Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Tisserand wrote: > Alcohol will extract chemicals from a plant that are not found in the equivalent > essential oil or absolute, such as alkaloids, and so a tincture may present risks > that the equivalent essential oil would not. > I wish these dangers did not exist, but they do, so if you're tincturing something > that you're not sure about, do some research on the safety profile of the plant, or > check with the group, and stay safe. This isn't just about the people who are going > to use your products, it's about you too. Because you're going to be handling the > material in greater quantity, your exposure is going to be greater. is making a *very* important point here..... When I saw the thread on tincturing calamus, I thought " WHAT!!!!??? " AT.... Lawless' " The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Essential Oils " , Sylla's " Aromatherapy Practioner's Manual " , Watts' " Plant Aromatics " ...taught/warned me a long time ago about the asarone....which is present, generally speaking, in the oil... I know it seems sometimes as though *everything* is dangerous in some fashion or another......but you always have to keep in mind that you're dealing with concentrated essences in many cases..... Or, as points out, differences in chemical profiles that can happen due to the method of extraction....an infusion will be different from a tincture will be different from a distillation and an absolute may be different again... One might find oneself walking the Way of the Venefice unknowingly... Can never hurt to do the extra homework...... -- W. Bourbonais L'Hermite Aromatique BTW....Sylla's AT Practioner Manual and Mr. Watts' Plant Aromatics are excellent and detailed sources for all kinds of info on EO and Absolute.....I think Butch is selling both on his website..... I do not have 's book... " Essential Oil Safety: A Guide for Helath Professionals " It's available from Amazon...And I have only ever heard good things about it..... The Lawless book, which is more almost a coffee table thing for EO.....still has important toxicity info on a fair selection of EO.....In fact, I often refer to it first, for a Q & D indication.... Nice pictures, too....there's been reportedly errors...I did find one incorrect picture myself.....It might be closer to what's known as an " AT novel " ....but as I said.....it has a lot of good info in it, also.... Can be had used off of Amazon for under $10.....In hardcover, yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 On 19/11/06, Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > From reading several recent posts it occurs to me that some group members may not be > familiar with the risks posed by some plants, and there are no safety guidelines in > perfumery that apply specifically to tinctures (though there may be some in herbal > medicine). Just as there are risks attached to some essential oils, tinctures are not all > totally safe either. Thank you for posting this . :-) Is it OK for me to put it into a word document and add it to the files, please? Thanks LLx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 snipped to correct topposting and quote: --- Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > I wish these dangers did not exist, but they do, so > if you're tincturing something that > you're not sure about, do some research on the > safety profile of the plant, or check with > the group, and stay safe. This isn't just about the > people who are going to use your > products, it's about you too. Because you're going > to be handling the material in greater > quantity, your exposure is going to be greater. > > Tisserand Right, let's not forget that arsenic, mercury, and strycnine are naturally occuring substances. One of the big commercial perfume houses has just released a fragrance base on cannibus and wormwood. Nice high :-) Won't take long for someone to try and smoke it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 > > From reading several recent posts it occurs to me that some group members may not be > > familiar with the risks posed by some plants, and there are no safety guidelines in > > perfumery that apply specifically to tinctures (though there may be some in herbal > > medicine). Just as there are risks attached to some essential oils, tinctures are not all > > totally safe either. > > Thank you for posting this . :-) > Is it OK for me to put it into a word document and add it to the files, please? > Thanks > LLx > Yes, certainly. R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 <snipped> is making a *very* important point here.... I do not have 's book... " Essential Oil Safety: A Guide for Helath Professionals " It's available from Amazon...And I have only ever heard good things About it..... Book Essential oil Safety . It is a lot moor than Just a book for heath care professionals. I do have this book. This book has served me well in fact I can go as far to say book wise it was the best money I ever spent! It has been my companion from doing Massage in the Hospis to making cosmetics, What ever field of Aromatherapy you are in their will be something relevant in this book, that you would not find in another book on Aromatherapy, My Friend A Mid wife in The Countess of Chester Hospital in Chester, Would not be without it in her work there is a quite fasanating paragraph on how essential oils can enter A Fetus via the omblical cord & actualy increace in streanth, These are just bits I rember of the Top of my head, As I have my copy in my work place. If you are a therapist Perfumer or merely adore Essential oils, This is a book you will grow found of like like those slippers that the more you were them the more comfortable thy become. Put it on your Christmas Wish List. Love & Light Gill. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 When first contacted me about his concerns re: the tincturing yesterday, I told him I'd post this to an herb list I'm on. There were some posting problems there, and it didn't show up until this morning. The first reply is in, from a very respected herbalist: > An aromatherapist > on the group raised the question of possible problems with some of > the plant materials, (he wrote:) such as carcinogens (asarone)(Acorus > calamus), neurotoxins (Artemisia annua), or phototoxins ( > archangelica). I can't imagine that using these tinctures for fragrace sould be an issue. Considering that they can all be used internally in moderation should be indicative that they would likely be safe being used externally (I assume that would be for fragrance use). On the note of Calamus, there has never been any evidence linking Calamus itself to a carcinogenic effect. All of the studies that led to this assumption were done using the extracted asarones, not the actual plant. Much the same as was done with sassafras, really, another plant claimed to be carcinogenic that I think completely undeserving of that stigma. Anya McCoy Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org Natural Perfumers Chat Group / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 > When first contacted me about his concerns re: the tincturing > yesterday, I told him I'd post this to an herb list I'm on. There > were some posting problems there, and it didn't show up until this > morning. The first reply is in, from a very respected herbalist: > > > An aromatherapist > > on the group raised the question of possible problems with some of > > the plant materials, (he wrote:) such as carcinogens (asarone)(Acorus > > calamus), neurotoxins (Artemisia annua), or phototoxins ( > > archangelica). > Anya, I did write this, but I later withdrew my comment about Artemisia annua - it's not neurotoxic. > I can't imagine that using these tinctures for fragrace sould be an > issue. Considering that they can all be used internally in moderation > should be indicative that they would likely be safe being used > externally (I assume that would be for fragrance use). > There is a well-documented and palpable risk to humans from external application of psoralen-containing essential oils. Whether tinctures from the same plants would contain a sufficient concentration of psoralens to cause problems I don't know, but I think we should try to find out. I found one paper about tincture of rue demonstrating photomutagenic properties in vitro, mainly due to its bergapten content, so clearly there is some potential risk from tinctures. > On the note of Calamus, there has never been any evidence linking > Calamus itself to a carcinogenic effect. All of the studies that led > to this assumption were done using the extracted asarones, not the > actual plant. Much the same as was done with sassafras, really, > another plant claimed to be carcinogenic that I think completely > undeserving of that stigma. > > > Anya McCoy OK, I was just raising some red flags where I though appropriate. It sounds as if there is no information either way on whether calamus or sassafras tinctures are likely to be carcinogenic. However, both calamus and sassafras essential oils have produced cancers in rodents, not just asarone and safrole. Safrole has also been associated with cancers in humans in SE Asia, where 600 million people chew " pan " made with betel leaves, which naturally contain safrole, and safrole-DNA adducts have been found in the blood of 94% of pan-chewing Taiwanese. In Assam, India, the risk of oesophageal cancer from pan chewing is greater than that from tobacco smoking. Sassafras essential oils contain 62 -93% safrole. When trying to predict risk, there are many factors to take into account, such as exposure levels, whether rats and humans metabolize the chemicals in the same way, and whether other constituents in the plant or essential oil may counteract the carcinogenic action. On the current evidence I think there is no doubt that sassafras is a risk to the general population. Individual susceptibility is another issue, and is largely determined by genetics. With calamus, I think the obvious route would be to use the type that contains no asarone - if it is available. It should be, as I think it's native to the US. It is possible that asarone-containing calamus also contains some anticarcinogenic compounds that would be extracted by an alcoholic tincture, and that these may counteract the action of the asarone (relative quantities are often important) but I would rather know that than gamble on it. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Tisserand Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: Safety of tinctures <snipped for brevity> Alcohol will extract chemicals from a plant that are not found in the equivalent essential oil or absolute, such as alkaloids, and so a tincture may present risks that the equivalent essential oil would not. I wish these dangers did not exist, but they do, so if you're tincturing something that you're not sure about, do some research on the safety profile of the plant, or check with the group, and stay safe. This isn't just about the people who are going to use your products, it's about you too. Because you're going to be handling the material in greater quantity, your exposure is going to be greater. Tisserand Hello , , Liz, There have been reports that the N. American sweet flag (Acorus calamus var. americanus Raf. Wulff) is the diploid form and no b-asarone is found, however, I would agree with and to be hesitant unless I knew for sure. Here in the U.S. your County Extension Service could be of help to you in identifying specific botanical if you are wildcrafting or where to purchase the correct plants from a nursery. The following paper from 2003 does recommend reducing levels in herbal medicines and seeking to use the diploid form. In some species there is more b-asarone in the leaves than in the root. This paper also makes reference to b-asarone also being present in carrot seed, certain species of helichrysum and other peppers. While I am certainly not meaning to diminish the possibility of risk, the conclusion of this paper allows continued limited exposure use in herbal formulas until a full risk benefit has been carried out. http://tinyurl.com/y38hdu With regard to alcohol extractions being perhaps more of a risk than the essential oil, I think this is a highly debatable statement. Converse to 's statement that there is greater risk, the alcohol tincturing process could also present the tempering factors of other desired constituents that buffer or ameliorate the adverse. Herbalists have long argued that isolating a single active ingredient creates difficulties and that the whole or partially purified extract offers advantages over a single isolated ingredient. Synergistic interactions are of vital importance in phytomedicines and explain the efficacy of apparently low doses of active constituents in a herbal product. This concept indeed underpins the philosophy of herbal medicine. Aromatherapy talks about the effects of 'synergy'; however, I think little has been written about what is left behind when extracting an essential oil and how this compares to the concept of whole plant 'synergy' in phytomedicines. Evidence to support the occurrence of synergy within phytomedicines is accumulating and is reviewed in several peer review journals, including 'Phytomedicine', specifically volume 8, no. 5, October 2001 by E. M. on, among others. Extracting only the essential oil from a plant does leave behind certain water or alcohol soluble constituents that may create a synergistic combination that is less harmful than in other forms of plant extracts, i.e., essential oil. Indigenous uses of plants are usually performed by water extraction or tisanes, which admittedly are the gentlest of all extractions. However, decades of folkloric and ethnobotany study show effective medicinal use for some plants that we westerners might shy away from as we continue to develop and use stronger chemical isolate extractions from those plants. Again, I am not at all intending to diminish the cautions presented by and , quite the contrary, only introducing expanded food for thought. Perhaps the natural perfumer needs to study Phytomedicine in order to assure safety, especially if they're going to stray into preparing their own plant extracts or use extractives not already common to the industry and IFRA. And, I also offer a reminder for those of us who supply aromatic ingredients to tighten up information provided to our customers so that more informed decisions can be made and precautions taken. We also have been discussing a number of ingredients that could carry bacteria or other harmful pathogens (Hyrax, " Goat-poo " ). We very well could be presenting the potential harmful exposure with any new suggestion or discussion . . . Be well, Marcia Elston, Samara Botane http://www.wingedseed.com " When the power of love becomes stronger than the love of power, we will have peace. " Jimi Hendrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 > Hello , , Liz, > > The following paper from 2003 > allows continued limited exposure use in herbal formulas until > a full risk benefit has been carried out. http://tinyurl.com/y38hdu > IFRA also allows limited continued exposure in fragrances of total asarones, of 0.01%. This is equivalent to about 0.004% of asarone-rich calamus oil in a fragrance. I'm sure a tincture will contain less asarone than an essential oil, so the equivalent level will be higher. Unfortunately, calamus oil also contains up to 2% of methyleugenol, another carcinogen, which reduces its safe use level to very tiny amounts. > With regard to alcohol extractions being perhaps more of a risk than the > essential oil, I think this is a highly debatable statement. Converse to > 's statement that there is greater risk, the alcohol tincturing > process could also present the tempering factors of other desired > constituents that buffer or ameliorate the adverse. I agree, and said that this was a possibility for calamus, and it is a possibility, but I don't think it's prudent to make the assumption. A tincture will contain many other constituents, and their action cannot be discounted, but they are not always ameliorative. Unfortunately herbal preparations are sometimes unsafe, even though synergistic and antagonistic effects do of course play a significant role in the final effect on the body. > > Again, I am not at all intending to diminish the cautions presented by > and , quite the contrary, only introducing expanded food for > thought. Perhaps the natural perfumer needs to study Phytomedicine in order > to assure safety, especially if they're going to stray into preparing their > own plant extracts or use extractives not already common to the industry and > IFRA. And, I also offer a reminder for those of us who supply aromatic > ingredients to tighten up information provided to our customers so that more > informed decisions can be made and precautions taken. We also have been > discussing a number of ingredients that could carry bacteria or other > harmful pathogens (Hyrax, " Goat-poo " ). We very well could be presenting the > potential harmful exposure with any new suggestion or discussion . . . > > Be well, > Marcia Elston, Samara Botane http://www.wingedseed.com I have studied a number of herbal texts from previous centuries, and in this context it is always very sad to have to acknowledge some newly found risk, especially when this effectively removes the plant (or essential oil) from any reasonable use. However, we live in a time when there are so many " background " risks, whether from petroleum, dioxins, phthalates, toxins in paints, cigarette smoke etc. etc., that carcinogens in plants may have a greater negative impact on our health than in times past. Tisserand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 > With regard to alcohol extractions being perhaps more of a risk than the > essential oil, I think this is a highly debatable statement. Converse to > 's statement that there is greater risk, the alcohol tincturing > process could also present the tempering factors of other desired > constituents that buffer or ameliorate the adverse. I know that tea absolutes are not considered safe by the IFRA. In fact I think they are prohibited. Does this mean that a black or green tea tincture would probably be unsafe as well? I've been thinking that a tincture would probably be truer to the scent of tea than the absolute and I had assumed it would be safer. _._,___ --------------------------------- Sponsored Link $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 > > With regard to alcohol extractions being perhaps more of a risk than the > > essential oil, I think this is a highly debatable statement. Converse to > > 's statement that there is greater risk, the alcohol tincturing > > process could also present the tempering factors of other desired > > constituents that buffer or ameliorate the adverse. > > I know that tea absolutes are not considered safe by the IFRA. In fact I think they are prohibited. Does this mean that a black or green tea tincture would probably be unsafe as well? I've been thinking that a tincture would probably be truer to the scent of tea than the absolute and I had assumed it would be safer. > > > Tea absolutes have not been considered safe by IFRA because of skin sensitization, although the latest IFRA guidelines (not yet on their website) do allow small amounts of tea absolute. I don't think anyone knows what, in tea absolute, causes the problem, but it's obvious that aqueous solutions of teas are safe, since millions of people drink them every day with no problems. Green tea tinctures are also quite widely used, and as far as I know cause no problems when ingested. My guess would be that green or black tea tinctures are safe to use on the skin. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > Tea absolutes have not been considered safe by IFRA because of skin sensitization, although the latest IFRA guidelines (not yet on their website) do allow small amounts of tea absolute. I don't think anyone knows what, in tea absolute, causes the problem, but it's obvious that aqueous solutions of teas are safe, since millions of people drink them every day with no problems. Green tea tinctures are also quite widely used, and as far as I know cause no problems when ingested. My guess would be that green or black tea tinctures are safe to use on the skin. Thanks so much , Mmmmm, I'm drinking an aqueous solution of tea at this very moment (with bergamot) and it is very tasty. I'm wondering if caffeine is absorbed through the skin and if the absolutes of teas and coffee contain significant caffeine? And since I'm on the subject, can anyone tell me what coffee flower absolute is like? --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Don't quit your job - take classes online and earn your degree in 1 year. Start Today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 --- Tisserand <tisserand@...> wrote: > > Hello , , Liz, > > > > The following paper from 2003 allows continued limited exposure use in herbal formulas until full risk benefit has been carried out. > http://tinyurl.com/y38hdu IFRA also allows limited continued exposure in fragrances of total asarones, of 0.01%. > higher. Unfortunately, calamus oil also contains up to 2% of methyleugenol, another carcinogen, With regard to alcohol extractions being perhaps > more of a risk than the essential oil, I think this is a highly debatable statement. Converse to 's statement that there is greater risk, the alcohol tincturing process could also present the tempering factors of other desired constituents that buffer or ameliorate the study Phytomedicine in order to assure safety, Marcia Elston, Also this brings up a question I don't understand about Chinese medicine. An Acupuncturist friend of mine said that after they (Chinese Doctors/or pharmacists) made the cures they would put one little bit of poisen in the formula. Does this remind you of innoculations and homeopathy? You would seemingly have to study the risk that implies and make sure that the patient was only exposed to a low dose. Then we are not medical doctors who in this century seem to be a bit petroleum based. Can anyone respond to this train of thought? perhaps and others working from the curing zone. Thanks for your accessability BB ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I know that tea absolutes are not considered safe by the IFRA. In fact I think they are prohibited. Does this mean that a black or green tea tincture would probably be unsafe as well? I've been thinking that a tincture would probably be truer to the scent of tea than the absolute and I had assumed it would be safer. How does Bulgari (Ibelieve) get away with it? I think they have a perfume called Green Tea Janita Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I know that tea absolutes are not considered safe by the IFRA. >>>>>>>>> How does Bulgari (Ibelieve) get away with it? I think they have a perfume called Green Tea >>>>>>>>>>>> Janita Thank you you answered my question.... much obliged Janita --------------------------------- Try the all-new . " The New Version is radically easier to use " – The Wall Street Journal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 At 11:01 AM 11/21/2006, you wrote: > > >I know that tea absolutes are not considered safe by the IFRA. In >fact I think they are prohibited. Does this mean that a black or >green tea tincture would probably be unsafe as well? I've been >thinking that a tincture would probably be truer to the scent of tea >than the absolute and I had assumed it would be safer. > > > > > > How does Bulgari (Ibelieve) get away with it? I think they have > a perfume called Green Tea > > Janita I'll bet they use a synthetic tea fragrance. I believe the USA drugstore scent Healing Gardens Tea (something or other) is synth. Smells very synth. Ah-choo! Anya McCoy Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org Natural Perfumers Chat Group / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 > Other plants present other risks, such as the roots of archangelica, which contain > phototoxic psoralens (furocoumarins). This means there is a risk of skin discoloration or > burning if the tincture is used on the skin in sunlight. For what it's worth, I'll present that my fair skin (which usually burns quite easily) has not burned or otherwise reacted unpleasantly to my tincture of angelica root. And when I first bottled it (before learning of its potential phototoxicity), I wasn't careful with its use. Also worth noting, it was one of my favorite fragrances. That's not to say that one day I wouldn't react adversely to it or that nobody else would. But I didn't; Nice! or Lucky. ~Jen in Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Hi How much did you tincture and for how long? I plan to give it a try. Angi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 > How much did you tincture and for how long? > > I plan to give it a try. > > Angi Hi, Angi. 23% by weight. Soaked for 3 months. The Plum Flower brand (seems to be really high quality from what I've read) roots I purchased are still extremely aromatic (and oh so much more enticing than that " junk " I've smelled at health food stores--they're NOTHING like that stuff! You all have GOT to smell these!), even after straining. Maybe I shoulda kept the tincture going for longer, but it was strong at three months. Also, there's a crystalline something all over the leftover roots that formed during the tincturing. I'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 > How much did you tincture and for how long? > > I plan to give it a try. > > Angi Hi, Angi. 23% by weight. Soaked for 3 months. The Plum Flower brand (seems to be really high quality from what I've read) roots I purchased are still extremely aromatic (and oh so much more enticing than that " junk " I've smelled at health food stores--they're NOTHING like that stuff! You all have GOT to smell these!), even after straining. Maybe I shoulda kept the tincture going for longer, but it was strong at three months. Also, there's a crystalline something all over the leftover roots that formed during the tincturing. I'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 > > How much did you tincture and for how long? > > I plan to give it a try. > > Angi ------------------------------------------- > Hi, Angi. > 23% by weight. Soaked for 3 months. The Plum Flower brand (seems to > > be really high quality from what I've read) roots I purchased > are still extremely aromatic (and oh so much > more enticing than that " junk " I've smelled at health food > stores--they're NOTHING like that stuff! You all have GOT to smell > these!), even after straining. Maybe I shoulda kept the tincture > going for longer, but it was strong at three months. > Also, there's a crystalline something all over the leftover roots that > formed during the tincturing. I'm curious. ------------------------------------------------ Hello- Are you discussing angelica root tincture? Thanks, Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 > > How much did you tincture and for how long? > > I plan to give it a try. > > Angi ------------------------------------------- > Hi, Angi. > 23% by weight. Soaked for 3 months. The Plum Flower brand (seems to > > be really high quality from what I've read) roots I purchased > are still extremely aromatic (and oh so much > more enticing than that " junk " I've smelled at health food > stores--they're NOTHING like that stuff! You all have GOT to smell > these!), even after straining. Maybe I shoulda kept the tincture > going for longer, but it was strong at three months. > Also, there's a crystalline something all over the leftover roots that > formed during the tincturing. I'm curious. ------------------------------------------------ Hello- Are you discussing angelica root tincture? Thanks, Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 > Hello- > > Are you discussing angelica root tincture? > > Thanks, > Autumn Yepper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 > Hello- > > Are you discussing angelica root tincture? > > Thanks, > Autumn Yepper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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