Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 You need to contact Colin at Amicus - it is through this website that he contacted me, because I was so ungracious about it all!! He is anxious to hear from all at the coalface or in the know, about whether Hvs feel they have presented a fair reflection of what we do.So please, everyone, if you are not happy,CONTACT HIM. -----Original Message-----From: Cowley [mailto:sarah@...]Sent: 17 March 2003 21:57 Subject: Re: agenda for changeRuth and , I hope you can manage to convince the Amicus reps to argue for a better weighting for health visitors, even if not moving wholly into the next banding. Whoever it was that suggested that the main functionof health visiting is running baby clinics is clearly unaware of most of the activities undertaken by most HVs every day!I saw something in last week's nursing press suggesting that the health visiting profile had not yet been completed, which would make sense, given what we have seen, but I confess that I really do not understand the processes or 'next steps'. Can anyone enlighten us?Ruth Grant wrote:>Colleagues of mine have raised the possibility that DNs will be graded 7 and>HVs 6, . I meet with the Amicus rep tomorrow so will check this out ->but before we celebrate we should be aware that there may be such a>discrepancy. Ruth>----- Original Message -----> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 You need to contact Colin at Amicus - it is through this website that he contacted me, because I was so ungracious about it all!! He is anxious to hear from all at the coalface or in the know, about whether Hvs feel they have presented a fair reflection of what we do.So please, everyone, if you are not happy,CONTACT HIM. -----Original Message-----From: Cowley [mailto:sarah@...]Sent: 17 March 2003 21:57 Subject: Re: agenda for changeRuth and , I hope you can manage to convince the Amicus reps to argue for a better weighting for health visitors, even if not moving wholly into the next banding. Whoever it was that suggested that the main functionof health visiting is running baby clinics is clearly unaware of most of the activities undertaken by most HVs every day!I saw something in last week's nursing press suggesting that the health visiting profile had not yet been completed, which would make sense, given what we have seen, but I confess that I really do not understand the processes or 'next steps'. Can anyone enlighten us?Ruth Grant wrote:>Colleagues of mine have raised the possibility that DNs will be graded 7 and>HVs 6, . I meet with the Amicus rep tomorrow so will check this out ->but before we celebrate we should be aware that there may be such a>discrepancy. Ruth>----- Original Message -----> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 OK then, but why should we be always prepared to settle for so little in comparison to say school teachers? HVs have a wonderfully diverse skill base for risk assessment just I just feel hasnt been recognized. agenda for change Hello everyone I have received my RCN ballot paper about agenda for change. They tell me they are balloting those outside the NHS as well as NHS staff, because NHS rates are used as a benchmark for healthcare pay in all settings. I echo Liz's comments about university salaries: most of our staff would be delighted to have similar rates of pay to those offered in the NHS, but they are not used as a benchmark for us. However, I hate the thought of a wasted vote and would like to support colleagues who will be affected by agenda for change. Should I say 'YES' as advised by the RCN, or 'NO' and why whichever you advise, please? best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 , Colin is not a member of Senate; I believe your message was forwarded to him by another member, to whom he responded, then his reply was forwarded. It is good advice for everyone to contact him though, if he is the CPHVA contact leading on this: can you remind us of his email address? I expect that CPHVA will be the union that is leading on health visitors' rates, but do not know how this particular exercise is operating. thanks Noy wrote: You need to contact Colin at Amicus - it is through this website that he contacted me, because I was so ungracious about it all!! He is anxious to hear from all at the coalface or in the know, about whether Hvs feel they have presented a fair reflection of what we do.So please, everyone, if you are not happy,CONTACT HIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 and everyone, Colin.Adkins@... -----Original Message-----From: Cowley [mailto:sarah@...]Sent: 22 March 2003 15:55 Subject: Re: agenda for change , Colin is not a member of Senate; I believe your message was forwarded to him by another member, to whom he responded, then his reply was forwarded. It is good advice for everyone to contact him though, if he is the CPHVA contact leading on this: can you remind us of his email address? I expect that CPHVA will be the union that is leading on health visitors' rates, but do not know how this particular exercise is operating. thanks Noy wrote: You need to contact Colin at Amicus - it is through this website that he contacted me, because I was so ungracious about it all!! He is anxious to hear from all at the coalface or in the know, about whether Hvs feel they have presented a fair reflection of what we do.So please, everyone, if you are not happy,CONTACT HIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Because nurses traditionally do not stand up and challenge the status quo ie we do not threaten any form of industrial action as teachers do and we do not have the political clout that doctors do. What about the GP pay rise in return for "modernisation"? We still only get 3% with this ridiculous Agenda for Change.... and we're meant to be pleased with it. On another note but maybe a tenuous link to the culture of nursing which restricts us to such low pay I recently did some training with Sheelah seeley in Ireland. Among the group were family support workers working for Surestart. I had a huge amount of admiration for them working in West Belfast amidst appalling deprivation and the consequences of years of violence. They had no baggage in the way of the training we had to offer and we both came away feeling that direct entry to health visiting has to be the way forward. will that ever happen? Ann RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Well Ann, you know my views. It is the only sensible way forward for the profession. We have not managed to overcome the antagonism to it from within nursing though, and even if nurses are prepared to put up with low pay etc, they are certainly very strong in this inter-professional battle. I heard last week that the CNO is planning a review of health visiting. . . . Unfortunately, it has gone very quiet on the register front; mainly (I think) because the NMC are so worried that we will lose the register altogether and nobody is prepared to push for a change. A bit like Agenda for Change, it is held to be better to settle for something that is plainly bad for the profession (not to mention our clients) than to fight for what we know is right. I think demography will 'win the day' for us in the end; poor recruitment and high retirement will force the issue. But it may force it in a way that we do not like, because we have missed the boat at this stage when all the decisions about education/training for children and families workforce are being made. best wishes Ann GIRLING wrote: Because nurses traditionally do not stand up and challenge the status quo ie we do not threaten any form of industrial action as teachers do and we do not have the political clout that doctors do. What about the GP pay rise in return for "modernisation"? We still only get 3% with this ridiculous Agenda for Change.... and we're meant to be pleased with it. On another note but maybe a tenuous link to the culture of nursing which restricts us to such low pay I recently did some training with Sheelah seeley in Ireland. Among the group were family support workers working for Surestart. I had a huge amount of admiration for them working in West Belfast amidst appalling deprivation and the consequences of years of violence. They had no baggage in the way of the training we had to offer and we both came away feeling that direct entry to health visiting has to be the way forward. will that ever happen? Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 If you cant stand the heat , you get out of the kitchen, dont you ? Thousands of nurses and midwives and Hvs vote with their feet each year - govt dont seem to mind.Just look at the low numbers for HV training this year. Ive been a g grade since I was 26 and Im now 41 - 11yrs experience as a HV.The message is clear - time to move on and out. -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 03 July 2003 07:17 Subject: Re: Agenda for Change I am interested at the responses to the Agenda for Change paper - my next question is what are people going to do with the feelings it is bringing up? Margaret RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I am interested at the responses to the Agenda for Change paper - my next question is what are people going to do with the feelings it is bringing up? Margaret RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Margaret, There will be an opportunity to voice opinions at theCPHVA AGM in October too. Ruth RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Don't blame you - trouble is I don't sense any sign of loss or regret from employers having got out myself. However for me it's the best thing I ever did and i wish i'd done it earlier!! Ann RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Ann - I think the lack of sadness at the loss of HVs is partly linked to the Government target-mania and HVing just doesnt fit so cosily with hard and fast short term measurables. Furthermore because we are G grades we are regarded as expensive regardless of the excellent level of achievement. Ruth RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Margaret, I am attending the AGM to propose one of the motions on HV and AforC banding .I would welcome any advice re strategy,content or presentation .We have a collection of evidence, stories and feelings from members in this area but would value any advice from others as how to tell the executive what its like on the ground and make a change to our banding. phine >From: "Ruth Grant" >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Agenda for Change >Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:53:59 +0100 > >Margaret, There will be an opportunity to voice opinions at theCPHVA AGM in October too. Ruth > Agenda for Change > > > Thought SENATE members may be interested in this > > Regards > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 I agree Ruth - what we do does not fit in with the medical model known, understood and loved by government downwards but what they want to see happen ie early identification and intervetion does .... what a lot of educating we have to do and cultural change etc etc!! Ann RE: Agenda for Change Yes. Well, they can carry on telling us the world is flat ...but it isnt. Can anyone tell me why HVs who are graduates in the same way that school teachers are, have to accept such pathetic representation ? Within ( I think it is ) 6 yrs school teachers are earning £25k straight up their pay spine , no questions asked. How many years experience and extra training do nurses have to produce to get this grand sum? Why is it that we have to grovel around like this? Oh yes, its because nurses are traditionally badly paid, silly me. Bitterly, -----Original Message-----From: Margaret Buttigieg [mailto:margaret@...]Sent: 30 June 2003 13:04 Subject: Agenda for Change Thought SENATE members may be interested in this Regards Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Hi phine My immediate thought is to use the storytelling method - not anecdotal but real. Will think more and get back to you Margaret Agenda for Change > > > Thought SENATE members may be interested in this > > Regards > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Implementing Agenda for Change like the introduction of clinical grading is not going to be easy and I always thought we were all in this together and there to support each other. Last week I was horrified to hear from a CPHVA LAR that she had been told that in doing work within her organisation to develop job descriptions for AforC, she was not allowed to work with anyone who was not a Amicus/CPHVA member. Indeed she had - and I heard this from another source - turned two nursery nurses and another Hv colleague away form her meeting - which is partly trust supported - as they are not members of the CPHVA. I would have thought a better approach would have been to invite them to stay and encouraged them to join the Union. However I do feel that if that is the message form CPHVA then we have got to a very poor state of affairs - is this happening elsewhere? Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Margaret, whilst folk may not be turned away from meetings it seems that the discussions for Agenda for Change seem to be organised according to individual union representations, and people are being categorised. Colleagues who do not fit in with a particular union or professional organisaiton seem to be missing out with a voice on the pay discussions. I became particularly aware of this the other week at a meeting when a union rep. stated that she thought the A-C grades would miss out on accurate job evaluations and could get a poor deal, if they didn`t belong to Amicus or Unison. Their individual skills would not be valued accordingly. Our own hv assistant does not belong to any particular trade union and will have serious issues about the grading of her job.She has now decided to is leave the job and has been accepted as an asst Social Worker in Social Services where there seems to be a better career structure for her to develop her skills and she knows what the pay structure and progress points will be.As a mature woman she doesn`t want to spend years acquiring qualifications before getting to the job she wants. She does not have a nursing qualification and could not therefore progress to Health Visiting if she wanted to. I feel our colleagues in A-C grades could get a very raw deal unless they have been advised to join a union or have colleagues willing to stand up for them. jeanette Margaret Buttigieg <margaret@...> wrote: Implementing Agenda for Change like the introduction of clinical grading is not going to be easy and I always thought we were all in this together and there to support each other. Last week I was horrified to hear from a CPHVA LAR that she had been told that in doing work within her organisation to develop job descriptions for AforC, she was not allowed to work with anyone who was not a Amicus/CPHVA member. Indeed she had - and I heard this from another source - turned two nursery nurses and another Hv colleague away form her meeting - which is partly trust supported - as they are not members of the CPHVA. I would have thought a better approach would have been to invite them to stay and encouraged them to join the Union. However I do feel that if that is the message form CPHVA then we have got to a very poor state of affairs - is this happening elsewhere? Margaret Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Our health visitors in Mid Hants PCT where all banded at 6 as well. Only SPM's and PDF's got band 7. I can forward you the KSF for both of these is you wish. Many HV's seemed to get band 6 in the surrounding PCT's, although in some areas they did get band 7. Our school nurses also got band 6. Best wishes Maggie Fisher Agenda for change Dear All I may have alread missed the discussion on Agenda for change or it could be that we are slightly behind the rest of the country at being job matched/accredited. Here in Stranraer (Dumfries and Galloway) health visitors have been banded a 6. School nurses incidently have been given a 5!. Unquestionably we are appealing as a group and as indivduals but before we do that we want to compare areas around the country who received a band 7. What im asking for is job descriptions and KSF outlines or anything really that could help us- from those who did get a 7. I would be most grateful for any help or any links to websites ect. Many thanks Alison Bate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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