Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

[Guest guest]

Poor Vern he has more than his hands full. Trying to represent a group like ours would be like herding cats . No offense to cats or Chiros.s. fuchs dc Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 17, 2010, at 4:03 PM, "Lyle Zurflu" <drzurflu@...> wrote: If the consensus of this group is that we're no more than a bunch of metaphysical cultists looks like Verns got his hands full. Lyle Zurflu, D.C.From: "bluepearl2001cs" <bluepearl2001cs>hbf4747msn; Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 3:17:39 PMSubject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies Amen, Herb. As I recall, I was told that WSCC used to induct all students in the healing art called REIKI, understanding the importance of enhancing intuition, subtle palpation and one's ability to transmit healing energy by touch. WSCC has moved to the far right (using a political metaphor) of its origins. I guess it's like so many things in our world right now where 'seeing is believing' and if it ain't proven by double blind, peer reviewed folks, it ain't true or is suspect. Funny thing though, the a lot of the same folks believe that most of allopathic medicine has withstood such research and review--which is clearly has NOT--and also accept that God exists even though there is no tangible, empirical evidence of his/her existence. Then there are those who refuse to accept as 'truth' scientific knowledge that most people of even average intellect accept as such. It's an amazing world we live in. And as we see here, the flip side of celebrating great diversity of technique is boxing oneself into a restrictive, judgmental and dogmatic "belief" systems. Just my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.Ann DC 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not changed the subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons. I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young girl.Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has suffered from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do nothing for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and soy, her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family history. She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy and her nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a hypersensitive individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother is at the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is displaying similar symptoms. I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated erythema in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a fluid line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral endonasal and cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM looked normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.Thank you in advance for your time! DeJana, DC

[Guest guest]

All in all Vern has done a pretty decent job representing this wild group of chiro-cats over the last couple years. Schneider DCOn Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...> wrote:

 

Poor Vern he has more than his hands full. Trying to represent a group like ours would be like herding cats . No offense to cats or Chiros.s. fuchs dc Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2010, at 4:03 PM, " Lyle Zurflu " <drzurflu@...> wrote:

 

If the consensus of this group is that we're no more than a bunch of metaphysical cultists looks like Verns got his hands full. 

Lyle Zurflu, D.C.

From: " bluepearl2001cs " <bluepearl2001cs>

hbf4747@...; Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 3:17:39 PM

Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

 

Amen, Herb.

 

As I recall, I was told that WSCC used to induct all students in the healing art called REIKI, understanding the importance of enhancing intuition, subtle palpation and one's ability to transmit healing energy by touch. WSCC has moved to the far right (using a political metaphor) of its origins.

 

I guess it's like so many things in our world right now where 'seeing is believing' and if it ain't proven by double blind, peer reviewed folks, it ain't true or is suspect. 

 

Funny thing though, the a lot of the same folks believe that most of allopathic medicine has withstood such research and review--which is clearly has NOT--and also accept that God exists even though there is no tangible, empirical evidence of his/her existence.  Then there are those who refuse to accept as 'truth' scientific knowledge that most people of even average intellect accept as such.

 

It's an amazing world we live in.  And as we see here, the flip side of celebrating great diversity of technique is boxing oneself into a restrictive, judgmental and dogmatic " belief " systems.

 

Just my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.

Ann DC

2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

 

Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not changed the subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young girl.

Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has suffered from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do nothing for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and soy, her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family history. She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy and her nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a hypersensitive individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother is at the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is displaying  similar symptoms.

I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated erythema in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a fluid line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral endonasal and cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM looked normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.

Thank you in advance for your time!

DeJana, DC

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Hi All: Let's keep it civil.

-Phil: you are a bright doc. You do not need to use unprofessional language. I

hope your apology is forthcoming. Please do not use that term in future.

Les: So many of us, truly appreciate your amazing knowledge, skill and passion.

You truly are a visionary. But when you are angry, even when justified (none of

us enjoys being called names), you should step away from the keyboard ;-)

moderator.

>

> Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not changed the

> subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

>

> I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young girl.

>

> Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has suffered

> from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do nothing

> for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and soy,

> her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family history.

> She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy and her

> nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a hypersensitive

> individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother is at

> the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is displaying

> similar symptoms.

>

> I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated erythema

> in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a fluid

> line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral endonasal and

> cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM looked

> normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.

>

> Thank you in advance for your time!

>

> DeJana, DC

>

[Guest guest]

I have read 's emails several times and I missed the

"unprofessional language". Please enlighten me, off line if necessary

if you choose not to repeat it in a public forum.

Regarding your asking for an apology: No request of same from

Les, whose response to 's email was not at all what I would

expect from a professional? offered his opinion of Les's

technique. Les responded by attacking on a personal level.

Bruce Chaser, D.C.

spbkchiro97132 wrote:

Hi All: Let's keep it civil.

-Phil: you are a bright doc. You do not need to use unprofessional

language. I hope your apology is forthcoming. Please do not use that

term in future.

Les: So many of us, truly appreciate your amazing knowledge, skill and

passion. You truly are a visionary. But when you are angry, even when

justified (none of us enjoys being called names), you should step away

from the keyboard ;-)

moderator.

>

> Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not

changed the

> subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

>

> I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young

girl.

>

> Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She

has suffered

> from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics

do nothing

> for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy

and soy,

> her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the

family history.

> She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always

weepy and her

> nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a

hypersensitive

> individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her

mother is at

> the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is

displaying

> similar symptoms.

>

> I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated

erythema

> in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up,

a fluid

> line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral

endonasal and

> cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM

looked

> normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.

>

> Thank you in advance for your time!

>

> DeJana, DC

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly!

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of bluepearl2001@...

Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:08 PM

drzurflu@...;

Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and

allergies

A

foot in both the scientific and metaphysical worlds is where most of us stand

in ALL things. Why not also in the Chiropractic realm? Even

the allopaths are doing research on the power of prayer to heal. Nurses

are trained in " Therapeutic Touch " , which is the 'laying of

hands'. Hello...

Let

it be.

Ann

DC

2 year old with chronic ear infections and

allergies

Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not

changed the subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young girl.

Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has suffered

from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do nothing

for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and soy, her

mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family history. She

also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy and her nose is

constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a hypersensitive individual. Her

insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother is at the end of her rope.

She has another infant daughter who is displaying similar symptoms.

I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated erythema in

bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a fluid line could

not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral endonasal and cervical

spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM looked normal and much

improved. No change noted in the right TM.

Thank you in advance for your time!

DeJana, DC

[Guest guest]

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apology

and then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have an

opportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquent

diatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was reminded

of a line from an old McMurtry song:

Well, i hadn't intended

To bend the rules

But whiskey don't make liars

It just makes fools

So i didn't mean to say it

But i meant what i said

I do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum by

referring to Less's methods as " BS " . I do wish that I had chosen my

words differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit of

even-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal with

Less's quote " ...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so

that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,

bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?

> >

> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not

changed

> the

> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

> >

> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young

girl.

> >

> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has

> suffered

> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do

> nothing

> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and

soy,

> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family

> history.

> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy

and

> her

> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a

hypersensitive

> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother

is at

> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is

displaying

> > similar symptoms.

> >

> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated

> erythema

> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a

fluid

> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral

endonasal

> and

> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM

looked

> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your time!

> >

> > DeJana, DC

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Come on guys. Enough already.

Vern has told me on a number of occasions to just hit the delete key, but can't

you two take this pissing match somewhere else?

Calling each other names only dilutes your intelligence.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ron Grice, DC

Albany, OR

[Guest guest]

Dr. Phil,

" ...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so that

some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic, bigoted, and

fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " And, what part of

that statement you allege is not true??? Seems a pretty objective

characterization to me. I was just having a nice collegial dialog with a

fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only me but virtually

everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I don’t mind

getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic approaches are

effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy brining a little

light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but your responses tend

to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and more like insulting

grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made to you, perhaps you

should look at how you provoked it?

I don’t expect my replies to you to change your opinion or

open you to new thinking. You do make a reliable and convenient foil for exposition

of the reactionary wing of our profession and the disrespect and fratricidal

attitude it harbors to the core principle of chiropractic. In that way

you’ve served your purpose. I think this discussion has found its

natural conclusion.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnell

Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM

Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and

allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which

asked for an apology

and then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have an

opportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquent

diatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was reminded

of a line from an old McMurtry song:

Well, i hadn't intended

To bend the rules

But whiskey don't make liars

It just makes fools

So i didn't mean to say it

But i meant what i said

I do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum by

referring to Less's methods as " BS " . I do wish that I had chosen my

words differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit of

even-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal with

Less's quote " ...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so

that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,

bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?

> >

> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not

changed

> the

> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

> >

> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young

girl.

> >

> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has

> suffered

> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do

> nothing

> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and

soy,

> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family

> history.

> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy

and

> her

> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a

hypersensitive

> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother

is at

> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is

displaying

> > similar symptoms.

> >

> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated

> erythema

> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a

fluid

> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral

endonasal

> and

> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM

looked

> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your time!

> >

> > DeJana, DC

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

,

With all due respect how is any of this NMT business chiropractic at all? Albeit, i've personally had patients who have benefited from the technique, it is NOT a chiropractic technique. There are many various health professions that also utilize it. I think it's important for the public to know that. I see both sides of you and Phil's points of view. I don't have a problem with ANYONE who wishes to push the limits of the stratosphere and probe a metaphysical unknown in the pursuit of health. I do have a problem with that pursuit being espoused as part and parcel of the profession of Chiropractic.

Hence,it's extremely important to educate patients that what you are doing is NOT common in the practice of Chiropractic and indeed majorly seperate. I've had folks come in post eccentric chiropractic appointments as well, and although it takes very little time to win them back over again, I wonder why the doctor just didn't inform them that "this is not what you will find in most D.C's offices. I'm doing something a little different..yadayada yada.

My couple o cents.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

RE: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

Dr. Phil,

"...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic, bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " And, what part of that statement you allege is not true??? Seems a pretty objective characterization to me. I was just having a nice collegial dialog with a fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only me but virtually everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I don’t mind getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic approaches are effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy brining a little light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but your responses tend to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and more like insulting grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made to you, perhaps you should look at how you provoked it?

I don’t expect my replies to you to change your opinion or open you to new thinking. You do make a reliable and convenient foil for exposition of the reactionary wing of our profession and the disrespect and fratricidal attitude it harbors to the core principle of chiropractic. In that way you’ve served your purpose. I think this discussion has found its natural conclusion.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnellSent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >>

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[Guest guest]

Correction:

I meant NET Neuro Emotional Technique

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

RE: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

Dr. Phil,

"...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic, bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " And, what part of that statement you allege is not true??? Seems a pretty objective characterization to me. I was just having a nice collegial dialog with a fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only me but virtually everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I don’t mind getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic approaches are effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy brining a little light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but your responses tend to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and more like insulting grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made to you, perhaps you should look at how you provoked it?

I don’t expect my replies to you to change your opinion or open you to new thinking. You do make a reliable and convenient foil for exposition of the reactionary wing of our profession and the disrespect and fratricidal attitude it harbors to the core principle of chiropractic. In that way you’ve served your purpose. I think this discussion has found its natural conclusion.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnellSent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Joe,

Since you have not been to my office, nor have we ever spoken about

it, it seems that you have made something up in your mind about what I tell or

don’t tell my patients, perhaps without realizing that you have

made these assumptions and judgments and then you are announcing them to the

board as if they were facts. Just so you can think about this based on

some knowledge, I am copying below the informed consent document that every

patient is required to sign before their first NMT session.

By the way, there are lots of things that chiropractors do

consistent with the letter and intent of chiropractic scope of practice

including mind-body training, coaching, counseling, brain wave training,

biofeedback which are certainly not typical chiropractic therapies. The

fact that some patients may expect that chiropractic treatment requires a hot

pack and back crack hardly makes that the standard of what chiropractic should

be limited to. We do many things and most of us do our best to explain to

our patients what we do.

Here is that document. I hope you take a few moments to

read it. I think I put a lot more effort into explaining what I am doing

and not doing to my patients than many DCs.

Informed

Consent Agreement

NMT:

The Feinberg Method Local and Remote Session Consent Form

I

understand that NeuroModulation Technique (“NMT”) is intended to

determine the patient’s mind-body perceptions of internal conditions that

may be contributing to illness behaviors and to attempt to establish

perceptions that may be more conducive to health. I understand that NMT

that is conducted either on a local in-office or a remote basis in which I do

not attend the practitioner’s office and further stipulate that I

understand that the remote NMT session is not considered to be a medical

treatment, or therapy of any kind. I understand that the remote NMT

session is considered a telephone consultation and that this is the service

which I hereby request and for which I am being charged and will pay for.

I am requesting local and/or remote NMT sessions from

_______________________________________located

at:__________________________________. Remote sessions may be conducted

via telephone when I am unable or do not wish to physically visit his

clinic. Specifically, I understand that these NMT sessions are

informational in nature and not in any way to be considered chiropractic,

acupuncture, or medical treatments of any kind.

I

understand that under no circumstances is it appropriate to bill my medical

insurance for any remote NMT sessions and agree that I will not submit such

bills to my insurance. Further, I understand that remote and in-office

NMT sessions may be considered investigational and may not be paid by my health

or other insurance.

The

NMT procedure has been explained to me, and I understand that certain adverse

effects may be associated with local or remote NMT sessions that could include,

but are not limited to, a temporary flare-up of my symptoms. Other

possible side effects include symptoms of heightened immune function or

detoxification such as fever, chills, headache or body aches. I

understand, and agree, that if any unexpected exacerbation of my symptoms

should occur, if any medical emergency should occur, that I am solely

responsible for obtaining appropriate medical care to address those symptoms or

conditions, and will do so in a timely manner.

I

understand that medical diagnosis requires particular types of clinical

examination procedures by a physician trained in diagnosis and that NMT: The

Feinberg Method is not a medical diagnostic procedure, does not diagnose any

disease, and that NMT evaluation procedures are not a substitute for physical

examination, laboratory testing, medical imaging or other diagnostic procedures.

By contrast, NMT is intended to determine the patient’s mind-body

perception of conditions that may be contributing to illness. I

understand that Muscle Response Testing, (“MRT”) employed in NMT is

not 100% accurate and is only an indication of patient perceptions and not an

objective measure of body conditions. I understand that my local or

remote NMT sessions may utilize surrogate muscle response testing in which

muscle response from the NMT practitioner or other third party is used as an

indicator of response to the semantic queries and statements the practitioner

verbally delivers to me. I understand that local or remote NMT sessions

should be considered investigational or experimental and that the efficacy of

such services has not been established in published scientific literature.

I

understand that alternative methods of treatment are available and have been

described to me. If I am suffering from severe allergic reactions to food

or other substances, or any health condition for which I have been prescribed

medications to control dangerous symptoms, I will consult an

Please initial after reading this page__________

appropriate

physician and, if so advised, take medication (to prevent itching, tissue

swelling, fever, cough, pains, etc.) to keep my symptoms under control while I

am receiving remote NMT sessions .

I

understand that determination of the existence and identification of particular

infectious agents or cancer in the body requires specific medical laboratory

testing. NMT: The Feinberg Technique does not diagnose any infectious

agent, or cancer, nor is it a substitute for appropriate laboratory

testing. Rather, NMT evaluates the patient’s mind-body perceptions

with regard to such issues and attempts to direct a more effective immune

system response by changing mind-body self awareness.

NMT:

The Feinberg Technique is not a method of diagnosing or treating cancer.

Medical oncologists are the only health care personnel appropriately trained to

manage the treatment of cancer. NMT is not a substitute for appropriate

medical care of cancer, or any other health care condition. I understand

that I am not being asked to discontinue any concurrent medical care.

Moreover, I understand that it is recommended that I do not discontinue any

care prescribed by my doctors.

I

agree to cooperate and take an active role while receiving remote NMT sessions

by maintaining a positive attitude toward healing, continuing contact with and

treatment from my other medical practitioners, and communicating progress and

any possible side effects or new symptoms that may or may not be related to my

NMT session to my NMT practitioner. I understand that I am to continue

all medication and other treatment modalities as they have been prescribed

unless otherwise directed by the doctor who prescribed them. I also

understand that improvement in my health resulting from the NMT treatment I am

requesting, may result in a change in my requirement for medications other

providers have prescribed for me, and will consult that medical provider to see

if a change in medication or medication dosage is necessary.

I

understand that there is no guarantee concerning the effects of the

treatment. I understand that I am free to discontinue NMT sessions at any

time, but acknowledge that I am responsible for full payment of the normal and

necessary fees associated with my NMT sessions . I understand that if I

terminate treatment without the recommendation of my NMT practitioner, that

this may adversely influence the degree or durability of my improvement.

I agree that if I have allergies causing dangerous symptoms such as

anaphylactic response, or any condition that is aggravated by certain

activities or exposures, that I will not expose myself to such risk of

aggravation except as advised by my NMT practitioner under controlled and

defined circumstances. I understand that if I expose myself to such

aggravating factors prematurely, this may pose a risk to my health.

I

understand that any services that are being provided on a local or remote basis

are my sole financial responsibility, and that no aspect of such services may

be billed to insurance companies for the purposes of reimbursement. I

understand and authorize all charges for this service to be billed to the

credit card account I have provided or that such services will be paid by the

time the service is provided by other means. I understand that these

charges will be billed under the name:_________________________________________

at the rate of:_____________. I understand and agree that office policy

requires 24 hour notice to cancel a previously scheduled appointment and I will

be charged the full fee for such appointments canceled without 24 hour notice.

I

further agree to be interviewed during this teleconference, and that this

interview and my voice may be audiotaped. I understand that these

recorded audiotapes may be used for

telephone

Please initial

after reading this page__________

consultation

evaluation, research, and NMT training purposes only, at both the transmitting

and receiving or other facilities, and that my identity will not be disclosed

except where medically necessary or by my permission. I understand that

without prior written consent, said recorded tapes will not be broadcast or

otherwise played outside the health care or educational setting.

I

understand that the NMT session results in the selection of portions of the NMT

protocol that the NMT practitioner finds appropriate for me and that this

information is communicated to my mind-body by way of intention. I

further understand that if the NMT Scalar Treeview system is used in my NMT

care that this computerized system will simply assemble this information that

has comprised my NMT session in the form of an mp3 or other format audio data

file. That data file may be provided to me for the purpose of playing on

a media player using a special scalar antenna. The purpose of this use of

the audio data file is modulate the scalar field produced by use of the file

with the scalar antenna in such a way as to create a scalar representation of that

NMT session information. I understand that the scalar field has no known

medical effect and that the purpose of using this scalar output of the audio

data file is based on the unproven possibility that this scalar representation

of the data from my NMT sessions might be perceivable by my mind-body and if

so, might thereby reinforce any informational training effect that such NMT

sessions may have. I also understand that if I perceive any adverse

effect that I associate with the use of this scalar playback that I will

immediately stop using it and notify my NMT practitioner.

I also

understand that clinical data is presently being collected on the NMT method

that requires the gathering of certain information in accordance with research

protocols. I understand that the results of this study may be published

in a medical or scientific journal and that a number or letter designating my

case, but not my name, may be used in reports of this study and hereby give my

permission for the use of such information.

I have

read, or have had read to me, the above statements, and have been provided with

the opportunity to ask any pertinent questions I have regarding this NMT

screening and treatment program. I have been informed that I am to

contact the doctor if any problems are encountered during or after my NMT

sessions and agree to do so. I understand the conditions

stated above, and hereby consent to participate in these local and/or remote

NMT sessions. By signing below I agree to the terms, procedures, and

permissions set forth above.

IN

WITNESS WHEREOF, I have executed the foregoing this _____day of

_________________, _______.

______________________________________________

__________________________________________

Patient’s

Signature

Patient’s

Printed Name

______________________________________________

__________________________________________

If

minor, signature of parent or guardian Parent

or Guardian’s Printed Name

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of joe

medlin

Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:19 AM

'drpsnell'; ; S. Feinberg

Subject: Re: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections

and allergies

,

With all due respect how is

any of this NMT business chiropractic at all? Albeit, i've personally had

patients who have benefited from the technique, it is NOT a chiropractic

technique. There are many various health professions that also utilize it. I

think it's important for the public to know that. I see both sides of you and

Phil's points of view. I don't have a problem with ANYONE who wishes

to push the limits of the stratosphere and probe a metaphysical unknown in the

pursuit of health. I do have a problem with that pursuit being espoused as part

and parcel of the profession of Chiropractic.

Hence,it's extremely important

to educate patients that what you are doing is NOT common in the practice of

Chiropractic and indeed majorly seperate. I've had folks come in post

eccentric chiropractic appointments as well, and although it takes very little

time to win them back over again, I wonder why the doctor just didn't inform

them that " this is not what you will find in most D.C's offices. I'm doing

something a little different..yadayada yada.

My couple o cents.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

-----

Original Message -----

From: S. Feinberg

'drpsnell'

;

Sent: Tuesday, April 20,

2010 6:52 AM

Subject: RE:

Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

Dr.. Phil,

" ....my response was to draw out

Dr. Phil's ignorance so that some of these people can see what a narrow minded

dogmatic, bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being

" And, what part of that statement you allege is not true???

Seems a pretty objective characterization to me. I was just having a nice

collegial dialog with a fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only

me but virtually everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I

don’t mind getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic

approaches are effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy

brining a little light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but

your responses tend to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and

more like insulting grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made

to you, perhaps you should look at how you provoked it?

I don’t expect my replies to you

to change your opinion or open you to new thinking. You do make a

reliable and convenient foil for exposition of the reactionary wing of our

profession and the disrespect and fratricidal attitude it harbors to the core

principle of chiropractic. In that way you’ve served your

purpose. I think this discussion has found its natural conclusion.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnell

Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM

Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and

allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apology

and then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have an

opportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquent

diatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was reminded

of a line from an old McMurtry song:

Well, i hadn't intended

To bend the rules

But whiskey don't make liars

It just makes fools

So i didn't mean to say it

But i meant what i said

I do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum by

referring to Less's methods as " BS " . I do wish that I had chosen my

words differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit of

even-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal with

Less's quote " ...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so

that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,

bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?

> >

> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had not

changed

> the

> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.

> >

> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this young

girl.

> >

> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has

> suffered

> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do

> nothing

> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy and

soy,

> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family

> history.

> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepy

and

> her

> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be a

hypersensitive

> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her mother

is at

> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who is

displaying

> > similar symptoms.

> >

> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated

> erythema

> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, a

fluid

> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateral

endonasal

> and

> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TM

looked

> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your time!

> >

> > DeJana, DC

> >

>

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http://www.iolo.com

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Scanned by iolo System Shield®

http://www.iolo.com

[Guest guest]

Hey Joe,While I've never taken any of Dr. Feinberg's courses, I did have the occasion to see him at work with a very ill patient of mine that was stymied in her care with the allopaths. This patient's severe and disabling symptoms were greatly improved within hours following Dr. Feinberg's interactions her. Put aside, if you will, that lots of things can get patients better. What has stayed with me as a witness to her interview, during which Dr. Feinberg muscle-tested the patient repeatedly as she let her body be questioned, was the depth of refined systems-review in the questions asked. It was the most comprehensive and wholistically consistent review of systems I have ever experienced. Just the questions asked would constitute a full semester of training in differential diagnosis. I came away from the session understanding that this approach is based in a foundation of knowledge that lies at the core of our current human understanding of disease and disability, regardless of the profession represented.We all have our approaches to helping patients, some are more subtle than others. What we share professionally is a well-established history of bringing forth the natural healing potentials latent in each of us. Care of the human frame has been a valuable service to humanity, but we are in no way limited to the frame as the means of potentiating innate healing. How we are limited, however, is to a body of knowledge that is shared by all physicians as the basis of our work. It is from this shared knowledge that Dr. Feinberg's remarkable successes come forward, IMHO.I think the take-home from this thread more properly lies in asking ourselves what our intentions are with the patient in front of each of us. As well, we need to ask, does the patient share in that intention? What this thread has provided is the knowledge that shared intention is a powerful means of interacting with patients in very beneficial ways. If that intention is based in a solid and comprehensive understanding of human physiology, then boundaries will fade and what seem like remarkable advancements will be revealed. We're all reductionists until we see that a larger view is consistent with the innate healing capacities of humanity. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Apr 20, 2010, at 8:19 AM, joe medlin wrote: , With all due respect how is any of this NMT business chiropractic at all? Albeit, i've personally had patients who have benefited from the technique, it is NOT a chiropractic technique. There are many various health professions that also utilize it. I think it's important for the public to know that. I see both sides of you and Phil's points of view. I don't have a problem with ANYONE who wishes to push the limits of the stratosphere and probe a metaphysical unknown in the pursuit of health. I do have a problem with that pursuit being espoused as part and parcel of the profession of Chiropractic. Hence,it's extremely important to educate patients that what you are doing is NOT common in the practice of Chiropractic and indeed majorly seperate. I've had folks come in post eccentric chiropractic appointments as well, and although it takes very little time to win them back over again, I wonder why the doctor just didn't inform them that "this is not what you will find in most D.C's offices. I'm doing something a little different..yadayada yada. My couple o cents. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800 RE: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies Dr. Phil,"...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic, bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " And, what part of that statement you allege is not true??? Seems a pretty objective characterization to me. I was just having a nice collegial dialog with a fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only me but virtually everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I don’t mind getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic approaches are effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy brining a little light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but your responses tend to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and more like insulting grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made to you, perhaps you should look at how you provoked it?I don’t expect my replies to you to change your opinion or open you to new thinking. You do make a reliable and convenient foil for exposition of the reactionary wing of our profession and the disrespect and fratricidal attitude it harbors to the core principle of chiropractic. In that way you’ve served your purpose. I think this discussion has found its natural conclusion. S. Feinberg, D.C. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnellSent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >> No infection found in this incoming messageScanned by iolo System Shield®http://www.iolo.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Dan, Joe and Les,I just now checked the list serve emails (haven't checked in over 6 months!), and I find this very interesting dialogue about mind-body techniques. I am not sure why Joe mentioned NET, as the discussion was primarily regarding NMT. However, I invite you all to visit our research website for N.E.T. (NeuroEmotional Technique): www.onefoundation.orgTo clarify my official position. I am not on the board of directors for NET. I am the president of the O.N.E. Research Foundation which raises monies to conduct and publish peer-reviewed research. On our website, you will find abstracts of several studies that have already been published in peer-reviewed journals. N.E.T. is a technique founded on the principles of D.D. Palmer's original paradigm for Chiropractic (he was the "father" of Chiropractic after-all).We are also excited to announce that we should be publishing this year our first RCT study in a major scientific journal which will put Chiropractic on the map so-to-speak. It is a LBP study with NET (as a chiropractic technique) as the ONLY intervention and we got fantastic results with standardized outcome assessments, Blood work and Urine testing. We have three more RCT studies that have finished data collection and are in the process of being submitted for publication!!! Hurray for Chiropractic!Respectfully, Knecht, DC, PCPresident O.N.E. Research Foundationwww.onefoundation.org

Knecht DC Namaste Chiropractic 1809 NW Portland, OR 97209 503-226-8010

To lose one's health renders -

science null,

art inglorious,

strength effortless,

wealth useless

and

eloquence powerless!

Herophilus of Chalcedon

3rd century B.C.

drpsnell@...; ; feinberg@...; spinetree@...From: spinetree@...Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 09:01:16 -0700Subject: Re: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

Correction:

I meant NET Neuro Emotional Technique

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

RE: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

Dr. Phil,

"...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic, bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " And, what part of that statement you allege is not true??? Seems a pretty objective characterization to me. I was just having a nice collegial dialog with a fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only me but virtually everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I don’t mind getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic approaches are effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy brining a little light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but your responses tend to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and more like insulting grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made to you, perhaps you should look at how you provoked it?

I don’t expect my replies to you to change your opinion or open you to new thinking. You do make a reliable and convenient foil for exposition of the reactionary wing of our profession and the disrespect and fratricidal attitude it harbors to the core principle of chiropractic. In that way you’ve served your purpose. I think this discussion has found its natural conclusion.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnellSent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Les,

I was not insinuating that YOU didn't inform your patients, sorry for that. Just making a sweeping generalization that "far out" kind of stuff should be explained as being on the "edge" and not typical of chiropractic care so that jo shmo doesn't walk away thinking we're all a bunch of wackos. It appears you do inform them somewhat. good. Not saying that chiropractic isn't beyond a Hot pack and Crack, but it also gets a bit extreme and hokey pokey snake oil sometimes with things that are wayyyy out there. Okay? We are now going to delve into a person's psyche to help free up a vertebrae?

"By the way, there are lots of things that chiropractors do consistent with the letter and intent of chiropractic scope of practice including mind-body training, coaching, counseling, brain wave training, biofeedback which are certainly not typical chiropractic therapies."

Well, Perhaps we should stop trying to be everything and all things to our patients. Perhaps there are other health professionals that may be better trained in coaching, counseling, brain training etc. THis seems to be very psychological in nature and i don't feel competent. I'm surprised at many that do after a chiropractic education and a few seminars.

I'm sure you help plenty of folks Les. Just saying that you are doing it as chiropractic being secondary.

Like Dr. Phil, I too am concerned as to the future of this great profession and am trying to practice with an evidence based approach in order to make it relevent in 20 years.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

RE: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

Dr.. Phil,

"....my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance so that some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic, bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " And, what part of that statement you allege is not true??? Seems a pretty objective characterization to me. I was just having a nice collegial dialog with a fellow DC when you once again chose to insult not only me but virtually everyone else on the vitalistic side of chiropractic. I don’t mind getting into a lively dialog with you about why vitalistic approaches are effective and what the science is behind them. I enjoy brining a little light into the dark recesses that exist in some minds, but your responses tend to be less along the lines of a debate on the science and more like insulting grunts. If you don’t like the statement I made to you, perhaps you should look at how you provoked it?

I don’t expect my replies to you to change your opinion or open you to new thinking. You do make a reliable and convenient foil for exposition of the reactionary wing of our profession and the disrespect and fratricidal attitude it harbors to the core principle of chiropractic. In that way you’ve served your purpose. I think this discussion has found its natural conclusion.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of drpsnellSent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >>

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Joe,"All a bunch of wackos"?Oh dear. AnnetteOn Apr 20, 2010, at 12:00 PM, joe medlin wrote:Hi Les, I was not insinuating that YOU didn't inform your patients, sorry for that. Just making a sweeping generalization that "far out" kind of stuff should be explained as being on the "edge" and not typical of chiropractic care so that jo shmo doesn't walk away thinking we're all a bunch of wackos. It appears you do inform them somewhat. good. Not saying that chiropractic isn't beyond a Hot pack and Crack, but it also gets a bit extreme and hokey pokey snake oil sometimes with things that are wayyyy out there. Okay? We are now going to delve into a person's psyche to help free up a vertebrae? "By the way, there are lots of things that chiropractors do consistent with the letter and intent of chiropractic scope of practice including mind-body training, coaching, counseling, brain wave training, biofeedback which are certainly not typical chiropractic therapies." Well, Perhaps we should stop trying to be everything and all things to our patients. Perhaps there are other health professionals that may be better trained in coaching, counseling, brain training etc. THis seems to be very psychological in nature and i don't feel competent. I'm surprised at many that do after a chiropractic education and a few seminars. I'm sure you help plenty of folks Les. Just saying that you are doing it as chiropractic being secondary. Like Dr. Phil, I too am concerned as to the future of this great profession and am trying to practice with an evidence based approach in order to make it relevent in 20 years. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800 Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >>No infection found in this incoming messageScanned by iolo System Shield®http://www.iolo.comNo infection found in this incoming messageScanned by iolo System Shield®http://www.iolo.com

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Yep.

Have heard it many times from people.

Oh dear is exactly right.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Re: 2 year old with chronic ear infections and allergies

So kids, after curious turn of events in which asked for an apologyand then inadvertently locked me out of the listserve, I have anopportunity to actually see the request for apology and Less's eloquentdiatribe in my absence. and I had a talk today and I was remindedof a line from an old McMurtry song:Well, i hadn't intendedTo bend the rulesBut whiskey don't make liarsIt just makes foolsSo i didn't mean to say itBut i meant what i saidI do think I overstepped the boundries of decorum in this forum byreferring to Less's methods as" BS". I do wish that I had chosen mywords differently. So there you have it. Now, in the spirit ofeven-handedness , how do you suppose is the fair way to deal withLess's quote "...my response was to draw out Dr. Phil's ignorance sothat some of these people can see what a narrow minded dogmatic,bigoted, and fratricidal person Dr. Phil insists on being " ?> >> > Hi all again. Minga was kind enough to point out that I had notchanged> the> > subject line and many may be over reading about PIP surgeons.> >> > I am asking for any treatment advice or wisdom to help this younggirl.> >> > Patient is a 2 year old female with chronic ear infections. She has> suffered> > from hearing loss as a result and is speech delayed. Anti-biotics do> nothing> > for her and the infections keep recurring. She is allergic dairy andsoy,> > her mother is unsure about wheat or gluten. Celiac is in the family> history.> > She also suffers from seasonal allergies, her eyes are always weepyand> her> > nose is constantly running. Overall, she appears to be ahypersensitive> > individual. Her insurance does not cover chiro or ND and her motheris at> > the end of her rope. She has another infant daughter who isdisplaying> > similar symptoms.> >> > I have seen her twice, otoscopic evaluation initially demonstrated> erythema> > in bilateral TM with no bulging visualized. Due to cerum build-up, afluid> > line could not be visualized. Treatment consisted of bilateralendonasal> and> > cervical spine manipulation. Follow-up appointment, the left TMlooked> > normal and much improved. No change noted in the right TM.> >> > Thank you in advance for your time!> >> > DeJana, DC> >>

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