Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Please correct me on this if I am wrong. I thought the Peniston Protocol was at PZ not CZ. After training other "issues" I found I love AT training at PZ. It feels like going on vacation. I didn't like AT at CZ at all. Though it may just be my personal issues. Just my personal opinion. ~ A Do Something Useful A/T protocol Dear All Am re-thinking the peniston protocol. I recently had a client who experienced a very positive "transcendental" experience by increasing alpha at CZ EC. This is the kind of expereince I have been expecting with the alpha/theta protocol but haven't achieved. Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to be higher than alpha in amplitude? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Mark, isn't the purpose of A/T to have theta and alpha of equal amplitude/power? That's how I have understood it. Very pleased with an answer. T > Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to be higher than alpha in amplitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Mark, I don't usually train Alpha Theta when alpha/theta ratios eyes closed in the Parietals are below 1.3 or thereabouts. It's too likely that the client just drops into theta without ever getting into the observer state first. However, I recognize that Gruzelier and Bill , who both know a lot more about A/T than I do, both say they don't worry about this. My goal in the training is to have the amplitude at 7Hz cross over and become greater than that at 8-12 Hz. Most of the time I see people sliding back and forth across that line. I definitely seek to avoid surging amplitudes at 3 Hz to avoid abreaction. As for " transcendent " experience, that's a word with many definitions. I guess I would expect a very good alpha synchrony state to move one in that direction. Alpha theta seems to me to be more about integrating memory than necessarily about transcendence " . Jim Hardt's descriptions of some of his early experiences with alpha include out-of-body experiences and trips toward a bright light, which are not usually described in alpha theta work. pete > > From: " Mark Baddeley " <baddeley@...> > Date: 2006/04/22 Sat AM 01:23:02 EDT > < > > Subject: A/T protocol > > Dear All > Am re-thinking the peniston protocol. I recently had a client who experienced a very positive " transcendental " experience by increasing alpha at CZ EC. This is the kind of expereince I have been expecting with the alpha/theta protocol but haven't achieved. > Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to be higher than alpha in amplitude? > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 My understanding is that one is trying to lower the alpha/theta ratio defined as the ratio of the amplitudes. I usually reward for a ratio of below 0.5 and in some cases start rewarding for 0.75 and over the course of a session lower the reward threshold to 0.5. However following my recent experiences and Pete's comment will probably train to increase alpha for 5 to 10 minutes before adopting the alpha /theta protocol. Mark Re: A/T protocol Mark, isn't the purpose of A/T to have theta and alpha of equal amplitude/power? That's how I have understood it. Very pleased with an answer.T> Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to be higher than alpha in amplitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 I haven't tried it that way so I can't really comment. My design 'rewards' for 2-5 and when 7hz A/T ratio is in the range of 0.95-1.05, with the level of each indicated by different nature sounds. I realize my system results in a lot less reward and may work better for hypersensitive people. I may have written about this before, sorry if I have. > > > Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the > appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to > be higher than alpha in amplitude? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 I am not sure if you have mistyped but one usually inhibits 2-5Hz to prevent abreaction. mark Re: A/T protocol I haven't tried it that way so I can't really comment. My design 'rewards' for 2-5 and when 7hz A/T ratio is in the range of 0.95-1.05, with the level of each indicated by different nature sounds. I realize my system results in a lot less reward and may work better for hypersensitive people.I may have written about this before, sorry if I have.> > > Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the > appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to > be higher than alpha in amplitude?> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Yes that's why I put the " 's " in there. > > I am not sure if you have mistyped but one usually inhibits 2-5Hz to prevent abreaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 , HI! Go with what feels good... I haven't looked it up, but I think most people do the A/T at Pz or Oz...back in Alpha and Theta territory. A/T protocol Dear All Am re-thinking the peniston protocol. I recently had a client who experienced a very positive "transcendental" experience by increasing alpha at CZ EC. This is the kind of expereince I have been expecting with the alpha/theta protocol but haven't achieved. Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to be higher than alpha in amplitude? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 The A/T electrode placement typically is 01, monopolar, referenced to linked ears and a forehead ground with feedback tones of the computer rewarding attainment of clinician-set thresholds of increasing alpha and theta brain wave amplitudes. Other placements might be CZ, PZ or 02. Each clinician seems to have his or her own variations on the theme. Despite the differences in placement, results seem to be consistently positive in treatment of addictions and other symptomology. (in: R. & Abarbanel: Quantitative EEG an Neurofeedback. Aptos, Calofornia: Academic Press 1999. P. 342. I hope that this reference to Abarbanel may be a clue to other pieces of Peniston-Protocol-Information. Dr.Hans Kobler Fachpsychologe für Psychotherapie FSP Limmatstrasse 184 CH 8005 Zürich Tel. 044 272 32 35 Mail relbok1@... A <PetePixxx@...> schrieb: Please correct me on this if I am wrong. I thought the Peniston Protocol was at PZ not CZ. After training other "issues" I found I love AT training at PZ. It feels like going on vacation. I didn't like AT at CZ at all. Though it may just be my personal issues. Just my personal opinion. ~ A Do Something Useful A/T protocol Dear All Am re-thinking the peniston protocol. I recently had a client who experienced a very positive "transcendental" experience by increasing alpha at CZ EC. This is the kind of expereince I have been expecting with the alpha/theta protocol but haven't achieved. Does alpha have to be trained to a certain level before the appropriate theta crossover is obtained or is merely training theta to be higher than alpha in amplitude? Mark Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC!Jetzt Messenger installieren! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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