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I recently had a massage with the above mix.I tried to make up some my

self w/ alcohol but the grapefruit dissipates really fast being that

it's as top note. Any ideas as to a fixative that won't take away from

the nice freash scent.

Thanks Al

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>

> I recently had a massage with the above mix.I tried to make up some my

> self w/ alcohol but the grapefruit dissipates really fast being that

> it's as top note. Any ideas as to a fixative that won't take away from

> the nice freash scent.

> Thanks Al

Hi Al,

You sound like you*re from the Mid Ohio Valley!

Clary sage (3 drops to 20 drops of your mixture) would be a decent

answer, but you wouldn*t like it. Of course cédrat would be the ideal

fixative, because it*s a citrus heart/base note but not available as

yet. I would add 3 drops of glycerin to 20 drops of your mixture. Or

if you*re adventuresome try to add one drop frankincense and 4 drops

bigarade to 20 drops of your mixture. Better yet, wait until someone

like Ayala Sender responds.

n

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At 02:40 PM 2/22/2006, you wrote:

>I recently had a massage with the above mix.I tried to make up some my

>self w/ alcohol but the grapefruit dissipates really fast being that

>it's as top note. Any ideas as to a fixative that won't take away from

>the nice freash scent.

OK, Al, I'm confused. You got a massage with an alcohol-based blend?

Alcohol " rubs " are sometimes given to patients in hospitals when they need

a bit of a rubifacient and cleansing procedure, but I think you should put

the aromatics in an oil base for a massage. Half your fixative problem

would be solved there. patchouli is a marvelous fixative for lavender, use

a 1:3 ratio, then as much grapefruit as your heart desires.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

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>

>

> The Mid ohio Valley? Did my accent give me up? But seriously, I don't

> get it. Also cédrat? What's that?

> Thanks for the reply I'll try it.

> al

>

Al, it was just a first impression with no offense. There are photos

of cédrat (citron) in the photos section of the group and many earlier

posts on cédrat.

n

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> >

> I tried to make up some my

> > self w/ alcohol but the grapefruit dissipates really fast being that

> > it's as top note. Any ideas as to a fixative that won't take away from

> > the nice freash scent.

> > Thanks Al

>

>

> Hi Al,

>

>

> Clary sage (3 drops to 20 drops of your mixture) would be a decent

> answer, but you wouldn*t like it. Of course cédrat would be the ideal

> fixative, because it*s a citrus heart/base note but not available as

> yet.

So, cédrat is not only amazingly good smelling but also a heart/base

note! What a shame that it is so close to impossible sourcing it... I

have petitgrain cedrat and it's very special. My favourite petitgrain

by the way.

> Better yet, wait until someone

> like Ayala Sender responds.

>

> n

Thanks for the invitation to respond, n, I am very falttered...

And now feel obliged to share my grapefruit and lavender experiences.

If this is a blend of both, and you really want to keep it as simple

as possible - use benzoin as a fixative. It will sweeten it only a

tiny bit, while keeping the sheer quality of the essential oils.

Copaiba balsam is another gentle vanillic choice of fixation.

Sandalwood can be used as well - but in really low ratio, as it can

flatten the brightness of the other oils. Olibanum, as n

suggested, also has brightness that is rather rare for base notes.

Just don't use too much of any base note if you want to keep the scent

dominated by these oils.

It will still be rather fleeting though, even after adding the

fixative, and it's recommended to use a heart note to bridge the gap

between the base and the heart. To deepen the grapefruit experience -

you may add some yuzu, which is a citrus heart note, and very

grapefruity (though sweeter); Unfortunately, there is no clean-cut

grapefruit heart or base note (the closest is yuzu in my opinion).

To deepen the lavender essential oil you can add lavender absolute.

Other suggestions that will change the character of your blend more

dramatically (making it more complex and cologne/perfume like, while

still anchoring it in the lavender and grapefruit theme):

Top notes:

Rosewood, ho wood and ho leaf - can extend the lavender note and add

more sheer floralness to the perfume

Other citrusy sweet notes - use different types of grapefruit (white

and pink) to add more depth; Tangerine or clementine are mouthwatering

sweet and very complementary to grapefruit; Mandarin and bitter orange

are good too. Lemon notes work really well with lavender too in my

opinion.

Heart notes:

- litsea cubeba, lemon myrtle, melissa (lemon balm), lemongrass or

lemon verbena - these will all add a tart, leafy lemony sweetness and

prolong the life of the scent

- Orange blossom absolute - a powerful, sweeter than neroli version of

the orange flower scent. It's gorgeous and has a lasting power and is

very cheerful and uplifting while have good fixative qualities.

Adding this floral absolute will make the blend more complex and

perfumey - and also wroks really well in lighter cologne type scents.

- Orris root - adds softness to lavender, and also has fixative power.

I love it with lavender!

Base notes:

- Lavender concerete (this is an almost mossy lavender, feels like

crushed leaves and petals ground together into a paste, very rich,

warm, aromatic and grass like)

- Oakmoss will turn this into more a fougere composition - rich and

traditionally masculine; it will dramatically increase longevity.

Best of luck,

Ayala Sender, Perfumer

Ayala Moriel Parfums

http://www.ayalamoriel.com/

Signature Perfume ~ Perfumed Jewelry ~ Fragrance Consultant Online

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>

>

> So, cédrat is not only amazingly good smelling but also a heart/base

> note! What a shame that it is so close to impossible sourcing it...

I never said cédrat smelled nice, it*s peculiar and unique and worth

exploring. It has a bigarade/waxy/incense type of smell that seems to

cling and last. In fact one day I hated it and had to leave the house

for a long while after taking a shower and changing my cloths, it

became overwhelming and I believe I was literally intoxicated from

working for too many hours with it tincturing and extracting the oil

and cooking it for candying. I believe the same thing would have

happened with many other ingredients. The smell of cédrat on its own

makes me become restless.

My search this far is showing that there are no cédrat orchards, but

only a few trees here and there on different farms. The few orchards

in Corsica are of a different type and are jealously guarded.

In English in the 1600s this fruit was called the Italian way cedra

then it became cédrat because it was thus called in the French

formulas. I wonder why and when they started calling it citron which

is the word for lemon in French.

The blend I recently made with the tincture and that I dedicated to

King and ended up calling it Cédrose developed into something

ancient and nice:

cédrat tincture, rose otto, aged spikenard, and a trace of ambergris,

civet, frankincense, myrrh(opoponax) and cypress. The only annoying

thing about blending is that you have to wait at least two weeks in

order to get a good reading of the result.

n

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> I never said cédrat smelled nice, it*s peculiar and unique and worth

> exploring. It has a bigarade/waxy/incense type of smell that seems to

> cling and last.

You didn't say it smells nice, but I did LOL!

It's a very special and unique aroma in my opinion. It has a strange

role in one of the Jewish holidays, to the point of being

fetishized... In Sukkot (the harvest holiday in the fall, 15 days

after the New Year starts), the citron fruit is one of 4 species that

are present throughout the 7 day holiday:

1) " Arava " - willow branches; has no scent and no flavour; The leaves

symbolize the eyes.

2) " Hadas " - myrtle; it has has scent but no flavour; The branches

symbolize hands with fingers.

3) " Lulav " - an unopened palm leaf, tied with strings to maintain it's

shape; it has flavour (the sweet dates) but no scent; Symbolizes the

spine.

4) " Etrog " - Citron; It has both scent and taste, and is therefore the

most blessed of all the 4 species; It symbolizes the heart.

In most Jewish communities (but esepcially in Europe), they use a

citron that has a little " nipple " much like a lemon, and that has to

have a perfect shape with no distrubance to their shape... They were

highly prized for their scent's healing powers and were very

expensive. The Yemenite, on the other hand, use a different species of

citron that does not have a " nipple " at all, and has a strange wrinkly

peel (much like kaffir lime). It is also bigger than the other citron.

> In fact one day I hated it and had to leave the house

> for a long while after taking a shower and changing my cloths, it

> became overwhelming and I believe I was literally intoxicated from

> working for too many hours with it tincturing and extracting the oil

> and cooking it for candying. I believe the same thing would have

> happened with many other ingredients.

It will happen with an excess of any scent I believe. That's why it's

so important to take breaks when working with scents.

I would love to make a tincture of citron myself. It seems to be the

only way of getting this essence these days... Maybe next time when I

am in Israel in the Fall I will be able to do that. I am dying to have

a pomelo essential oil or tincture as well... I have all kinds of

tincturing plans for Israel for this Spring when I will be there and

all the flowers will be blooming too...

> The smell of cédrat on its own makes me become restless.

It must be a stimulant, like most citruses!!!

> The blend I recently made with the tincture and that I dedicated to

> King and ended up calling it Cédrose developed into something

> ancient and nice:

> cédrat tincture, rose otto, aged spikenard, and a trace of ambergris,

> civet, frankincense, myrrh(opoponax) and cypress. The only annoying

> thing about blending is that you have to wait at least two weeks in

> order to get a good reading of the result.

>

> n

This sounds absolutely divine! Wait patiently for two weeks and don't

add anything ;) I am very curious to hear about it!!!

Please tell us about it when it's ready...

Best,

Ayala Sender - Perfumer

Ayala Moriel Parfums

Signature Perfumes ~ Perfumed Jewelry ~ Fragrance Consultant Online

http://www.AyalaMoriel.com

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> >

>

> >

> > So, cédrat is not only amazingly good smelling but also a heart/base

> > note! What a shame that it is so close to impossible sourcing it...

>

i just found this link

http://www.ripetoyou.com/Availability.aspx#

to a commercial orchard in california that

carries 2 types of citron.

the fruit is available sept thru dec.

and i'm looking forward to buying some then!

-linda

The Perfumer's Apprentice

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>

>

> 4) " Etrog " - Citron; It has both scent and taste, and is therefore the

> most blessed of all the 4 species; It symbolizes the heart.

> In most Jewish communities (but esepcially in Europe), they use a

> citron that has a little " nipple " much like a lemon, and that has to

> have a perfect shape with no distrubance to their shape... They were

> highly prized for their scent's healing powers and were very

> expensive. The Yemenite, on the other hand, use a different species of

> citron that does not have a " nipple " at all, and has a strange wrinkly

> peel (much like kaffir lime). It is also bigger than the other citron.

Hi,

I added 4 more photos to the existing cédrat photo file in order to

show the hidden facets of this incredible fruit including the

*nipple*. I had held back on posting the nippled photo in fear that

Anya would get in trouble with and shut her group down or maybe

Paypal freeze her account. I know my Etrog is no match to Janet

, but gee half a million $$ was a lot of money for her to pay

in fines for showing inadvertently just one nipple. Thanks for the

lesson in theology, always valuable for the curious that I am.

n

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> From: " s " <lindaan@...>

> Reply-

> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:50:16 -0000

>

> Subject: Re: grapefruit anf lavender

>

>

>>>

>>

>>>

>>> So, cédrat is not only amazingly good smelling but also a heart/base

>>> note! What a shame that it is so close to impossible sourcing it...

>>

>

> i just found this link

> http://www.ripetoyou.com/Availability.aspx#

> to a commercial orchard in california that

> carries 2 types of citron.

> the fruit is available sept thru dec.

> and i'm looking forward to buying some then!

>

> -linda

> The Perfumer's Apprentice

>

>

Thanks ,

That site is amazing!

Dorothy

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