Re: alpha and stress

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting this ---Very Good--

Dudley

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:39:10 -0500 " Duncan" <karenduncan@...> writes:

Found this on another list and thought it had some good info about alpha.

http://www.mentalfitness.dk/?download=Stress%20report%204.2.pdf

~

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the recent references.

Mark

alpha and stress

Found this on another list and thought it had some good info about alpha.

http://www.mentalfitness.dk/?download=Stress%20report%204.2.pdf

~

[Guest guest]

Informative article.

Is it really true though (+ alfa = - stress) ?

How much alfa does one need? Here Parietal EC alfa is two or more

times the amplitude of the other bands, Oz is 2.5 to 5 times(6-8Hz)

the others. Would more be better? Alfa up is something I've never

tried.

Rah

[Guest guest]

I should say I know people like to down train what is too high, but

you also say it should feel good!

>

> Informative article.

>

> Is it really true though (+ alfa = - stress) ?

>

[Guest guest]

in parietals you want the A/T ratios to be 1.5 or higher.

Re: alpha and stress

> Informative article.

>

> Is it really true though (+ alfa = - stress) ?

>

> How much alfa does one need? Here Parietal EC alfa is two or more

> times the amplitude of the other bands, Oz is 2.5 to 5 times(6-8Hz)

> the others. Would more be better? Alfa up is something I've never

> tried.

>

> Rah

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The articles have been wonderful, thanks to all for the great info!

Are these protocols pretty well established, or still evolving? I

question this because the EEG I had done supposedly showed extremely

low alpha, although I was never permitted to see scan or

interpretation myself. Additionally, I switched protocols as

recommended on Tuesday, spent all day yesterday glued to the couch -

NO energy. Could the switch be responsible? On other protocol, I had

suddenly begun to play the piano after letting it sit idle for 10

years, could not make myself play chopsticks yesterday. I know I

have too much going on to draw a line and say " cause and effect, "

but I would appreciate the insights of experienced people.

>

> in parietals you want the A/T ratios to be 1.5 or higher.

>

> Re: alpha and stress

>

>

> > Informative article.

> >

> > Is it really true though (+ alfa = - stress) ?

> >

> > How much alfa does one need? Here Parietal EC alfa is two or

more

> > times the amplitude of the other bands, Oz is 2.5 to 5 times(6-

8Hz)

> > the others. Would more be better? Alfa up is something I've

never

> > tried.

> >

> > Rah

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Rah,

Of course nothing is ever THAT simple in the brain. Low levels of alpha,

especially in the parietal and occipital areas (as wrote, alpha/theta

ratios below 1.5 with eyes closed is one good measure; alpha lower than beta

would be another) is pretty consistent with low levels of serotonin and therefor

a tendency toward anxiety and/or depression and sleep difficulties. Extremely

HIGH levels of eyes closed alpha, or high levels of eyes-open alpha (high

alpha/theta ratios) or slow alpha, with peak frequencies below 10 Hz can also be

problematic.

BUT, the ability to enter and leave a nice synchronous fast-enough alpha state

with eyes open or closed, especially in the back of the head, is consistent with

the ability to observe yourself in your environment, the ability to perform

routine tasks in auto-pilot, generally to minimize wasted energy and overall

operate with lower levels of stress.

Pete

>

> From: " deboRah " <wheelihan82@...>

> Date: 2006/03/09 Thu AM 08:54:46 EST

>

> Subject: Re: alpha and stress

>

>

[Guest guest]

This reminds me - There was an article or description of a training

for going into & out of an alfa state I think. If it wasn't alfa I

suppose it could be adapted for it. I'm looking through the archives,

but I don't remember if it was on this list or another, and don't know

the best key words. Does anyone remember this?

Rah

>

> " . . .

> BUT, the ability to enter and leave a nice synchronous fast-enough

alpha state with eyes open or closed, especially in the back of the

head, is consistent with the ability to observe yourself in your

environment, the ability to perform routine tasks in auto-pilot,

generally to minimize wasted energy and overall operate with lower

levels of stress. "

[Guest guest]

Peak Achievement Trainer, Jon Cowan's product. I would suggest there are plenty

of less costly and equally effective alternatives.

Pete

>

> From: " deboRah " <wheelihan82@...>

> Date: 2006/03/09 Thu PM 10:40:28 EST

>

> Subject: Re: alpha and stress

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear

A quick reply which I guess others will elaborate on. Pete advises that if you use a protocol that works stick with it unless you have a good reason to change it.I'm a little concerned unless you can find someone who can overseer your home training. I guess however you are in a situation where you have to do something in the absence of better alternatives.

Take care

Mark

Re: alpha and stress> > > > Informative article.> > > > Is it really true though (+ alfa = - stress) ?> > > > How much alfa does one need? Here Parietal EC alfa is two or more > > times the amplitude of the other bands, Oz is 2.5 to 5 times(6-8Hz) > > the others. Would more be better? Alfa up is something I've never > > tried.> > > > Rah> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Pete et al,, What has been your experience with 'extremely high' levels of

alpha? I have 46 year old female who explodes ec alpha, all across the back

especially. I'm talking consistent volume of 60 Mv. at Pz P4. She reports

sadness when it calms down following 1c squash. She also reports " stuckness " . I

have seen this before but not to this magnitude. My suspicion is that is where

she is 'hiding' her 'stuff' from a psychoanalytic standpoint. I really don't

have cause to suspect substance of any kind. She is apparently a 'good enough'

Mom, but a lousy wife and is extrememely unmotivated. What do you think?

Bill

Van Deusen <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

> Rah,

>

>Of course nothing is ever THAT simple in the brain.nbsp; Low levels of alpha,

especially in the parietal and occipital areas (as wrote, alpha/theta

ratios below 1.5 with eyes closed is one good measure; alpha lower than beta

would be another) is pretty consistent with low levels of serotonin and therefor

a tendency toward anxiety and/or depression and sleep difficulties.nbsp;

Extremely HIGH levels of eyes closed alpha, or high levels of eyes-open alpha

(high alpha/theta ratios) or slow alpha, with peak frequencies below 10 Hz can

also be problematic.

>

>BUT, the ability to enter and leave a nice synchronous fast-enough alpha state

with eyes open or closed, especially in the back of the head, is consistent with

the ability to observe yourself in your environment, the ability to perform

routine tasks in auto-pilot, generally to minimize wasted energy and overall

operate with lower levels of stress.

>

>Pete

>

>gt;

>gt; From: quot;deboRahquot; lt;wheelihan82@...;

>gt; Date: 2006/03/09 Thu AM 08:54:46 EST

>gt;

>gt; Subject: Re: alpha and stress

>gt;

>gt;

>

>  

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have done alpha-theta training for the past 3 years. One of the things I have noticed is that high alpha seems to relate to stress. This seemed counter-intuitive to me since we hear so much about "alpha" being indicative of relaxation. In instances where there is very high alpha and where the client does not experience crossover, I have had some success by not reinforcing alpha. Rather, I reinforce theta alone at various placements on the rear of the head. Typically I work at O1, but this is not always the case. Generally the sessions for these "resistant" clients last for 45 minutes to an hour. I have had clients do this for 20+ sessions before the theta crosses over the alpha, but I have never had a client fail to do this if I am persistent. Over time I find I can shorten the sessions to 30 minutes. To date I have used this procedure with about 30 clients.

What I find with these "high alpha" clients is that they demonstrate alpha that is 3 to 4 times the amplitude of theta in the beginning of training. From there several things might happen. The alpha drops significantly, down to about the average of theta. Over a number of sessions the theta will eventually cross over and remain consistently above the alpha. In almost all cases the alpha is elevated at the beginning of the session. With training it drops within about 10 to 20 minutes. Clients report a feeling of deep relaxation at this time.

Another issue is delta. Sometimes delta remains elevated and the client does experience crossover. The experience is more like sleep than a deep trance. Clients still find this useful and often report improvements in sleeping at night. I have never tried to inhibit delta in the rear of the head. It is my understanding that Penniston did not record delta so it was not an issue for him.

I hope that helps.

Mike

Re: alpha and stress

I don't know about numbers for delta and theta.I've heard delta should be at least 10%. Is this correct?How much is too much? I've only heard that it shouldn't go up at task (and maybe I've heard it should go down, don't remember).I've only heard of theta in relation to alfa, but if alfa is very high then naturally the A/T ratio would be high, and theta would appear too low. Is there a % guideline for theta?Rah>> Hi ,> > I'll throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth. I also had high amplitude> alpha in the rear of my head. I hesitated to train it down because it seemed> couter-intuitive. I will say that training alpha UP is NOT relaxing to me at> all but causes more neck tension and an inability to sleep. And I've never> been able to achieve a cross-over with alpha-theta training. So I would NOT> train alpha up if it's already high. I was also told this at a conference I> attended last week. Since then I've trained alpha down in the back of my> head and I'm sleeping better. I've only done it once and will keep a close> eye on the #'s. I didn't get your attachment, but if the theta and/or delta> is low in the back of the head you might try training those up and see if it> is helpful to the client.

[Guest guest]

Mike,

I was delighted with your message. I see many clients, both adults

and children, with what I call " anxious alpha " or very high alpha in

the back that responds well to inhibiting it for some people but not

for others. I haven't seen much written about it other than from

Bill . I have several questions.

1. I'm assuming these are people with somewhat low theta to begin

with. Am I correct?

2. How do you determine the sites for training?

3. How do you determine when to decrease the training time?

4. Are you using 4-7 for theta? Or do you use a higher setting

(such as 6-8) to stop abreactions?

5. Have you ever had depression result from this training?

Thanks,

Rosemary

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > I'll throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth. I also had high

> amplitude

> > alpha in the rear of my head. I hesitated to train it down

because

> it seemed

> > couter-intuitive. I will say that training alpha UP is NOT

> relaxing to me at

> > all but causes more neck tension and an inability to sleep. And

> I've never

> > been able to achieve a cross-over with alpha-theta training. So

I

> would NOT

> > train alpha up if it's already high. I was also told this at a

> conference I

> > attended last week. Since then I've trained alpha down in the

> back of my

> > head and I'm sleeping better. I've only done it once and will

keep

> a close

> > eye on the #'s. I didn't get your attachment, but if the theta

> and/or delta

> > is low in the back of the head you might try training those up

and

> see if it

> > is helpful to the client.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Mike

Thanks for the post. Haven't read them all yet, but it seems what you're

saying is that this type of alpha doesn't allow for theta (or subconscious)

communication, so it keeps " unwanted 'stuff' " from being dealt with. This

could possibly also be measured checking the T/B & A/T ratios. Low

Alpha/Theta ratio if theta is " normal " then alpha is huge !.. Or if there is

low Theta/Beta ratio and High Alpha/Theta ratio.

I believe Pete said that the low Theta/Beta, high Alpha/Theta ratio person

was usually someone who didn't want to go anywhere near subconscious

material (complete) denial, and that they made poor Alpha/Theta training

candidates. Could this be your 30 odd clients, Mike ??

So when doing Alpha/Theta training at O1 the client can't make it either to

the crossover ( 7hz ) or lower ??

Thanks