Re: Least favorite scent...*

[Guest guest]

Anya posed the question:

> >So far I have 's top no-no's, tarragon, anise and eucalyptus. Mine

is

> >patchouli.

> >Whats yours? and Why? Do you find it so abhorrent that it makes your toes

> >curl? or is it just that you cant seem - ever - to get the dilution

right?

> >Do you persevere with it, or just ignore it?

My least favorite scent:

Garlic Essential Oil from LNP. I've used it in Soy Candles, to gain entry

to garlic festivals. I can only stomach making it in weather I can work

outdoors.

It actually smells much much better in the burning candle, but just raw, and

pouring the candles, is a stomach wrenching affair. I adore garlic, but

garlic eo is even as LNP staff warned me " The oil from hell " , literally told

me, I'm warning you we draw straws for who has to fill the order and people

beg out based on who recently it was their turn. I laughed and " thought " he

was exagerating. On using it Literally my insides threatened to run

away. Had to diminish the strength to > 1/2 teaspoon per lb of soy wax. I

know of no scent like it. A single votive has your building smelling like a

strong garlic specialty restaurant.

(I love Eucalyptus, and Anise Star in candles) not together, but both of

those scents are a joy to me to work with. I want to roll in Anise like a

cat does catnip.

[Guest guest]

My least favorite scent:

Garlic Essential Oil

Patti

~~~~~~~~~~

Just before this Anya had said Patchouli. Now fun thing here! Mine used to

be ditto. Patchouli. But I've been taking aromatherapy courses and...I

have to admit. Garlic essential oil. That is just WRONG. I try to

maintain an open mind. The school I am going through provides essential oil

so you can actually experience. They included garlic. I tried. Honestly I

did try to be open and receptive to such a foul strong smell. And Anya, I

was so very happy to grab patchouli, one of the scents I do not feel as a

soul mate too unless blended ever so lightly with other oil like sandlewood,

jasmine, or oak moss, that...I was in joy when I grabbed that bottle to rid

myself of the garlic scent.

Garlic essential oil is SO strong they shrink wrap it in plastic before

sending it in your " kit " .

I am still trying to figure out, exactly how you could blend a pleasing a

desirable scent using garlic! I still have to get pass the smell to type it

and describe if it is a top, middle or base! I still have that puppy

setting there. In fact, I have more just because I am trying to keep an

open mind and figure out...what do you blend garlic with?

AND, I am an herbalist who absolutely adores Garlic! I just hope I am not

tramatized by the essential oil.

Robin K

[Guest guest]

On 23/02/06, R. Klanott <rklanott@...> wrote:

>

> My least favorite scent:

> Garlic Essential Oil

> Patti

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Just before this Anya had said Patchouli. Now fun thing here! Mine used

> to

> be ditto. Patchouli. But I've been taking aromatherapy courses and...I

> have to admit. Garlic essential oil. That is just WRONG. I try to

> maintain an open mind. The school I am going through provides essential

> oil

> so you can actually experience. They included garlic. I tried. Honestly

> I

> did try to be open and receptive to such a foul strong smell. And Anya, I

>

> was so very happy to grab patchouli, one of the scents I do not feel as a

> soul mate too unless blended ever so lightly with other oil like

> sandlewood,

> jasmine, or oak moss, that...I was in joy when I grabbed that bottle to

> rid

> myself of the garlic scent.

>

> Garlic essential oil is SO strong they shrink wrap it in plastic before

> sending it in your " kit " .

>

> I am still trying to figure out, exactly how you could blend a pleasing a

> desirable scent using garlic! I still have to get pass the smell to type

> it

> and describe if it is a top, middle or base! I still have that puppy

> setting there. In fact, I have more just because I am trying to keep an

> open mind and figure out...what do you blend garlic with?

>

> AND, I am an herbalist who absolutely adores Garlic! I just hope I am not

>

> tramatized by the essential oil.

>

> Robin K

Hi Robin

To the best of my knowledge, Garlic oil has no place in mainstream

aromatherapy, either in skin products (cream, lotions etc) or massage

therapy, and I am a little surprised to see it provided as part of an " AT

kit " . I just cant think of an occasion I would contemplate using it for a

client.

It is (occasionally) used by animal therapists who are properly trained

in the use of plant aromatics.

(see http://www.ingraham.co.uk/ and http://www.geota.co.uk/ )

Its also wildly used by the food flavoring industry.

Other uses would be in insect/fly repellent formulas but again, because of

the smell, mainly by animal practitioners.

It does have good anti fungal, bactericidal properties, but then so do

other, more aromatically pleasing oils!

As for use in perfumery, well, funnily enough I brought this question up

some time ago because I had concocted a fly repellent for my horses in which

I used crushed garlic cloves in the original brew. I topped up the blend as

it ran out with more diluted aromatics, patchouli, geranium, litsea,

rosemary plus others, but added no more garlic (I was out of garlic) so the

garlic aroma was almost (but not quite) undetectable. One or two people at

the farm thought it revolting, but at least two said it was " gorgeous " (!)

and felt it would make a nice perfume - though I should add we were all

hungry at the time of spraying!

It may have a use with oregano and marjoram to produce an ambient room

fragrance for those (like me!) who love fresh cooked pizza, but only ever

manage to get the lousy, bland, frozen ones that smell only of the

cardboard box they come in ;-)

LLx

(the original patchouli hater...)

[Guest guest]

....steam distilled lime.

Feh.

Smells like fruit on its way south. Cold pressed, OTOH, is lovely.

[Guest guest]

At 04:12 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

>My least favorite scent:

>Garlic Essential Oil

>Patti

>

>~~~~~~~~~~

>

>Just before this Anya had said Patchouli. Now fun thing here! Mine used to

>be ditto. Patchouli. But I've been taking aromatherapy courses and...I

>have to admit. Garlic essential oil. That is just WRONG.

Hi Robin

It sure is. There is no place for garlic oil in aromatherapy, even in the

weirdest, most incompetent book written on AT, there is no place for

garlic. It's produced for the food industry.

And Anya, I

>was so very happy to grab patchouli, one of the scents I do not feel as a

>soul mate too unless blended ever so lightly with other oil like sandlewood,

>jasmine, or oak moss, that...I was in joy when I grabbed that bottle to rid

>myself of the garlic scent.

Many hate patchouli. Try to find some iron-free aged patchouli. It's much

softer. I have learned to " love " or at least appreciate all oils. They all

have a place in perfumery, which, as you are learning, is much different

from aromatherapy.

Ask your AT " teacher " for the AT references on the use of garlic. I'd love

if you email me privately with the name of the school. I have some good ol'

aromatherapists who'd love to find out, also ;-)

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

[Guest guest]

At 09:00 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

>It may have a use with oregano and marjoram to produce an ambient room

>fragrance for those (like me!) who love fresh cooked pizza,

Pizzatherapy, widely practiced by wide Americans on a daily or biweekly

schedule - now there's a use for the garlic oil -- dilute in olive oil and

drizzle on pizza.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

[Guest guest]

On 23/02/06, Anya <mccoy@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Robin

>

> It sure is. There is no place for garlic oil in aromatherapy, even in the

> weirdest, most incompetent book written on AT, there is no place for garlic.

> It's produced for the food industry.

>

> And Anya, I

> >was so very happy to grab patchouli, one of the scents I do not feel as a

> >soul mate too unless blended ever so lightly with other oil like

> sandlewood,

> >jasmine, or oak moss, that...I was in joy when I grabbed that bottle to

> rid

> >myself of the garlic scent.

>

> Many hate patchouli. Try to find some iron-free aged patchouli. It's much

> softer.

Iron-free? Where would I get that?

I have learned to " love " or at least appreciate all oils. They all

> have a place in perfumery, which, as you are learning, is much different

> from aromatherapy.

Seconded!! and still on a " learning curve " that's teaching me to think in

terms of " aroma " rather than *therapy*. Two very different arts.

Ask your AT " teacher " for the AT references on the use of garlic. I'd love

> if you email me privately with the name of the school. I have some good ol'

> aromatherapists who'd love to find out, also ;-)

.......especially if they are teaching from the UK....or claim to have a UK

accreditation board certification.

LLx

[Guest guest]

On 23/02/06, Anya <mccoy@...> wrote:

>

> At 09:00 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

> >It may have a use with oregano and marjoram to produce an ambient room

> >fragrance for those (like me!) who love fresh cooked pizza,

>

> Pizzatherapy, widely practiced by wide Americans on a daily or biweekly

> schedule - now there's a use for the garlic oil -- dilute in olive oil and

> drizzle on pizza.

Going way, way, Wh-a-y(!) off topic here - but just have to add this:

We have a *genuine* Italian Pizza Parlor just down the road - run by an

Italian family - that does not - repeat - *does not*! - have fresh garlic on

the premises! If you order a pizza you have to ask them to put garlic on it!

then they sprinkle it with garlic salt! How bad is that! I mean, come on,

Italian, pizza, no garlic??? - Geesh.. no wonder I get grumpy.....

LLx

[Guest guest]

It sure is. There is no place for garlic oil in aromatherapy, even in the

weirdest, most incompetent book written on AT, there is no place for

garlic. It's produced for the food industry.

Anya

~~~~~~~~~

You're right, it does NOT belong in the " perfume " part of the equation. And

what I was to be learning was what Dorothy explained. I totally understand

where you are coming from. But Like I knew essential oil was for anything

other than scent! I thought aromatherapy was just that...using aroma as a

therapeutic application!This is why I delved into aromatherapy. To

understand more. After being highly critical of aromatherapy myself, and

being strictly an herbalist at heart, yet enjoying scents...I found out

aromatherapy is so much more than scent alone!

I went to a talk of Mindy Greene's. This is what turned me around and made

me a little more receptive to the idea. I was quite impressed with her

talk. It gave me a different perspective of AT. This was more intriquing

and in fact fascinating. It isn't just about scent although scent is very

important, it is the study of essential oils and applications of, many of

which are aromatic in nature. But other applications do apply. The

external use in message oils, flavors and so on.

It is also about the actual essential oil and applications of. When you

think about it, it is all so very connected. Flavor, scent, the whole

thing.

Garlic is most definately one not to be used in an aromatic application!

But don't throw the baby out witht the bath water. It is very valueable in

other applications. Like I said, I really had to bite my tongue and keep an

open mind, but I was totally put out! My first reaction was the same as

your's! Too funny!

You should see my lab notes.

Top: Incredibly FOUL and just wrong

Middle: Stinks and is still wrong

Base: Stinks but doesn't make me cry anymore, but I still think it's wrong.

Materia Medica....(And I spend more time here!)

It is a good school and I am the one to have to keep an open mind! Some

learning can only be through scent and taste. This is why we are scent all

the oils. To know what it is you are smelling, tasting, and so on!

I know some of your members here have went to the same school. They appear

to be very knowlegeable and have done well with their learning and do well

with their businesses!

Although I bet they don't use garlic in their aromatherapy scents!

It has just been an incredibly interesting journey for me. And I am not

even NEAR done!

But Like you I freaked! But I can assure you! It was a wonderful lesson to

learn hands on!

I was fighting understanding, but indeed. Flavor does have a lot to do with

smell and it does affect us!

Robin K

[Guest guest]

Seconded!! and still on a " learning curve " that's teaching me to think in

terms of " aroma " rather than *therapy*. Two very different arts.

Ask your AT " teacher " for the AT references on the use of garlic. I'd

love......especially if they are teaching from the UK....or claim to have a

UK

accreditation board certification.

LLx

~~~~~

LOL. I think everyone is freaking out a bit! Glad folks are very

concerned though!

Rest assured. I have incredibly good judgement. I am incredibly smart,

and I have worked with herbs my entire life. To want to learn about

aromatherapy and essential oils...that is a large jump for me. So you bet I

am going to check out the school.

I think when I mentioned the oil in connection to my aromatherapy " Kit "

without going into pages of detail as to what that aromatherapy kit

is...caused alarm.

The kit is a bunch of perfume sticks. 42 different oils ranging from

different walks. The Kit is to cause you to be aware of what oils are, what

they smell like, how they feel. how they taste, what happens, if they can be

tasted, if they can be ingested, if they can be used aromatically, they are

the beginning way of teaching a person how to train your senses and connect!

Bascially train all of your senses to evaluate the purity of oils. This

does not mean you pull out each oil and use it immediately in aroma. It

goes through stages. Garlic will NOT be in the aroma but in the smells

foul, but smells different when used as a flavor and so on. It is all part

of learning.

Okay, I assure you. This school is VERY good! Am I going to say the name?

No, because I have seen schools that are good and have positive aspects that

are ripped apart by folks who have never taken their courses and do not

know!

I do not recall mentioning anything about it being connected to the UK.

It is NOT used in an aromatic setting yet in other therapeutic uses. It is

NOT rubbed on the skin. Part of learning is experiencing.

My point of...THAT smell is JUST Wrong. Have a sense of humor folks. Good

Lord!

YES, it was in a kit, because it is an essential oil used in a different

manner than as an aromatic scent. It is still useful.

This school goes beynd the teaching of just aroma...they get into other

aspects of the essential oil itself.

NO, it is NOT used in aromatherapy in terms of diffusion therapy.

Does this help explain and set some minds at ease?

Robin K

[Guest guest]

On Feb 23, 2006, at 2:47 PM, Liz wrote:

> On 23/02/06, Anya <mccoy@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi Robin

> >

> > It sure is. There is no place for garlic oil in aromatherapy,

> even in the

> > weirdest, most incompetent book written on AT, there is no place

> for garlic.

> > It's produced for the food industry.

> >

> >Actually, that is not true. Garlic does have a place in

> therapeutic Aromatherapy. It is highly antibacterial and

> antifungal due to the allicin content. Great for yeast infections,

> diluted of course;) There is a whole host of ailments that garlic

> could be used for, as far as Aromatherapy goes. the dosage is 5-10

> drops 3x day with meals, or 3 drops diluted on the skin.

MJ

[Guest guest]

> From: Howell <mile855@...>

> Reply-

> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:16:48 -0800

>

> Subject: Re: Least favorite scent...*

>

> On Feb 23, 2006, at 2:47 PM, Liz wrote:

>

>> On 23/02/06, Anya <mccoy@...> wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>> Hi Robin

>>>

>>> It sure is. There is no place for garlic oil in aromatherapy,

>> even in the

>>> weirdest, most incompetent book written on AT, there is no place

>> for garlic.

>>> It's produced for the food industry.

>>>

>>> Actually, that is not true. Garlic does have a place in

>> therapeutic Aromatherapy. It is highly antibacterial and

>> antifungal due to the allicin content. Great for yeast infections,

>> diluted of course;) There is a whole host of ailments that garlic

>> could be used for, as far as Aromatherapy goes. the dosage is 5-10

>> drops 3x day with meals, or 3 drops diluted on the skin.

>

> MJ

>

MJ,

Thank you so much for pointing out the antibacterial/antifungal effects of

Garlic oil due to the allicin content. Allicin is supposed to act like a

low dose penicillin. Only problem, heat destroys it. So applying w/o heat is

critical.

Dorothy

Dorothy McCall, Cert. Aroma.

Kingsbury Fragrances

The Royal York

3955 Bigelow Blvd. Ste. 907

Pittsburgh, PA. 15213

(412) 687-2720

www.kingsburyfragrances.com

" Vibrating aromatic threads speak of the Divine through tapestries of scent "

[Guest guest]

> >It may have a use with oregano and marjoram to produce an ambient >

> room fragrance for those (like me!) who love fresh cooked pizza,

>

> Pizzatherapy, widely practiced by wide Americans on a daily or

> biweekly schedule - now there's a use for the garlic oil -- dilute

> in olive oil and drizzle on pizza.

Rather than gently swishing the bottle to combine the ingredients

better, in this case it actually helps to toss the bottle up in the

air and spin it around.

Try dabbing a little behind your ears, and I can hear the conversation

with someone who gets a whiff:

" Natural? " " No, DiGiorno! "

[Guest guest]

(topposting edited)

Hi!

May I join in your discussion on iron-free patchouly oil? If you cannot find

an iron-free patchouly, you could actually do it yourself. The process is

called tartration - the sequestration of traces of iron in Patchouly oil using

tartaric acid to prevent discoloration if the oil is blended with essential oil

containing phenolic compounds. Contamination with iron usually arises from

storage in a rusty drum.

How do you do this? Add tartaric acid in your patchouly oil, and let it sit

for a couple of minutes and filter with a filter paper. This is what the

suppliers do in their production area. It should not affect the smell of the

oils as tartaric acid is an inert material.

Hope this info helps...

phine

[Guest guest]

At 05:47 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

> >

> > Many hate patchouli. Try to find some iron-free aged patchouli. It's much

> > softer.

>

>

>Iron-free? Where would I get that?

Hi Liz:

I need to find my notes, but it's a geographic and cultural thing, first.

In some areas like Sumatra, they distill in iron pots, which colors and

affects the oil negatively, in many's opinion.

Here's some good info on it:

http://www.auroma.com/articles/aromatherapy/A+Profile+of+Patchouli%85/7

Look for Indonesian, some fine stuff comes from there. I also think some

sell aged patchouli, which is much mellower. patchouli absolute is soft and

lovely. Comes from India.

>Ask your AT " teacher " for the AT references on the use of garlic. I'd love

> > if you email me privately with the name of the school. I have some good ol'

> > aromatherapists who'd love to find out, also ;-)

>

>......especially if they are teaching from the UK....or claim to have a UK

>accreditation board certification.

Note everyone: Liz is a big muckety-muck in UK AT circles. I'll respond to

MJ's post here, too, from my non-muckety-muck but mucho-experience

perspective: aromatherapy is supposed to be the use of *pleasant* aromas to

elicit physical or phychological change for the better. I'm sure that in

the free-wheeling world of AT there are some who feel they can incorporate

garlic oil into the palette of oils because, well, just because it's there,

and it's anti-bacterial. But why?

Why, when so many pleasant-smelling oils do the same job, maybe even

better? Garlic, the herb, or garlic, the oil, seems more in the realm of

herbalism than aromatherapy. In the past decade or so, I've seen the number

of oils (most untested!) used by over-eager aromatherapist go up

dramatically. Seems if it can be distilled, they'll use it. That's

irresponsible, IMO. Garlic isn't irresponsible, but it is not aromatherapy,

in fact, can do perceptual harm to the field when someone gets, let's say,

a vaginal suppository of it for a yeast infection, or takes it internally,

and a friend says " Phew! you stink of garlic " and they reply they've had an

aromatherapy treatment.

Pizzatherapy, perhaps, but not AT. I still would love to know what school

is teaching that, it shouldn't be a secret, we all need a good laugh ;-)

On the lines of pizzatherapy, I'll put oregano oil up against garlic any

day in the bug-bashing contest.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

[Guest guest]

>

> <snip>

>

> LOL. I think everyone is freaking out a bit! Glad folks are very

> concerned though!

No one is *freaking out* Robin, just surprised at the inclusion of Garlic in

an AT course.

I think when I mentioned the oil in connection to my aromatherapy " Kit "

> without going into pages of detail as to what that aromatherapy kit

> is...caused alarm.

Most aromatherapy *kits* I've come across contain between 20/40 oils ranging

in size from 2mil to 10mil. Therefore I imagined you having a sizable amount

of Garlic rather than a scent strip.

<snip>

....Bascially train all of your senses to evaluate the purity of oils. This

does not mean you pull out each oil and use it immediately in aroma. It

goes through stages. Garlic will NOT be in the aroma but in the smells

foul, but smells different when used as a flavor and so on. It is all part

of learning.

Understood. Thank you for explaining

Okay, I assure you. This school is VERY good! Am I going to say the name?

No, because I have seen schools that are good and have positive aspects that

are ripped apart by folks who have never taken their courses and do not

know!

I'm sorry you feel so defensive - it was never my intent to rubbish (with or

without knowledge of the course content) the school you have chosen. I come

from a UK background in aromatherapy where we have struggled against

inadequate training for years, but to a large extent, have now come together

in preparation for Regulation of Aromatherapy. I take a keen interest in any

course that differs in content. The initial reading of your first mail gave

me the impression your school was including the use of garlic in mainstream

AT - that is, inhalation, massage, creams, lotions and potions (but not

internal ).

I do not recall mentioning anything about it being connected to the UK.

No, you didn't, and my response to Anya's mail was tongue in cheek, but

having said that, there have been cases where institutions have claimed

allegiance where none existed. Courses have been sold under false pretences

and I was simply keen to ensure a fellow list member was not being cheated.

I was concerned for you.

It is NOT used in an aromatic setting yet in other therapeutic uses. It is

NOT rubbed on the skin. Part of learning is experiencing.

Indeed it is - and I trust you have a break down of the oils constituents to

enable comparison between the oil and whole herb?

My point of...THAT smell is JUST Wrong. Have a sense of humor folks. Good

Lord!

This takes me back to the point of misunderstanding - I honestly thought you

had a whole bottle of the stuff and were expected to use it in a traditional

AT setting for case studies! And as for humor - the discussion on my garlic

fly spray took place last year and I reintroduced it to lighten the topic.

YES, it was in a kit, because it is an essential oil used in a different

manner than as an aromatic scent. It is still useful.

Whole garlic IS useful, very useful - and very tasty But the oil is

produced for the food flavoring industry. Its constituents will not be the

same as the whole herb and we cannot assume that it will have the same

qualities. To use it in the way your school has - as a part of aroma

categorisation - is admirable in teaching smell appreciation/differences,

and if that had been understood from the start then maybe you would not have

felt so inundated ...which I'm sure was not intended by anyone, least of

all myself or Anya - and after all, we have all learned about the use of

garlic - from fly spray to ambient fragrancing for business promotion - so

that must be a good thing?

LLx

[Guest guest]

Most aromatherapy *kits* I've come across contain between 20/40 oils ranging

in size from 2mil to 10mil. Therefore I imagined you having a sizable amount

of Garlic rather than a scent strip.

Liz

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes in fact you are right. It is a small sample, but you are to use the

scent strips.

So some of the oils I'll be able to use absolutely! Already am. But I am

familar with the ones I use.

RobinK

[Guest guest]

At 03:46 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote:

>(topposting edited)

>

>Hi!

>

> May I join in your discussion on iron-free patchouly oil? If you

> cannot find an iron-free patchouly, you could actually do it

> yourself. The process is called tartration - the sequestration of traces

> of iron in Patchouly oil using tartaric acid to prevent discoloration if

> the oil is blended with essential oil containing phenolic

> compounds. Contamination with iron usually arises from storage in a

> rusty drum.

>

> How do you do this? Add tartaric acid in your patchouly oil, and let

> it sit for a couple of minutes and filter with a filter paper. This is

> what the suppliers do in their production area. It should not affect the

> smell of the oils as tartaric acid is an inert material.

>

> Hope this info helps...

This is a great tip, phine. I know that many will want an idea of the

amount of tartaric acid you add to a certain amount of patchouli. Here's a

dumb question from me. Is tartaric acid the same as cream of tartar used in

baking and cleaning?

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery