks for the reply iel! Oops!

>

>Corin, I'm sorry, I read the reply and not the original. I still get a

>bit confused by the group format. I meant the question for you.

>

>What an amazingly complex tincture! I have tried tinctures, but only

>medicinal types (osha root for bugbites, calendula/chamomile for

>rashes, mullein root for stomach, valerian for sleeping, kudzu for

>alcohol indulgence). These are necessarily tinctured in Everclear or

>vodka. I've never tried to tincture in any other kind of alcohol.

>

>So my question was, is the best tincturing material for scent to use

>perfumers alcohol? Thanks:)!

Hi Helena

I prefer the organic undenatured alcohol from Alcsol. They give a

nice discount on first orders. http://alcsol.com If you don't want to

go the organic route, 190 proof Everclear is fine. It's not available

in Florida, but you can mailorder it.

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

[Guest guest]

Hi, Helena.

I want to add to Anya's suggestion to check out http://alcsol. com since I've

sampled both types offered there. Each is much smoother than Everclear and each

does have a slight aroma but which is probably much less disruptive to a perfume

than Everclear's kick to the face. And the price...Where IS that price sheet I

spent so much time playing with??? I just spent about 5 minutes looking for it

to no avail. Maybe when I find it I'll be inspired to update this post...

Anyway, the grape alcohol wasn't much more expensive than Everclear (in my

opinion) considering that grapes are much more expensive than grain. I'm trying

to recall the results of my number crunching (and keep in mind that I did screw

up a calculation in a post earlier this week that if I were to buy a gallon

only, the cost was about 33% higher than for Everclear. Their organic grain

alcohol would come out to about the same price as Everclear, though, I think was

the case. What a pleasant suprise that

was!

~Jen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Hi Helena

>

> I prefer the organic undenatured alcohol from Alcsol. They give a

> nice discount on first orders. http://alcsol.com If you don't want to

> go the organic route, 190 proof Everclear is fine. It's not available

> in Florida, but you can mailorder it.

Thanks Anya:). They look perfect! Especially the hypoallergenic grape

alcohol...didn't even know you could get that. I will call them next

week. I have to get through my stock of 1/2 gallon of Everclear (I get

the 151 at the liquor store) first, and I don't have anything I can

tincture right now.

I have a question about that. Why is it superior to use 190 proof

alcohol and add distilled water to it, than to simply buy 151 proof

alcohol and add no water to get roughly a Eau de Perfum ratio of

alcohol/water (before adding EO)?

Also, could it be a good idea to add a small bit of polysorbate 20 or

IPM to your EO before blending with alcohol as a 'fixative' too?

I've read that some people use glycerin because it's a humectant, but

it can cloud... the polysorbate wouldn't cloud, I don't think, since

its purpose is to make oils water soluable, and both water and oil are

already soluble in alcohol. Does anyone do this?

[Guest guest]

--- helenae02 <helenae@...> wrote:

> I have a question about that. Why is it superior to

> use 190 proof

> alcohol and add distilled water to it, than to

> simply buy 151 proof

> alcohol and add no water to get roughly a Eau de

> Perfum ratio of

> alcohol/water (before adding EO)?

****************************************************

I think the reason most of us use the higher proof

alcohol is because certain essences, esp resins, won't

dissolve in the alcohol with more water content. Once

you have used the 190 proof to dissolve everything,

though, I don't see why you couldn't top up with 151

proof. Anybody else on this?

-Patty

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Marcia Elston <samara@...> wrote:

My mother has this HUGE

plant of night blooming cereus. >sniped

If there were a way to capture this scent in tincture form, what

Ah, Helena,

Here's some lovely pics of cereus for those who aren't familiar. Not only

is it fragrant, it is spectacular to the eye.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lots snipped for save.......

Hi Marcia Helena

What does it smell like? Could you try and describe it?

Janita

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

> What does it smell like? Could you try and describe it?

Hi ita:).

Night-blooming cereus smells much like a very slightly spicy sweet

orange blossom, if you are familiar with some of the scented orchid

species from Madagasgar, it's a lot like that (not like vanilla). Maybe

a cross between jasmine sambac and orange blossom, with barely a faint

hint of vanilla and black pepper. There is NO oily or powdery type of

smell to it (like gardenia or even magnolia), it is nothing like ylang

whatsoever, probably the opposite in floral terms. Neroli and Jasmine

absolute would be closest.

It's a straightforward sweet, intoxicating flower smell. When you smell

it, you think... if I dreamed of the perfect flower scent... this would

be it.

[Guest guest]

--- helenae02 <helenae@...> wrote:

> > What does it smell like? Could you try and

> describe it?

>

> Hi ita:).

>

> Night-blooming cereus smells much like a very

> slightly spicy sweet

> orange blossom, if you are familiar with some of the

> scented orchid

> species from Madagasgar, it's a lot like that (not

> like vanilla). Maybe

> a cross between jasmine sambac and orange blossom,

> with barely a faint

> hint of vanilla and black pepper. There is NO oily

> or powdery type of

> smell to it (like gardenia or even magnolia), it is

> nothing like ylang

> whatsoever, probably the opposite in floral terms.

> Neroli and Jasmine

> absolute would be closest.

>

> It's a straightforward sweet, intoxicating flower

> smell. When you smell

> it, you think... if I dreamed of the perfect flower

> scent... this would

> be it.

>

>

Nice description! Wow, let us know if you are able to

capture the smell in a tincture. Sounds gorgeous!

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

helenae02 <helenae@...> wrote:

Hi ita:).

Night-blooming cereus smells much like a very slightly spicy sweet

orange blossom, if you are familiar with some of the scented orchid

species from Madagasgar, it's a lot like that (not like vanilla). Maybe

a cross between jasmine sambac and orange blossom, with barely a faint

hint of vanilla and black pepper. There is NO oily or powdery type of

smell to it (like gardenia or even magnolia), it is nothing like ylang

whatsoever, probably the opposite in floral terms. Neroli and Jasmine

absolute would be closest.

It's a straightforward sweet, intoxicating flower smell. When you smell

it, you think... if I dreamed of the perfect flower scent... this would

be it.

Helena

Thank you for that delicious description........ I can visualise the

perfume... does the flower only open once or does it open for a few nights

before depleting its petals and perfume?

fragrantly

Janita

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

> Thank you for that delicious description........ I can visualise

the perfume... does the flower only open once or does it open for a few

nights before depleting its petals and perfume?

>

> fragrantly

> Janita

Hi ita:).

The flowers begin opening around either 9 pm or 12am, and get larger

and larger... until around 12am or 3am (depending on when the buds

began). At that point it's at it's fullest in both size and scent. From

there, it begins to die... by around 6am, it's dead (I am usually

passed out before that). There's never been a multiple night's blooming

that I've ever heard of. It's one night, and one night only til the

next blooming.

Tell you what, I'm going to put a page of the photos of a flower

opening sequence up for you on my site so you can see for yourself.

Ok, I made it for you, please look: http://www.zensoaps.com/cereus.htm

That should explain it all:).

[Guest guest]

> Thank you for that delicious description........ I can visualise

the perfume... does the flower only open once or does it open for a few

nights before depleting its petals and perfume?

>

> fragrantly

> Janita

Hi ita:).

The flowers begin opening around either 9 pm or 12am, and get larger

and larger... until around 12am or 3am (depending on when the buds

began). At that point it's at it's fullest in both size and scent. From

there, it begins to die... by around 6am, it's dead (I am usually

passed out before that). There's never been a multiple night's blooming

that I've ever heard of. It's one night, and one night only til the

next blooming.

Tell you what, I'm going to put a page of the photos of a flower

opening sequence up for you on my site so you can see for yourself.

Ok, I made it for you, please look: http://www.zensoaps.com/cereus.htm

That should explain it all:).

[Guest guest]

(re: night-blooming cereus)

> If there were a way to capture this scent in tincture form, what

> would be the best way to try? The maximum scent concentration would

> only be a window of about 1/2 an hour, and the flowers are REALLY

> gummy (the flowers can be used as a cough expectorant in Asian

> traditional medicine).

Andrine's reply:

Hi Helena,

What about doing an enfleurage of the cereus? You could smear crisco

on a couple of large dinner plates and put the blooms in between the

two plates -- maybe putting in two flowers, back-to-back so the top

of each flower is facing the crisco. Then sandwich the two plates

together and leave overnight. That way you could avoid crushing the

flowers (as you are likely to do when trying to get them to fit into

a jar). If you have enough plates, you could do a bunch of flowers

this way...

Another idea is to use a large vessel (and lots of alcohol to fill

it) and put the flowers into that. I'm thinking of those old-

fashioned pickle crocks that you find around junk shops. I use one

for making moist potpourri -- mine is large enough that I can fit a

dinner plate down into it to cover and hold down the ingredients

while they're stewing.

Good luck -- keep us posted!

Andrine

[Guest guest]

(re: night-blooming cereus)

> If there were a way to capture this scent in tincture form, what

> would be the best way to try? The maximum scent concentration would

> only be a window of about 1/2 an hour, and the flowers are REALLY

> gummy (the flowers can be used as a cough expectorant in Asian

> traditional medicine).

Andrine's reply:

Hi Helena,

What about doing an enfleurage of the cereus? You could smear crisco

on a couple of large dinner plates and put the blooms in between the

two plates -- maybe putting in two flowers, back-to-back so the top

of each flower is facing the crisco. Then sandwich the two plates

together and leave overnight. That way you could avoid crushing the

flowers (as you are likely to do when trying to get them to fit into

a jar). If you have enough plates, you could do a bunch of flowers

this way...

Another idea is to use a large vessel (and lots of alcohol to fill

it) and put the flowers into that. I'm thinking of those old-

fashioned pickle crocks that you find around junk shops. I use one

for making moist potpourri -- mine is large enough that I can fit a

dinner plate down into it to cover and hold down the ingredients

while they're stewing.

Good luck -- keep us posted!

Andrine

[Guest guest]

> > Thank you for the great ideas Andrine!

> >

> > I'm wondering what oils I should use to try this (as

> > I soaper, I have

> > nearly every fatty acid oil produced).

....

> > Is there a reason that perfumers use a hydrogenated

> > oil for this

> > process? SNIP TO SAVE BW

> Helen,

SNIP

(I believe animal fat is considered to

> be the best) and then " wash " the fat with a solvent

> which removes the fragrance from the fat.

>

Okay, this may embarass me, but I want to contribute a thought even

though I've not been following the thread and have not a clue how to

do what you both are talking about.

But the mention of animal fat reminded me of the cooking lard I

purchased from an organic-type animal farm years ago. Most storebought

lard has hydrogenated veggie oils in it. This that I bought was pure.

And it had an animal aroma. But it was that solid animal fat that

was mentioned as being used for enfleurage. Would beef tallow from

organically-raised cows be an option? I saw some sources for that

online years ago. But the lard was only about $6 per quart a few years

ago...much cheaper than the tallow which was offered online at that time.

If you're interested in checking out these options, join the

group, particularly the one run by (??) Sally

Fallon in D.C. And a store called In Good Health, located in

polis, could help you in the search for such fats in the same

area. The Weston A. Price Foundation would be a great resource for

others not in that part of the country.

~Jen

[Guest guest]

> Helen,

> There was a really great discussion about enfleurage

> here a few months ago that you could access in the

> archives. Type in " enfleurage pittosporum " and I

> think the posts will come up. I don't know much about

> enfleurage but the idea is that you infuse the flowers

> in a solid fat (I believe animal fat is considered to

> be the best) and then " wash " the fat with a solvent

> which removes the fragrance from the fat. I have

> never done it and don't really understand the process

> but several people in this group know a lot about it.

> Search around in the archives and you will find a

> wealth of info. I enjoyed the post on your blog--

> beautiful photos.

>

>

Thanks .

I did a search... and got a lot of notes about alfred's masses of

blooming pittosporin... but nothing about how he planned to

enfleurage them, just that he did. When searching for the

term 'enfleurage', I got a lot of commentary, but again, no

directions.

I keep seeing references to 'archives'. Is there an index to these

archives? Even when I try to read back via the next and previous

topics, I get cut off notes that are not connected, very often notes

that refer to a topic that cannot be found. I have gone back hundreds

of pages. It also skips around by date... I read most of the notes

from 2002, some from 2003, but saw none from 2004, 2005 and 2006.

Again, searching by search topic yields almost none of the relevant

notes or the top note the others refer to, but tantalizing bits and

pieces of the references.

Is there some form of organization to these 'archives', or how to get

at specific notes rather than all the note commetary without the

openers?

[Guest guest]

>

> > Helen,

> > There was a really great discussion about enfleurage

> > here a few months ago that you could access in the

> > archives. Type in " enfleurage pittosporum " and I

> > think the posts will come up. I don't know much about

> > enfleurage but the idea is that you infuse the flowers

> > in a solid fat (I believe animal fat is considered to

> > be the best) and then " wash " the fat with a solvent

> > which removes the fragrance from the fat.

I've been reading the discussion on enfleurage & distinctly recall

reading that the French use a very specific 'leaf lard' for the

process. Doen't mean lard from leaves, but rather lard that looks,

in it's unprocessed state, like white leaves caught in a net.

Your butcher would call this 'caul fat.' Your doctor would call it

mesentary tissue.

The very best is specifically from around the kidneys of swine.

When rendered, it has a very fine texture, is semi-liquid at room

temperature, and has no animal smell if rendered correctly.

I'm not sure if it will be on the shelf of the local quicky mart...

You may be able to find it online from a custom bakery supply

company.

Lard from cattle, goats and particularly sheep will always carry a

significant animalic smell.

J

[Guest guest]

> I've been reading the discussion on enfleurage & distinctly recall

> reading that the French use a very specific 'leaf lard' for the

> process. Doen't mean lard from leaves, but rather lard that looks,

> in it's unprocessed state, like white leaves caught in a net.

>

> Your butcher would call this 'caul fat.' Your doctor would call it

> mesentary tissue.

>

> The very best is specifically from around the kidneys of swine.

> When rendered, it has a very fine texture, is semi-liquid at room

> temperature, and has no animal smell if rendered correctly.

Thank you and !

I found them! I did a search for Leaf Lard, and when I couldn't find

more direct information, I looked at who they referred to. What

yielded the 'prize' was the search terms: leaf lard . That took

me to the note everyone referred to (by ) which gave the steps

for the leaf lard (and the entire topic, which had a lot of good

info). Perfect!

I'm not sure I'll be able to get leaf lard... I will ask around. If

not, I will try regular lard, since that's easily available.

Actually, I get my lard in 50lb boxes from my local distributor, so

it's not technically 'manteca lard' that you'd find at the grocery

store. While it doesn't have long fat stripes intact... it does look

more rough, less processed, than the green bucket Armour lard at the

grocery stores. Maybe it includes whatever lard they can get their

hands on? It's white, but not as buttery as the Armour stuff. Hrm.

I'll try it:).

My biggest concern was how soon it would go rancid. From reading the

experiments done, it required a lot of flowers over a period of

days... I probably won't get more than 2 days worth, but a LOT of

flowers on those 2 days. This means I'd have to store it til the next

blooming or more... til I got a strong enough scent to try that

kitchenaid alcohol method. I guess the fridge should do it. I wonder

if any other type of fat would do the trick? Probably not, since

animal fat is less smelly than any of the semi solid plant fats.

Coconut doesn't sound very effective.

I'm so glad I read about the alcohol part! I never thought of that at

all! I was wondering how you would use raw scented solid fats in

perfume:P.

I may try blenderizing a few flowers in alcohol just to see what

would happen also.

I wonder what part of the flower scent issues from? I mean what makes

a flower smell? There's no gland, no production area or scent

concentration I've ever seen when picking apart a flower. Scents just

sort of ooze out of the entire flower, mostly the petals.

If that's where the scent is, it's logical that mashing them would be

more effective than sticking them on lard plates. Apparently it's

not, or that's how they would have done it in the olden days. It's

still puzzling. Interesting how the more I learn, the more questions

I have rather than fewer:).

[Guest guest]

Is there some form of organization to these 'archives', or how to get

at specific notes rather than all the note commetary without the

openers?

Anya wrote in links or files about how to navigate round this.....

have a check

Janita

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[Guest guest]

Edited to trim...

-- Re: Tincturing Spices in my New Home Lab

Thank you for the great ideas Andrine!

I'm wondering what oils I should use to try this (as I soaper, I have

nearly every fatty acid oil produced). Crisco goes rancid very

quickly... lard lasts a bit longer... but is still not very enduring.

Lard also has a noticeable smell of it's own. You have me thinking tho,

what a great idea! I need a hydrogenated oil that will not go rancid

quickly, without a strong smell of its own.

Hello Helen

I am not a Soaper so the information below is based on oils that I use for

Aromatherapy & Cosmetics What I want to say is I do not know if the

chemistry changes with soap making.

I noticed you mention Palm Oil that is why I am replying.

Oils High in Linoleic are most vunrable for spoilage

I Use Palm Oil From www.camdengrey.com in a Intensive foot treatment

It is vertualy Orderless!! another oil with A longlife is Grapeseed Oil .

Johoba Oil has a amazing shelf life But it is a wax really so I do not know

how that would boad with soap making.

Hope this helps.

Gill.

[Guest guest]

> Thank you for the great ideas Andrine!

Andrine's reply:

Hi again Helena -- You are most welcome (belatedly). Thanks to

everyone who pitched in their wonderful ideas too! I'm sorry I didn't

catch your response until now. I've been totally neglecting the group

while taking care of family business and dealing with more snow that

we're not too used to around here. I'm really grateful to others for

stepping up and answering your questions while I was off being

neglectful.

Being an enfleurage novice myself, I've only tried Crisco. It's

interesting to think of using the other options that everyone suggested

here. I didn't even think to use my coconut oil -- thanks for that

suggestion! I may try a little of that with my witch hazel that is in

full bloom in the snow just now. Although I'm wondering if the snow

has damaged the scent at all...

Off to try to catch up on more postings....

Belatedly,

Andrine