Re: unusual tinctureing going on

[Guest guest]

The tinctured goat hair helped me think out of the box. I have

> a stallion, Valient Bey, and as a stallion I noticed he has a

natural " musk "

> scent. I am not sure how decribe what I tinctured, any how I let

you know if

> I get a musk scent. Hope so...

The search for the musk scent have carried me in some of the farthest

spots of the Hindu Kush and I fully understand the search for a musk

scent substitute, but the point maybe is rather the use of an animal

note in our botanical scents, in order to obtain a perfume with an

other dimension. Like the small machines resembling binoculars

through which you look in order to watch 3 dimensional photographs.

These animal aromatic substances are always pheromone molecules and

they appeal to our nervous system and to our emotions as no vegetal

really does.

They do not need to be perceptible in a perfume, it is enough for

them to be there.

I remember a customer who recognized any tiny amount of rose present

in any of my compositions because he hated rose due to some old

memory. In the same way I observed that people recognize straight

away in my compositions the ingredients that they particularly like

or dislike even if I myself do not even smell them due to their tiny

concentration.

I understood that our nose is really working like a gaz

chromatography machine unconsciously and that what we can perceive of

a perfume may be very different from person to person.

The search for a third dimension of perfumery goes through animal

scents but the use of them is a hard path with prohibitive high

prices, difficulty to obtain and ethical dilemmas.

So the first step was hair goat tincturing as a sustainable

substitute for musk deer but more can be done and your idea to

tincture horse hair is a step forward.

I myself shall tincture a mutton this week, because yesterday I

smelled a very nice powerful one at my neighbours. With a liter or

two of alcohol and a big pan I shall rinse it to get his perfume.

Mutton smell is somehow sweeter than the one of billy goat, and

certainly more acceptable to most people than civet.

Knowing how civet can blend into marvellous perfumes, there is no

reason that horse or mutton does not.

Just imagine the amount of mutton absolute could be produced as a by

product of whool washing in Australia for instance.

AbdesSalaam Attar

[Guest guest]

At 09:14 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:

>Hello all,

>

>When I joined this group I knew you all would be and have been an inspiration

>for many things. The tinctured goat hair helped me think out of the box.

>I have

>a stallion, Valient Bey, and as a stallion I noticed he has a natural " musk "

>scent. I am not sure how decribe what I tinctured, any how I let you know if

>I get a musk scent. Hope so...\

Ok, where you snipping the hair from? Afraid to ask, LOL. The goat hair

comes from around the horns, where the scent glands are located. I thought

they were from " the other end " and was relieved when the goatherder told me

there was no danger of being kicked involved in the snipping!

>Also, I tried to find the book that I thought was by I Kaufman, all I

>found were cookbooks. Did I get the name right?

He wrote a lot of books, just search for the one " Perfume "

Here it is on Amazon, the cheapest used one is $26

http://tinyurl.com/rz2cc Check Ebay occasionally. I've always noticed that

for a while after I chat about it here, the cheaper ones get snapped up

( got one for $20) and then the frenzy settles down, and search

again. I got one on Ebay for $5 once! I just saw a signed one on Ebay for

$99 (pass!)

Oh, here are two on half.com, $20 each -- snap them up, folks!

http://product.half.ebay.com/_W0QQcpidZ1171657098QQprZ2890449

My work is done for today ;-)

>

Anya

http://anyasgarden.com/perfumes.htm Parfums Natural

http://artisannaturalperfumers.com The Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild

http://.com The Premier Natural Perfume Site Gateway

[Guest guest]

>

> Also, I tried to find the book that I thought was by

> I Kaufman, all I

> found were cookbooks. Did I get the name right?

>

> And my very brief email " promise " . I will try to be

> a good newbie NP and

> post wnl.

>

> out of the box,

>

,

I couldn't find the book on Amazon so I googled

" I Kaufman perfume " and found several places

to buy the book. Good luck with your tinctures!

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> The tinctured goat hair helped me think out of the box. I have

> > a stallion, Valient Bey, and as a stallion I noticed he has a

> natural " musk "

> > scent. I am not sure how decribe what I tinctured, any how I let

> you know if

> > I get a musk scent. Hope so...

>

" salaam_attar007 " <salaam@...> wrote:

snipped:

>

> The search for the musk scent have carried me in some of the farthest

> spots of the Hindu Kush

> These animal aromatic substances are always pheromone molecules and

> they appeal to our nervous system and to our emotions as no vegetal

> really does.

> They do not need to be perceptible in a perfume, it is enough for

> them to be there.

> snip <

> I understood that our nose is really working like a gaz

> chromatography machine unconsciously and that what we can perceive of

> a perfume may be very different from person to person.

>

Thanks for that explanation, very nicely written! That helps me to

understand why sometimes a toothpick dip is enough for some scents.

Elise

Ft. Lauderdale, FL

http://www.tambela.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Ok, where you snipping the hair from? Afraid to ask, LOL. The goat

> hair comes from around the horns, where the scent glands are located. I

thought they were from " the other end " and was relieved when the goatherder

told me there was no danger of being kicked involved in the snipping!

hehheheeh, anya, i think with perfume the film coming out and all

these perfumers in the barnyard, you should produce a book on working with

animal scents, and the peeps on here that are experimenting with this should

visually document their work with photography and written word, i know a

publisher would def be interested in this, and now is the time, as perfume the

movie comes out.

so, rush, people, and let me know if i can assist in querying this to

a book agent.

i also think pics of old stills, and work areas with descriptions of

process would intrigue in a book,

i am thinking a series...coffee table.

xxoxoox

Much affection

L

also, i am a photographer, if we sell the project i am happy to fly

around the world photographing everyone's processes.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello all,

>

> When I joined this group I knew you all would be and have been an inspiration

> for many things. The tinctured goat hair helped me think out of the box. I

have

> a stallion, Valient Bey, and as a stallion I noticed he has a natural " musk "

> scent. I am not sure how decribe what I tinctured, any how I let you know if

> I get a musk scent. Hope so...

>

> Also, I tried to find the book that I thought was by I Kaufman, all I

> found were cookbooks. Did I get the name right?

>

> And my very brief email " promise " . I will try to be a good newbie NP and

> post wnl.

>

> out of the box,

>

>

> Hi

I googled for this book too and it threw up a variety of books - cookery amongst

others!!

However, I found www.abebooks.com (or if in UK, www.abebooks.co.uk), which has

second

hand copies in good condition at a good price.

Hope this helps!

(London, UK)

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Someone a few years ago asked me, when I was making

> incense (B.P., or Before Perfumery) whether I thought

> a scented textile would ever sell. I told her that I

> was pretty sure that people usually like textiles they

> buy to not smell of anything, and that if they want to

> perfume them they do so themselves, but an interesting

> twist on this was when my friend the priest

> specifically commissioned a perfumed textile!

>

> Alfred

>

I would bet you could sell as many fragranced scarves as you could make. It's

not a totally

new idea, but it's a great idea!

Tisserand

[Guest guest]

> >Hello all,

> >

> >When I joined this group I knew you all would be and have been an

inspiration

> >for many things. The tinctured goat hair helped me think out of

the box.

>

> >Also, I tried to find the book that I thought was by I

Kaufman, all I

> >found were cookbooks. Did I get the name right?

>

>

> ( got one for $20) and then the frenzy settles down, and

search

> again.

> Anya

> http://anyasgarden.com/perfumes.htm Parfums Natural

> http://artisannaturalperfumers.com The Artisan Natural Perfumers

Guild

> http://.com The Premier Natural Perfume Site Gateway

This post has drawn me out of the woodwork 'cause it cracks me up.

I'm just learning Natural Perfume Making so I just lurk and learn for

now.

I have a 5 month old kitten that's becoming a " man " . (Unfortunately

he'll be able to enjoy only until Oct 13th when he makes a trip to

the vets, if you know what I mean). But he throws off a very musky

scent right now. Not unpleasant at all. I think of you guys when I

catch his musky whiff. I keep thinking, how do I bottle this scent?

*******************************************************************

Recently, I was lucky enough to get a copy of " PERFUME " for $20.00

too.

Tammy

[Guest guest]

> > Alfred

> >

> I would bet you could sell as many fragranced scarves as you could

make. It's not a totally

> new idea, but it's a great idea!

>

> Tisserand

>

What about perfumed hair ties!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> > > Alfred

> > >

> > I would bet you could sell as many fragranced scarves as you could

> make. It's not a totally

> > new idea, but it's a great idea!

> >

> > Tisserand

> >

>

> What about perfumed hair ties!

>

> Ruth

>

I perfume ribbons and then tie them to one of those oscillating fans, if I am in

a large

room (without aircon), you get a wonderful, fragrant waft and it looks pretty

too!!

tanya ;-)

[Guest guest]

>

> I was very pleased to learn, after letting the perfume on the

scarf sit

> for a few hours, that when I flicked the scarf through the air

softly

> it still cast perfume into the room in a noticeable way, and the

effect

> was even more wonderful than I thought it would be.

> Alfred

> in San Francisco

Hi Alfred,

You are doing some cool stuff over there on the other coast. A

fashion designer friend of mine in NYC, about 10 years ago, knitted

some sparkly scarves on a machine. She then sewed a tiny pocket on

to one corner of each scarf; into which she put a small absorbent

pad scented with her own natural perfumes. These pads could be

replenished with the customer's own scents or the designer's. I

thought that was a nice way to add scent to an article of clothing.

Best,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

> >These animal aromatic substances are always pheromone molecules and

> they appeal to our nervous system and to our emotions as no vegetal

> really does.

> They do not need to be perceptible in a perfume, it is enough for

> them to be there.<

> So are you saying that even if I don't preceive a musk scent from this

> tincture, it still would have an effect? How would I " measure " this?

>

Animals respond to animal pheromones in predictable ways, and human pheromones

have

much in common with that of some animals. However, our responses to these are

less

predictable. Sexual arousal, for instance, is also very much dependent on

visual,

emotional, and a multitude of other contextual signals. But at some level the

odorous

message is still picked up, and this happens even when the odor is not at a

perceptible

level - when it's " below threshold " . Menstrual synchronicity is due to a

completely

unconscious pheromonal signalling between women who live in close proximity.

There is much research showing that human behaviour can also be influenced, in a

number of ways, by plant-derived essential oils, at both above- and

below-threshold

levels. The whole study of responses to odors in insects, animals and humans is

a

fascinating one.

Tisserand

[Guest guest]

> They do not need to be perceptible in a perfume, it is enough for

> them to be there.<

> So are you saying that even if I don't preceive a musk scent from this

> tincture, it still would have an effect? How would I " measure " this?

It is measurable in sales as people are more attracted to perfumes that

contain animal scents.

Abdessalaam Attar

www.profumo.it <http://www.profumo.it/>

kodo, La Via del Profumo

[Guest guest]

> They do not need to be perceptible in a perfume, it is enough for

> them to be there.<

> So are you saying that even if I don't preceive a musk scent from this

> tincture, it still would have an effect? How would I " measure " this?

It is measurable in sales as people are more attracted to perfumes that

contain animal scents.

Abdessalaam Attar

www.profumo.it <http://www.profumo.it/>

kodo, La Via del Profumo

[Guest guest]

……….The whole study of responses to odors in insects, animals and

humans is a fascinating one………..

Dear ,

you must be used to it and I hope not to bother you with this, but I

humbly say that I am grateful to you because it is with a book of yours

and an other one of Valnet that I started on the Way of Scent 20 years

ago. You research on psycho aromatherapy has also been a revelation to

me and an indispensable piece of the puzzle in my understanding of

olfactory psychology.

After which;

Pheromones is indeed a fascinating field and I have published online a

condensed research at

http://www.profumo.it/perfume/pheromone_perfume/pheromones.asp

<http://www.profumo.it/perfume/pheromone_perfume/pheromones.asp>

there are five pages, the last one is perhaps the most interesting to

the common people " human Pheromones " but it is still in Italian.

It will be translated and more will go online.

I advise the reading of these pages to all those who wish to understand

what are pheromones and what they imply for us and most of living

organism.

Some vegetal aromatic molecules are very similar in structure and smell

to animal pheromones, you easily recognize them in Sandalwood, cocoa,

Vanilla and quite a few others, but they do not possess the animalic

vital force.

For this reason I sustain with the perfumers of old that a

tridimentional perfume must contain animal scents, because a perfume is

not just a scent for the nose, not just emotions for the heart but also

energy for the soul.

Abdessalaam Attar

www.profumo.it <http://www.profumo.it/>

kodo, La Via del Profumo

[Guest guest]

.......people are more attracted to perfumes that contain animal scents.

> Does this include synthetic animal scents?

> .................

I really can't say because I never used them. I know that there is a

widespread anosmy to Muskdeer among the male population which is known

afflict perfumers also in regard to synthetic musks.

Nevertheless living organism, plants or animals, when they produce an

aromatic molecule, produce it either right or left turning, while

chemistry produces them right and left in equal parts according to the

law of probabilities.

It has been observed in bio essays with insect that the active molecule

in a pheromone compound was only right or left turning and that the

presence of its opposite twin nullified it's effect.

Abdessalaam Attar

www.profumo.it <http://www.profumo.it/>

kodo, La Via del Profumo

>

[Guest guest]

> Dear ,

>

> you must be used to it and I hope not to bother you with this, but I

> humbly say that I am grateful to you because it is with a book of yours

> and an other one of Valnet that I started on the Way of Scent 20 years

> ago. You research on psycho aromatherapy has also been a revelation to

> me and an indispensable piece of the puzzle in my understanding of

> olfactory psychology.

>

Thank you Abdessalaam, words of thanks are always gratefully received. From

1977-1982

The Art of Aromatherapy was the only aromatherapy book in English, then the

translation

of Dr. Valnet's book was published. The amount that there is to know about

natural

fragrance materials and the sense of smell is quite incredible, and of course we

are all still

learning every day.

> Pheromones is indeed a fascinating field and I have published online a

> condensed research at

> http://www.profumo.it/perfume/pheromone_perfume/pheromones.asp

> <http://www.profumo.it/perfume/pheromone_perfume/pheromones.asp>

>

> there are five pages, the last one is perhaps the most interesting to

> the common people " human Pheromones " but it is still in Italian.

> It will be translated and more will go online.

>

> I advise the reading of these pages to all those who wish to understand

> what are pheromones and what they imply for us and most of living

> organism.

>

This is very good reading - hot stuff!

> Some vegetal aromatic molecules are very similar in structure and smell

> to animal pheromones, you easily recognize them in Sandalwood, cocoa,

> Vanilla and quite a few others, but they do not possess the animalic

> vital force.

>

> For this reason I sustain with the perfumers of old that a

> tridimentional perfume must contain animal scents, because a perfume is

> not just a scent for the nose, not just emotions for the heart but also

> energy for the soul.

>

I'm not convinced of this, or that it is what everyone looks for in every scent,

but each to

his/her own. And if your right, maybe Grenouille was really onto something...

Tisserand

> Abdessalaam Attar

>

> www.profumo.it <http://www.profumo.it/>

>

> kodo, La Via del Profumo

>

[Guest guest]

> > For this reason I sustain with the perfumers of old that a

> > tridimentional perfume must contain animal scents, because a

perfume is not just a scent for the nose, not just emotions for the

heart but also energy for the soul.

> >

> I'm not convinced of this, or that it is what everyone looks for in

every scent, but each to his/her own. And if your right, maybe

Grenouille was really onto something...

>

> Tisserand

I agree with you, Mr. Tisserand. I've always found musks/animal

notes in perfumes very disagreeable in any amount and any animal that

was smelling musky in dire need of a bath.

A dear college friend loved perfumes with musk and they all smelled

unberably rank to me.

And one presumes vegans would reject musks as well--certainly not

everyone is looking for animalic notes.

Judith