Re: Joint Pain; CSM not resolving these problems for me...and you?

[Guest guest]

I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM. Improvements with

the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of my CNS symptoms but not

continuously.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of ssr3351@...

Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:59 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Joint Pain

Since taking the CSM and being out of the school for 2 yrs. all my joint

pain is gone!!

I've noticed that I often get terrible aches in my back and in other

joints (hips, arms, shoulders) when I get a lot of mold exposure. I

didn't realize the two were connected for a long time, but now that I

am taking cholstyramine, the inflammation doesn't last as long so the

connection is made much more obvious.

[Guest guest]

" julie levitt " wrote:

>

> I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM.

Improvements with the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of

my CNS symptoms but not continuously.

>

.

The " anion organic transport system " can only dump toxins into the

intestines AFTER they've circulated through the body and done their

damage.

If " toxin garbage-in " is more than " toxin garbage-out " , all the CSM

can do is slow down the rate at which someone is being poisoned.

CSM scrubs " after the fact " instead of preventing toxins by blocking

them.

This can lead people do believe that the protocol is at fault when

the problem may be that they didn't reduce their mold exposure

enough.

Dr Shoemaker describes at the end of Chapt 18 a scenario in which

someone decides not to adopt avoidance, and all he can do is hope

that this person doesn't eventually fall under what I call " The

Power Curve " of exposure.

The way you are " wavering " suggests that you are not only dealing

with the release of stored biotoxins from the tissues, but that you

may be encountering more toxins at a rate that the CSM can just

barely compensate for.

It takes a long time to get out of this mess and it isn't easy.

-

[Guest guest]

--- In , " erikmoldwarrior "

<erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote

> It takes a long time to get out of this mess and it isn't easy.

> -

>

Thanks for stateing this , so true.

and because its not reconized enough and for other reasons, many are

not getting the immedite medical attention they need , which in my

case and I know many others is makeing it much worse.

People that have to get a lawyer beware, because chances are he

doesn't know enough to know that you need promt medical help

from a specialest. being ill and with brain damage makes it really

hard

I basically was ignored with my illness when I got out of the mold

and had my first lawyer, even though he told me he was doing these

kind of cases, he didn't know nothing, and I didn't know enough to

know that he didn't know.

My illness is what drove me to look or the internet for answers, but

I was so out of it I really was lost and suffering until I made

contact with a expert. but that wasn't until almost 2 years after I

had gotton out. this is why what we do with the site that letitia is

doing is so important and we need to keep in mind that it needs to be

kept a simple, but with the best info. and most important info. for

new moldies to get the most help we can give them. I remember my

start witch was reading at mold-help, about mold, mycotoxins and

illnesses. to much to try to soak it all in when your that ill.

a lot of my anger is because I now know that maybe if I would of got

medical attention asap. I mat be doing much better than I am now.

here I am 4 years after getting out, just learning some important

things I should of been told 4 years ago.

[Guest guest]

,

You mentioned the CSM is not helping your joint pain, two things

come to mind. The first is that CSM only removes the toxins from the

bile. I know you mentioned that your doctor has you taking 2 doses a

day, I was taking 4 doses a day, per Dr.Shoemaker's instructions and

alot of my pain diminished. My fibro went away completely. Some

doctors say they are using his protocol, but are not doing so

exactly. Maybe you aren't getting enough of the toxins out of your

system.

Second, if your bloodwork came back with high levels on the

inflamation markers, you might need other medications to correct

those. I know I had all 6 markers that Dr.Shoemaker tests for

concerning inflamation and am now getting ready to start Procrit to

help in those areas.

CSM is not a " cure all " but a very good start to getting better.

Sharon C.

>

> I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM.

Improvements with

> the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of my CNS symptoms

but not

> continuously.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of ssr3351@...

> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:59 PM

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Joint Pain

>

>

>

>

> Since taking the CSM and being out of the school for 2 yrs. all my

joint

> pain is gone!!

>

> I've noticed that I often get terrible aches in my back and in

other

> joints (hips, arms, shoulders) when I get a lot of mold exposure.

I

> didn't realize the two were connected for a long time, but now

that I

> am taking cholstyramine, the inflammation doesn't last as long so

the

> connection is made much more obvious.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Grettings,

The vcs test is non-specific. Vcs measures the total effect of

neurotoxins on the optic nerve but does not tell which types may be

present. Therefore then, if you take csm thinking to remove all

possible neurotoxins and their effects you might be a bit disappointed.

If this is so csm and vcs testing may have no effect on other

conditions. In this way if the vcs scores remain constant with no help

from continued csm then it is sorry the remainder problem may be from

sources other than the mold? A thing to think on perhaps.

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

, Was your vision *blurry* and now more clear or do you just see

better in some other way?

>

> I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM.

Improvements with

> the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of my CNS symptoms but

not

> continuously.

>

[Guest guest]

My RX is for 2 doses per day. I tried anyway to up the dose to 3 and 4 x per

day and my symptoms increased so substantially that I could not tolerate and

briefly stopped the CSM altogether for 5 days while waiting to see Dr

S-literate doc.

I know that Shoemaker at times suggests higher doses but my doc is pretty

insistent and my own testing (of course I had to test) proved that I have to

be very careful so I am reluctant to up beyond the 2 doses per day. I have

same issues with other vitamins, detox protocols where I am so sensitive and

have to take doses ½ per day etc. I also have to take much reduced dosages

of vita C , Vita E, ALA, NAC, and others otherwise have much worsened

reactions and symptoms.

But not seeing fibro symptoms going away in, maybe a little, since being on

CSM protocol. Improvements in other areas but not so much with fibro…….

Bloodwork has had high levels of inflammation markers for 5 years or more ,

long before doing the shoemaker testing which showed the same as well.

Example CRP, SED rate, C4 etc etc. have been high for a long time……..

I realize CSM isn’t a cure all but my doc isn’t real experienced with

procrit protocols and others and is suggesting I get to Dr. Shoemaker

instead which is 5r hour drive ,complicated costs to stay there and such

which I can’t afford on SSDI so not sure which direction will go in that

regard.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of tigerpaw2c

Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:50 PM

Subject: [] Re: Joint Pain; CSM not resolving these problems

for me...and you?

,

You mentioned the CSM is not helping your joint pain, two things

come to mind. The first is that CSM only removes the toxins from the

bile. I know you mentioned that your doctor has you taking 2 doses a

day, I was taking 4 doses a day, per Dr.Shoemaker's instructions and

alot of my pain diminished. My fibro went away completely. Some

doctors say they are using his protocol, but are not doing so

exactly. Maybe you aren't getting enough of the toxins out of your

system.

Second, if your bloodwork came back with high levels on the

inflamation markers, you might need other medications to correct

those. I know I had all 6 markers that Dr.Shoemaker tests for

concerning inflamation and am now getting ready to start Procrit to

help in those areas.

CSM is not a " cure all " but a very good start to getting better.

Sharon C.

>

> I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM.

Improvements with

> the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of my CNS symptoms

but not

> continuously.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of ssr3351@...

> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:59 PM

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Joint Pain

>

>

>

>

> Since taking the CSM and being out of the school for 2 yrs. all my

joint

> pain is gone!!

>

> I've noticed that I often get terrible aches in my back and in

other

> joints (hips, arms, shoulders) when I get a lot of mold exposure.

I

> didn't realize the two were connected for a long time, but now

that I

> am taking cholstyramine, the inflammation doesn't last as long so

the

> connection is made much more obvious.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" numanumaei " wrote:

>

> Grettings,

>

> The vcs test is non-specific. Vcs measures the total effect of

> neurotoxins on the optic nerve but does not tell which types may be

present. Therefore then, if you take csm thinking to remove all

> possible neurotoxins and their effects you might be a bit

disappointed. If this is so csm and vcs testing may have no effect on

other conditions. In this way if the vcs scores remain constant with

no help from continued csm then it is sorry the remainder problem may

be from sources other than the mold? A thing to think on perhaps.

>

> Thank you,

>

The VCS indicates the effect of neurotoxin-induced capillary

hypoperfusion on the nerve heads in the retina. The eyes are the

quickest areas to show measurable responses to neurotoxic exposure and

it is the fact that there is some kind of difference to be measured

that gives the diagnosis when placed in the context of Dr Shoemakers

other tests.

While the VCS test doesn't definitely tell you what is wrong, it

definitely tells you that something IS wrong: - a type of

hypoperfusion that is a typical result of cytokine induced damage -

and the other tests narrow down the focus to identify the culprit.

Dr Shoemaker describes the meaning of the other tests needed to make

the diagnosis in Mold Warriors,- but it's not straightforward as

in " testing directly for mycotoxins " . It's more like telling the

difference between a crocodile and piranha by dangling your feet in

the water so you can look at the bite marks.

Once you see the big tooth marks - you know it's not a little fish.

-

[Guest guest]

,

Excellant response. That's a keeper.

KC

> >

> > Grettings,

> >

> > The vcs test is non-specific. Vcs measures the total effect of

> > neurotoxins on the optic nerve but does not tell which types may

be

> present. Therefore then, if you take csm thinking to remove all

> > possible neurotoxins and their effects you might be a bit

> disappointed. If this is so csm and vcs testing may have no

effect on

> other conditions. In this way if the vcs scores remain constant

with

> no help from continued csm then it is sorry the remainder problem

may

> be from sources other than the mold? A thing to think on perhaps.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

>

> The VCS indicates the effect of neurotoxin-induced capillary

> hypoperfusion on the nerve heads in the retina. The eyes are the

> quickest areas to show measurable responses to neurotoxic exposure

and

> it is the fact that there is some kind of difference to be

measured

> that gives the diagnosis when placed in the context of Dr

Shoemakers

> other tests.

> While the VCS test doesn't definitely tell you what is wrong, it

> definitely tells you that something IS wrong: - a type of

> hypoperfusion that is a typical result of cytokine induced damage -

> and the other tests narrow down the focus to identify the culprit.

> Dr Shoemaker describes the meaning of the other tests needed to

make

> the diagnosis in Mold Warriors,- but it's not straightforward as

> in " testing directly for mycotoxins " . It's more like telling the

> difference between a crocodile and piranha by dangling your feet

in

> the water so you can look at the bite marks.

> Once you see the big tooth marks - you know it's not a little fish.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Did you get another Lyme test by neuro and it come back positive or

is he just dxing Lyme by your symptoms?

what was your MMP9 with Dr. test? I know you told me

high but what are the numbers? Mine was 1112.

The Low dose naltrexone hasn't solved symptoms that increased with me

since Fall hvac heat and the air scrubbers blowing toxins around and

me inhaling them. It's like most all the symptoms that got relieved

with LDN came back and more. Some days I don't feel symptoms as

much and others I do. It can take up to 10 months tho for endorphins

to catch up again once they lower. I definitely can feel symptoms

increase at work. CSM has helped the intestinal stuff a bit and I

haven't felt that extreme being eaten alive feeling that I got after

inhaling the air scrubbers toxins. I seem to have got bad intestinal

sypmtoms and stomach burning and other symptoms back after all the

remediation etc. My VCS test was a bit better than first time so

will see next time. I go back in June and called and combined the

skin testing with next followup. I know I have felt weak and not sure

if from the detoxing or that and other things too. I want my energy

back! I hope between the CSM and LDN that things will get better

eventually. Good thing I got the house cleaned up before feeling

weak. I couldn't do all that right now. Will be glad when Spring

allergens chill out too!

I also started showering to get toxins off me from work. Sores went

away but then I got one back. My head starts itching once I walk in

this place. I really hate I have to breathe toxins for 8 hours a

day. Boss isn't doing anything fast about filling out Osha forms.

Actually, I think he has forgot about it and will probably lose the

forms. He as major memory loss and it shows. If others in here

would speak up, he may act faster but he thinks I'm the only one

being affected and also thinks it's only from my toxic house that is

less toxic now after remediation. I know that it's not totally gone

from my house but do have 3 Hepa air purifiers running 24/7.

Other coworker told me she has memory problems, tingling, shin pain

(which is what I feel again) and chest pain, had an adominal

experience and head itching. I told her she is being affected. She

may go see Dr. T soon. I told her she can do the vision test online

just to see if she passes. Can someone tell me how that is done

online? Do you see the same type thing I looked at and get so many

inches from the screen and can more than one person do the test once

it's on the screen? I may pay for her to do it b/c I'm curious if

she will pass.

Well, off to go drink my CSM.....

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

I may try 3 day for a week and see how goes. I did try twice 3 a day

but I will need Dr. T to change my precription so I can get more to

last a month.

how many do you take per day? Rhonda

> >

> > I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM.

> Improvements with

> > the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of my CNS symptoms

> but not

> > continuously.

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> [mailto: ]

> > On Behalf Of ssr3351@

> > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:59 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: [] Re: Joint Pain

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Since taking the CSM and being out of the school for 2 yrs. all

my

> joint

> > pain is gone!!

> >

> > I've noticed that I often get terrible aches in my back and in

> other

> > joints (hips, arms, shoulders) when I get a lot of mold

exposure.

> I

> > didn't realize the two were connected for a long time, but now

> that I

> > am taking cholstyramine, the inflammation doesn't last as long

so

> the

> > connection is made much more obvious.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I was able to get 3x per day and then refill prescription at the 27 day

mark. For me, increasing CSM made me lots worse but now think maybe was the

magnesium shots which really made me mucho worse….Like my body couldn’t

handle the effect of the shot even though my blood serum levels on magnesium

are always extremely low despite supplementation. No more mag shots for me

Anyway I know you are asking and I know you know that Dr. T suggest 2x

per day.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Rhonda

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:11 PM

Subject: [] Re: Joint Pain; CSM not resolving these problems

for me...and you?

I may try 3 day for a week and see how goes. I did try twice 3 a day

but I will need Dr. T to change my precription so I can get more to

last a month.

how many do you take per day? Rhonda

> >

> > I am not seeing any reduction in joint pain with the CSM.

> Improvements with

> > the VCS contrast sensitivity testing and some of my CNS symptoms

> but not

> > continuously.

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> [mailto: ]

> > On Behalf Of ssr3351@

> > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:59 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: [] Re: Joint Pain

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Since taking the CSM and being out of the school for 2 yrs. all

my

> joint

> > pain is gone!!

> >

> > I've noticed that I often get terrible aches in my back and in

> other

> > joints (hips, arms, shoulders) when I get a lot of mold

exposure.

> I

> > didn't realize the two were connected for a long time, but now

> that I

> > am taking cholstyramine, the inflammation doesn't last as long

so

> the

> > connection is made much more obvious.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

A question: What are CSM and LDN and what, specifically are they

supposed to do? Thanks. Love, Joyce

[Guest guest]

Joyce/

Initials can be so confusing. I get caught up in looking these up

too. However LDN can also be 'Low Dose Naltrexone' which has been

discussed here also I believe. I don't know if it also refers to a

fat. LDH is a fat substance, so if person was referring to LDN and

not LDH, then probably referring to 'low dose Naltrexone'.

>

> A question: What are CSM and LDN and what, specifically are they

> supposed to do? Thanks. Love, Joyce