Re: BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

April 20, 2006

I'm a home trainer that just recently enjoyed a week of Pete's training. I highly recommend it. Over the last few years I've trained on BM, WaveRider, and more recently PN's Pocket. Before you get the BM and software I would suggest going to:

http://www.brain-trainer.com/index.html

And review their machine/software combinations. And especially the ABCD program to get you started. The protocols used for training are now far more important because the different equipment offerings are mostly peas out of the same pod.

Oh, BioEx has a learning curve to design your own. The ABCD can get you over that bump.

~ A

Do Something Useful

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to buy in BioExplorer).AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the Brainmaster hardware with either software.However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5 charges extra for these.They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their freetrial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and there is a CD rom tutorial included.However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a system is, in operating that counts.So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you think.Thanks,Anglo.Amalgamated

April 20, 2006

Just to clarify: current EEG equipment are peas in a pod. This a mature field.

GSR, HEG, etc are extra depending upon your needs.

~ A

DSU

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to buy in BioExplorer).AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the Brainmaster hardware with either software.However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5 charges extra for these.They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their freetrial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and there is a CD rom tutorial included.However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a system is, in operating that counts.So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you think.Thanks,Anglo.Amalgamated

April 20, 2006

Thanks for your reply but it dosent really answer my question or

address it. By peas in a pod are you saying they are all the same.

As far as I have been able to ascertain there are differences

between these two programs, some of which I described in my post.

I need someone who is familiar with working with these two

programmes, to tell me their preference and why. It isnt going to be

difinitive, but it will be very helpful.

Thanks

>

> Just to clarify: current EEG equipment are peas in a pod. This a

mature field.

>

> GSR, HEG, etc are extra depending upon your needs.

>

> ~ A

> DSU

>

> BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5

software???

>

> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs

let

> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and

why.

> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal

training.

> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5

software has

> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they

make

> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they

have to

> buy in BioExplorer).

>

> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

> charges extra for these.

> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training

CD so

> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the

setting

> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their

free

> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly

and

> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>

> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and

comprehensive a

> system is, in operating that counts.

>

> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what

you

> think.

> Thanks,

> Anglo.Amalgamated

>

April 20, 2006

Sorry, what I was getting at is that unless you know what protocols and types of feedback you will need then it is much more difficult to compare the details of the program.

What is it that you want to do? Where? How often? What kind of feedback do you prefer? Audio? Visual? What kind of EEG experience do you have to know how you will understand when your question is answered?

~ A

DSU

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???> > > Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let > me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has > now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make > the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to > buy in BioExplorer).> > AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the > Brainmaster hardware with either software.> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5 > charges extra for these.> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so > and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting > up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and > there is a CD rom tutorial included.> > However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a > system is, in operating that counts.> > So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you > think.> Thanks,> Anglo.Amalgamated> > > > > >

April 20, 2006

I have asked people to give me their preference and why, clearly you

are either unwilling or unable to answer that.

I have said that my priorities are flexibility and comprehensivness.

As you are so experienced perhaps you can give me your views as to

these two criteria.

> >

> > Just to clarify: current EEG equipment are peas in a pod.

This a

> mature field.

> >

> > GSR, HEG, etc are extra depending upon your needs.

> >

> > ~ A

> > DSU

> >

> > BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5

> software???

> >

> > Please could someone who has experience of both these

programs

> let

> > me know which in their opinion is the better of the two

and

> why.

> > I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal

> training.

> > I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5

> software has

> > now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both,

they

> make

> > the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but

they

> have to

> > buy in BioExplorer).

> >

> > AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy

the

> > Brainmaster hardware with either software.

> > However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the

Bmstr2.5

> > charges extra for these.

> > They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or

training

> CD so

> > and that the learning curve is difficult because all of

the

> setting

> > up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried

their

> free

> > trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

> > Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user

friendly

> and

> > there is a CD rom tutorial included.

> >

> > However in the final anaysis its how flexible and

> comprehensive a

> > system is, in operating that counts.

> >

> > So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know

what

> you

> > think.

> > Thanks,

> > Anglo.Amalgamated

> >

April 20, 2006

Anglo,

I have used both (though, in fairness, only getting started with BrainMaster 2.5

after years with 2.0). We sell both on the website (Brainmaster at a 10%

discount), so I have no real financial interest in which you buy either.

I would not agree that 2.5 has bypassed BioExplorer, but, as suggests in

his posts, it depends to some extent on what you want to do with it. I would

agree that 2.5 is much closer to BioExplorer than it has ever been, though they

still are plagued by those irritating add-ons in cost. And BrainMaster is

clearly a better choice if you want software that can play games.

Several thoughts:

If you want to be able to do assessments, you can use that as a divider between

the two. BioExplorer allows you to do the TLC assess Pro (downloadable from the

brain-trainer.com website free of charge including step-by-step instructions).

I think that, if you know what you are looking at, gives you a huge amount of

information aimed at developing training plans. As mentioned, the ABCD

service on the brain-trainer site allows you to gather the data and send it in

for a relatively inexpensive professional review and training plan--and you can

request BioExplorer designs specific to that plan. Brainmaster offers the

Mini-Q (which requires purchase of a pretty expensive switchbox and electrode

cap) that allows you to gather data and then send to a normative database (don't

know the cost of that processing these days), but you'll still need someone to

look at it and tell you what the best training approaches would be. I've sent

brainmaster the information needed for them to put together a file that would

allow you to do the TLC assess on 2.5 (there's an earlier version that can be

done on 2.0), but as yet that hasn't happened.

As for tutorial materials, I completely agree with them. BioExplorere really

doesn't have much of a manual (though we do offer a tutorial file on the

brain-trainer site), and BrainMaster has hundreds of pages. It's up to you to

decide which is worse. Many folks who get started with NF find the huge manual

about as difficult to make sense of as no manual at all.

Brainmaster does come with a whole batch of preset protocols, so if you know

what you want to do, chances are that you will be able to find one that does it.

On the other hand, we offer a package of bioExplorer designs with aboout 35

presets that do more or less the same thing. Buying BioExplorer with the

designs and the tutorial on the BrainTrainer site costs, I think, about $535.

Buying Brainmaster 2.5 from scratch will cost you $1495 (I don't think that

includes the 2.5 software or any of the software add-ons). Be aware that, as a

home trainer, you may have difficulty using or changing protocols, since

BrainMaster locks the unit unless you buy the clinicial version (which you can't

do without a license). I would say, if you want games, 2.5 is far ahead of

BioExplorer, since there are 4 very good ones, compared to a very limited (so

far) set for BioExplorer.

I think you will find that there is a learning curve on either of the software

packages. One of the benefits of BE over BM software is that once you learn it,

you have many options of hardware that all use the same software package.

Sounds like a small thing now, but one of the things that happens to very many

people who start in this field is that they buy second or third pieces of

equipment.

One of the questions you might want to consider is whether BrainMaster is the

best hardware option. For about the same price you can get a Pendant, which is

wireless (doesn't cable to the computer), Bioexplorer with the design package,

and active EEG electrodes. That is technically an equal or superior system,

very easy to transport, and requires no add-ons to be able to train with DVD's,

great range of MIDI sounds, etc.

Hope this is helpful.

Pete

>

> From: " anglo.amalgamated " <anglo.amalgamated@...>

> Date: 2006/04/20 Thu AM 04:56:10 EDT

>

> Subject: BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

>

> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let

me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.

I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.

I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has

now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make

the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to

buy in BioExplorer).

AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

Brainmaster hardware with either software.

However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

charges extra for these.

They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so

and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting

up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free

trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and

there is a CD rom tutorial included.

However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a

system is, in operating that counts.

So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you

think.

Thanks,

Anglo.Amalgamated

April 20, 2006

Angelo~

If you want to search back in time in the achieves, about a

year ago Pete Van Deusen wrote a nice comparison on the 2 softwares. Keep

in mind there have been quite a few upgrades to the Bioexplorer since then

and perhaps a few to brainmaster.

~

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5

>> software???

>> >

>> > Please could someone who has experience of both these

> programs

>> let

>> > me know which in their opinion is the better of the two

> and

>> why.

>> > I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal

>> training.

>> > I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5

>> software has

>> > now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both,

> they

>> make

>> > the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but

> they

>> have to

>> > buy in BioExplorer).

>> >

>> > AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy

> the

>> > Brainmaster hardware with either software.

>> > However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the

> Bmstr2.5

>> > charges extra for these.

>> > They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or

> training

>> CD so

>> > and that the learning curve is difficult because all of

> the

>> setting

>> > up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried

> their

>> free

>> > trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

>> > Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user

> friendly

>> and

>> > there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>> >

>> > However in the final anaysis its how flexible and

>> comprehensive a

>> > system is, in operating that counts.

>> >

>> > So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know

> what

>> you

>> > think.

>> > Thanks,

>> > Anglo.Amalgamated

>> >

April 20, 2006

Pete's answer has got you covered. Way too much like work for me.

~ A

DSU

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 > software???> > > > > > Please could someone who has experience of both these programs > let > > me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and > why.> > I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal > training.> > I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 > software has > > now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they > make > > the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they > have to > > buy in BioExplorer).> > > > AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the > > Brainmaster hardware with either software.> > However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5 > > charges extra for these.> > They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training > CD so > > and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the > setting > > up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their > free> > trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).> > Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly > and > > there is a CD rom tutorial included.> > > > However in the final anaysis its how flexible and > comprehensive a > > system is, in operating that counts.> > > > So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what > you > > think.> > Thanks,> > Anglo.Amalgamated> > > > > > > > > > > >

April 20, 2006

Anglo,

Pete's post covered much of what I would say as well.

The BrainMaster sofware has made some remarkable additions in the past

year.

I do think that BE is a bit more flexible in its ability to create

protocols.

A couple things that Pete did nor cover are

BioExplorer works with several NFB units that offer 4 or more channels

of EEG. I have been using the QDS NFK 4 channel unit and find myself

doing a great deal of 4 channel training lately. 4 channel training

has been much more powerful for some of my clients. One thing that is

possible is 4 channel alpha synchrony training. I would refer you to

the work of Les Fehmi for more information on that style of training,

There is a full head assessment system (19 sites), the sQEG, available

that works with BioExplorer. It is not data based but does create very

good maps for the standard bands as well as maps of 1 hz bins. Dr

Amen's brain system checklist is integrated into the software.

Although BrainMaster does have more games available the is a new system

from Cognisys that interfaces between you computer and almost any piece

of hardware that displays an image ( dvd player, VCR, video camera,

cable tv and any video game system)

It will adjust the level of visibility of the screen in several ways.

There is now an EEG driven photic stimulation unit that can be used

with BioExplorer. Unlike the other options for Photic Stim, (Roshi

or Nexis) this runs with BE and any of the EEG hardware available out

there.

On Apr 20, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Van Deusen wrote:

> Anglo,

>

> I have used both (though, in fairness, only getting started with

> BrainMaster 2.5 after years with 2.0). We sell both on the website

> (Brainmaster at a 10% discount), so I have no real financial interest

> in which you buy either.

>

> I would not agree that 2.5 has bypassed BioExplorer, but, as

> suggests in his posts, it depends to some extent on what you want to

> do with it. I would agree that 2.5 is much closer to BioExplorer than

> it has ever been, though they still are plagued by those irritating

> add-ons in cost. And BrainMaster is clearly a better choice if you

> want software that can play games.

>

> Several thoughts:

> If you want to be able to do assessments, you can use that as a

> divider between the two. BioExplorer allows you to do the TLC assess

> Pro (downloadable from the brain-trainer.com website free of charge

> including step-by-step instructions). I think that, if you know what

> you are looking at, gives you a huge amount of information aimed at

> developing training plans. As mentioned, the ABCD service on

> the brain-trainer site allows you to gather the data and send it in

> for a relatively inexpensive professional review and training

> plan--and you can request BioExplorer designs specific to that plan.

> Brainmaster offers the Mini-Q (which requires purchase of a pretty

> expensive switchbox and electrode cap) that allows you to gather data

> and then send to a normative database (don't know the cost of that

> processing these days), but you'll still need someone to look at it

> and tell you what the best training approaches would be. I've sent

> brainmaster the information needed for them to put together a file

> that would allow you to do the TLC assess on 2.5 (there's an earlier

> version that can be done on 2.0), but as yet that hasn't happened.

>

> As for tutorial materials, I completely agree with them. BioExplorere

> really doesn't have much of a manual (though we do offer a tutorial

> file on the brain-trainer site), and BrainMaster has hundreds of

> pages. It's up to you to decide which is worse. Many folks who get

> started with NF find the huge manual about as difficult to make sense

> of as no manual at all.

>

> Brainmaster does come with a whole batch of preset protocols, so if

> you know what you want to do, chances are that you will be able to

> find one that does it. On the other hand, we offer a package of

> bioExplorer designs with aboout 35 presets that do more or less the

> same thing. Buying BioExplorer with the designs and the tutorial on

> the BrainTrainer site costs, I think, about $535. Buying Brainmaster

> 2.5 from scratch will cost you $1495 (I don't think that includes the

> 2.5 software or any of the software add-ons). Be aware that, as a

> home trainer, you may have difficulty using or changing protocols,

> since BrainMaster locks the unit unless you buy the clinicial version

> (which you can't do without a license). I would say, if you want

> games, 2.5 is far ahead of BioExplorer, since there are 4 very good

> ones, compared to a very limited (so far) set for BioExplorer.

>

> I think you will find that there is a learning curve on either of the

> software packages. One of the benefits of BE over BM software is that

> once you learn it, you have many options of hardware that all use the

> same software package. Sounds like a small thing now, but one of the

> things that happens to very many people who start in this field is

> that they buy second or third pieces of equipment.

>

> One of the questions you might want to consider is whether BrainMaster

> is the best hardware option. For about the same price you can get a

> Pendant, which is wireless (doesn't cable to the computer),

> Bioexplorer with the design package, and active EEG electrodes. That

> is technically an equal or superior system, very easy to transport,

> and requires no add-ons to be able to train with DVD's, great range of

> MIDI sounds, etc.

>

> Hope this is helpful.

>

> Pete

>

>>

>> From: " anglo.amalgamated " <anglo.amalgamated@...>

>> Date: 2006/04/20 Thu AM 04:56:10 EDT

>>

>> Subject: BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

>>

>> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let

> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.

> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.

> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has

> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make

> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to

> buy in BioExplorer).

>

> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

> charges extra for these.

> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so

> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting

> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free

> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and

> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>

> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a

> system is, in operating that counts.

>

> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you

> think.

> Thanks,

> Anglo.Amalgamated

>

April 20, 2006

:

Who makes the photo stim unit for BE?

Mark

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

>>

>> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let

> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.

> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.

> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has

> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make

> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to

> buy in BioExplorer).

>

> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

> charges extra for these.

> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so

> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting

> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free

> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and

> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>

> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a

> system is, in operating that counts.

>

> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you

> think.

> Thanks,

> Anglo.Amalgamated

>

April 20, 2006

Mark,

The Photo Stim unit is made by Rocatti. Last I checked it was

about $300. You have to supply your own glasses,.

I have been using it far a few months now and find it quite powerful.

I also have a Roshi 2+ which I continue to use.

I have been using the Photo Stim to enhance alpha synchrony and alpha

theta training.

I have also developed a design template that gives you the ability to

use a series of offsets that is somewhat Roshi like (I do not know

Chuck's algorithm so this is my own take on that style of

disentrainment). With the click of a button you can switch to additive

mode which allows you to add an offset to dominant frequency much like

Len Ochs old Flexyxx (question of spelling her) system.

Changing the offset parameters (button toggle or changing the amount

of offset) can be done on the fly during session.

On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:03 AM, Mark Waller wrote:

>

> :

>

> Who makes the photo stim unit for BE?

>

> Mark

>

> BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

>>>

>>> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let

>> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.

>> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.

>> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has

>> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make

>> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to

>> buy in BioExplorer).

>>

>> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

>> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

>> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

>> charges extra for these.

>> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so

>> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting

>> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free

>> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

>> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and

>> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>>

>> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a

>> system is, in operating that counts.

>>

>> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you

>> think.

>> Thanks,

>> Anglo.Amalgamated

>>

April 20, 2006

Thanks :

What glasses are compatible?

Mark Waller, Ph.D. LMFT

BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

>>>

>>> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let

>> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.

>> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.

>> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has

>> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make

>> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to

>> buy in BioExplorer).

>>

>> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

>> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

>> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

>> charges extra for these.

>> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so

>> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting

>> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free

>> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

>> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and

>> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>>

>> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a

>> system is, in operating that counts.

>>

>> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you

>> think.

>> Thanks,

>> Anglo.Amalgamated

>>

April 20, 2006

Mark,

This unit uses common ground polarity. They can be had from

photosonix among other spots.

If you already have common power glasses for another avs unit an

adaptor that will allow the use of those glasses with the photo stim

is available for around $30. It used to be available from tools for

wellness. I have a reference to the url where it is now available

somewhere. If you are interested I will search it out for you

On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Mark Waller wrote:

> Thanks :

>

> What glasses are compatible?

>

> Mark Waller, Ph.D. LMFT

>

> BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5 software???

>>>>

>>>> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs let

>>> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and why.

>>> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal training.

>>> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5 software has

>>> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they make

>>> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they have to

>>> buy in BioExplorer).

>>>

>>> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

>>> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

>>> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

>>> charges extra for these.

>>> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training CD so

>>> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the setting

>>> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their free

>>> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

>>> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly and

>>> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>>>

>>> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and comprehensive a

>>> system is, in operating that counts.

>>>

>>> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what you

>>> think.

>>> Thanks,

>>> Anglo.Amalgamated

>>>

April 20, 2006

I have used both systems (although not the Bmr 2.5 version). There is

always a learning curve. If you go to Brainmaster there are several

licenses to purchase. DVDs and AVI use is extra. The new software

offers many newer features but nothing that Bioex does not do now. If

you go via Bioex it makers sense to purchase Pete's designs. Unless

you have a lot of time, he has developed simple straightforward

designs. that being said, if you're serious about training yourself,

you should get someone to do an evaluation of your own EEG, either

via Pete's system or a formal qEEG. Just training things out of the

box is at the very least a slow way to go about it. By the time

you've done all this, the two systems probably are equivalent. I lean

toward the Bioex because i resent paying extra for every damn thing I

need. But the new 2.5 software, especially allowing Q-driven

training ,is very tempting.

Basically my advice is get an evaluation and go from there.

On Apr 20, 2006, at 7:24 AM, anglo.amalgamated wrote:

> Thanks for your reply but it dosent really answer my question or

> address it. By peas in a pod are you saying they are all the same.

> As far as I have been able to ascertain there are differences

> between these two programs, some of which I described in my post.

>

> I need someone who is familiar with working with these two

> programmes, to tell me their preference and why. It isnt going to be

> difinitive, but it will be very helpful.

> Thanks

>

>>

>> Just to clarify: current EEG equipment are peas in a pod. This a

> mature field.

>>

>> GSR, HEG, etc are extra depending upon your needs.

>>

>> ~ A

>> DSU

>>

>> BioExplorer or Brainmaster 2.5

> software???

>>

>> Please could someone who has experience of both these programs

> let

>> me know which in their opinion is the better of the two and

> why.

>> I dont need it for any clinical use, just for personal

> training.

>> I have been advised by Bmster themselves that their 2.5

> software has

>> now overtaken BioExplorer- they tell me they sell both, they

> make

>> the same money on each, so thats impartial advice (but they

> have to

>> buy in BioExplorer).

>>

>> AS I see it- it works out almost exactly the same to buy the

>> Brainmaster hardware with either software.

>> However BioExplorer includes AVI and DVD whereas the Bmstr2.5

>> charges extra for these.

>> They tell me that BioExplorer comes with no manual or training

> CD so

>> and that the learning curve is difficult because all of the

> setting

>> up is manual with Bio so with no real tutorials (I tried their

> free

>> trial- tutorials- and they are not laden with information).

>> Whereas Bmstr tell me that theirs is far more user friendly

> and

>> there is a CD rom tutorial included.

>>

>> However in the final anaysis its how flexible and

> comprehensive a

>> system is, in operating that counts.

>>

>> So anyone who has experience of both- please let me know what

> you

>> think.

>> Thanks,

>> Anglo.Amalgamated

>>

April 21, 2006

Hi Anglo.amalgamated,

Your question is not as easy to answer as you might think. Preferences

for equipment and software depend on a variety of factors based on

needs, education and experience, and personal preference.

I'm a hometrainer and have used the older Brainmaster software and

Bioexplorer. So, I can't really speak to the newest Brainmaster

software, but I can tell you about my experiences.

I found both the Brainmaster software and Bioexplorer to be effective.

That's the bottom line, isn't it? We are all doing neurofeedback to

effect change, and both types of software do that very nicely. Both

are easy to use. Children like working with games better, which

Brainmaster has, (but even without games, I'm able to keep children

engaged in the training), and with Bioexplorer, you can use DVDs,

which are also attractive to kids.

If you want to use Bioexplorer and are not inclined to create your own

designs from the ground up, then you'd want to buy some packaged

designs from Pete Van Deusen or . They're easy to use and

will get you training from day one.

To transition to another, but related, topic, you won't be able to get

started with neurofeedback until you know what and where to train.

That involves taking some workshops or working closely with a

clinician. If you want to take the workshop route, which I recommend,

you'd want to look at the available courses at brain-trainer.com.

Good luck!

Jane

April 21, 2006

Thank you for your reply. It sounds like I'm actually in the wrong group. I'm not a trainer, I'm the parent of and 8 year old who is undergoing biofeedback (since last summer) I am seeking the equipment for home training. Our doctor prefers and uses brainmaster (EEGER software) in the office. We finally were able to have a TLC test done last week. Financially, we couldn't afford it til now. Plus, finding the right person to do the test was an issue. Gibbs did the TLC for . She consults and receives help and training from . At any rate, my dilemma is that we now know exactly where and what we have to train. Problem is getting the home trainer. It wouldn't make economical sense to rent the system monthly as we will most definitely be home training for years vs. months. Her primary insurance won't cover anything except the lovely meds! I'm so angry. I even added her to my insurance policy this year in the hopes of having dual coverage to make up the difference. Incidentally, my insurance won't cover it either. I have cashed in my 401K to pay for sessions to date. Her doctor has even done a lot of work for free (she truly cares for ) I know the answer is here, at my fingertips, so to speak. I don't have any way of coming up with the funds, so I am seeking anyone willing to donate the money or the set up or anything. I have submitted grant requests and am awaiting responses, but we need it yesterday. Our doctor will buy the set up for us at her cost, so I wouldn't have to pay "retail" She would even donate the money to us if she were able. Any ideas, suggestions, referrals, etc...??? I'm literally begging anyone and everyone I can think of. I will get this. will succeed, no matter what I have to do. thanks for listening and to all who are providing this incredible therapy, you all deserve everything. I can't put in to words what this means and I soooooo want this for any child and/or adult out there. When you don't know what's available, how do you know to ask for it? Now I know and I spread the word any chance I get.