Re: training across midline

[Guest guest]

Don't recall having said this. Always a danger when one talks so much without

thinking.

What I tried to say was that a number of list members have reported negative

effects when squishing 2-5 Hz frontally across the midline. Usually some kind

of more aggressive or angry feelings. Since we know that the frontal lobes carry

an emotional valence in addition to their executive functions, it makes more

sense to me to stay on the left if training to activate.

The other issue is that in many windowed squashes, the frequencies I would train

left and right tend to be different: Left side, I would be leaving low beta and

beta (e.g. 12-18 Hz) in the window, while on the right side, I'd be inclined to

leave alpha/high alpha (depending on peak frequency) and low beta (e,g, 8-15 or

10-15 Hz) in the window.

However, training posteriorly to allow alpha to rise in a windowed squash, I

have no problem with P3/A1/g/P4/A2 or O1/A1/g/O2/A2 with linked ear references.

Likewise, I'm obviously comfortable with T3/A1/g/T4/A2 (L) squishes of 12-38,

15-38 or 23-38, depending on the client. And I've used the squash across the

midline a number of times with good effects.

Hope this clarifies a bit.

Thanks for the question.

Pete

>

> From: " St. Clair, MSW " <mastclair@...>

> Date: 2006/06/05 Mon PM 06:54:33 EDT

> < >

> Subject: training across midline

>

> Pete,

> You have suggested that " boys don't do well when training across the midline, "

and advised to keep our Squishes and Squashes to one side or the other.

Including midline sites is okay, but not both F3 and F4 for a 2 channel.

>

> Could you please expand upon this some more?

> Just boys? Men? Everyone?

> Does this apply to the T3///T4 linked ears, summed channels windowed squashes?

> Is it only toward the Front?

>

> Thanks...I know I'm not the only one who didn't get it the first time around!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete and everyone!

I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned before on

the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function difficulties,

extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking, and

depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous

times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright,

professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when

not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected

by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed

so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and

variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high

80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got

the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the

brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha

training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this

occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested

that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he

got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life -

extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just

tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the

midline - maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he

really needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's

willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere

emotionally. Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Guest guest]



I have had good experience with the group seggested sequence of fpz, then fp2, THEN fp1 when training HEG frontally. This seems to alert, calm, then add some "safe" emotional spark to the thinking. YMMV.

Must be tough when a 4yo has been out of work for "some time"!! Sorry, couldn't resist....

~ A

Do Something Useful

Re: training across midline

Hi Pete and everyone!I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned before on the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function difficulties, extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking, and depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright, professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high 80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life - extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the midline - maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he really needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere emotionally. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Guest guest]

,

Your ideas sound reasonable. I might also try squashing Fz/A1/g/F3/A1, then try

it on the right, to see if he has the same response.

Pete

>

> From: Tegan <etegan@...>

> Date: 2006/06/06 Tue AM 07:08:50 EDT

>

> Subject: Re: training across midline

>

> Hi Pete and everyone!

> I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned before

on the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function

difficulties, extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking,

and depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous

times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright,

professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when

not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected

by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed

so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and

variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high

80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got

the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the

brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha

training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this

occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested

that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he

got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life -

extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just

tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the

midline - maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he

really needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's

willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere

emotionally. Any other suggestions?

>

> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi and A

Thanks for your responses. I had tried HEG (Nir) initially and his sleep

problems resolved after one session!! No other results were obvious and I had

tried the sequence you mentioned A. I will try your suggestion Pete about

the one sided squash.

Do you have any suggestions for tasks to train him under? His organizational

deficits are really severe - he can't even file - doesn't know how to organize

material unless it is all set up and very obvious where things go - can't

organize tasks or what he wants to accomplish. Following instructions is very

difficult and he doesn't see patterns either socially or physically. Training

under task was very successful with the word finding and naming games at

f7a1gt5a1 - he is much better at finding words now.

Thanks for all of your help!

---- Van Deusen <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Your ideas sound reasonable. I might also try squashing Fz/A1/g/F3/A1, then

try it on the right, to see if he has the same response.

>

> Pete

>

> >

> > From: Tegan <etegan@...>

> > Date: 2006/06/06 Tue AM 07:08:50 EDT

> >

> > Subject: Re: training across midline

> >

> > Hi Pete and everyone!

> > I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned before

on the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function

difficulties, extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking,

and depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous

times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright,

professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when

not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected

by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed

so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and

variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high

80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got

the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the

brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha

training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this

occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested

that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he

got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life -

extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just

tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the

midline - maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he

really needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's

willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere

emotionally. Any other suggestions?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]



I have had GREAT success training nIR HEG especially at T5 & T6 for improved organization mentally. Both personal, household, reading comprehension ( Oh, this is JUST LIKE this other thing EXCEPT "small change" or "customization" ) the concept of "grouping" or thinking in a higher level of "abstraction", or just thinking "that BELONGS" there or "that DOESN'T BELONG" in a set of experiences, or data, or placement. i.e. a dirty plate "belongs" in the dishwasher, a G# belongs in an A major scale, etc.

Sorry to repeat myself but I think the value of HEGing the Ts is vastly under published.

~ A

Do Something Useful

p.s. Is it just me or did deliberately make it more difficult to delete the add-on garbage at the end of the messages??

Re: training across midline> > > > Hi Pete and everyone!> > I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned before on the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function difficulties, extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking, and depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright, professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high 80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life - extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the midline - maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he really needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere emotionally. Any other suggestions? > > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.> > > >

..

[Guest guest]

Why not try filing? Filing for time and accuracy. One point for each paper

correctly alphabetized, 5 points off for each error. How many can he score in 5

minutes, starting with one minute at a time and working up to doing the whole

five minutes in a stretch? Has to stay calm and relaxed throughout the task.

Pete

>

> From: Tegan <etegan@...>

> Date: 2006/06/07 Wed AM 07:11:33 EDT

>

> Subject: Re: Re: training across midline

>

> Hi and A

> Thanks for your responses. I had tried HEG (Nir) initially and his sleep

problems resolved after one session!! No other results were obvious and I had

tried the sequence you mentioned A. I will try your suggestion Pete about

the one sided squash.

>

> Do you have any suggestions for tasks to train him under? His organizational

deficits are really severe - he can't even file - doesn't know how to organize

material unless it is all set up and very obvious where things go - can't

organize tasks or what he wants to accomplish. Following instructions is very

difficult and he doesn't see patterns either socially or physically. Training

under task was very successful with the word finding and naming games at

f7a1gt5a1 - he is much better at finding words now.

>

> Thanks for all of your help!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete

Great Idea!! I can get my workshop materials filed and clean up my desk at the

same time!!! :-)

---- Van Deusen <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

> Why not try filing? Filing for time and accuracy. One point for each paper

correctly alphabetized, 5 points off for each error. How many can he score in 5

minutes, starting with one minute at a time and working up to doing the whole

five minutes in a stretch? Has to stay calm and relaxed throughout the task.

>

> Pete

>

> >

> > From: Tegan <etegan@...>

> > Date: 2006/06/07 Wed AM 07:11:33 EDT

> >

> > Subject: Re: Re: training across midline

> >

> > Hi and A

> > Thanks for your responses. I had tried HEG (Nir) initially and his sleep

problems resolved after one session!! No other results were obvious and I had

tried the sequence you mentioned A. I will try your suggestion Pete about

the one sided squash.

> >

> > Do you have any suggestions for tasks to train him under? His

organizational deficits are really severe - he can't even file - doesn't know

how to organize material unless it is all set up and very obvious where things

go - can't organize tasks or what he wants to accomplish. Following

instructions is very difficult and he doesn't see patterns either socially or

physically. Training under task was very successful with the word finding and

naming games at f7a1gt5a1 - he is much better at finding words now.

> >

> > Thanks for all of your help!

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi A

I have not had much success with nIR HEG - My clients can't seem to get the 10%

gain that Herschel says is important to success. I can't seem to get it myself

so I probably can't tell them how to do it although I do say what Herschel

suggested. Mayvbe I'll try again with your enthusiasm to support it! I haven't

tried using my PRoshi with the HEG which Chuck and others have said make the

gains go much better!

Thanks for your input!

---- A <PetePixxx@...> wrote:

> I have had GREAT success training nIR HEG especially at T5 & T6 for improved

organization mentally. Both personal, household, reading comprehension ( Oh,

this is JUST LIKE this other thing EXCEPT " small change " or " customization " )

the concept of " grouping " or thinking in a higher level of " abstraction " , or

just thinking " that BELONGS " there or " that DOESN'T BELONG " in a set of

experiences, or data, or placement. i.e. a dirty plate " belongs " in the

dishwasher, a G# belongs in an A major scale, etc.

>

> Sorry to repeat myself but I think the value of HEGing the Ts is vastly under

published.

>

> ~ A

> Do Something Useful

>

> p.s. Is it just me or did deliberately make it more difficult to delete

the add-on garbage at the end of the messages??

>

>

> Re: training across midline

> > >

> > > Hi Pete and everyone!

> > > I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned

before on the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function

difficulties, extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking,

and depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous

times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright,

professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when

not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected

by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed

so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and

variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high

80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got

the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the

brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha

training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this

occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested

that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he

got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life -

extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just

tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the midline

- maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he really

needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's

willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere

emotionally. Any other suggestions?

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> > >

> >

> >

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]



It's very possible that my enthusiasm is based on my own results, which in turn are based upon my personal assessment. I was very heavy delta, low peak alpha, and lots of high beta. Everyone that looked at the assessement pointed at it and yelled "Head Injury!!!", which I've had a lot of (biking, roller skating, etc).

The thing is, that even if BE says I'm flat training at T6 (for example) I still make NOTICEable improvements in "the real world". I expect that even if I just get a "peak" at some/any time during training that the brain is learning how to do it.

The weird thing, to me, is that most of the ability to affect either HEG or EEG I find related to my posture. That is, siting up straight, aligning my neck and back, balancing my head on my spine, and feeling "centered" based on my seat. Almost ALL of my training goes in the "desired" direction when relaxing into proper posture. Breathing relaxes, gets deeper, lots more oxygen, less tension. Again, this could strongly be just me, based on my problems. But because it is so consistent and repeatable I've got to wonder why it isn't even mentioned for others. It's like people think that the brain works completely independently of the body, breathing, etc. Oh well....

Good luck with your training. Hope you find something that works for you.

~ A

Do Something Useful

Re: training across midline> > > > > > Hi Pete and everyone!> > > I had an interesting experience this week with the client I mentioned before on the list (traumas at 4yo, severe cognitive and executive function difficulties, extreme anxiety and ruminative negative self referenced thinking, and depression) This client has been out of work for some time (fired numerous times and just unable to function due to his symptoms although is very bright, professional education). His anxiety and ruminative thinking had resolved when not under task, depression resolved, although obsessive thinking was unaffected by the long term training we have done. Since his anxiety and depression seemed so much better I tried a prefrontal squash (fp1a1gfp2a2) inhibiting 2-38 and variability to enhance his executive functioning. His amplitude was very high 80-100 mv and he was able to get it down very well (about 20 mv). When he got the amplitude down (a lot of it was delta - which he had in the back of the brain associated with anxiety, and hypervigilence - went down with alpha training in the parietals) - he felt extremely tense and anxious (he said this occurred when the amplitude went below 60 on the trend view) - when I suggested that he just stay with it for 30 seconds and see what happened, he said that he got the insight that this is exactly how he felt his entire working life - extremely anxious and tense as well as slowed mental functioning and just tolerating it. I am wondering, if this could be from training across the midline - maybe a right windowed squash and then try a left windowed squash - he really needs to correct his executive functioning in order to get a job and he's willing to tolerate the anxiety but it didn't seem to be getting him anwhere emotionally. Any other suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.> > >