Re: Another question on training at fz/pz

[Guest guest]

Jane, I frequently train kids on FZ theta inhibit only with very good results. I am not sure from you post-- did you do this with your son and his beta increased to the level where he became angry -- or were you just trying to head of this potential problem by using the 2 - 35 squash? Can you provide more info?

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-------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi all, > > Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if > there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta. > > A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz, > referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming > angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest > pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing > beta to increase and that could account for the anger. > > > If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing > that beta might again increase? I've thought that > setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow > beta to increase. > > Any thoughts from fellow trainers out there? > > Jane > > > > __________________________________ > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase. > > >

[Guest guest]

Jane,

are you doing this EO? if so, you can instruct to keep the whole band low

(watch the spectrogram and keep all the 'towers' low.) Pair with some

calming breathing.

It's not necessarily that he beta is actually increasing, but it's percent

of the power is increasing if you inhibit the theta.

Another question on training at fz/pz

>

> Hi all,

>

> Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if

> there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta.

>

> A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz,

> referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming

> angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest

> pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing

> beta to increase and that could account for the anger.

>

>

> If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing

> that beta might again increase? I've thought that

> setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow

> beta to increase.

>

> Any thoughts from fellow trainers out there?

>

> Jane

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

> http://farechase.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

~

Hope you don't mind me responding to your question.

There had been some discussion amongst a few of us about training FzPz and some of reactions contradicted what one might expect to happen, like higher levels of everything at FZ and beta not being that much of an issue and yet the full squash was not pleasant but the beta inhibit was. Also when one would think the beta inhibit would be the ticket it was not pleasant and the full squash was the answer. So .....I think we talked it over and one of the possible options was she might try a full squash in hopes that the beta percent would not increase and become a problem. Another reason is because most of the training she has done has been squashes, interhemispheric, (Sue Othmer style for stabilizing).

~

Re: Another question on training at fz/pz

Jane, I frequently train kids on FZ theta inhibit only with very good results. I am not sure from you post-- did you do this with your son and his beta increased to the level where he became angry -- or were you just trying to head of this potential problem by using the 2 - 35 squash? Can you provide more info?

This email and any attachments may contain confidential information and it is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you should destroy this message and notify the sender by reply email. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction or transmission of this email is strictly prohibited.

-------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi all, > > Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if > there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta. > > A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz, > referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming > angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest > pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing > beta to increase and that could account for the anger. > > > If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing > that beta might again increase? I've thought that > setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow > beta to increase. > > Any thoughts from fellow trainers out there? > > Jane > > > > __________________________________ > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase. > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi and ,

Thanks for your responses. I decided to try training my son at fz/pz

because he so clearly has the hot cingulate issues on Amen's

checklist.

We hadn't done any training for about 6 months after many, many

sessions using Sue Othmer's interhemispheric protocols that work so

well for bipolar disorder.

My son is incredibly stable after all this neurofeedback, but still

has some remaining issues. His TLC assessment indicates several

protocols that might be beneficial. So, I decided that I'll try a few

and begin training him again for a few months.

When we tried the 2-35 squash at fz/pz, after about 5 minutes, he said

he was beginning to feel angry. He's not a very good reporter, so that

he'd say anything at all indicates that he must have really, really

noticed it. I stopped the training, but would like to try it again,

this time a little more carefully.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding !

--Warmly, This email and any attachments may contain confidential information and it is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you should destroy this message and notify the sender by reply email. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction or transmission of this email is strictly prohibited.

--------- Re: Another question on training at fz/pz

Jane, I frequently train kids on FZ theta inhibit only with very good results. I am not sure from you post-- did you do this with your son and his beta increased to the level where he became angry -- or were you just trying to head of this potential problem by using the 2 - 35 squash? Can you provide more info?

This email and any attachments may contain confidential information and it is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you should destroy this message and notify the sender by reply email. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction or transmission of this email is strictly prohibited.

-------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi all, > > Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if > there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta. > > A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz, > referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming > angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest > pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing > beta to increase and that could account for the anger. > > > If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing > that beta might again increase? I've thought that > setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow > beta to increase. > > Any thoughts from fellow trainers out there? > > Jane > > > > __________________________________ > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase. > > >

[Guest guest]

Jane,

A windowed squash, like you are suggesting, may work better than a squash.

Pete

>

> From: Jane Gurin <doglover80590@...>

> Date: 2005/11/10 Thu AM 08:56:06 EST

>

> Subject: Another question on training at fz/pz

>

>

Van Deusen

http://www.brain-trainer.com

16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157

305/251-0337 or (cellular) 305/321-1595

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

IMHE I've tried with a 17 y.o. OCD girl Fz Alpha up, Theta & HiBeta down x 15 minutes, and then I finalize the training with T3-T4 x 10 more minutes. After 10 sessions she started to became very controlled, no more compulsive behaviors, her mother was amazed by the results, so do I, so maybe you should try this.

This experience was like two years ago, working under a Psychiatrist center, right now, the only thing that I probably would change is to select Beta from 15 to 38 Hz to inhibit instead of 23-38 Hz.

Hope this can help your son to feels better.

Regards,

JR Duncan <karenduncan@...> wrote:

~

Hope you don't mind me responding to your question.

There had been some discussion amongst a few of us about training FzPz and some of reactions contradicted what one might expect to happen, like higher levels of everything at FZ and beta not being that much of an issue and yet the full squash was not pleasant but the beta inhibit was. Also when one would think the beta inhibit would be the ticket it was not pleasant and the full squash was the answer. So .....I think we talked it over and one of the possible options was she might try a full squash in hopes that the beta percent would not increase and become a problem. Another reason is because most of the training she has done has been squashes, interhemispheric, (Sue Othmer style for stabilizing).

~

Re: Another question on training at fz/pz

Jane, I frequently train kids on FZ theta inhibit only with very good results. I am not sure from you post-- did you do this with your son and his beta increased to the level where he became angry -- or were you just trying to head of this potential problem by using the 2 - 35 squash? Can you provide more info?

This email and any attachments may contain confidential information and it is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you should destroy this message and notify the sender by reply email. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction or transmission of this email is strictly prohibited.

-------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi all, > > Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if > there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta. > > A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz, > referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming > angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest > pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing > beta to increase and that could account for the anger. > > > If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing > that beta might again increase? I've thought that > setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow > beta to increase. > > Any thoughts from fellow trainers out there? > > Jane > > > >

__________________________________ > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase. > > >

[Guest guest]

Jane,

When you train a bipolar squash (as in Fz/Pz) you must remember that you are

really training down the difference between the two sites--NOT necessarily the

amplitude at either site. Ordinarily we might expect there to be a fairly large

difference in alpha between a frontal and parietal site, so your training could

easily have reduced the parietal alpha. Or, if there were a lot more beta in

front, you might have raised beta parietally. I'd be more inclined to train Fz

against a linked-ear reference. You can do that by plugging ear electrodes from

the two sides into the inputs on a jumper, then plugging only one of the outputs

into the reference in channel 1. That way you'll be focusing your training only

on Fz and be likely to train down amplitude.

Pete

>

> From: Jane Gurin <doglover80590@...>

> Date: 2005/11/10 Thu AM 08:56:06 EST

>

> Subject: Another question on training at fz/pz

>

> Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if

there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta.

A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz,

referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming

angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest

pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing

beta to increase and that could account for the anger.

If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing

that beta might again increase? I've thought that

setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow

beta to increase.

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete,

I have the Brainquiry PET with ActiveElectrodes, If I have been doing

a t3/t4 2 Ch Squish is that only training down the difference between

the two sites ? or do the ActiveElectrodes work differently ?

Thanks !

>

> Jane,

>

> When you train a bipolar squash (as in Fz/Pz) you must remember

that you are really training down the difference between the two

sites--NOT necessarily the amplitude at either site. Ordinarily we

might expect there to be a fairly large difference in alpha between a

frontal and parietal site, so your training could easily have reduced

the parietal alpha. Or, if there were a lot more beta in front, you

might have raised beta parietally. I'd be more inclined to train Fz

against a linked-ear reference. You can do that by plugging ear

electrodes from the two sides into the inputs on a jumper, then

plugging only one of the outputs into the reference in channel 1.

That way you'll be focusing your training only on Fz and be likely to

train down amplitude.

>

> Pete

>

> >

> > From: Jane Gurin <doglover80590@y...>

> > Date: 2005/11/10 Thu AM 08:56:06 EST

> >

> > Subject: Another question on training at fz/pz

> >

> > Pete, you say to train whatever is highest at fz if

> there is a blocking issue. For my son, that's theta.

>

> A few weeks ago, I tried at 2-35 squash on him at fz,

> referenced to pz. He said he felt he was becoming

> angry. suggested that, as theta was the highest

> pole in the tent, that the 2-35 squash was allowing

> beta to increase and that could account for the anger.

>

>

> If I train only theta down, wouldn't I be chancing

> that beta might again increase? I've thought that

> setting two inhibits (2-14 and 15-35) might not allow

> beta to increase.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pete. I know this stuff seems small to you, but your guidance

really makes a big difference. Thanks again.

>

> The PET is a 2-channel device, though it has only one reference

electrode. If you use both the (blue) active electrodes, you are

using a common reference for both, but it is 2-channel training, just

like using a jumper. The active electrodes simply reduce the

impedance of the connection between the electrode metal and the

client's scalp to around 0. So, with a squish, you are training down

the sum of the two channels in the target frequency band.

>

> Pete

>

> >

> > From: " gskohner1 " <gskohner@p...>

> > Date: 2005/12/04 Sun PM 04:01:28 EST

> >

> > Subject: Re: Another question on training at fz/pz

> >

> > Hi Pete,

> I have the Brainquiry PET with ActiveElectrodes, If I have been

doing

> a t3/t4 2 Ch Squish is that only training down the difference

between

> the two sites ? or do the ActiveElectrodes work differently ?

>

> Thanks !

>