Re: Linked ears

[Guest guest]

Tamson,

When you are training two sites in relation to each other, or want to compare results from two sites, you don't want the signal affected by a biased reference. Usually then you use linked ears, although for prefrontal balance training you would use Cz as the reference for both channels.

Foxx

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of foxmavenSent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:13 PM Subject: Linked earsI know that using the jumper to link the references adds the two sides together and eliminates the differences that may be picked up (from the temporal lobes). What I'm not clear about (or cannot remember) is why that would be preferred or necessary in some protocols and not in others. I am still not able to answer for myself the reason to link or not link the references. Thanks.Tamson

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Foxx! I know Pete taught that in

the workshop, but somehow that one did not make it into my notes (along with

other things, I’m sure!). It’s good to have that cleared up again. J

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Foxx

Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006

11:37 AM

Subject: RE: Linked

ears

Tamson,

When you are training two sites in relation

to each other, or want to compare results from two sites, you don't want the

signal affected by a biased reference. Usually then you use linked ears,

although for prefrontal balance training you would use Cz as the reference for

both channels.

Foxx

Linked

ears

I know that using the jumper

to link the references adds the two sides

together and eliminates the differences that may

be picked up (from the

temporal lobes). What I'm not clear about

(or cannot remember) is why

that would be preferred or necessary in some

protocols and not in

others. I am still not able to answer for myself

the reason to link or

not link the references.

Thanks.

Tamson

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[Guest guest]

Betsy,

When you do an assessment, you are measuring channel 1 against one reference and

channel 2 against another reference. We use " inert " references, like the

earlobes or the mastoid, because we want the two references to be equal, so

whatever difference we see in the signals is reflecting what is happening at the

Active site.

Of course we know that we're wrong in assuming that those sites are inert.

They pick up signals from the activity that " leaks " out through the skull from

the parts of the brain closest to them (i.e. the temporal). Hence, when we use

A1 and A2 or M1 and M2 as references, we are actually comparing the actives

against pale representations of the temporal lobes.

The temporals, because they are furthest apart of the homologous/mirror sites we

look at, because they have very different functions and because they are very

susceptible to head injuries, often have very different signals.

SO, if we have, let's say, F3 signal of 20u and F4 signal of 20u, and A1 is

picking up 2u from the left temporals while A2 is picking up 4u from the right

temporals, when we look at the signals in the assessment for F3 (20-2=18) and F4

(20-4=16), we could be fooled into thinking that there is a difference between

the two frontal sites.

If, on the other hand, we use jumper to combine the two references, then both F3

and F4 are being compared against the combined signal, which we KNOW is exactly

the same for both sides, and any differences we see are surely related to what

is happening at the active site.

As for why I suggested you use A1 or M1 as a reference for Fz in a two channel

protocol...I didn't. I suggested that you use a linked ear reference, so Fz

would be reading the midline, not toward either side of the brain.

Hope this helps.

Pete

>

> From: " Strawderman " <straw856@...>

> Date: 2006/05/30 Tue AM 07:51:10 EDT

> " Van Deusen " <pvdtlc@...>

> Subject: Linked ears

>

I'm still not sure I understand exactly what is accomplished by linking ears. I

know you recommend that we link ears when conducting assessments. Would you

please explain this further?

Also, I don't understand why you suggested that I reference FZ to A1, rather

than referencing both Fp2 and FZ to A2. Would you please help me understand

this, too?

[Guest guest]

Is there a risk that all training turns into temporal training with

this approach?

>

> Betsy,

>

> When you do an assessment, you are measuring channel 1 against one

reference and channel 2 against another reference. We use " inert "

references, like the earlobes or the mastoid, because we want the two

references to be equal, so whatever difference we see in the signals

is reflecting what is happening at the Active site.

>

> Of course we know that we're wrong in assuming that those sites

are inert. They pick up signals from the activity that " leaks " out

through the skull from the parts of the brain closest to them (i.e.

the temporal). Hence, when we use A1 and A2 or M1 and M2 as

references, we are actually comparing the actives against pale

representations of the temporal lobes.

>

> The temporals, because they are furthest apart of the

homologous/mirror sites we look at, because they have very different

functions and because they are very susceptible to head injuries,

often have very different signals.

>

> SO, if we have, let's say, F3 signal of 20u and F4 signal of 20u,

and A1 is picking up 2u from the left temporals while A2 is picking

up 4u from the right temporals, when we look at the signals in the

assessment for F3 (20-2=18) and F4 (20-4=16), we could be fooled into

thinking that there is a difference between the two frontal sites.

>

> If, on the other hand, we use jumper to combine the two references,

then both F3 and F4 are being compared against the combined signal,

which we KNOW is exactly the same for both sides, and any differences

we see are surely related to what is happening at the active site.

>

> As for why I suggested you use A1 or M1 as a reference for Fz in a

two channel protocol...I didn't. I suggested that you use a linked

ear reference, so Fz would be reading the midline, not toward either

side of the brain.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Pete

>

>

> >

> > From: " Strawderman " <straw856@...>

> > Date: 2006/05/30 Tue AM 07:51:10 EDT

> > " Van Deusen " <pvdtlc@...>

> > Subject: Linked ears

> >

> I'm still not sure I understand exactly what is accomplished by

linking ears. I know you recommend that we link ears when conducting

assessments. Would you please explain this further?

>

> Also, I don't understand why you suggested that I reference FZ to

A1, rather than referencing both Fp2 and FZ to A2. Would you please

help me understand this, too?

>

[Guest guest]

Morena,I'm sorrry.  I've never used the J & J, though I know they decided to use electrode connectors different from the rest of the known universe.  Looking on their website, I see that you can purchase a cable called the TP-60 for a mere $75/channel    (http://www.jjengineering.com/C2cables.htm ) that will you use regular electrodes. Then you could use regular jumpers (in fact you'd need to use several of them, since the adaptor has a ground for each channel.  You could do a 2-channel assessment with a jumper between CH1 and CH2 references, and you could either use two separate ground electrodes, or you could jumper the grounds with a second jumper.  Doing 4 channels will be a bit more complicated, since you'd have to jumper channels 1 and 3 and then jumper 2 and 4, then jumper the two jumpers (and do the same thing again for the grounds unless you wanted to place 4 ground electrodes.)

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:16 PM, morena <morena.ploner@...> wrote:

 

Hallo,

I want to do Tlc 4 Channel Assessment(or at least 2 CH) with Bioexplorer.The problem is, with the original electrodes of the J & J C2+ amplifier, that i have to use, I cannot use jumpers to link ears. Is there a way to link it and do the assessment correctly on command of the bioexplorer software?

friendly greetings, Morena