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Re: IEQ/PIR

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Hi ,

I think you are correct in your statement that by and large, what they see

is not what we see as far as the ill health effects from mold/mold toxins.

But, if they understand the initial onset symptoms of these illnesses, then

landlords, tenants, teachers, etc, will be warned early on and will know to

remove themselves from a potentially hazardous situation. The hazardous

situation

will be rectified.

So is it important that the good folks over on IEQuality intricately

understand every aspect of the devastation that many on this board have

experienced

from long term mold exposure? I don't think it is. What is important is that

they understand that mold/toxins may cause illness.

You have to realize they are not medical professionals. When they give

medical advice, they could open themselves to liability. Also, many times

their

clients that hired them are the ones who own the buildings. They are in a

tough spot. By giving medical advice can sometimes breach their duty to their

clients - which could open their livelyhoods to liability. To give advice or

not give advice can be an ethical violation and a potential liability either

way.

I would love for these guys to be able to give medical warnings like a

medical expert, but I realize they can't always do that. And there is a chance

they will get nailed if they do. And if our ethical remediators are gone

because the liability is too great, then we are all in big trouble. Only the

cheap

charletons will be left to take their places.

So what they appear to me to be doing, is addressing what is reasonably in

the realm of their expertise, which is to clean up the buildings efficiently

and effectively. That doesn't help those of us who are already so sick, but it

can help to assure no others walk in our shoes.

The way we are going to lick this problem is to stay on the medical

community to get the doctors trained how to recognize, diagnose and treat these

illnesses - no matter if they are in their early stages or how severe they have

become.

Sharon

In a message dated 2/22/2006 9:43:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,

erikmoldwarrior@... writes:

Despite the presence of the author of the Personal Impact Rating

scale, the IEQ group as a whole has no real understanding of people

actually living at an advanced Personal Impact Rating.

Studies and statistics using " normal " people as controls do not

reflect the needs of extreme mold responders and testing cannot

address the changing environmental conditions in a viable " real

time " manner.

This should be quite apparent.

Anyone who manifests a response to contaminated articles brought out

of a contaminated house is misguided to believe that their problems

are over because their new environment was " tested " .

At best, even " perfect " testing can only establish a baseline for a

pristine environment. Those of us who have tested ourselves by

temporarily retreating to a pristine environment can attest to the

ease in which contaminated articles may be introduced and alter

our 'comfort level' beyond an acceptible response.

The IEQ list is misguided to beleive that that this phenomenon

exists only in those who have arrived at a PIR that causes them to

complain bitterly about contact with possessions.

There is no reason to conclude that the same " effect " is

nonexistent in those who are at a lesser PIR and cannot point

directly at the source of vague and subclinical complaints.

As we have seen, people at lesser stages of this illness can be

identified by those of us who have been pushed to an extreme yet

they will reject the concept until they become too ill to ignore it

any longer.

It will sound counterproductive that I am expressing a lack of

confidence in the very people who seem most interested in helping

and appear to be the best source of information, but this oversight

means that their concepts would have accomplished little or nothing

for someone at my level of reactivity.

Presumably, anyone else at my PIR would also receive information

that would only be applicable to someone that would be expected to

recover by simply moving and they would be perplexed at their

continued sense of exposure and illness.

I anticipate that the IEQ member asking about studies on attics in

foggy coastal climates will not find information relevant to his

requirements in the IEQ group.

-

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Sharon,

I agree with you. These consultants MUST be brought up to date to the

illnesses certain molds can cause. Coming in and looking at it is one thing.

Then

go home to your family.

Living or working in it is another thing. The results, as I am a good

example is diasterous.Ms. Champion does not live in a bubble as I do or was

consulted to do a job then the hirees never tell the workers there or the people

in their homes.Aree they paid to what they say tp people? Sometimes I wonder.

I would like top give Ms. Champion one week in my shoes. Shed never make

it. Can just go to work, do your job, then go home healthy to your family for

dinner then.

Janet s

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In a message dated 2/22/2006 11:13:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Gingersnap1964@... writes:

Sharon,

I agree with you. These consultants MUST be brought up to date to the

illnesses certain molds can cause. Coming in and looking at it is one thing.

Then

go home to your family.

Living or working in it is another thing. The results, as I am a good

example is diasterous.Ms. Champion does not live in a bubble as I do or was

consulted to do a job then the hirees never tell the workers there or the

people

in their homes.Aree they paid to what they say tp people? Sometimes I wonder.

I would like top give Ms. Champion one week in my shoes. Shed never make

it. Can just go to work, do your job, then go home healthy to your family

for

dinner then.

Janet s

Janet,

That's not quite what I meant to say. I know how frustrating and

devastating it can be not to have the hell you live through understood - or even

acknowledged as legitimate. My point was: Is it important that Ms. Champion

understand that in order for her to do her job? No, it isn't. Ms. Champion is

not

going to buy you a new house or provide you with medical treatment. But

what she and the IEQuality board can do, is work to assure buildings are

properly maintained and remediated. What is important is that she and her

colleagues understand that aspect.

The people on IEQuality are not going to change the lives of those of us who

are already sick. Let them go. What they intricately comprehend about our

illnesses is not relevant in changing the situation. Just the fact that they

comprehend the situation causes illness is enough understanding for them to

do their jobs. Don't expect more of them then what is within their realm of

expertise to solve their portion of a multifacited problem.

Do you look at some of the stuff they discuss? Tyvek building wraps, CO2

gas for remediation. This is the kind of stuff that is important for them to

understand. Illnesses and treatment are important for our doctors. I know it

is frustrating and hurtful, but don't set yourself up for further

frustration. What you want from them is not in their realm of expertise.

Sharon

Sharon

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In a message dated 2/22/2006 12:35:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Gingersnap1964@... writes:

Sharon,

Sorry I came across wrong. She came across strong so I did. This is why I

rarely post as I get in trouble. Thank you for the email.

Janet.

Janet,

You could NEVER be in trouble in my book!!

Sharon

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Janet, Sharon and ,

I feel the need to respond but don't have the time right now. I will

give a more complete response this evening. ITMT, I agree with your

general assessment of most of the IEQ group. However, there are a

number of members that have experienced severe exposure and some that

still do. The ones that were affected as severely as this group are,

like you, unable to work. They left the business and don't have the

energy to fight. The ones that recovered enough to work usually

prefer to distance themselves from us " sickies. " Those not affected

will never " get it " until they are. Same pattern here that I found in

trying to hire people to expand my business help severely impacted

people. The industry is slowly making progess and I'll go into more

detail tonight.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

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snk1955@... wrote:

> Hi ,

> You have to realize they are not medical professionals. When

they give medical advice, they could open themselves to liability.

Also, many times their clients that hired them are the ones who own

the buildings. They are in a tough spot. By giving medical advice

can sometimes breach their duty to their clients - which could open

their livelyhoods to liability. To give advice or not give advice

can be an ethical violation and a potential liability either

> way.

Yes. I do realize this.

Which is why I don't give advice by telling people what to do, and

act so " noncommital " in saying " take it or leave it, as you wish " .

I only state the situation and allow people to decide for themselves.

It is amazing how often people will decide to take advice that

doesn't match their PIR in favor of " mold testing " and

recommendations directed at someone who are somewhat inconvenienced

by mold instead crawling out to sleep in their car, just hoping to

survive the night.

It's pretty mind boggling to lead someone into a mold exposure

asking " There. How do you feel? " and later have them say " I really

thought you were on to something, because I could feel it for

myself, but my doctor says that what you describe is impossible,

so.... "

So they continue to suffer by listening to the wrong people.

-

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In a message dated 2/22/2006 2:03:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,

snk1955@... writes:

>

> In a message dated 2/22/2006 12:35:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> Gingersnap1964@... writes:

>

> Sharon,

> Sorry I came across wrong. She came across strong so I did. This is why I

> rarely post as I get in trouble. Thank you for the email.

> Janet.

>

>

> Janet,

>

> You could NEVER be in trouble in my book!!

>

> Sharon

>

>

Thank you Sharon. Hugs and God Bless,

Janet

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