HEG

[Guest guest]

,

Try shifting your thinking from "HEG machine" to "HEG sensor." The sensors can run independently on dedicated systems (the pendant systems from Minder Labs) or on several of the different EEG amplifiers, depending on whether they have a connection on the hardware. For a price, you can have your older BrainMaster retrofitted to add HEG, but it's areound $450 for that, I think. The HEG signal is a slowly varying signal, so the feedback is generally less game-like than EEG. Bioexplorer has some HEG screenes, and Minder Labs has some stuff available for download to use with their products.

I use HEG a lot with my clients, and have used it a lot for myself, as well. I use both nir and pirHEG, but the criteria are not clear-cut for when to prefer one over the other.

--------- Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG

Hey guys,

I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks!

-- A

Do Something Useful

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the input. Decided to go with the Pendant + nIR just so I can "go a few more rounds" with Mr. Toomin on his forum about his definition of "intention" with some experiential knowledge on my part. And not being hard wired to the computer does sound like a big improvement. Order # 920 have you shipped it yet? I ordered it --moments-- ago!!! ;-)

-- A

Do Something Useful

Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG> > > Hey guys,> > I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks!> > -- A> Do Something Useful> > > >

[Guest guest]

Oh, and Pete...

I expect you don't have it on the top of your mind but I thought I'd let you know that if I get the Pendant+nIR quickly it will mean even more sessions to improve my TOVA before you have to put up with my whining later this month in the Level 2 & Practicum in Detroit !! Now there is some motivation! :-)

-- A

Do Something (like express shipping) Useful

Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG> > > Hey guys,> > I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks!> > -- A> Do Something Useful> > > >

[Guest guest]

A in Detroit!! Cool!

Rah

[Guest guest]

Yes, my post was insufficiently clear. Retrofitting is, in general, an expensive and clumsy way to go.

--------- Re: HEG > > > For a price, you can have your older BrainMaster retrofitted to add HEG, but > it's areound $450 for that, I think. The HEG signal is a slowly varying signal, > so the feedback is generally less game-like than EEG. Bioexplorer has some HEG > screenes, and Minder Labs has some stuff available for download to use with > their products. > > > > >

[Guest guest]

, We would like something on HEG included in the Australian course. That OK with you?

a

Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG> > > Hey guys,> > I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks!> > -- A> Do Something Useful> > > >

[Guest guest]

,

I've just looked at your (this below) message a second time. It's funny how we make buying decisions. The group probably knows more about my mind than they care to already but perhaps a few who are merchants will find value in it.

My first thought was "what is the cheapest way to implement HEG". Considered upgrades, etc. From your message, at first it didn't matter to me if I was near the computer or not, so "stand alone" was nice but "extra". So I ordered the Pendant nIR HEG.

I was looking at the PN site and saw their training videos so clicked in. The videos were of questionable quality production-wise but heavy in content and user friendliness. The production quality kind of makes me think that they might not want to come across as too "slick". "Content over Fluff" conflict. It worked for me. I'd trust them much more than some other presentations.

But, for when I saw the Pendant connection my mind reeled. How ugly. Got a slick and smooth State-of-the-Art instrument with this hokey adaptor. My mind said "I don't want that". I know it's kind of childish, but that's me. So, I went back to my budget, usefulness, and other considerations. Then the Pocket won hands down.

Thanks for the input. It made a big difference.

-- A

Do Something Useful

Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG

Hey guys,

I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks!

-- A

Do Something Useful

[Guest guest]

<P.S. notice the ~ in my signature now! Thanks! Looks much better.>

Very Nice!! :~)

~

Re: HEG

~

For $1,000 you can purchase the Pendant HEG , the Pocket is quite a bit more but you can do stand alone HEG with the Pocket which I like rather than being hooked to BE and the computer.

~

[Guest guest]

That is great! I just did my first BE HEG and I have only a very small idea of what I'm looking at. All I really know is the sound feedback should go up. The BE started real low, went to 80s, then 90s, then hovered 96-98 for a while then roller coaster down to 94. What a trip!

~ A

Do Something Useful

Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG>> >>> >>> > Hey guys,>> >>> > I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out >> there? Thanks!>> >>> > -- A>> > Do Something Useful>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>> ! GROUPS LINKS>>>> a.. Visit your group "" on the web.>>>> b..

[Guest guest]

A,

Does your design have a trend object? You might like that if it doesn't.

Rah

****************************************************************************************

That is great! I just did my first BE HEG and I have only a very small idea of what I'm looking at. All I really know is the sound feedback should go up. The BE started real low, went to 80s, then 90s, then hovered 96-98 for a while then roller coaster down to 94. What a trip!

~ A

Do Something Useful

[Guest guest]

: I recently did some training with Demos. Like Pete, he too thinks that HEG is very effective with those who have a lot of slow wave activity, but should not be used with those who have a lot of fast wave activity.

Welcome to the group!

~Betsy

Hello> > I"m new on this group ! )> > I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))> > What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring blood flow in th brain ?> > Thank you ))))> > HERAZ> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI > (514) 343 6532 + 45042> > > >

[Guest guest]

ON the subject of HEG, Hershel Toomin

tends to train fp1, fp2 and fz each for ten minutes.  I am wondering in someone

with an agitated depression, with alpha and beta frontal reversal (f4 beta 13.4

% and hibeta 11.9%), does it make sense to train at fp2 or even fz, or might

one train only at fp1 (or fp1, f3, and fp7)?

St. Lee

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Strawderman

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:13

AM

Subject: Re: HEG

: I

recently did some training with Demos. Like Pete, he too thinks that

HEG is very effective with those who have a lot of slow wave activity, but

should not be used with those who have a lot of fast wave activity.

Welcome to the group!

~Betsy

Hello

>

> I " m new on this group ! )

>

> I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))

>

> What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring

blood flow in th brain ?

>

> Thank you ))))

>

> HERAZ

> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/

> Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI

> (514) 343 6532 + 45042

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Saint~

I have found that training only FZ and or Fp1 can be a bit agitating if you don't do FP2 before Fp1. You might see some refuse to do Fp2 after Fz and Fp1 as it wires them a bit. Fp2 is more calming and Fp1 tends to be more wakening. The order I have found best is Fz Fp2 Fp1.

~

Hello> > I"m new on this group ! )> > I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))> > What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring blood flow in th brain ?> > Thank you ))))> > HERAZ> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI > (514) 343 6532 + 45042> > > >

[Guest guest]

Some time back there were posts on the Biofeedback list regarding a

level of beta/theta ratio that a couple practitioners used to ascertain

whether and where to train,

If you have Hershel's HEG and do not have his training site checklist

you might want to use that as well. It is available on his web site.

]

On May 23, 2006, at 9:45 AM, St Lee wrote:

>

> ON the subject of HEG, Hershel Toomin tends to train fp1, fp2 and fz

> each for ten minutes.  I am wondering in someone with an agitated

> depression, with alpha and beta frontal reversal (f4 beta 13.4 % and

> hibeta 11.9%), does it make sense to train at fp2 or even fz, or might

> one train only at fp1 (or fp1, f3, and fp7)?

>  

> St. Lee

>  

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

> Strawderman

> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:13 AM

>

> Subject: Re: HEG

>  

> :  I recently did some training with Demos.  Like Pete, he

> too thinks that HEG is very effective with those who have a lot of

> slow wave activity, but should not be used with those who have a lot

> of fast wave activity.

>  

> Welcome to the group!

>  

> ~Betsy

>> Hello

>> >

>> > I " m new on this group ! )

>> > 

>> >  I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))

>> > 

>> >  What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring

>> blood flow in th brain ?

>> > 

>> >  Thank you ))))

>> > 

>> > HERAZ

>> > http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ 

>> > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI

>> > (514) 343 6532 + 45042

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

,

This is an interesting finding. I thought Herschel recommended mixing up the sequence order at each training session?

Mark Darling

Hello> > I"m new on this group ! )> > I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))> > What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring blood flow in th brain ?> > Thank you ))))> > HERAZ> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI > (514) 343 6532 + 45042> > > >

[Guest guest]

Mark~

I'm not sure what Hershel recommends and I'm sure he knows what he is talking about, but....

It was several of us at our home trainers meetings who seemed to all find the same response with the kids we were training.

~~

Hello> > I"m new on this group ! )> > I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))> > What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring blood flow in th brain ?> > Thank you ))))> > HERAZ> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI > (514) 343 6532 + 45042> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi and Saint

I tried HEG at Fz Fp1 and Fp2 withmy 16 year old sond for 3 mins at

each site and h got a headache that lasted 12 hours and he was very

agitated and irritated with me and everyone. So 5 days later I tried

again at Fp1 Fp2 and Fz - 1 min at each site and he got a 'pain' on

his left forehead that lasted maybe 10 mins. He was mildly irritated.

As he was soon to taking exams I have disontinued the protocol and I

will wait untl h is calm and relaxed in the after exam period and try

again.In his frontal lobe he has his highest activity at 10-12 and and

then lots of theta and delta. He has difficulty organising and

motivating himself to study.

Trisha

[Guest guest]

Trisha~

Is this the first time your son has ever tried HEG? Some folks are very sensitive and get headaches in the beginning. 2 of my kids have used HEG with success but I cant do 10 minutes without a headache. I havent been motivated to work on getting used to it but Hershel will tell you to start out very slow. Since your son seems extremely sensitive you may want to start with just 1 minute at FZ and gradually progess from there, if he is even willing to try again, poor kid. You might want to contact Hershel and see if he has any suggestions.

~

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "trishacalver" <trishacalver@...> > Hi and Saint > > I tried HEG at Fz Fp1 and Fp2 withmy 16 year old sond for 3 mins at > each site and h got a headache that lasted 12 hours and he was very > agitated and irritated with me and everyone. So 5 days later I tried > again at Fp1 Fp2 and Fz - 1 min at each site and he got a 'pain' on > his left forehead that lasted maybe 10 mins. He was mildly irritated. > As he was soon to taking exams I have disontinued the protocol and I > will wait untl h is calm and relaxed in the after exam period and try > again.In his frontal lobe he has his highest activity at 10-12 and and > then lots of theta and delta. He has difficulty organising and > motivating himself to study. > > Trisha

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

,Problems like attention, impulse control, ability to stay on task are related to limitations in the prefrontal cortex (PFC)--the brain's executive center.  Physical calmness, control and ability to move with control are related to sensory motor cortex function. That's where the Theta/beta ratio is measured.  I would tend to doubt a ratio of 15--maybe double the highest I've seen, but I suppose it's possible  

ADHD is the population that brain training started with, so it's reasonable to assume that training could be effective in your case as it has in many others. However when I was actively working with that population, we did 40 sessions in 5 months, and we were done--if not, we stopped anyway.  But if a client simply wasn't responding in 20, we usually recommended stopping.

I would suggest that HEG is where you start.  For about $1500 with shipping you get BioExplorer software and a full set of hardware to do nIR HEG.  The day you get it, you can schedule to get online with one of us and install everything--and take you through your first training session.  Once you've done one session, you pretty much have the idea, so then it's just doing it.  There's no assessment required, you can do it with anyone, hook-up is about as hard as putting on a forehead sweat band, clean up is even easier, and you only have to train 2 times a week--maximum of 30 minutes each time!!  If you work at it, you improve the distribution system for blood in the executive center.  More blood means more oxygen and glucose, so neurons working in the PFC can get  more active and stay actiave longer in response to demands for better screening of distractions, focusing attention, controlling impulses and moods, organizing/planning, motivation, short-term memory, social inhibition, language output and a few other minor functions.

If you decide to add EEG, you can do that at any time for around $1000, because you'll already have and be comfortable with the BioExplorer software.  You just need to learn to find sites, place electrodes, evaluate signal quality and run various types of training protocols, and there is support all the way along.  But more than a few people find that, as their PFC gets into the game, the EEG training becomes less necessary.

If you'd like to set up a time to talk more specifically about any of this, please email me at pvdtlc@... and give me some scheduling options (I'm 3 hours LATER than US eastern time).  I'll get back to you choosing one.

Pete

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 678 224 5895

BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 2:40 PM, FRANK LATINO <flatino@...> wrote:

Does anyone know how this compares to training on the clear mind system? Will it help with ADHD systems, increasing focus especially with boring

tasks? increasing memorary. I would love to get my son off of medication and even some supplements but there's a noticiable improvement in school performance with the meds.

My older son has ADHD and after a year of training it helped somewhat but he still has inattention systems. Local practioner has brain core system and with that, it showed that my son has a theta/beta ratio of 15:1 when it should be a 3:1. I would like to continue the training and as we usually run out of out-of-pocket insurance $ as none of this is covered by insurance as it is in Eurpore. A home system would be great but its hard for me to assess and I can relate to previous post of do you do or spend the time to learn to do before, because when I talk to the Dr.s I don't really understand the Different brain waves and why they were focusing the training on the back of the brain instead of the pre-frontal cortex area which is primarily associated with ADHD.

I think its important to really understand what you are doing, because

doing it improperly can make systems worst or at best be totally

ineffective.