Re: SMART Brain Games system

[Guest guest]

There are lots of good and kind people on this site. Sounds like you have quite a few problems.

Others will jump in soon I'm sure so I'll just say Welcome! While this site is mostly for professionals there are a few "home users" which I am, and since you've use SBG you would fall into that bucket.

This site explores the possibilites of NF framed mostly in the context of the TLC assessment described on

http://www.brain-trainer.com/

thus the name of the group. You might want to start looking over the site. Others will comment soon, I'm sure.

-- A

Do Something Useful

SMART Brain Games system

I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little background. Decades of borderline depression, worsening with PTSD and anxiety x 5 years, extremely negative effects with medications, no "life-changing" effect with therapy. Recently developed socially crippling anxiety attacks, found BCIA certified NFB in my area. Spent 2 months and $1000 (and wrecked my car getting there), never had a NFB session. My husband found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a week, some mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another stressor. Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I have noted some effect. Joined the wrong discussion group, got my butt chewed for not continuing to fork over cash to the "pro's," but one kind person directed me here. I realize I may have purchased the worst system out there, but my "healthcare providers" have pretty well cleaned out my savings, and I have lost my job now. Is there anyone with anything USEFUL and preferably KIND to say? I have admitted up front that I have mental illness that I cannot treat with medication, so take it easy on me, please.

[Guest guest]

Dear

Welcome. I am sure you will find a home here.

Mark

SMART Brain Games system

I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little background. Decades of borderline depression, worsening with PTSD and anxiety x 5 years, extremely negative effects with medications, no "life-changing" effect with therapy. Recently developed socially crippling anxiety attacks, found BCIA certified NFB in my area. Spent 2 months and $1000 (and wrecked my car getting there), never had a NFB session. My husband found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a week, some mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another stressor. Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I have noted some effect. Joined the wrong discussion group, got my butt chewed for not continuing to fork over cash to the "pro's," but one kind person directed me here. I realize I may have purchased the worst system out there, but my "healthcare providers" have pretty well cleaned out my savings, and I have lost my job now. Is there anyone with anything USEFUL and preferably KIND to say? I have admitted up front that I have mental illness that I cannot treat with medication, so take it easy on me, please.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info are you familiar with the BM 2.E setup and use? A <PetePixxx@...> wrote: There are lots of good and kind people on this site. Sounds like you have quite a few problems. Others will jump in soon I'm sure so I'll just say Welcome! While this site is mostly for professionals there are a few "home users" which I am, and since you've use SBG you would fall into that bucket. This site explores the possibilites of NF framed mostly in the context of the TLC assessment described on http://www.brain-trainer.com/ thus the name of the group. You might want to start looking over the site. Others will comment soon, I'm sure. -- A Do Something Useful SMART Brain Games system I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little background. Decades of borderline depression, worsening with PTSD and anxiety x 5 years, extremely negative effects with medications, no "life-changing" effect with therapy. Recently developed socially crippling anxiety attacks, found BCIA certified NFB in my area. Spent 2 months and $1000 (and wrecked my car getting there), never had a NFB session. My husband found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a week, some mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another stressor. Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I

have noted some effect. Joined the wrong discussion group, got my butt chewed for not continuing to fork over cash to the "pro's," but one kind person directed me here. I realize I may have purchased the worst system out there, but my "healthcare providers" have pretty well cleaned out my savings, and I have lost my job now. Is there anyone with anything USEFUL and preferably KIND to say? I have admitted up front that I have mental illness that I cannot treat with medication, so take it easy on me, please.

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

I haven't done much BM. I have one, used it for a while a few years ago. Then switched to back to my WaveRider box and started using BioExplorer software. BE is the frontend software somewhat like the BM software but will a bit more flexibility and pretty pictures.

As far as NF goes it's physically just about the same with whatever system. Plug the box into your computer, boot up the software, goop some electrodes to your head. That's in in a nutshell. All you do then is adapt your brain to the feedback that you are getting as to the "state" you are in. The Brain-Trainer website goes into more detail. Of course, if you got the BM to train youself to read better perhaps that isn't so good. You can request the names of NF trainers near your location. Many times good solid hands on help gets that training snowball rolling down the hill.

One popular book is A Symphony in the Brain. That describes NF but doesn't tell you how to use BM.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0871138077/002-1800280-9234457?v=glance & n=283155

All you need to do is recognize, or learn, which parts of our brain are "playing" which song, which instrument, at what speed, pitch, volume, etc. Then you get them to play the same tune, in time, with inflection you prefer.

Maybe some soft Hayden to start out, add some frolicking Mozat, then you teach them some Wagner to add some stress.

In case you haven't guessed NF descriptions are lots of analogies. Don't get me started on cars or bicycles ...

The WaveRider was actually sold as a musical instrument (really!) because the rythms sound so good when translated into a drum beat or instrument.

OK, perhaps a little meat. You can find some indications of "general" brain patterns on the Brain-Trainer.com site. The problem is that brains are goopy mush floating in fluid surounded by a hard shell. EEG feedback is based on the electrical signal shooting toward the outside of the head in a somewhat consistent pattern depending of what is happening to the structures within the consciousness inside. It's like measureing the spark plug energy through the hood of the car with the engine floating fluid. Darn weird that it works at all. But it does.

So to start out the the BM plug it in, goop up the trodes and slap them on. The software will have moving lines, or bars going up and down. I don't know which protocol you need. Most people start with the "safe" ones like "Attention" Look for a basic easy one and just see what comes out on the screen.

Can you tell I've just spent three days rebuilding a computer and I need to vent? Got a nice new AMD x2 that rocks!

Read the BM manual. If I remember correctly it's not too bad. Call BM sooner rather than later if you have problems. The BM isn't a simple machine. Good Luck.

-- A

Do Something Useful

P.S. I got a SBG system last summer. Used it a few times but I only like to play games occasionally. I'm expecting to use it again soon in the next stage of my progress.

SMART Brain Games system

I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little background. Decades of borderline depression, worsening with PTSD and anxiety x 5 years, extremely negative effects with medications, no "life-changing" effect with therapy. Recently developed socially crippling anxiety attacks, found BCIA certified NFB in my area. Spent 2 months and $1000 (and wrecked my car getting there), never had a NFB session. My husband found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a week, some mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another stressor. Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I have noted some effect. Joined the wrong discussion group, got my butt chewed for not continuing to fork over cash to the "pro's," but one kind person directed me here. I realize I may have purchased the worst system out there, but my "healthcare providers" have pretty well cleaned out my savings, and I have lost my job now. Is there anyone with anything USEFUL and preferably KIND to say? I have admitted up front that I have mental illness that I cannot treat with medication, so take it easy on me, please.

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

> I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little

background.

Welcome.

>My husband found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a

week, some mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another

stressor. Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I have

noted some effect.

I do concentration training (I suppose this is FOCUS on the SMART) 2-3

times a day for more severe problems than yours and I would not do

less. I need it.

But then, SMART doesn't have Alpha-theta training, and that is very

good for anxiety and absolutely necessary for PTSD.

So you'd need a dedicated system to help yourself significantly

further with NFB. On the other hand, if you bought a light/sound

machine, set it to 7 hz, that might help too, though maybe not enough.

I haven't tried to see if the healing imagery would come; I have only

tried it with A/T and it's a definite booster.

Hope this helps.

Tommi

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the list. The standard of interaction here tends to be limited to "useful and kind," so I think that you have found your way to a good learning place. I hear you questioning your purchase of the SMART Brain Games system. Try to go easy on yourself - many of us have one or more pieces of software or hardware that, in hindsight, may have not been the perfect fit for our needs at the time. I do not have firsthand experience with the SMART system, so I cannot help you directly with that. That will be the case for most of the people on this list, which tends to be populated with Pocket Neurobics and BrainMaster users, some running a software program called BioExplorer. You can still learn a great deal from this board. Also, please know that people seem to find ways to get good results with most kinds of equipment. I've not heard that the SMART system is particularly bad, I've just neve

r been particularly attracted to it.

It is my understanding with the SMART system that the distributor sets your protocol. This is not unlike the approach to remote training that many BrainMaster users adopt and use successfully. I think it's encouraging that you have already noticed signs of improvement, however small. Based on your self-description, you're attempting to overcome a lot of symptoms, and you may be looking at a lengthy course of neurofeeback even under the best of circumstances. It's okay if the training takes time, though of course you want to feel better as quickly and easily as possible I have a history of brain injury through impact as well as central nervous system infection, and I have had tremendous improvement, but still have a long way to go after well over 100 sessions.

Do you know the specifics of your neurofeedback protocol? That is, what specifically are you training your brain to do? This need not be a secret, so if you don't know, I'd suggest that you get the person who programmed your system to write it down for you. Also, a couple of questions for you: How are you coordinating interaction/monitoring with the distributor clinician? How long have you actually had the SMART system, and is it covered by any sort of return policy? What part of the country are you in?

Best wishes,

Merrifield

-------------- Original message from "treesnail" <treesnail@...>: -------------- > I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little background. > Decades of borderline depression, worsening with PTSD and anxiety x 5 > years, extremely negative effects with medications, no "life-changing" > effect with therapy. Recently developed socially crippling anxiety > attacks, found BCIA certified NFB in my area. Spent 2 months and $1000 > (and wrecked my car getting there), never had a NFB session. My husband > found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a week, some > mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another stressor. > Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I have noted some > effect. Joined the wrong discussion group, got my butt chewed for not > continu

ing to fork over cash to the "pro's," but one kind person > directed me here. I realize I may have purchased the worst system out > there, but my "healthcare providers" have pretty well cleaned out my > savings, and I have lost my job now. Is there anyone with anything > USEFUL and preferably KIND to say? I have admitted up front that I have > mental illness that I cannot treat with medication, so take it easy on > me, please. > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

-

Thanks for the input. The protocol I have been training on has a 58%

81% filter pair, uptrains beta 2 and downtrains alpha and theta. Is

that the information you were looking for? The unit has 4 other

protocols that all uptrain beta 1, and I was under the impression

that with anxiety uptraining beta 2 might be better. The website

Unfortunately, my only help is my spouse. Even the company

affiliated trainers are 100's of miles away (I'm in Idaho.) I have a

therapist who is open minded, but knows nothing about NFB herself.

So, no clinician interaction at all. I have had the unit about a

month now. I doubt they will allow returns. It sounds like I need to

establish a relationship with one of thier providers, perhaps they

can be of some help long distance.

Again, thanks!

>

> Hi ,

> Welcome to the list. The standard of interaction here tends

to be limited to " useful and kind, " so I think that you have found

your way to a good learning place. I hear you questioning your

purchase of the SMART Brain Games system. Try to go easy on

yourself - many of us have one or more pieces of software or

hardware that, in hindsight, may have not been the perfect fit for

our needs at the time. I do not have firsthand experience with the

SMART system, so I cannot help you directly with that. That will be

the case for most of the people on this list, which tends to be

populated with Pocket Neurobics and BrainMaster users, some running

a software program called BioExplorer. You can still learn a great

deal from this board. Also, please know that people seem to find

ways to get good results with most kinds of equipment. I've not

heard that the SMART system is particularly bad, I've just never

been particularly attracted to it.

>

> It is my understanding with the SMART system that the

distributor sets your protocol. This is not unlike the approach to

remote training that many BrainMaster users adopt and use

successfully. I think it's encouraging that you have already

noticed signs of improvement, however small. Based on your self-

description, you're attempting to overcome a lot of symptoms, and

you may be looking at a lengthy course of neurofeeback even under

the best of circumstances. It's okay if the training takes time,

though of course you want to feel better as quickly and easily as

possible I have a history of brain injury through impact as well as

central nervous system infection, and I have had tremendous

improvement, but still have a long way to go after well over 100

sessions.

>

> Do you know the specifics of your neurofeedback protocol?

That is, what specifically are you training your brain to do? This

need not be a secret, so if you don't know, I'd suggest that you get

the person who programmed your system to write it down for you.

Also, a couple of questions for you: How are you coordinating

interaction/monitoring with the distributor clinician? How long

have you actually had the SMART system, and is it covered by any

sort of return policy? What part of the country are you in?

>

> Best wishes,

> Merrifield

> -------------- Original message from " treesnail " <treesnail@...>: -

-------------

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No ADD, more " overfocus. " No trainer, tried to get pro assessment

and got wrecked car and worsening of crowd avoidance (and savings

account lightened) instead. Have noted definite improvement in my

internal dialog which had been highly self-destructive, husband has

noted improved verbal-implusiveness control, so I am disinclined to

tell SBG it did not work, as suggested by another post.

Additionally, they asked me if I had any Dx, and I said " no. " They

would not have sold it to me otherwise, and I had 3 weeks of FMLA

left to try to get healed enough to return to work. The pro wasted

my precious time off, in addition to my money. Now nearly broke and

unemployed, almost frustrated with my success. Had I started even

the SBG at the start of FMLA, I would probably still have a career.

I have emailed one of there trainers, confessed my sin - I'll see

what he says. He is 500 miles away, so I don't know how useful a

relationship with him will be, but it is a place to start.

>

> ,

>

> I think you've come to the right place.

>

> Your situation is a really good example of why one should do an

> assessment before starting braintraining. The TLC Assessment is the

> cheapest (free) way to do that, but you need to have EEG equipment

> (Brainmaster or something running BioExplorer software)or know

someone

> who does.

>

> The protocols you mention are the opposite of what I would expect

to end

> up doing for an anxiety situation. However without knowing about

YOUR

> brain specifically, who can say? You don't mention where you are

> training, which is another important piece.

>

> Most important question tho is, What effect is the training having?

>

> Is SMART for attention deficit issues? Do you have those?

>

> Foxx

>

[Guest guest]

, I had failed to notice that. Not that I failed to notice the

encouragement of the letter, I have been half weepy all AM thinking

perhaps I have found some support! That's the problem with mental

illness - I have an incredible IQ, and still miss the painfully

obvious!

Thanks!!!

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I think you've come to the right place.

> >

> > Your situation is a really good example of why one should do an

> > assessment before starting braintraining. The TLC Assessment

is the

> > cheapest (free) way to do that, but you need to have EEG

equipment

> > (Brainmaster or something running BioExplorer software)or know

> someone

> > who does.

> >

> > The protocols you mention are the opposite of what I would

expect

> to end

> > up doing for an anxiety situation. However without knowing

about

> YOUR

> > brain specifically, who can say? You don't mention where you

are

> > training, which is another important piece.

> >

> > Most important question tho is, What effect is the training

having?

> >

> > Is SMART for attention deficit issues? Do you have those?

> >

> > Foxx

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been checking on things, and I think the BoiExplorer is

compatible, waiting confirmation from the company. My unit has 5

(what I assume you are calling) channels, but I can only access

three of them. One goes on the top, one live lead behind one ear and

a nuetral lead behind the other - I've paid no attention to which

ear gets which. My understanding is association with a SBG provider

will give me access to the other 2 channels. I have only the vaguest

understanding of NFB, but was under the impression that it was

fairly free of unwanted side effects. I have also noted some

abatement of symptoms, so I don't really understand why the concern

over training the wrong spots or the wrong band. I realize I may not

get maximum benefit, but am I risking harm?

>

> and Dominic,

>

> Dominic is it possible to do the TLC assessment with BrainGames?

That

> would require a 2 channel device that can send a raw signal to

> BioExplorer.

>

> What kind of evaluation would your professional do, if went

to

> see them?

>

> Cetainly without an assessment, I would not train down alpha (8-

12) in

> someone with anxiety issues!! Training up 12-15 probably won't

hurt.

>

> Although again my question is, what sites are being trained? Is

this

> one, two, multi channel? I didn't see any tech specs on your site,

> Dominic.

>

> I would also not train prefrontal sites left and right in the same

way.

> With anyone.

>

> Foxx

>

>

[Guest guest]

>hardware shown on the company's site looks like a pretty tricked-out

>version if it is at all.

Brude said to me it is just an options-limited Pocket.

Tommi

[Guest guest]

I appreciate the thought. I am not so much unwilling to see a pro,

as needing to be very careful with the resources I have left. I have

yet to find another pro nearby, but have not ruled out seeing one. I

need someone willing to set up some sort of long-distance

arrangement. Truly, with the wealth of info received the past few

days I would prefer guidance.

>

> Mark and others,

> Since is understandably cautious about going

to " professionals " , even

> if it is for a TLC assessment, would it be advisable for her to

ask to get a

> copy of it, say on disc, from whomever she might go to? That way

it might

> be shared with the group members on this list, if chose to,

who could

> then offer interpretations and practical advise about what to do

given the

> results. could get collective feedback that might be

easier to

> digest because she could be free to chose among multiple

alternative

> explanations.

>

> Kirk

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That group can be brutal. Don't let it get you too down. I'm not

familiar with the SMART system but describe it and maybe we can

figure our something that could help you. You certainly are using it

enough. Maybe too much.

On Mar 6, 2006, at 4:06 PM, treesnail wrote:

> I'm new to the group, please allow me to to give a little background.

> Decades of borderline depression, worsening with PTSD and anxiety x 5

> years, extremely negative effects with medications, no " life-changing "

> effect with therapy. Recently developed socially crippling anxiety

> attacks, found BCIA certified NFB in my area. Spent 2 months and $1000

> (and wrecked my car getting there), never had a NFB session. My

> husband

> found SMART system, we bought it. Had been using 3 times a week, some

> mild effect noted but coincided with resolution of another stressor.

> Recently bumped it to several times a day, and think I have noted some

> effect. Joined the wrong discussion group, got my butt chewed for not

> continuing to fork over cash to the " pro's, " but one kind person

> directed me here. I realize I may have purchased the worst system out

> there, but my " healthcare providers " have pretty well cleaned out my

> savings, and I have lost my job now. Is there anyone with anything

> USEFUL and preferably KIND to say? I have admitted up front that I

> have

> mental illness that I cannot treat with medication, so take it easy on

> me, please.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>