RE: RE: Parenting case studies still needed

[Guest guest]

,

That is very interesting that you talk of 'pathways' because I have recently suggested to one of our far-sighted paediatricians that we could get together and work out a range of pathways for health visiting, parenting and a range of other issues and situations. I will be interested to see your CPHVA publication - and contribute where I can - as your work would aid mine. To briefly answer your questions.

1. Need was identified by my research for the Opportunity Project Groups. Need was identified by HV team from client contacts for arts & postnatal group, parenting groups, breastfeeding support group. Walking for Health was suggested by PCT Older People initiative. Community cafe was set up as a reflection of the Opportunity Group in another village.

2. Parenting needs. Interestingly we feel that to most parents the concept of 'Parenting' as a learning topic is quite a turn off. We have noted that the further up the social/educative class the parents go the more accepting they are of a shortcut to easier and effective parenting, which is how we view the Parenting Groups. The parents who would really benefit from learing some important parenting principles (ie those with children with marked behavioural difficulties in school) do not wish to participate. Such a suggestion is regarded as an insult. I am about to start work with the local authority to generate a Parenting Bid and I feel very strongly that the way it is marketed is vital to the success in the most needy spheres. Those who do attend the courses rave about them and we have an 'on-going' parent support group for them to join after the 6-week course. Those who do attend are a mixture of self-referral and some are families with whom we have worked with 1:1 and are now more confident and happier and ready to join a group.

3. Service development. As I said in (1), the Opportunity Group for the poorest people arose from by research. These people were very angry and distressed when we first invited them to an inaugral meeting as they have nothing and in the past an attempt by themselves to get a little group going failed. They were convinced that nothing could ever be done. 1 year on they are much more optomistic, and have grown emotionally beyond belief. Today we were all sad as the teenage sister-in-law of one of our teenage pregnant mothers died yesterday during premature labour and was delivered of a 32/40 gestation little boy. A year ago there would have been much shouting and railing against society. Today everyone was sad and sympathetic and supportive of each other. In a small community such as the social housing estate, many people know one another. The Drug and Alcohol Carers Support Group was started as one of the original members of the Opportunity group has a son who is a heroin addict (we have high levels of addiction both alcohol and drugs). I believe our group is a first in our area and was so welcomed by those who attend that one lady cried on my shoulder with relief at her unburdening. Interestingly we offered the original group a parenting course and they were appalled that I should even suggest such an affront! We have had lots of courses since - leisure, food handling, etc. that they have enjoyed and participated in enthusiastically. The Older People section arose from my research and of course is in line with lots of both PCT and Governmental targets.

4. Ongoing activities taken by parents. As I said in (2) above we have developed an 'on-going' parenting support group as many of the parents who attend the parenting groups want to continue to meet and support each other. In the Opportunity Group discussions on parenting happen sometimes 1:1 or in the group. My colleague and I approach all discussions with great care and freely use our personal experiences as a way of coming alongside in a friendly way rather than as a professional do-gooder. We have observed that the members of the Opportunity Project support each other a great deal over parenting issues. All ages and both sexes throw in their 'tupp'ny worth' during what are usually chaotic discussions. The children of the group are cared for by all the members, when we have Fun Days we have both parents and children for two reasons; the first is that we would have to be registeres and the subject of Ofsted inspections if children were left with us; the second is that my colleague and I want to teach these families that sharing activities with their children is fun. Before we began the Opportunity Group we had observed that although they provided all care for their children they seldom played with them or stimulated them.

Gosh - I think that may have covered it.

Regards,

Ruth

Re: advice re changes in community nursing

Margaret

I am quite excited about our new Children's Centre team we are putting together currently. We will have 2 whole time HVs, 2 P/T HVs, 2 P?T Link Workers and 2 Community Childrens Nurses (HV) plus a Community Van and P/T Playworker. Our Childrens Centre is in a rural setting - spread over two large villages and has 1073 0 -4 year olds. We are anticipating working the area as one caseload and linking levels of work with levels of ability. We selected RGN (Child Branch) as this person will have a remit working with new mothers supporting them postnatally, with depression, breast feeding, working also encouraging play and helping with our established groups - of which we have a variety. This person will also link with the Link workers to enrich the work with needy families. Furthermore s/he will undertake immunisations with one of the HVs.

We do not envisage the HVs discontinuing client contact but rather that we will be blessed with more hours from skilled people to help with our v. needy rural area.

Ruth Grant

[Guest guest]

Wow Ruth! Thank you for that, I'm printing your e-mail off to read through properly. Its does seem like a highs and lows story - but I suppose that is what real life is like. Great to know there are still people out there doing such great stuff.

-----Original Message-----From: Ruth Grant [mailto:ruth@...]Sent: 24 June 2004 17:39 Subject: Re: RE: Parenting case studies still needed

,

That is very interesting that you talk of 'pathways' because I have recently suggested to one of our far-sighted paediatricians that we could get together and work out a range of pathways for health visiting, parenting and a range of other issues and situations. I will be interested to see your CPHVA publication - and contribute where I can - as your work would aid mine. To briefly answer your questions.

1. Need was identified by my research for the Opportunity Project Groups. Need was identified by HV team from client contacts for arts & postnatal group, parenting groups, breastfeeding support group. Walking for Health was suggested by PCT Older People initiative. Community cafe was set up as a reflection of the Opportunity Group in another village.

2. Parenting needs. Interestingly we feel that to most parents the concept of 'Parenting' as a learning topic is quite a turn off. We have noted that the further up the social/educative class the parents go the more accepting they are of a shortcut to easier and effective parenting, which is how we view the Parenting Groups. The parents who would really benefit from learing some important parenting principles (ie those with children with marked behavioural difficulties in school) do not wish to participate. Such a suggestion is regarded as an insult. I am about to start work with the local authority to generate a Parenting Bid and I feel very strongly that the way it is marketed is vital to the success in the most needy spheres. Those who do attend the courses rave about them and we have an 'on-going' parent support group for them to join after the 6-week course. Those who do attend are a mixture of self-referral and some are families with whom we have worked with 1:1 and are now more confident and happier and ready to join a group.

3. Service development. As I said in (1), the Opportunity Group for the poorest people arose from by research. These people were very angry and distressed when we first invited them to an inaugral meeting as they have nothing and in the past an attempt by themselves to get a little group going failed. They were convinced that nothing could ever be done. 1 year on they are much more optomistic, and have grown emotionally beyond belief. Today we were all sad as the teenage sister-in-law of one of our teenage pregnant mothers died yesterday during premature labour and was delivered of a 32/40 gestation little boy. A year ago there would have been much shouting and railing against society. Today everyone was sad and sympathetic and supportive of each other. In a small community such as the social housing estate, many people know one another. The Drug and Alcohol Carers Support Group was started as one of the original members of the Opportunity group has a son who is a heroin addict (we have high levels of addiction both alcohol and drugs). I believe our group is a first in our area and was so welcomed by those who attend that one lady cried on my shoulder with relief at her unburdening. Interestingly we offered the original group a parenting course and they were appalled that I should even suggest such an affront! We have had lots of courses since - leisure, food handling, etc. that they have enjoyed and participated in enthusiastically. The Older People section arose from my research and of course is in line with lots of both PCT and Governmental targets.

4. Ongoing activities taken by parents. As I said in (2) above we have developed an 'on-going' parenting support group as many of the parents who attend the parenting groups want to continue to meet and support each other. In the Opportunity Group discussions on parenting happen sometimes 1:1 or in the group. My colleague and I approach all discussions with great care and freely use our personal experiences as a way of coming alongside in a friendly way rather than as a professional do-gooder. We have observed that the members of the Opportunity Project support each other a great deal over parenting issues. All ages and both sexes throw in their 'tupp'ny worth' during what are usually chaotic discussions. The children of the group are cared for by all the members, when we have Fun Days we have both parents and children for two reasons; the first is that we would have to be registeres and the subject of Ofsted inspections if children were left with us; the second is that my colleague and I want to teach these families that sharing activities with their children is fun. Before we began the Opportunity Group we had observed that although they provided all care for their children they seldom played with them or stimulated them.

Gosh - I think that may have covered it.

Regards,

Ruth

Re: advice re changes in community nursing

Margaret

I am quite excited about our new Children's Centre team we are putting together currently. We will have 2 whole time HVs, 2 P/T HVs, 2 P?T Link Workers and 2 Community Childrens Nurses (HV) plus a Community Van and P/T Playworker. Our Childrens Centre is in a rural setting - spread over two large villages and has 1073 0 -4 year olds. We are anticipating working the area as one caseload and linking levels of work with levels of ability. We selected RGN (Child Branch) as this person will have a remit working with new mothers supporting them postnatally, with depression, breast feeding, working also encouraging play and helping with our established groups - of which we have a variety. This person will also link with the Link workers to enrich the work with needy families. Furthermore s/he will undertake immunisations with one of the HVs.

We do not envisage the HVs discontinuing client contact but rather that we will be blessed with more hours from skilled people to help with our v. needy rural area.

Ruth Grant

[Guest guest]

Ruth, this is really excellent work. I think you provide some wonderful

examples of how important it is to retain our principle of 'stimulation

of an awareness of health needs,' always remembering how important it is

to keep that based in a value of health, as defined and understand by the

people we are working with. It is quite simply not good enough to go around

providing 'information' and 'choice' defined in a professional way, or from

an outsiders' perspective, as we are so often exhorted to do. Conversely,

once people have the chance to look at what they might achieve for themselves,

given the right kind of support and opportunities to work things out, they

will come up with solutions that really work for themselves. I think Gandhi

had something to say about that kind of approach, didn't he?

Thank you for giving us all so much food for thought.

Ruth Grant wrote:

,

That is very interesting that

you talk of 'pathways' because I have recently suggested to one of our far-sighted

paediatricians that we could get together and work out a range of pathways

for health visiting, parenting and a range of other issues and situations.

I will be interested to see your CPHVA publication - and contribute where

I can - as your work would aid mine. To briefly answer your questions.

1. Need was identified by my research for the

Opportunity Project Groups. Need was identified by HV team from client

contacts for arts & postnatal group, parenting groups, breastfeeding

support group. Walking for Health was suggested by PCT Older People initiative.

Community cafe was set up as a reflection of the Opportunity Group in another

village.

2. Parenting needs. Interestingly

we feel that to most parents the concept of 'Parenting' as a learning topic

is quite a turn off. We have noted that the further up the social/educative

class the parents go the more accepting they are of a shortcut to easier

and effective parenting, which is how we view the Parenting Groups. The

parents who would really benefit from learing some important parenting principles

(ie those with children with marked behavioural difficulties in school)

do not wish to participate. Such a suggestion is regarded as an insult.

I am about to start work with the local authority to generate a Parenting

Bid and I feel very strongly that the way it is marketed is vital to the

success in the most needy spheres. Those who do attend the courses rave

about them and we have an 'on-going' parent support group for them to join

after the 6-week course. Those who do attend are a mixture of self-referral

and some are families with whom we have worked with 1:1 and are now more

confident and happier and ready to join a group.

3. Service development. As I

said in (1), the Opportunity Group for the poorest people arose from by

research. These people were very angry and distressed when we first invited

them to an inaugral meeting as they have nothing and in the past an attempt

by themselves to get a little group going failed. They were convinced that

nothing could ever be done. 1 year on they are much more optomistic, and

have grown emotionally beyond belief. Today we were all sad as the teenage

sister-in-law of one of our teenage pregnant mothers died yesterday during

premature labour and was delivered of a 32/40 gestation little boy. A year

ago there would have been much shouting and railing against society. Today

everyone was sad and sympathetic and supportive of each other. In a small

community such as the social housing estate, many people know one another.

The Drug and Alcohol Carers Support Group was started as one of the original

members of the Opportunity group has a son who is a heroin addict (we have

high levels of addiction both alcohol and drugs). I believe our group is

a first in our area and was so welcomed by those who attend that one lady

cried on my shoulder with relief at her unburdening. Interestingly we offered

the original group a parenting course and they were appalled that I should

even suggest such an affront! We have had lots of courses since - leisure,

food handling, etc. that they have enjoyed and participated in enthusiastically.

The Older People section arose from my research and of course is in line

with lots of both PCT and Governmental targets.

4. Ongoing activities taken by

parents. As I said in (2) above we have developed an 'on-going' parenting

support group as many of the parents who attend the parenting groups want

to continue to meet and support each other. In the Opportunity Group discussions

on parenting happen sometimes 1:1 or in the group. My colleague and I approach

all discussions with great care and freely use our personal experiences

as a way of coming alongside in a friendly way rather than as a professional

do-gooder. We have observed that the members of the Opportunity Project

support each other a great deal over parenting issues. All ages and both

sexes throw in their 'tupp'ny worth' during what are usually chaotic discussions.

The children of the group are cared for by all the members, when we have

Fun Days we have both parents and children for two reasons; the first is

that we would have to be registeres and the subject of Ofsted inspections

if children were left with us; the second is that my colleague and I want

to teach these families that sharing activities with their children is fun.

Before we began the Opportunity Group we had observed that although they

provided all care for their children they seldom played with them or stimulated

them.

Gosh - I think that may have covered

it.

Regards,

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Robyn, I am always struck by the power of simple human respect and valuing.

Perhaps it is not so simple! It certainly seems to have an empowering and

supporting impact. Thank you for sharing your experiences and for your willingness

to continually question your own practice.

I am interested and hope you do not mind me asking: what kind of impact

does it have on yourself, to keep questioning your own activities and deciding

that maybe you could have approached things differently? Does it undermine

your sense of self-esteem or increase it? I am thinking of a conversation

I had when PREP first came in about ten years ago, and we were all being

told to keep records every time we learnt something new to do our jobs. I

recall commenting that I must be really stupid, because I had to learn something

new every day, and could not decide from amongst all of that what to record

and what to leave out! Lots of colleagues looked at me as though I was off

my trolley; and some have questioned my willingness to recognise how little

I know in specific fields compared to e.g. students, researchers and colleagues,

who often have particular expertise that I do not have. So, I am curious.

best wishes

Robyn Pound wrote:

Ruth, I am interested in what you are saying about identifying parenting

needs and what to do about it. I have two perspectives that relate closely

to yours that I found through experience.

The first is that I morned the loss of 2 year contacts because it

was such a wonderful opportunity to hear parents' points of view about their

children as people. These were sometimes complaints about behaviour couched

in ways that blamed the child for being who they were. To begin with I sometimes

waded in too quickly offering help to think about how they understand their

children's behaviour and how they respond to it. Sometimes because this

was my agenda they appeared not to get so much out of it. I moved to spending

more time helping them to identify the extent of the difficulty for themselves

first so that they will be more motivated to spend time thinking about it

and improving how they all relate together. That is what I do now. I see

my role as responding to parents' identified needs and helping them to clarifying

the need for themselves. Other family members may then be invited in to the

discussions that follow because it is seen as important enough to do that.

I have reintroduced a two year contact in my practice.

The other experience was in a family group set up by an independent

provider for male and female survivors of abuse who had come to the end of

their therapy and wanted to give something back to their community. It had

been planned that when the group was up and running I would be available

to offer parenting expertise! The first day I turned up to meet them, the

build up had been so good that I had something to offer that they wanted me

to perfom immediately for the whole group. Off the cuff I delivered and believed

it had gone well.

The next week I was told very clearly that some were offended that

I thought they needed such a thing (they did actually but it had been my

agenda not theirs). I learnt from those two weeks that some very discouraged

and chaotic families are just not in a position to take on parenting class-type

information. They needed something else first before they could begin to

feel Ok enough about themselves to be able to ask questions about the way

they parent. I sat in this group ('held' by the charity) for a year and witnessed

something similar to what you describe. It was the warm safe place where

everyone was respected and seen as valuable. Our professional role was just

to hold the space in which 25+ people each week could experience sustained

conversation about whatever came up (school bullying, last night in police

cells, what ever...). The advice came from each other and was always sensible

and kindly given.

Several months on the man who had been most offended by my previous

attempt began asking questions about his relationships with his children.

This is the most moving experience of my life. No one present judged or

offered advice. We just listened as he questioned his own actions. I believe

he was making comparisons with the way he is treated by the group. We came

to realise that there probably needs to be a two tiered approach to parenting

education. Those who rarely have experienced respectful relationships with

others through their lives need to experience that first so that they can

get a feel for what they can offer their children. A parenting group could

run separately for those who want to join. It made me wonder about the value

of compulsory parenting orders. Does anyone do parenting classes under them?

Sorry, another longy. I was just struck by the similar experiences.

Robyn

[Guest guest]

Thank you , I too was inspired by Ghandi's autobiography and also work undertaken in third world countries to help communities help themselves. Ruth

Re: RE: Parenting case studies still needed

Ruth, this is really excellent work. I think you provide some wonderful examples of how important it is to retain our principle of 'stimulation of an awareness of health needs,' always remembering how important it is to keep that based in a value of health, as defined and understand by the people we are working with. It is quite simply not good enough to go around providing 'information' and 'choice' defined in a professional way, or from an outsiders' perspective, as we are so often exhorted to do. Conversely, once people have the chance to look at what they might achieve for themselves, given the right kind of support and opportunities to work things out, they will come up with solutions that really work for themselves. I think Gandhi had something to say about that kind of approach, didn't he?Thank you for giving us all so much food for thought.Ruth Grant wrote:

,

That is very interesting that you talk of 'pathways' because I have recently suggested to one of our far-sighted paediatricians that we could get together and work out a range of pathways for health visiting, parenting and a range of other issues and situations. I will be interested to see your CPHVA publication - and contribute where I can - as your work would aid mine. To briefly answer your questions.

1. Need was identified by my research for the Opportunity Project Groups. Need was identified by HV team from client contacts for arts & postnatal group, parenting groups, breastfeeding support group. Walking for Health was suggested by PCT Older People initiative. Community cafe was set up as a reflection of the Opportunity Group in another village.

2. Parenting needs. Interestingly we feel that to most parents the concept of 'Parenting' as a learning topic is quite a turn off. We have noted that the further up the social/educative class the parents go the more accepting they are of a shortcut to easier and effective parenting, which is how we view the Parenting Groups. The parents who would really benefit from learing some important parenting principles (ie those with children with marked behavioural difficulties in school) do not wish to participate. Such a suggestion is regarded as an insult. I am about to start work with the local authority to generate a Parenting Bid and I feel very strongly that the way it is marketed is vital to the success in the most needy spheres. Those who do attend the courses rave about them and we have an 'on-going' parent support group for them to join after the 6-week course. Those who do attend are a mixture of self-referral and some are families with whom we have worked with 1:1 and are now more confident and happier and ready to join a group.

3. Service development. As I said in (1), the Opportunity Group for the poorest people arose from by research. These people were very angry and distressed when we first invited them to an inaugral meeting as they have nothing and in the past an attempt by themselves to get a little group going failed. They were convinced that nothing could ever be done. 1 year on they are much more optomistic, and have grown emotionally beyond belief. Today we were all sad as the teenage sister-in-law of one of our teenage pregnant mothers died yesterday during premature labour and was delivered of a 32/40 gestation little boy. A year ago there would have been much shouting and railing against society. Today everyone was sad and sympathetic and supportive of each other. In a small community such as the social housing estate, many people know one another. The Drug and Alcohol Carers Support Group was started as one of the original members of the Opportunity group has a son who is a heroin addict (we have high levels of addiction both alcohol and drugs). I believe our group is a first in our area and was so welcomed by those who attend that one lady cried on my shoulder with relief at her unburdening. Interestingly we offered the original group a parenting course and they were appalled that I should even suggest such an affront! We have had lots of courses since - leisure, food handling, etc. that they have enjoyed and participated in enthusiastically. The Older People section arose from my research and of course is in line with lots of both PCT and Governmental targets.

4. Ongoing activities taken by parents. As I said in (2) above we have developed an 'on-going' parenting support group as many of the parents who attend the parenting groups want to continue to meet and support each other. In the Opportunity Group discussions on parenting happen sometimes 1:1 or in the group. My colleague and I approach all discussions with great care and freely use our personal experiences as a way of coming alongside in a friendly way rather than as a professional do-gooder. We have observed that the members of the Opportunity Project support each other a great deal over parenting issues. All ages and both sexes throw in their 'tupp'ny worth' during what are usually chaotic discussions. The children of the group are cared for by all the members, when we have Fun Days we have both parents and children for two reasons; the first is that we would have to be registeres and the subject of Ofsted inspections if children were left with us; the second is that my colleague and I want to teach these families that sharing activities with their children is fun. Before we began the Opportunity Group we had observed that although they provided all care for their children they seldom played with them or stimulated them.

Gosh - I think that may have covered it.

Regards,

Ruth