Re: Deterioration of a blend

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I finalized a certain blend about 6 months ago, The blend is labdanum

and tobacco based, with also quite a bit of petitgrain and lemon (I got

some advice from T. on safety; you might find this in the June

'06 archives, but that's another issue), lavender, pine, a floral touch

and a hint of spicy oils, e.g. black pepper. I diluted it to about 30%

and stored it in the dark, of course, where it is mostly at a fairly

cool room temperature.

Meanwhile, for my own sniffing and to try out with others, I've been

using a clear sample vial which I filled about 4 months ago. I was

calling the blend a cologne and realized it should be diluted much

further to be used as such. The sample vial I diluted it to about 15%

-- still strong, I know - plus a few drops of water, to see how that

would be. The degree of dilution may not be relevant, but I thought I'd

mention it in case it is.

I noticed lately I really wasn't so impressed by this blend anymore -

after first being thrilled with it, and getting some v. good feedback,

too. It seemed to have become sweeter (the tendency to sweetness of

the natural EO's is something I don't always like) and not as exciting.

I was about to use this as the most recent example of my seeming to

outgrow my perfumes when I went to my stored bottles to fill a new vial

to send someone.

The stored stuff was very different - I could see why I had been

excited about it, and that it was all or mostly the blend and not my

taste that had changed. By comparison, the strong dark qualities of

the labdanum and tobacco were almost completely lost in the vial that

had been lying around. At first I thought that the citrus had

overwhelmed the blend, but then realized that the citrus, too, was much

fresher in the stored bottle - it was really a very different, much

superior substance.

The sample vial I'd been using had not been in direct sunlight or

heat, although it had frequently lain around in indirect day and

artificial light. I only shared it with a few people, so it wasn't a

matter of it constantly being opened and maybe contaminated. If I

distributed the blend in any way, it would be in dark bottles, still I

find it unsettling that the contents of the vial would have

deteriorated so badly in a relatively short time. Obviously many

natural perfumers are out there selling perfume in clear bottles and I

haven't heard this kind of problem mentioned.

Any feedback would be welcome.

Thanks much,

e

[Guest guest]

e <avir-c@...> wrote: Hi All,

I finalized a certain blend about 6 months ago, The blend is labdanum

and tobacco based, with also quite a bit of petitgrain and lemon (I got

some advice from T. on safety; you might find this in the June

'06 archives, but that's another issue), lavender, pine, a floral touch

and a hint of spicy oils, e.g. black pepper. I diluted it to about 30%

and stored it in the dark, of course, where it is mostly at a fairly

cool room temperature.

The sample vial I diluted it to about 15%

Any feedback would be welcome.

Thanks much,

e

Hey e.....

I think you may have answered yourself already......

Looking at your notes above...... you mention two things...... The first blend

in storage @ 30% the second @ 15% with a touch of water................

Perhaps you have recognised it at that higher %and any further dilution as you

say has changed the aroma..... it may have opened it up far too much for

you.......you may miss the intensity ...

hope this helps

Janita

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi All,

snip

> Meanwhile, for my own sniffing and to try out with others, I've been

> using a clear sample vial which I filled about 4 months ago. I was

> calling the blend a cologne and realized it should be diluted much

> further to be used as such. The sample vial I diluted it to about 15%

> -- still strong, I know - plus a few drops of water, to see how that

> would be. The degree of dilution may not be relevant, but I thought I'd

> mention it in case it is.

snip

e

Hi e,

I am a novice myself but adding water to a blend sounds wrong, I think

it might cause it to go bad very quickly.

Water is one thing that I never let anywhere near my blending area,

just in case a drop gets in by mistake.

I remember when I was a kid adding water to a bottle of my sisters

Chloe because I had spilled some, the perfume clouded up and smelled

awful in a couple of days and of needless to say I was caught.

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

--- Ruth Ruane <ruth@...> wrote:

snip

> I remember when I was a kid adding water to a bottle

> of my sisters

> Chloe because I had spilled some, the perfume

> clouded up and smelled

> awful in a couple of days and of needless to say I

> was caught.

>

> Ruth

I am laughing to myself after reading Ruth's msg

above. And I was reminded of the time I had spilled

my brother's Jovan which I was surreptitiously helping

myself to. I didn't add any water to the cologne but

it wasn't hard to find out who had spilled it - they

just followed the sillage!

But...then I suppose that many of us here, who focus

so intently on the way things smell, have

perfume-related stories from childhood. Besides

having spilled my brother's cologne, I did also

attempt to figure out how to make perfume...the first

attempt was to cram lots and lots of clover flowers

into a small bottle and adding water from a garden

hose. Strangely enough, when I opened the bottle a

week later it was definitely *not* perfume in there.

Then there was the attempt to make rose perfume, by

stuffing a jar full of rose petals, and then adding a

mixture of water and kerosene. It did not explode,

I'm happy to say, but then again, it was not perfume

in there.

Being able to be on this list and being able to buy

the best natural fragrance materials is, really, the

fulfillment of a childhood dream!

Alfred

in sunny San Francisco where it was 34 F this morning

[Guest guest]

Ruth Ruane <ruth@...> wrote:

>

> Hi All,

snip

> Meanwhile, for my own sniffing and to try out with others, I've been

> using a clear sample vial which I filled about 4 months ago. I was

> calling the blend a cologne and realized it should be diluted much

> further to be used as such. The sample vial I diluted it to about 15%

> -- still strong, I know - plus a few drops of water, to see how that

> would be. The degree of dilution may not be relevant, but I thought I'd

> mention it in case it is.

snip

e

Hi e,

I am a novice myself but adding water to a blend sounds wrong, I think

it might cause it to go bad very quickly.

Water is one thing that I never let anywhere near my blending area,

just in case a drop gets in by mistake.

I remember when I was a kid adding water to a bottle of my sisters

Chloe because I had spilled some, the perfume clouded up and smelled

awful in a couple of days and of needless to say I was caught.

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

Dear Ruth

Water based alcohol is a component in a cologne............................

Usually a percentage amountof water causes cloudiness......when put in a

refrigerator for a few weeks it will clarify.

If it was 96% proof which I am not sure as my memory is not serving me well

she mentions just a drop (distilled or tap?) then that shouldn't make that much

difference...... If it was a lot then theoretically it would go cloudy.......

and if exposed to too much air then possibly bacteria...... but somehow I doubt

that one.....

but by all means if someone else has a better theory..... do chime in...

Janita

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Alfred Eberle <uruziam@...> wrote:

--- Ruth Ruane wrote:

snip

> I remember when I was a kid adding water to a bottle

> of my sisters

> Chloe because I had spilled some, the perfume

> clouded up and smelled

> awful in a couple of days and of needless to say I

> was caught.

>

> Ruth

.. And I was reminded of the time I had spilled

my brother's Jovan which I was surreptitiously helping

myself to. I didn't add any water to the cologne but

it wasn't hard to find out who had spilled it - they

just followed the sillage!

>>>>>>>>>>>have

perfume-related stories from childhood. Besides

Then there was the attempt to make rose perfume, by

stuffing a jar full of rose petals, and then adding a

mixture of water and kerosene. It did not explode,

I'm happy to say, but then again, it was not perfume

in there.

Being able to be on this list and being able to buy

the best natural fragrance materials is, really, the

fulfillment of a childhood dream!

Alfred

in sunny San Francisco where it was 34 F this morning

touche Alfred...........lovely story Ruth

My mother was one of the very first Airline stewardesses for TWA (she was

gorgeous).... when she travelled and came home she always brought me 1. a doll

in traditional dress which I immediateley undressed whether glued on or not

......(and 2.... perfume samples from the plane .....

heaven................... my delight was soir de Paris for me when she came

back from Paris in the divine dark blue bottle with silver label and half

moon......oh I loved all of that more than anything......... the samples. the

soir de paris..... the perfumes......a little girl in perfume heaven.

Janita

---------------------------------

All new " The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease

of use. " - PC Magazine

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi All,

> snip

> > Meanwhile, for my own sniffing and to try out with others, I've been

> > using a clear sample vial which I filled about 4 months ago. I was

> > calling the blend a cologne and realized it should be diluted much

> > further to be used as such. The sample vial I diluted it to about 15%

> > -- still strong, I know - plus a few drops of water, to see how that

> > would be. The degree of dilution may not be relevant, but I

thought I'd

> > mention it in case it is.

> snip

>

> e

>

> Hi e,

>

> I am a novice myself but adding water to a blend sounds wrong, I think

> it might cause it to go bad very quickly.

>

> Water is one thing that I never let anywhere near my blending area,

> just in case a drop gets in by mistake.

>

> I remember when I was a kid adding water to a bottle of my sisters

> Chloe because I had spilled some, the perfume clouded up and smelled

> awful in a couple of days and of needless to say I was caught.

>

> Ruth

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

>

>

>

>

> Dear Ruth

>

> Water based alcohol is a component in a

cologne............................

snip

Janita

>

But is using water based alcohol the same as adding a few drops of

water to a finished blend?

It still doesn't seem right to me.

And furthemore what is " water based alcohol " ?

Where are the alcohol experts when we need them...

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Perfume Basics

Parfume Extrait - 15-30% alcohol / 5-10% water

Eau d’ Parfume - 8-15% alcohol / 10-20% water

Eau d’ Toilette = 4-8% alcohol / 10-20% water

Eau d’ Cologne - 3-5% alcohol / 20-30% water

Do the math. If you are making a cologne with a high

proof alcohol, you will need to add water. Distilled

water or floral hydrosol, each work fine.

It is common and often necessary to add water to

perfume......

Do not forget to factor in the water already in the

alcohol, and you are fine.

Just add it in small drops, blend and add more until

you have the desired amount. Adding it all at once

will cause clouding. the clouding will sometimes

settle, but not always.....

Best, Z....

Zz’s Petals

http://www.zzspetals.com

Peace Angel Farm

http://www.peaceangelfarm.com

Zz's Petals, Natural Perfumery....

http://www.zzspetals.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> Perfume Basics

> Parfume Extrait - 15-30% alcohol / 5-10% water

> Eau d' Parfume - 8-15% alcohol / 10-20% water

> Eau d' Toilette = 4-8% alcohol / 10-20% water

> Eau d' Cologne - 3-5% alcohol / 20-30% water

>

>

> Do the math. If you are making a cologne with a high

> proof alcohol, you will need to add water. Distilled

> water or floral hydrosol, each work fine.

>

> It is common and often necessary to add water to

> perfume......

> Best, Z....

> Zz's Petals

> http://www.zzspetals.com

Ok now I see...of course it makes sense. Thanks!

It just goes to show you how far away I am away from making alcohol

based fragrances.

That is a whole new ball game! I really haven't touch upon yet.

Maybe next year I can make it over to do the 2nd and 3rd levels of

Mandy Aftels course...OH I WISH!

...and best

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

Hi e,

I am a novice myself but adding water to a blend sounds wrong, I think

it might cause it to go bad very quickly.

Water is one thing that I never let anywhere near my blending area,

just in case a drop gets in by mistake.

I remember when I was a kid adding water to a bottle of my sisters

Chloe because I had spilled some, the perfume clouded up and smelled

awful in a couple of days and of needless to say I was caught.

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

Thanks for your comments. I normally do not add water either.

However, I've noticed that it is pretty standard in formulas for

cologne to state that 25% of the diluting factor should be water --

this made sense to me if we think of someone wanting to splash the

cologne on themselves a bit, though actually in this sample vial I put

in less than that. Some perfume formulas also suggest adding water.

So I wouldn't expect that it would cause problems or this kind of

problem, anyway. There was no bad smell, just the changes I've

mentioned.

But, again, there's got to be some reason and maybe you, too, are

right. I certainly appreciate the suggestion.

Thanks, Ruth,

e

Re: Clouding. If you add it cautiously, it's been said here that you

may avoid clouding or it will clear. My vial did cloud but cleared by

itself.