Re: Fw: serious stuff and managers

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the support. No the child is fine and

thriving and mum wants to protect her child. I only

found out about her situation because she had

sustained an injury so had to tread very carefully to

discuss the situation, which was shared in confidence.

I quess my supervisor is thinking of risks and risk

assessment - which I understand, but practice is

always tricky and trying to work with someone in this

situation is like treading on egg shells. jeanette

--- ann ebeid <annebeid@...> wrote:

>

> I agree with your perception Jeanette-what is the

> point(from mothers

> perspective) of referring onto other agencies- and

> chances are the mother

> might disengage if she feels the situation is

> outside her control.

> Whose problem is it?

> What happened to the notion of client empowerment?

> (I am assuming that there

> are no child protection issues as you haven't raised

> any.)

> The essence of super vision(as per UKCC position

> statement) is reflection on

> action isn't it?

> On what basis did the C.P.A ground her theory?

> Regards, Ann

>

>

>

>

>

> Ann Ebeid

>

>

>

>

> >From: jeanette clifton <j.e.clifton@...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Re: Fw: serious stuff and

> managers

> >Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:00:31 +0000 (GMT)

> >

> >It is good to have comments from the coal face and

> >perceptions on what Health Visitors feel being

> asked

> >to do. I feel that the relationship between client

> >and hv is changing as a result of a need to gather

> >information, managers wanting to know what we do

> and

> >prove our worth, but also because of fear of

> >litigation and not having asked certain questions

> and

> >then bad publicity for trusts and managers. As an

> >example I had quite a heated discussion with my

> child

> >protection advisor on Friday regarding a family I

> am

> >visiting where domestic violence is involved. I

> feel

> >very strongly the need to deal with this situation

> >very carefully and felt I had acheived quite alot

> in

> >gaining this women`s confidence and listening to

> her

> >difficult life, whilst providing her with

> information

> >to secure her safety and tht of her child. My

> child

> >protection advisor was wanting various referrals

> >instantly and wanted to know why I hadn`t ask this

> or

> >that question. I personally let the mother lead the

> >conversation and tell me what she wanted to tell

> me.

> >(which was quite a lot in the end and very painful

> for

> >her to share) Professionally, I accepted the need

> for

> >supervision and glad to discuss the scenario - but

> I

> >am the one visiting as I explained to my

> supervisor.

> >Management may have levels of anxiety about what

> >health visitors are doing and fear of things going

> >wrong because we haven`t certain information

> recorded

> >- but we have to be trusted and it is a fine line

> to

> >tread between the need to collect

> information,choosing

> >when to refer to another agency, and working with

> a

> >family for change - all of which takes time.

> Dealing

> >with people is messy and its not simple just to

> fill

> >in forms and collect data. We can fill in a variety

> of

> >forms with families but not achieve anything

> >meaningful for them. We can have excellent records

> and

> >followed all protocols, but its often the human

> >interaction that makes the difference. Trust is

> >important. Fortunately I felt I left the

> supervision

> >on good terms, and will continue to visit the

> family

> >and hopefully be invited in again. Jeanette

> ---

> >Robyn Pound <robyn_pound@...> wrote:

> > > , Yes I am also a health visitor but never

> got

> > > around to being a COPT because of involving

> myself

> > > in other projects that never quite fitted usual

> > > health visiting expectations of the time. I

> just

> > > did it, called it public health as a way of

> > > explaining what I was doing if anyone asked.

> Now I

> > > see that working on several levels with

> families,

> > > communities and working to influence services

> with

> > > other agencicies is what everyone is supposed to

> be

> > > doing! Fascinating. There are some wonderful

> > > things going on around the country. I have been

> > > reading Frances Rehal and Helene Langley's

> 'Ensuring

> > > A Sure Start' and marvel at the similarity of

> > > insights about what is useful for families they

> > > arrived at to my own self study insights. I

> also

> > > have a nagging feeling that public health as a

> DH

> > > prescribed way of working, that needs to show

> > > measurable outcomes, may actually change or at

> least

> > > negatively influence the possibilities.

> > >

> > > Will you present your questions to your area HV

> > > meetings and see what happens? I am trying to

> pluck

> > > up courage to send around the AIMS article and

>

> > > Houston and Cowleys article about

> > > Vulnerability measurement tools to promote

> debate.

> > > Robyn

> > >

> > >

> > > Tom Lund-Lack <tcll@...> wrote:

> > > Robyn,

> > > Thank you for your reply. I'm posing all these

> > > issues because I'm a full-time health visitor

> and

> > > COPT and am out there at the coal face so to

> speak.

> > > We don't just talk about it and debate it, we

> have

> > > to do it.

> > >

> > > Re: Fw: serious stuff and

> > > managers

> > >

> > >

> > > , I think yours are really useful

> questions to

> > > be asking not because I think there is anything

> > > wrong with doing antenatal visits but because if

> we

> > > keep asking ourselves and our clients these

> sorts of

> > > questions we might begin to understand more

> fully

> > > what is useful to them and what we are trying to

> > > achieve. Isn't it how we do it rather than what

> we

> > > do that is important here? Parents seem keen to

> at

> > > least lay eyes on the health visitor to get a

> feel

> > > for how it is going to be in the unknown

> territory

> > > after the birth. I probably don't need to say

> again

> > > how much I hate checklists and external agendas

> but

> > > I also realise that completely free flow, no

> > > guidance may be terrifying to initiates to

> health

> > > visiting. It seems important to me to uncover

> the

> > > underlying guiding principles we take to our

> visits

> > > and my guess is that 'identifying health needs'

> is

> > > only one and might create a contradiction to

> other

> > > intentions such as, 'creating an authentic

> > > relationship'. Thinking this through

> > > might influence how health needs are identified

> and

> > > how urgent it is to do it now. Then of course

> the

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

I still cannot believe the AIMS articles description of HVs, I know there are bad apples and I hope you all have seen the replies I have received from the chair of AIMS, she seems to be quite provocative. I am trying to raise awareness of the importance of creating a relationship described in the previous e-mailers approach, both in my student and local colleagues. I think nationally we all need to raise awareness of what we do and how we do it. Kathy Soderquist

[Guest guest]

, hear hear

Dalton

Community Matron (Public

Health)

Guildford & Waverley

PCT

Tele: 01483 783273

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-----Original

Message-----

From: kms160360@...

[mailto:kms160360@...]

Sent: 09 November 2004 07:58

Subject: Re: Fw:

serious stuff and managers

I still

cannot believe the AIMS articles description of HVs, I know there are bad

apples and I hope you all have seen the replies I have received from the chair

of AIMS, she seems to be quite provocative. I am trying to raise awareness of

the importance of creating a relationship described in the previous e-mailers

approach, both in my student and local colleagues. I think nationally we all

need to raise awareness of what we do and how we do it. Kathy Soderquist

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have. As I have no qualms in admitting I am one of those HVs Joanne Moorhead is talking about who doesn't agree with imposing a blanket 6 month no solids rule on every mum and baby, am going to reply to it.

Shouldn't bank on the CPHVA replying - they would have been better ensuring the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition which replaced COMA had a HV on it to give the fieldworkers point of view, as COMA did. Instead, when I attended one of their open meetings when the recommendation was discussed and asked why no health visitor was on the committee as they were the ones who were most in touch with mothers and babes in the community I got told by the Chairman, the paediatricians could represent the HVs view. ---aaaaaaagh! I

I also got told at the time that the DoH would put out the WHO recommendation out to the professionals for consultation before deciding on this - was anyone on Senate consulted? I certainly wasn't !

June