On-Topic, Ethics and Cloning

[Guest guest]

Hi

Speaking of ethics - a reference to ethics is relevant to the

discussion of longevity science. Cloning and brain transplants,

implied by the message below (about staying on topic) are apparently

not ethical to Wayne. Nevertheless, both of these procedures will

happen and human cloning will happen very soon - if it hasn't

happened already. Is this unethical? Why is it unethical?

As an aside, many studies show that the violation of ethics in terms

of harming others and taking away the rights of others - as in the

Bill of Rights - are more likely to be done by religious believers

than secular agnostics or atheists. E.g. Catholic

Hitler. Secularism is usually based upon ethical consideration for others.

In terms of longevity science, what is it that constitutes whether

something is ethical? Obviously if you were to steal a conscious,

healthy human's body parts or body to use or to transplant your brain

into - this would be unethical - it would be murder. But what about

if that person were brain-dead and verifiably so? What if you

cloned your own body? Of course there are a few movies about

that.... Shouldn't whether something is ethical be determined by

whether there is a victim - that someone is hurt or deprived by the action?

I'd say that ethics, as it refers to current events and applies to

longevity, which cloning certainly does, is not off-topic. There are

a number of proposals to use cloning to grow human organs and other

body parts to replace damaged ones to extend lives. Some feel this

is not ethical. Would you accept a liver cloned from your own cells

if you needed a new liver?

At 10:05 AM 4/16/2006, you wrote:

>THAT was staying on topic?

>

> re: " although it may take generations to get

>rid of the last chronically religiously or mystically

>damaged people!

> "

>

>In that grain, science, by itself, would be as much of

>an anathama as the things you say you disdain. Ie, we

>would totally embrace cloning and find a way to

>instill our brains and consciousness into the cloned

>body, hence, live forever. In the meatime, the

>powerful ( and it would have to be those without

>morals or religion) would find ways to take young

>children, kill them and instill their consciousness

>into those bodies.

>Pure science, indeed.

>Woof!

>

>-Wayne

>

>

>

>--- " nospam.rwp@... "

><nospam.rwp@...> wrote:

>

> > I know I have been guilty of waffling too, however

> > the whole point of

> > longevity is to find practical ways to stay alive as

> > long as possible,

> > with the best quality of life possible, anything

> > else is quite frankly

> > irrelevant, particularly mystically inspired

> > predictions of disaster.

> >

> > The following may offend some people:

> >

> > Please do not forget the horror, stupidity,

> > superstition, stagnation,

> > and waste of the Dark Ages and the very costly

> > lessons we hopefully

> > learnt from it, (e.g. the tragic loss of the amazing

> > Library of

> > andria and century's of mostly wasted time); we

> > left this waste

> > behind for very good reasons, as someone said " those

> > who forget the past

> > are doomed to repeat it " . These irrational doom

> > mongers are just a

> > symptom of the rot encouraged by the same religious

> > zealots who caused

> > the Dark Ages and now threaten progress in longevity

> > and other areas of

> > science, political Christians (and political Muslims

> > too, now), because

> > they are death oriented, their anti-birth control

> > (e.g. Africa) and

> > anti-abortion campaigns are not inconsistent either,

> > it is about power,

> > control and sabotage of science, and ironically

> > causes more death and

> > suffering! This is why Dr Dawkins was is so pissed

> > off that he made a

> > short TV series about religion; he put the spot

> > light on political and

> > ignorant religious zealots attempting to divert

> > society from a science

> > based path, to a backward, mystic, Dark Ages like

> > 'Hell on Earth' path,

> > and showed how the mental disease of religious faith

> > and sophisticated

> > fundamentalist religious propaganda are to blame for

> > this! I can see

> > how crippled and cruel society is because of the all

> > pervasive mysticism

> > in this so called secular western society and the

> > excuses it provides

> > politicians to oppress us e.g. what has religion

> > got.to do with the

> > legal system, yet people swear oaths on a bible or

> > to god, really, how

> > relevant to the modern secular society is that!

> >

> > Yes I am an unashamed Atheist, because my mind

> > developed an immunity to

> > religion early in life and later an immunity to most

> > mysticism. I

> > can't help wondering how much more I could have

> > accomplished had I not

> > been exposed to religion and mysticism as a child.

> > It is frustrating to

> > think how many lives are wasted, how much suffering

> > is caused and how

> > much evil is done in the name of this religious and

> > mystic nonsense! I

> > think that the replacement of the mental parasites,

> > religion and

> > mysticism, by non-mystic Humanism, should be as high

> > a priority as the

> > eradication of other dangerous parasites, it could

> > do more for longevity

> > that any amount of medicine, supplements and diet,

> > because the people

> > would no longer be like sheep, although it may take

> > generations to get

> > rid of the last chronically religiously or

> > mystically damaged people!

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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>