Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 It's all a matter of balance. I wouldn't take Immunocal (because of it not being a whole food) any more than I would eat 2 pounds of algae a day. It's not necessary. You're still getting the nutrients, and all the co-factors that go along with it, just like you do in other whole foods. I don't care how much of any nutrient is in the algae, I only care that it is a whole food and has ALL the nutrients in a balanced form. Nature knows best. And you're right - there's probably microcystin algae in the lake, but that's not what the company puts into the capsules! They use only the aphanizomenon flos aquae. I don't know if the fish know the difference, but luckily the company does. I doubt they would have stayed in business for 30 years if they were selling microcystin algae. Carol > > Carol, I think algae in some respects is a supernutrient whole food, but it fails in terms of adequacy on a couple of points. > > You mentioned it has glutathione content; all living things contain glutathione but their glutathione content has too little value to be meaningful as an oral supplement, as natural glutathione is broken up and digested and not absorbed whole. It's the bonded cysteine you mentioned (as cystine) that would be of interest; bioavailable cysteine is the rate-limiting factor for glutathione production. > > Moving on, according to the following analysis from two vendors of Klamath Lake blue green algae, the cystine content varies between .2% http://tinyurl.com/BGA-analysis and .6% http://www.klamathsbest.co.uk/ ....nutrient content varies with season, temperature, local nutrient availability etc. > > Using an average of 4 mg per gram, 900 grams or two pounds of blue-green algae would provide 3.6 grams or roughly the bonded cysteine delivered by 2-10 gram pouches of Immunocal or a 30 gram scoop of an undenatured whey concentrate. > http://tinyurl.com/BGA-analysis > from google's webcache: > <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0LtCudhbfSUJ:www.algae-wor\ ld.com/algae11.html+cysteine+analysis+%22blue+green%22+algae+mg & cd=2 & hl=en & ct=cl\ nk & client=aff-cs-worldbrowser> > > 900 grams would, in one analysis, provide adequate selenium too; eating 2-4 pounds of algae daily may not be easily swallowed compared to 2-4 ounces of whey powder in water. The algae would have to be similarly refined in order to capture a useful dose in a similarly smaller package. > > And whey, even cross species whey, is almost the ideal food for mammals, allergic issues aside, so it's pretty hard to beat it as a supplement with any whole food. > > Enough of a romp with high-dose blue-green algae theory; few are likely to eat two pounds of algae either in theory or practice, while many do 2-3 doses a day of whey. > > Contamination of the entire watershed by blooms of microcystin-containing algae is a matter of record. This would be hard or dare I say impossible to control. For general interest, if you don't use Google Earth you should; you can see the blooms and currents in Klamath Lake for June 2005 for example. I could see the logs on a friend's cedar shake block application too Microcystins kill liver and kidney cells by killing cells' mitochondrial energy centers, something we try to avoid even at low levels because cell senescence and death due to mitochondrial impairment reduces life expectancy. Annual warnings about the hazard tell one how to correctly gut fish to avoid exposure to their entrails, which contain concentrated algae, and signs remind one to even avoid swimming in the contaminated waters. If the algae is microcystin-containing-algae-free when harvested by humans but not by fish, an investigation into a reaction may look at farm runoff, as there are lots of farms in the drainage area. I would speculate that reactions and fatalities may be rare, and they may involve chiefly those with bad liver function or bowel dysbiosis and resulting leaky gut. > > I lived in Abbotsford, which is also in the Pacific Northwest, although a city it was also a farming area that uses wells, so has or had pesticide residues in the water. Many people I found out reacted pretty consistently with stomach pains on tap water while most of us did not. > > all good, > > Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 *Good point Duncan... and I thought about that when I wrote it. I can't recall if they actually said which it was.* *Jim* On 11/5/2010 12:08 PM, Duncan Crow wrote: > > Jim, if they were using vitamin D3 that is. D2 was also in common use > until the 70's. > > all good, > > Duncan > > > > > > *I have posted this before, but the Vit D Council recently wrote that > > the only known toxic event with Vit D was when them gave 110,000 iu/ > day > > to people in an insane asylum with the objective of curing their mental > > illness, .back in the 30's. They got sick but recovered after they were > > taken off that heavy dose. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 *I think that Duncan's observation is correct here in Delaware also. Dairy Cows are fed silage, hay, and when the grass is growing, they graze. Beef Cattle eat grass till they are " finished " with corn to fatten them up for the market, generally in their last month or so. There is no reason to fatten up dairy cattle.* Jim On 11/5/2010 12:49 PM, julia lowers. wrote: > > duncan, ive actually been horrified hearing about what what some of > the cows are fed here in the us. from what ive seen, cows are > primarily corn and grain fed, but in the interest of saving money, ive > read about cows even being fed beef byproducts. but because of the > cows sensative stomachs which were not created to eat grains, the cows > are then fed antibiotics and given hormones to grow faster, produce > more milk, and tweak mother nature out of another few dollars. thats > why my family uses coconut products . good day to you and yours. > Re: Asthma Question > > , I think that may not be much more than marketing, because ALL > our dairy cows here in the Pacific Northwest are grass-fed and I think > it's uneconomical to raise them on grain if that's the implication. > Eating hay off-season is still " grass-fed " . Do US farms feed dairy > cows primarily silage or primarily grass? > > all good, > > Duncan > > > > > > i just got an email that bioactive nutrients is selling a grass fed > whey protien powder. maybe something to look into? > > -----Original Message----- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 Carol, saying it's a matter of balance doesn't cut it. Maybe for healthy people in a clean environment, but incoming clients are not in balance or they wouldn't be coming in for treatment. Not caring how they accomplish their task of healing and balancing only ducks your responsibility to be thorough. To be thorough, I pointed out that it would require 2 pounds of algae to provide an ill person who is not in balance with the bioavailable cysteine needed and obtained from a couple of pouches of Immunocal. You ducked the question: if you would not suggest 2 pounds of algae per day, then how would you propose to address the 2-3 grams of cysteine deficiency that results in a " poor prognosis " referred to in the research? Just leave their poor prognosis at that and thank them for the appointment? And the matter of selenium deficiency in the algae also can not be ducked by a cavalier attitude or glib response, by people who are relying on your information to get them well. How would you get 400 mcg of selenium with whole food, bearing in mind that yes it's in some Brazil nuts but the supermarket grocer doesn't know where his Brazil Nuts were grown? On the contents of the capsules of blue green algae from Klamath Lake, how does the company describe its process to sort the BGA from other algae? With respect, I think they can't do it so they package the material and spin a yarn about it. all good, Duncan > > It's all a matter of balance. I wouldn't take Immunocal (because of it not being a whole food) any more than I would eat 2 pounds of algae a day. It's not necessary. You're still getting the nutrients, and all the co-factors that go along with it, just like you do in other whole foods. I don't care how much of any nutrient is in the algae, I only care that it is a whole food and has ALL the nutrients in a balanced form. Nature knows best. > > And you're right - there's probably microcystin algae in the lake, but that's not what the company puts into the capsules! They use only the aphanizomenon flos aquae. I don't know if the fish know the difference, but luckily the company does. I doubt they would have stayed in business for 30 years if they were selling microcystin algae. > > Carol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 , I'm aware of some of the farming practices but I think corn and grain are generally used to finish slaughter cows, not to feed dairy cows; however, silage is cheap and may be the main feed there as it's an occasional and off-season feed here where we are not in the corn belt. Several nutrients found in milk fat are not present in cococnut oil. all good, Duncan > > duncan, ive actually been horrified hearing about what what some of the cows are fed here in the us. from what ive seen, cows are primarily corn and grain fed, but in the interest of saving money, ive read about cows even being fed beef byproducts. but because of the cows sensative stomachs which were not created to eat grains, the cows are then fed antibiotics and given hormones to grow faster, produce more milk, and tweak mother nature out of another few dollars. thats why my family uses coconut products . good day to you and yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 *Not to mention the cost of Blue Green Algae even in much smaller quantities. Jim* On 11/5/2010 5:40 PM, Duncan Crow wrote: > > Carol, saying it's a matter of balance doesn't cut it. Maybe for > healthy people in a clean environment, but incoming clients are not in > balance or they wouldn't be coming in for treatment. Not caring how > they accomplish their task of healing and balancing only ducks your > responsibility to be thorough. > > To be thorough, I pointed out that it would require 2 pounds of algae > to provide an ill person who is not in balance with the bioavailable > cysteine needed and obtained from a couple of pouches of Immunocal. > > You ducked the question: if you would not suggest 2 pounds of algae > per day, then how would you propose to address the 2-3 grams of > cysteine deficiency that results in a " poor prognosis " referred to in > the research? Just leave their poor prognosis at that and thank them > for the appointment? > > And the matter of selenium deficiency in the algae also can not be > ducked by a cavalier attitude or glib response, by people who are > relying on your information to get them well. How would you get 400 > mcg of selenium with whole food, bearing in mind that yes it's in some > Brazil nuts but the supermarket grocer doesn't know where his Brazil > Nuts were grown? > > On the contents of the capsules of blue green algae from Klamath Lake, > how does the company describe its process to sort the BGA from other > algae? With respect, I think they can't do it so they package the > material and spin a yarn about it. > > all good, > > Duncan > > > > > > It's all a matter of balance. I wouldn't take Immunocal (because of > it not being a whole food) any more than I would eat 2 pounds of algae > a day. It's not necessary. You're still getting the nutrients, and all > the co-factors that go along with it, just like you do in other whole > foods. I don't care how much of any nutrient is in the algae, I only > care that it is a whole food and has ALL the nutrients in a balanced > form. Nature knows best. > > > > And you're right - there's probably microcystin algae in the lake, > but that's not what the company puts into the capsules! They use only > the aphanizomenon flos aquae. I don't know if the fish know the > difference, but luckily the company does. I doubt they would have > stayed in business for 30 years if they were selling microcystin algae. > > > > Carol > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 I've had excellent results with clients, having them eat whole foods and whole food supplements, not mega doses of isolated substances. They are happy with the results they get. I realize it's a very different concept than what most people are accustomed to, and that's ok. The people who come to me know what I do and that's the route they want to take. I'm not ducking your question - I just don't use or recommend isolated substances. Our company uses Enzyme-Linked ImmunoSorbent Assay. Samples also go to world-renowned algae scientists Dr. Don of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute and Dr. Wayne Carmichael of State University for independent testing. No yarn. Carol > > On 11/5/2010 5:40 PM, Duncan Crow wrote: > > > > Carol, saying it's a matter of balance doesn't cut it. Maybe for > > healthy people in a clean environment, but incoming clients are not in > > balance or they wouldn't be coming in for treatment. Not caring how > > they accomplish their task of healing and balancing only ducks your > > responsibility to be thorough. > > > > To be thorough, I pointed out that it would require 2 pounds of algae > > to provide an ill person who is not in balance with the bioavailable > > cysteine needed and obtained from a couple of pouches of Immunocal. > > > > You ducked the question: if you would not suggest 2 pounds of algae > > per day, then how would you propose to address the 2-3 grams of > > cysteine deficiency that results in a " poor prognosis " referred to in > > the research? Just leave their poor prognosis at that and thank them > > for the appointment? > > > > And the matter of selenium deficiency in the algae also can not be > > ducked by a cavalier attitude or glib response, by people who are > > relying on your information to get them well. How would you get 400 > > mcg of selenium with whole food, bearing in mind that yes it's in some > > Brazil nuts but the supermarket grocer doesn't know where his Brazil > > Nuts were grown? > > > > On the contents of the capsules of blue green algae from Klamath Lake, > > how does the company describe its process to sort the BGA from other > > algae? With respect, I think they can't do it so they package the > > material and spin a yarn about it. > > > > all good, > > > > Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 I believe the reason to fatten up cattle is to have a higher total body weight as they are sold on that basis.... d > > duncan, ive actually been horrified hearing about what what some of > the cows are fed here in the us. from what ive seen, cows are > primarily corn and grain fed, but in the interest of saving money, ive > read about cows even being fed beef byproducts. but because of the > cows sensative stomachs which were not created to eat grains, the cows > are then fed antibiotics and given hormones to grow faster, produce > more milk, and tweak mother nature out of another few dollars. thats > why my family uses coconut products . good day to you and yours. > Re: Asthma Question > > , I think that may not be much more than marketing, because ALL > our dairy cows here in the Pacific Northwest are grass-fed and I think > it's uneconomical to raise them on grain if that's the implication. > Eating hay off-season is still " grass-fed " . Do US farms feed dairy > cows primarily silage or primarily grass? > > all good, > > Duncan > > > > > > i just got an email that bioactive nutrients is selling a grass fed > whey protien powder. maybe something to look into? > > -----Original Message----- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 I would like to suggest that the subject line should be changed, as we are no longer discussing Asthma on this thread...It really helps to make a decision if to open or not open an email. Thanks - :>) From: Don <hooty304@...> Subject: Re: Re: Asthma Question I believe the reason to fatten up cattle is to have a higher total body weight as they are sold on that basis.... d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 True D... its all about marketing the meat product. Finishing with corn adds lots of weight quickly, but at a higher cost. Farmers are careful not to let the cattle walk far when they of being finished... to do so let's them walk off dollars. Jim On 11/6/2010 10:58 AM, Don wrote: > > I believe the reason to fatten up cattle is to have a higher total > body weight as they are sold on that basis.... > d > > > > > > duncan, ive actually been horrified hearing about what what some of > > the cows are fed here in the us. from what ive seen, cows are > > primarily corn and grain fed, but in the interest of saving money, ive > > read about cows even being fed beef byproducts. but because of the > > cows sensative stomachs which were not created to eat grains, the cows > > are then fed antibiotics and given hormones to grow faster, produce > > more milk, and tweak mother nature out of another few dollars. thats > > why my family uses coconut products . good day to you and yours. > > Re: Asthma Question > > > > , I think that may not be much more than marketing, because ALL > > our dairy cows here in the Pacific Northwest are grass-fed and I think > > it's uneconomical to raise them on grain if that's the implication. > > Eating hay off-season is still " grass-fed " . Do US farms feed dairy > > cows primarily silage or primarily grass? > > > > all good, > > > > Duncan > > > > > > > > > > i just got an email that bioactive nutrients is selling a grass fed > > whey protien powder. maybe something to look into? > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 haha - that's pretty funny . I just know you can't argue with the results I'm getting, with me, and with clients. Actually, even animals, who don't know anything about hype. Carol > sounds to me like you've bought into a load of MLM marketing hype based on nothing more than new-age hippy religion and wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 Spoken like someone who has no clue as to the powerful results you can get from this amazing food. that's all > > Hi , no, 4 caps of dried algae will have no effect on cellular glutathione levels; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 Spoken by someone with no clue as to the requirement for glutathione precursors or the importance thereof. Well, you tried, and so did I Duncan > > > > Hi , no, 4 caps of dried algae will have no effect on cellular glutathione levels; > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 I feel a need to put a word in here because of my own results long ago. I signed up with the original Cell Tech back in '89. I was feeling pretty rough, with undiagnosed fatigue, occasional bouts with FM, but it was the lack of motivation to do anything beyond the necessities of my life that was really pulling me down. I started taking their Alpha plus the Omega algae at 2 each, 3x a day, in the month of June. With this I added a liver capsule, Liquid Liver (name now changed) by Enzymatic Therapy (no financial interest in that, or in the algae now). Actually, I had been using the liver supplement for awhile already. I will never forget the following January when I woke up one morning with a new interest in " life " and decided to put myself through Real Estate School. Got my license, continued the algae/liver and had a banner year. I continued this regimen for 18 months at a point where my whole world changed by events beyond my control and I never got back to the algae. No, I'm not inclined to go back to this now as I have other supplements which are more important to me, and my budget has become limited. If I had the means though, I would be back on this. This is just one of those " don't knock it till you've tried it " messages, and I don't even know Carol. It's only fair to say that something that doesn't seem like it might have a lot to offer, for certain people it can be just what they need---------even if it takes 6 months to do it's job. Sharon > > haha - that's pretty funny . > I just know you can't argue with the results I'm getting, with me, and with > clients. Actually, even animals, who don't know anything about hype. > > Carol > > > > > sounds to me like you've bought into a load of MLM marketing hype based on > nothing more than new-age hippy religion and wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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