Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 I have a man 67 with an average peak alpha frequency around 8.4 ( also has frontal r/l reversal, increased theta beta, F/B beta reversal). I don’t see him clinically but in working with him, he seems a bit depressed, anxious, slow in calculations on task. One of the approaches I was considering was alpha up in the parietal leads. How long should the sessions be, typical 5/20, EC at least initially? Saint From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of A Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: Re: Re: Pre-motor T, Sorry, too late!! I called up " America's next top model " and you need to get to L.A. ASAP! Just to review: Pete noted that " I " was not clear, but gave a warning just in case. See original below. Interesting concept to use BF all day to let you know when you are out of the zone. You brought in an additional element to the conversation about HEG causing headaches?? That sure makes me wonder what the rest of your TLC assessment looked like! What was causing the headache? Or which brain wave was put out of kilter by HEG? Or, did it just make you " aware " of an already existing imbalance? Or, did it open a floodgate? or what? What does your TLC show? I'm very interested cause I would say that HEG has never " caused " one of my numerous styles of headache. But it will sometimes make me more sensitive and aware so I " notice " a tension headache more, but some Yoga seems to do the trick for that. But HEG " relieved " most other headaches I got quickly. I won't be able to make too many more comments on this subject soon ( did I hear a YEAH! from the peanut gallery? :-) ), cause the headaches are slipping into the past. I keep forgetting to take my Excedrin, and find I don't miss it. Even " scents " (perfumes and tobacco) which always used to get me are muting. I can even be nearer to news/magazine ink smell without too much trouble. I read a newspaper again for the first time in twenty years this morning without getting dizzy! Lets hope it lasts. No time to " ease up " yet! Too much to do! Of course, doing the EEG training based on the TLC is fully included in what has helped me so far, not just HEG. Amazing stuff. Have a great. Send your most recent TLC so we can have a look! ~ A Do Something Useful Re: Pre-motor Quite a long post. I managed to understand some points of it. Interesting nonetheless, but, well, too much over the top of my head. I know someone who has worn BF equipment all day with good results. He described it becomes like an extra sense; you hear EXACTLY when you go out of zone (EEG, GSR, HRV) or tense your muscles (EMG). With HEG I got headaches that eventually hurt so much I decided at some point I couldn't take it anymore. I don't quite understand what you mean by " initial contact " . It was not the first time I had trained HEG, more like the 150th session. Because Pete thought you were training only one site, I assumed he understood you correctly. Obviously he didn't. The way you describe doing your musical training, may work... however, I don't think that a system that works in physical training necessarily works the same on a brain. I've heard that with brain, play works. An enlightened brain works perfedtly. It can play " perfectly " , using players from all areas simultaneously. So the best thing might be to imagine that you're already enlightened and ease up. Btw, do not model me for this. T > > > You weren't clear in your post whether you were training prefrontal > or premotor. If prefrontal, at Fpz, then that's definitely too much. > In fact, training HEG 2 hours a day (when it is recommended for no > more than about 30 minutes every 3rd day or so) might suggest that you > already have WAY too much activity on the frontal midline already. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Saint, Well, since peak alpha frequency in the low 8's is indicative of senile dementia, I think getting him speeded back up would be priority number 1. You can do that with the alpha up protocol (I usually do it eyes-closed, but it certainly can be used eyes open), or, you can take it into account when designing windowed squashes to deal with the reversals. Instead of using 8-15 in your window (on the right side, if alpha's too low there), use 10-15 Hz. You can also simply train down 2-9 Hz and reward 10-14 or 10-15 Hz activity. All the symptoms you mention, plus things like word-finding and sleep, are likely to be improved by getting the alpha peak back up. Pete > > From: " St Lee " <stgeorgelee@...> > Date: 2006/05/09 Tue AM 09:07:02 EDT > < > > Subject: RE: alpha up > > I have a man 67 with an average peak alpha frequency around 8.4 ( also has > frontal r/l reversal, increased theta beta, F/B beta reversal). I don't see > him clinically but in working with him, he seems a bit depressed, anxious, > slow in calculations on task. One of the approaches I was considering was > alpha up in the parietal leads. How long should the sessions be, typical > 5/20, EC at least initially? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Pete, Thanks for your input. IN the alpha up protocol, I presume I would use posterior leads. IN the other windowed squashes or training down 2-9 ( his alpha looks more like it is 6-10, then 8-12- or perhaps 6.5-10.5), would you being doing that in the parietal leads as well? Saint From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Van Deusen Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:20 AM Subject: Re: RE: alpha up Saint, Well, since peak alpha frequency in the low 8's is indicative of senile dementia, I think getting him speeded back up would be priority number 1. You can do that with the alpha up protocol (I usually do it eyes-closed, but it certainly can be used eyes open), or, you can take it into account when designing windowed squashes to deal with the reversals. Instead of using 8-15 in your window (on the right side, if alpha's too low there), use 10-15 Hz. You can also simply train down 2-9 Hz and reward 10-14 or 10-15 Hz activity. All the symptoms you mention, plus things like word-finding and sleep, are likely to be improved by getting the alpha peak back up. Pete > > From: " St Lee " <stgeorgelee@...> > Date: 2006/05/09 Tue AM 09:07:02 EDT > < > > Subject: RE: alpha up > > I have a man 67 with an average peak alpha frequency around 8.4 ( also has > frontal r/l reversal, increased theta beta, F/B beta reversal). I don't see > him clinically but in working with him, he seems a bit depressed, anxious, > slow in calculations on task. One of the approaches I was considering was > alpha up in the parietal leads. How long should the sessions be, typical > 5/20, EC at least initially? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 In kids, you have to train where the brain is (e.g. adjust the frequency of SMR); in adults, train to where it SHOULD be. So regardless of how slow it is, train the 10-12 or 10-13 Hz activity up (though you may have to adjust thresholds to get him started.) Yes, I would always train alpha up at P4 or perhaps Pz or O1. Pete > > From: " St Lee " <stgeorgelee@...> > Date: 2006/05/09 Tue AM 10:37:18 EDT > < > > Subject: RE: RE: alpha up > > Thanks for your input. IN the alpha up protocol, I presume I would use > posterior leads. IN the other windowed squashes or training down 2-9 ( his > alpha looks more like it is 6-10, then 8-12- or perhaps 6.5-10.5), would you > being doing that in the parietal leads as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 I have a child of 11 years old with alpha peak frequencies around 8 Hz (seen on the histogram page). He has a normal intelligence, but lots of problems with language processing issues, learning issues and memory issues. The assessment shows (only) lots of slow wave activity everywhere and his brain doesn't activate yet. Pete, you wrote : " In kids, you have to train where the brain is (e.g. adjust the frequency of SMR); in adults, train to where it SHOULD be. " My question is : Can we also (gently) push up alpha PF in this child to improve his mentally functioning ? Or is it just a matter of a (late) natural maturing process, we have to wait for ? Diane (Belgium) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [mailto: ] Namens Van Deusen Verzonden: dinsdag 9 mei 2006 18:15 Aan: Onderwerp: RE: RE: alpha up In kids, you have to train where the brain is (e.g. adjust the frequency of SMR); in adults, train to where it SHOULD be. So regardless of how slow it is, train the 10-12 or 10-13 Hz activity up (though you may have to adjust thresholds to get him started.) Yes, I would always train alpha up at P4 or perhaps Pz or O1. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Pete, So, the alpha up and the other protocols you mentioned are all one channel or do you ever use two? Saint From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Van Deusen Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: alpha up In kids, you have to train where the brain is (e.g. adjust the frequency of SMR); in adults, train to where it SHOULD be. So regardless of how slow it is, train the 10-12 or 10-13 Hz activity up (though you may have to adjust thresholds to get him started.) Yes, I would always train alpha up at P4 or perhaps Pz or O1. Pete > > From: " St Lee " <stgeorgelee@...> > Date: 2006/05/09 Tue AM 10:37:18 EDT > < > > Subject: RE: RE: alpha up > > Thanks for your input. IN the alpha up protocol, I presume I would use > posterior leads. IN the other windowed squashes or training down 2-9 ( his > alpha looks more like it is 6-10, then 8-12- or perhaps 6.5-10.5), would you > being doing that in the parietal leads as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Windowed squashes are 2-channel. Coherence is 2-channel. I might use either or both of those to increase alpha or alpha peak (using the 10-13 Hz band definition). Pete > > From: " St Lee " <stgeorgelee@...> > Date: 2006/05/09 Tue PM 04:17:48 EDT > < > > Subject: RE: RE: alpha up > > So, the alpha up and the other protocols you mentioned are all one channel > or do you ever use two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Diane, I've never tried that, but it might be interesting to see if trying to speed up the alpha peak would help with other issues as well. From what you describe, I would say start in the parietals (maybe at P3 and T5) or even try squashing on both sides, using a bipolar montage on each (P3/T5 and P4/T6) to see if you can wake the brain up. We had a trainer at a recent conference who also used the Variance down design and had very nice responses with a child. Pete > > From: " Diane Monsieurs " <diane.monsieurs@...> > Date: 2006/05/09 Tue PM 01:32:14 EDT > < > > Subject: RE: RE: alpha up > > have a child of 11 years old with alpha peak frequencies around 8 Hz (seen on the histogram page). He has a normal intelligence, but lots of problems with language processing issues, learning issues and memory issues. The assessment shows (only) lots of slow wave activity everywhere and his brain doesn't activate yet. Pete, you wrote : " In kids, you have to train where the brain is (e.g. adjust the frequency of SMR); in adults, train to where it SHOULD be. " My question is : Can we also (gently) push up alpha PF in this child to improve his mentally functioning ? Or is it just a matter of a (late) natural maturing process, we have to wait for ? Diane (Belgium) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Pete, I have a 60 year old male client with a peak alpha of 7.8. I have modified the Alpha Up design to fit around his low peak alpha, however, the double threshold bars on the Alpha Peak Frequency Threshold are so close together they often disappear since his peak frequency does not have much variability. Is the double threshold necessary in this case? Rosemary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Rosemary, I'd just train down 2-9 and up 10-14--or train the ratio of high/low alpha up. With a peak that low, chances are he'll never get feedback if you use Alpha Up as it is intended. Pete > > From: " Rosemary Herron " <reherron@...> > Date: 2006/05/15 Mon PM 09:37:18 EDT > < > > Subject: Alpha Up > > Pete, > > I have a 60 year old male client with a peak alpha of 7.8. I have modified the Alpha Up design to fit around his low peak alpha, however, the double threshold bars on the Alpha Peak Frequency Threshold are so close together they often disappear since his peak frequency does not have much variability. Is the double threshold necessary in this case? > > Rosemary > Van Deusen http://www.brain-trainer.com 16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157 305/251-0337 or (cellular) 305/321-1595 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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