Re: Re: Vitamin C and Osteoarthritis

[Guest guest]

Hi:

According to Dr. Cathcart, if you get stomach and intestinal

irritation from doses under 10 gm per day, something is wrong with

your stomach as Vitamin C has a ph of 3.5 ahd hydrochloric acid in

the stomach has a ph of 1, much stronger acid. This may very well be

a part of the syndrome that has created the arthritis.

Of course EsterC and EmergenC and other C chelates do not create

these problems in imbalanced digestive tracts. You may want to try

one of these. I take about 10 gm per day or more (depending on need)

with a combination of powdered ascorbic acid, EsterC and EmergenC. I

find that pure C tablets give me flatulence, but the liquid C does not.

You may need to balance your digestive tract. You might want to

check the probiotic and prebiotic (Inulin) suggestions in recent

posts by Duncan Crow and me.

At 11:23 AM 9/23/2006, you wrote:

>Yikes! There's no way I'm going to try taking higher doses of Vitamin

>C. Any dose that I try taking now causes stomach and intestinal

>irriation for me. I'm laying off completely (and continuing to be

>virtually pain-free). Perhaps in a while I will try a very low daily

>dose of Vitamin C (just to prevent deficiency).

>

>Best regards,

>Celeste

>

> Brown wrote:

> > That's interesting. I read the article you referenced just now and

> > related it to your experience. They do seem to correlate, however, I

> > have a potentially different interpretation. Maybe neither you nor

> > the Guinea Pigs were getting enough vitamin C.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe if you use buffered Vit C instead of Ascobic acid you wouldn't get that

response.

Re: Vitamin C and Osteoarthritis

Yikes! There's no way I'm going to try taking higher doses of Vitamin

C. Any dose that I try taking now causes stomach and intestinal

irriation for me. I'm laying off completely (and continuing to be

virtually pain-free). Perhaps in a while I will try a very low daily

dose of Vitamin C (just to prevent deficiency).

Best regards,

Celeste

Brown wrote:

> That's interesting. I read the article you referenced just now and

> related it to your experience. They do seem to correlate, however, I

> have a potentially different interpretation. Maybe neither you nor

> the Guinea Pigs were getting enough vitamin C.

[Guest guest]

Hi Celeste:

You may want to think about looking at Jim e's MSM+Glucosamine

regimen too at 1/2 cup per day. As you may recall, his knee problem

was from injury as well. MSM has greatly helped my neck, also an

injury with compression fracture and cartilage damage.

At 04:39 PM 9/23/2006, you wrote:

>I don't know who Dr. Cathcart is so I would not know what value his

>opinions might have. My arthritis did not come from a syndrome,

>though. It came from having a knee injury.

>

>My stomach started bothering me when I started cutting carbs, so I've

>gradually been getting back to a better carb ratio in my diet. I've

>been including inulin in my diet daily for several months now. I've

>also done some probiotic regimes. In addition I eat homemade yogurt

>daily and also have Dannon's Activia yogurt about 4 times a week.

>

>I might try the EsterC or EmergenC. I've used EmergenC before, but not

>as a long-term supplement.

>

>Best regards,

>Celeste

>

> Brown wrote:

> > According to Dr. Cathcart, if you get stomach and intestinal

> > irritation from doses under 10 gm per day, something is wrong with

> > your stomach as Vitamin C has a ph of 3.5 ahd hydrochloric acid in

> > the stomach has a ph of 1, much stronger acid. This may very well be

> > a part of the syndrome that has created the arthritis.

> >

> > Of course EsterC and EmergenC and other C chelates do not create

> > these problems in imbalanced digestive tracts. You may want to try

> > one of these. I take about 10 gm per day or more (depending on need)

> > with a combination of powdered ascorbic acid, EsterC and EmergenC. I

> > find that pure C tablets give me flatulence, but the liquid C does not.

> >

> > You may need to balance your digestive tract. You might want to

> > check the probiotic and prebiotic (Inulin) suggestions in recent

> > posts by Duncan Crow and me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Saturday 23 September 2006 12:23 pm, a1thighmaster wrote:

> Yikes! There's no way I'm going to try taking higher doses of Vitamin

> C. Any dose that I try taking now causes stomach and intestinal

> irriation for me. I'm laying off completely (and continuing to be

> virtually pain-free). Perhaps in a while I will try a very low daily

> dose of Vitamin C (just to prevent deficiency).

>

> Best regards,

> Celeste

I believe that the way that that much Vitamin C is delivered is via IV. At

the clinic where I was getting EDTA IV chelation, there was a lady that would

get 120 grams of Vitamin C via IV during the day.

--

Steve - dudescholar2@...

" The brothers flew right through the smoke screen of impossibility. "

-- F. Kettering

[Guest guest]

Vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid rather than calcium ascorbate may

behave differently.

Ascorbic acid raises the acidity of the blood and calcium ascorbate would

lower it. When the acidity is raised the body tries to buffer it by taking

calcium from the blood which gets it from the bones. This may be one reason

why the higher dose C rats saw more bone deterioration assuming that that

study is even reproducible. You could probably just take calcium ascorbate

or calcium with the regular ascorbic acid form to lower the acidity. My

thought anyway.

Dennis

> > > >I began to be concerned that I might need knee surgery again. Last

> > >week I ran out of my Vitamin C and was too busy to get to the>store to

> > >buy more. Interestingly enough, by the weekend my knee pain had

> > >decreased quite noticeably. So I went to Google and found

> >

> ><http://www.webmd.com/content/article/88/99800.htm>http://www.webmd.c

>om/content/article/88/99800.htm

[Guest guest]

Celeste: I have beaten joint arthritis that resulted from a bad

ski/knee injury as well as several other non-injury related sites...

and posted that before. I doubt that my results are exceptional given

the protocol that I followed. No matter whether the basis is the

result of an accident or just bad genes, I am sure that with the proper

supplements in the correct amounts, it is curable. I don't know who

Dr. Cathcart is either, but I do know that supplementation can cure

very bad arthritis if you put your mind to it. I doubt that joint

replacement is ever necessary if you give your body a chance to fix

itself with the right food ingredients. Jim

a1thighmaster wrote:

> I don't know who Dr. Cathcart is so I would not know what value his

> opinions might have. My arthritis did not come from a syndrome,

> though. It came from having a knee injury.

>

> My stomach started bothering me when I started cutting carbs, so I've

> gradually been getting back to a better carb ratio in my diet. I've

> been including inulin in my diet daily for several months now. I've

> also done some probiotic regimes. In addition I eat homemade yogurt

> daily and also have Dannon's Activia yogurt about 4 times a week.

>

> I might try the EsterC or EmergenC. I've used EmergenC before, but not

> as a long-term supplement.

>

> Best regards,

> Celeste

>

> Brown wrote:

> > According to Dr. Cathcart, if you get stomach and intestinal

> > irritation from doses under 10 gm per day, something is wrong with

> > your stomach as Vitamin C has a ph of 3.5 ahd hydrochloric acid in

> > the stomach has a ph of 1, much stronger acid. This may very well be

> > a part of the syndrome that has created the arthritis.

> >

> > Of course EsterC and EmergenC and other C chelates do not create

> > these problems in imbalanced digestive tracts. You may want to try

> > one of these. I take about 10 gm per day or more (depending on need)

> > with a combination of powdered ascorbic acid, EsterC and EmergenC. I

> > find that pure C tablets give me flatulence, but the liquid C does not.

> >

> > You may need to balance your digestive tract. You might want to

> > check the probiotic and prebiotic (Inulin) suggestions in recent

> > posts by Duncan Crow and me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone:

Dr. Cathcart is very famous in the alternative healing

arena. He has published articles and books in many areas and is most

famous for his high-dose IV administration of Vitamin C. I have met

people who were completely healed of AIDS - no residual virus - and

cancer - no remission - with Dr. Cathcart, and a book was published

on the subject. He has worked with thousands of patients and in many

years of practice, kept close to 100% from having to be hospitalized

for any type of infection or degenerative

disease. <http://www.orthomed.com/publications1.html>Here is a list

of his publications. Do an Internet

<http://www.google.com/search?hs=mPM & hl=en & lr= & safe=active & client=firefox-a & rls=\

org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial & q=%22robert+cathcart%22+arthritis & btnG=Search>sea\

rch

on him and you will find numerous articles. Anyone really interested

in alternative healing should really be familiar with the work of

this wonderful man. I just heard him speak, for the nth time, last

Thursday and in his 70s, he's as active and vibrant as ever.

At 01:12 PM 9/24/2006, you wrote:

>Celeste: I have beaten joint arthritis that resulted from a bad

>ski/knee injury as well as several other non-injury related sites...

>and posted that before. I doubt that my results are exceptional given

>the protocol that I followed. No matter whether the basis is the

>result of an accident or just bad genes, I am sure that with the proper

>supplements in the correct amounts, it is curable. I don't know who

>Dr. Cathcart is either, but I do know that supplementation can cure

>very bad arthritis if you put your mind to it. I doubt that joint

>replacement is ever necessary if you give your body a chance to fix

>itself with the right food ingredients. Jim

>

>a1thighmaster wrote:

>

> > I don't know who Dr. Cathcart is so I would not know what value his

> > opinions might have. My arthritis did not come from a syndrome,

> > though. It came from having a knee injury.

> >

> > My stomach started bothering me when I started cutting carbs, so I've

> > gradually been getting back to a better carb ratio in my diet. I've

> > been including inulin in my diet daily for several months now. I've

> > also done some probiotic regimes. In addition I eat homemade yogurt

> > daily and also have Dannon's Activia yogurt about 4 times a week.

> >

> > I might try the EsterC or EmergenC. I've used EmergenC before, but not

> > as a long-term supplement.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Celeste

> >

> > Brown wrote:

> > > According to Dr. Cathcart, if you get stomach and intestinal

> > > irritation from doses under 10 gm per day, something is wrong with

> > > your stomach as Vitamin C has a ph of 3.5 ahd hydrochloric acid in

> > > the stomach has a ph of 1, much stronger acid. This may very well be

> > > a part of the syndrome that has created the arthritis.

> > >

> > > Of course EsterC and EmergenC and other C chelates do not create

> > > these problems in imbalanced digestive tracts. You may want to try

> > > one of these. I take about 10 gm per day or more (depending on need)

> > > with a combination of powdered ascorbic acid, EsterC and EmergenC. I

> > > find that pure C tablets give me flatulence, but the liquid C does not.

> > >

> > > You may need to balance your digestive tract. You might want to

> > > check the probiotic and prebiotic (Inulin) suggestions in recent

> > > posts by Duncan Crow and me.

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone:

Dr. Cathcart is very famous in the alternative healing

arena. He has published articles and books in many areas and is most

famous for his high-dose IV administration of Vitamin C. I have met

people who were completely healed of AIDS - no residual virus - and

cancer - no remission - with Dr. Cathcart, and a book was published

on the subject. He has worked with thousands of patients and in many

years of practice, kept close to 100% from having to be hospitalized

for any type of infection or degenerative

disease. <http://www.orthomed.com/publications1.html>Here is a list

of his publications. Do an Internet

<http://www.google.com/search?hs=mPM & hl=en & lr= & safe=active & client=firefox-a & rls=\

org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial & q=%22robert+cathcart%22+arthritis & btnG=Search>sea\

rch

on him and you will find numerous articles. Anyone really interested

in alternative healing should really be familiar with the work of

this wonderful man. I just heard him speak, for the nth time, last

Thursday and in his 70s, he's as active and vibrant as ever.

At 01:12 PM 9/24/2006, you wrote:

>Celeste: I have beaten joint arthritis that resulted from a bad

>ski/knee injury as well as several other non-injury related sites...

>and posted that before. I doubt that my results are exceptional given

>the protocol that I followed. No matter whether the basis is the

>result of an accident or just bad genes, I am sure that with the proper

>supplements in the correct amounts, it is curable. I don't know who

>Dr. Cathcart is either, but I do know that supplementation can cure

>very bad arthritis if you put your mind to it. I doubt that joint

>replacement is ever necessary if you give your body a chance to fix

>itself with the right food ingredients. Jim

>

>a1thighmaster wrote:

>

> > I don't know who Dr. Cathcart is so I would not know what value his

> > opinions might have. My arthritis did not come from a syndrome,

> > though. It came from having a knee injury.

> >

> > My stomach started bothering me when I started cutting carbs, so I've

> > gradually been getting back to a better carb ratio in my diet. I've

> > been including inulin in my diet daily for several months now. I've

> > also done some probiotic regimes. In addition I eat homemade yogurt

> > daily and also have Dannon's Activia yogurt about 4 times a week.

> >

> > I might try the EsterC or EmergenC. I've used EmergenC before, but not

> > as a long-term supplement.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Celeste

> >

> > Brown wrote:

> > > According to Dr. Cathcart, if you get stomach and intestinal

> > > irritation from doses under 10 gm per day, something is wrong with

> > > your stomach as Vitamin C has a ph of 3.5 ahd hydrochloric acid in

> > > the stomach has a ph of 1, much stronger acid. This may very well be

> > > a part of the syndrome that has created the arthritis.

> > >

> > > Of course EsterC and EmergenC and other C chelates do not create

> > > these problems in imbalanced digestive tracts. You may want to try

> > > one of these. I take about 10 gm per day or more (depending on need)

> > > with a combination of powdered ascorbic acid, EsterC and EmergenC. I

> > > find that pure C tablets give me flatulence, but the liquid C does not.

> > >

> > > You may need to balance your digestive tract. You might want to

> > > check the probiotic and prebiotic (Inulin) suggestions in recent

> > > posts by Duncan Crow and me.

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

In an earlier post, I mentioned that Knox was into the supplement

game. Knox gelatin, which addressed recently, is a very

different product from their NutraJoint... try mixing gelatin with a

cold drink and I predict that you will not be happy with the results. Jim

a1thighmaster wrote:

> You can get Knox NutraJoint plus Glucosamine, Chondroitin & MSM and it

> comes either flavored (orange) or unflavored. It mixes easily with a

> cold drink. I am currently using the unflavored version.

>

> Best regards,

> Celeste

>

> Jim wrote:

> > Knox Gelatin is tough to get down. It does not mix with anything very

> > well and its kind funky, not having the cool, clean taste of MSM.

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 9/29/2006 3:25:31 PM, Jim (huuman60@...) wrote:

> In an earlier post, I mentioned that Knox was into the supplement

> game. Knox gelatin, which addressed recently, is a very

> different product from their NutraJoint... try mixing gelatin with a

> cold drink and I predict that you will not be happy with the results.

> Jim

>

I never had a problem with Knox gelatin

Used to use it in my smoothies.

Chuck

_He's dead, Jim. You take his phaser, I'll get his wallet.

[Guest guest]

Yes, but you're digesting it... So I would imagine it breaks it down

into various aminos and fatty acids, which are probably similar in

proportion to the breakdown of the other types of collagen.

Duncan Crow wrote:

>

> Futher on jello - the right collagen for joints is type II; Jello is

> type III collagen.

>

> ------

>

> http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>

> QUOTE:

>

> Of the nineteen types of collagen, some important ones are:

>

> Type I in bone, fibrocartilage, and established soft connective

> tissues

> Type III in these same tissues as embryonic or reparative forerunners

> (and as a minor mature component)

> Type II in hyaline cartilage

> Type IV in basement membranes

> Type VII to anchor BMs, and

> Type VIII from endothelium lining vessels.

>

> ------

>

> http://www.siumed.edu/~dking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>

> QUOTE:

>

> More than a dozen different varieties of collagen exist in the body,

> usually identified by Roman numerals. These varieties are produced

> by different genes, have somewhat different properties, and occur in

> different locations. The most common forms are listed below. More

> at Biochemistry website.

>

> Type I collagen forms the familiar eosinophilic collagen fibers of

> ordinary fibrous connective tissue (e.g., dermis, tendon, organ

> sheath, fascia).

> Type II collagen reinforces cartilage.

> Type III collagen forms reticular fibers and also occurs in basement

> membranes and bone.

> Type IV collagen occurs in the basal lamina around smooth and

> skeletal muscle fibers.

> Type VII collagen is an interlinking collagen important for formation

> of basement membranes.

>

> ------

>

> I've been taking type II collagen for a couple of years or so

> (Calorad); I don't know if it's doing anything but I expect it is

> bcause the rest of my diet is pretty sufficient.

>

> Duncan Crow

>

> >

> >

> > You might also try taking gelatin with it, so that you have

> adequate

> > material to draw upon for joint regeneration. KNOX is a good

> brand, or

> > just eat Jello. You know you have room for it.

> >

>

>

--

This is your brain on politics:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave:

You probably already know this, but a scientist at Harvard Med School

has a patent on Type II undenatured Collagen, so at least some people

think that getting Type II is important. I have never read his patent,

but Swanson Vitamins did a small report on it when the patent was

issued... and, of course, they sell the product Also, it is a LOT

more expensive than Type III. I took about 100mg/ day it for quite

awhile, but I can't say if it was more or less effective because I was

taking lots more other things along with it that obviously were working.

Regards, Jim

Narby wrote:

> Yes, but you're digesting it... So I would imagine it breaks it down

> into various aminos and fatty acids, which are probably similar in

> proportion to the breakdown of the other types of collagen.

>

> Duncan Crow wrote:

> >

> > Futher on jello - the right collagen for joints is type II; Jello is

> > type III collagen.

> >

> > ------

> >

> > http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>

> > <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>>

> > QUOTE:

> >

> > Of the nineteen types of collagen, some important ones are:

> >

> > Type I in bone, fibrocartilage, and established soft connective

> > tissues

> > Type III in these same tissues as embryonic or reparative forerunners

> > (and as a minor mature component)

> > Type II in hyaline cartilage

> > Type IV in basement membranes

> > Type VII to anchor BMs, and

> > Type VIII from endothelium lining vessels.

> >

> > ------

> >

> > http://www.siumed.edu/~dking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>

> > <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>>

> > QUOTE:

> >

> > More than a dozen different varieties of collagen exist in the body,

> > usually identified by Roman numerals. These varieties are produced

> > by different genes, have somewhat different properties, and occur in

> > different locations. The most common forms are listed below. More

> > at Biochemistry website.

> >

> > Type I collagen forms the familiar eosinophilic collagen fibers of

> > ordinary fibrous connective tissue (e.g., dermis, tendon, organ

> > sheath, fascia).

> > Type II collagen reinforces cartilage.

> > Type III collagen forms reticular fibers and also occurs in basement

> > membranes and bone.

> > Type IV collagen occurs in the basal lamina around smooth and

> > skeletal muscle fibers.

> > Type VII collagen is an interlinking collagen important for formation

> > of basement membranes.

> >

> > ------

> >

> > I've been taking type II collagen for a couple of years or so

> > (Calorad); I don't know if it's doing anything but I expect it is

> > bcause the rest of my diet is pretty sufficient.

> >

> > Duncan Crow

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > You might also try taking gelatin with it, so that you have

> > adequate

> > > material to draw upon for joint regeneration. KNOX is a good

> > brand, or

> > > just eat Jello. You know you have room for it.

> > >

> >

> >

>

> --

> This is your brain on politics:

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

> <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>

>

> Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

>

>

[Guest guest]

....I did not know that..!

However, for the purposes of our discussion, I think it's hard to go

wrong with 5-10gm of glucosamine (preferably non-HCL - not that the HCL

is bad for you, just that the other types are more efficient), and if

your joints are really bad to eat gelatin, eat the cartilage off the

ends of bones, etc.

Jim wrote:

>

> Hi Dave:

> You probably already know this, but a scientist at Harvard Med School

> has a patent on Type II undenatured Collagen, so at least some people

> think that getting Type II is important. I have never read his patent,

> but Swanson Vitamins did a small report on it when the patent was

> issued... and, of course, they sell the product Also, it is a LOT

> more expensive than Type III. I took about 100mg/ day it for quite

> awhile, but I can't say if it was more or less effective because I was

> taking lots more other things along with it that obviously were working.

>

> Regards, Jim

>

> Narby wrote:

>

> > Yes, but you're digesting it... So I would imagine it breaks it down

> > into various aminos and fatty acids, which are probably similar in

> > proportion to the breakdown of the other types of collagen.

> >

> > Duncan Crow wrote:

> > >

> > > Futher on jello - the right collagen for joints is type II; Jello is

> > > type III collagen.

> > >

> > > ------

> > >

> > > http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>

> > <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>>

> > > <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>

> > <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm

> <http://wberesford.hsc.wvu.edu/histolch5.htm>>>

> > > QUOTE:

> > >

> > > Of the nineteen types of collagen, some important ones are:

> > >

> > > Type I in bone, fibrocartilage, and established soft connective

> > > tissues

> > > Type III in these same tissues as embryonic or reparative forerunners

> > > (and as a minor mature component)

> > > Type II in hyaline cartilage

> > > Type IV in basement membranes

> > > Type VII to anchor BMs, and

> > > Type VIII from endothelium lining vessels.

> > >

> > > ------

> > >

> > > http://www.siumed.edu/~dking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>

> > <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>>

> > > <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>

> > <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm

> <http://www.siumed.edu/%7Edking2/intro/ct.htm>>>

> > > QUOTE:

> > >

> > > More than a dozen different varieties of collagen exist in the body,

> > > usually identified by Roman numerals. These varieties are produced

> > > by different genes, have somewhat different properties, and occur in

> > > different locations. The most common forms are listed below. More

> > > at Biochemistry website.

> > >

> > > Type I collagen forms the familiar eosinophilic collagen fibers of

> > > ordinary fibrous connective tissue (e.g., dermis, tendon, organ

> > > sheath, fascia).

> > > Type II collagen reinforces cartilage.

> > > Type III collagen forms reticular fibers and also occurs in basement

> > > membranes and bone.

> > > Type IV collagen occurs in the basal lamina around smooth and

> > > skeletal muscle fibers.

> > > Type VII collagen is an interlinking collagen important for formation

> > > of basement membranes.

> > >

> > > ------

> > >

> > > I've been taking type II collagen for a couple of years or so

> > > (Calorad); I don't know if it's doing anything but I expect it is

> > > bcause the rest of my diet is pretty sufficient.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You might also try taking gelatin with it, so that you have

> > > adequate

> > > > material to draw upon for joint regeneration. KNOX is a good

> > > brand, or

> > > > just eat Jello. You know you have room for it.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > This is your brain on politics:

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

> <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>

> > <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm

> <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>>

> >

> > Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years.

> >

> >