Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... dnarby > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > HGH injections. ; ) Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does provide some added stimulus Duncan Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I haven't take arginine in a long time either, because in years past, each time I would start using it, my throat would sort of start to close off and feel uncomfortable. However, I must admit that I was not taking it in a blend, but taking straight arginine. Does arginine promote herpes growth then? I ask, because I do have a rather dormant herpes virus in my body - it has hardly flared up any more in the last 10 years or so. ~Inga On Jul 13, 2006, at 12:58 PM, Nanette Niece wrote: > I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the use > of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result of > dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hi: I've tried about 30 different secretagogues. Each and every one whether based on primary amino acids such as L-arginine or L-ornithine or proprietary substances all gave me adverse sinus allergies within about a week. My doctor couldn't figure it out. With the cost of high quality (Chinese) injectable rHgh now down at less than $2.50 per IU, it is cheaper to inject real rHgH than to use many of the secretagogues, especially if one considers the cost on a per IU basis. Many are not very effective at all and none is nearly as effective as 1 IU per day, the minimum amount recommended for bringing IGF-1 to near youthful levels. At 12:58 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@... dnarby > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > HGH injections. ; ) > >Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > >I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're >using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows >substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and >I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, >walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm >not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd >averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does >provide some added stimulus > >Duncan Crow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 , where can one get some of that cheap Chinese hgh? Re: Re: Rejuvenation Hi: I've tried about 30 different secretagogues. Each and every one whether based on primary amino acids such as L-arginine or L-ornithine or proprietary substances all gave me adverse sinus allergies within about a week. My doctor couldn't figure it out. With the cost of high quality (Chinese) injectable rHgh now down at less than $2.50 per IU, it is cheaper to inject real rHgH than to use many of the secretagogues, especially if one considers the cost on a per IU basis. Many are not very effective at all and none is nearly as effective as 1 IU per day, the minimum amount recommended for bringing IGF-1 to near youthful levels. At 12:58 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@... dnarby > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > HGH injections. ; ) > >Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > >I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're >using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows >substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and >I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, >walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm >not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd >averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does >provide some added stimulus > >Duncan Crow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ornithine (I think) will cause some release... Neither is as good as weight training though. Nanette Niece wrote: > > I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the use > of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result of > dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> > dnarby > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > HGH injections. ; ) > > Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > > I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're > using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows > substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and > I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, > walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm > not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd > averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does > provide some added stimulus > > Duncan Crow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Personally, I'm going to wait until late in life to try that (if at all). I'd rather if there were unexpected side effects that it happen late in my life. Brown wrote: > > Hi: > > I've tried about 30 different secretagogues. Each and every one > whether based on primary amino acids such as L-arginine or > L-ornithine or proprietary substances all gave me adverse sinus > allergies within about a week. My doctor couldn't figure it > out. With the cost of high quality (Chinese) injectable rHgh now > down at less than $2.50 per IU, it is cheaper to inject real rHgH > than to use many of the secretagogues, especially if one considers > the cost on a per IU basis. Many are not very effective at all and > none is nearly as effective as 1 IU per day, the minimum amount > recommended for bringing IGF-1 to near youthful levels. > > > > At 12:58 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: > > >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the > >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result > >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@... > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> dnarby > > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > > HGH injections. ; ) > > > >Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > > > >I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're > >using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows > >substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and > >I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, > >walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm > >not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd > >averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does > >provide some added stimulus > > > >Duncan Crow > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Hi: I use it every day. There are no side effects as there always were with every secretagogues that I tried. I just feel and look better and have more energy and sex drive. I guess those are side effects, but I want to keep them. Anyone over 40 should consider rHgh and anyone over 50 should consider it strongly. By 60 it ought to be mandatory. Sco\t At 08:57 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: >Personally, I'm going to wait until late in life to try that (if at >all). I'd rather if there were unexpected side effects that it happen >late in my life. > > Brown wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > I've tried about 30 different secretagogues. Each and every one > > whether based on primary amino acids such as L-arginine or > > L-ornithine or proprietary substances all gave me adverse sinus > > allergies within about a week. My doctor couldn't figure it > > out. With the cost of high quality (Chinese) injectable rHgh now > > down at less than $2.50 per IU, it is cheaper to inject real rHgH > > than to use many of the secretagogues, especially if one considers > > the cost on a per IU basis. Many are not very effective at all and > > none is nearly as effective as 1 IU per day, the minimum amount > > recommended for bringing IGF-1 to near youthful levels. > > > > > > > > At 12:58 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: > > > > >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the > > >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > > >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > > >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result > > >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > > > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " > > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com><mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@... > > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> dnarby > > > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > > > HGH injections. ; ) > > > > > >Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > > > > > >I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're > > >using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows > > >substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and > > >I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, > > >walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm > > >not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd > > >averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does > > >provide some added stimulus > > > > > >Duncan Crow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Thanks for your input Dave. I will focus more on the weight training part. Does your method of weight training require resting the worked muscle group for 24 hours, 48 hours or 1 week? I have read articles on each of those rest periods being 'the best' method for muscle growth. Ornithine (I think) will cause some release... Neither is as good as weight training though. Nanette Niece wrote: > > I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the use > of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result of > dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> > dnarby > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > HGH injections. ; ) > > Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > > I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're > using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows > substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and > I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, > walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm > not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd > averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does > provide some added stimulus > > Duncan Crow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Late in life, you need all of the help that you can get. There are way too many " expected " side effects from things that are uncontrollable. To compound them with elective " unexpected " side effects is worse than suicide. The idea at this point is to try & stay even, because things can literally change in a heartbeat. Dave Narby wrote: > Personally, I'm going to wait until late in life to try that (if at > all). I'd rather if there were unexpected side effects that it happen > late in my life. > > Brown wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > I've tried about 30 different secretagogues. Each and every one > > whether based on primary amino acids such as L-arginine or > > L-ornithine or proprietary substances all gave me adverse sinus > > allergies within about a week. My doctor couldn't figure it > > out. With the cost of high quality (Chinese) injectable rHgh now > > down at less than $2.50 per IU, it is cheaper to inject real rHgH > > than to use many of the secretagogues, especially if one considers > > the cost on a per IU basis. Many are not very effective at all and > > none is nearly as effective as 1 IU per day, the minimum amount > > recommended for bringing IGF-1 to near youthful levels. > > > > > > > > At 12:58 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: > > > > >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the > > >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > > >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > > >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result > > >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > > > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " > > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com>dnarby@... <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> dnarby > > > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > > > HGH injections. ; ) > > > > > >Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > > > > > >I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're > > >using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows > > >substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and > > >I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, > > >walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm > > >not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd > > >averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does > > >provide some added stimulus > > > > > >Duncan Crow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Hi: These are the two brands I use, GenSci and SIUG. GenSci is readily available and well reviewed on the Internet. I have found the quality and potency of SIUG to be as good or better than GenSci, but it is a newer private labelled brand and not as openly available. You can Google for places to purchase rHgh all over the Internet. You can find it delivered from China for as little as $3-$3.50 per IU. With a prescription in the box shipped to you, customs will not likely confiscate it, but it will take several weeks to arrive. I purchase them from a US based source that I can share with people on an individual basis. I pay $2.90 per IU for Jintropin from GenSci (best rating and general availability) and $2.10 for SIUG - purchased in $1,500 quantities, giving you close to a year's supply at 2 IU per day and nearly 2 years at 1 IU per day. You pay about 18% more per IU for the minimum quantities of 100 IU for GenSci ($3.40 per IU) and 120 IU for SIUG ($2.46 per IU). I do not make money from this, I am mentioning it to save you money should you be interested in using real hgh. In my experience and that of many people I know, using real rHgh is orders of magnitude better than using secretagogues, which at best may give you a small fraction of 1 IU per day increase in Hgh output (and at worst almost nothing) and in my case these all have intolerable side effects. At these prices, the cost per IU is equivalent or less than the best secretagogues per IU delivered and this is measurable and consistent. See the links below. http://www.gensci-china.com/products.htm Here is a somewhat more expensive source on the Internet (I have never bought from them) http://www.jintropindirect.com/ Another company worth considering is Ankebio. I tried to purchase from them directly at $3.00 per IU, but ran into a customs problem and they returned my check, which they don't cash until you acknowledge receipt of the product. A very honest company. If you order from them, be sure to send them a prescription and note for customs. http://www.ankebio.com/maindoc/anke/english/products/ansomone.htm email: " Zhao/AnkeBio " <ankebio@...> At 09:05 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: >Wow !! I tried rhGH through my doctor's office. Had to quit >because it was so expensive at $15.00 per I.U. Can you share your >source with us? > > > > > >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the > > >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use >of > > >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) >using > > >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the >result > > >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Hi: One more thing... If you want FDA approved hgh, you can get it from Ellis Toussier (moderator of Rejuvenation), email him at: Ellis Toussier <etoussier@...> He is extremely kind, good and honest and the delivery is very fast and reliable, plus I love to support him because he does a lot of good helping many people. His prices are higher than Chinese prices because he has to pay high prices for it, it isn't greed at all. You can even combine your purchase by making a trip to Mexico City to visit him and get a no additional cost consultation. He'll share with you how to use it and discuss other health matters with you. I used to buy mine from him, but I just couldn't afford the higher price. But if you want the FDA approved brands, he probably has close to the best price. Write him to ask what his current price is. I think it is $10 or less per IU, a good price by American standards. At 09:05 PM 7/13/2006, you wrote: >Wow !! I tried rhGH through my doctor's office. Had to quit >because it was so expensive at $15.00 per I.U. Can you share your >source with us? > > > > > >I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the > > >use of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use >of > > >L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) >using > > >any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the >result > > >of dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Hi . How long have you been using rHGH? I'm asking b/c I wonder if the energy & sex drive ever wanes from that. Did you change your diet subsequently or concurrently with rHGH? Thanks. Apricot Brown wrote: > Hi: > > I use it every day. There are no side effects as there always were > with every secretagogues that I tried. I just feel and look better > and have more energy and sex drive. I guess those are side effects, > but I want to keep them. Anyone over 40 should consider rHgh and > anyone over 50 should consider it strongly. By 60 it ought to be > mandatory. > > Sco\t > > > > > . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hi: About 2.5 years. I have high energy and sex drive. I didn't change my diet as a result of Hgh, but I tend to favor a low carb, high protein diet more and more to prevent glycosylation and because I feel better. I don't eat red meat. Mainly fish and some eggs and vegetarian sources. I eat lots of green vegs too. I also closely monitor my blood sugar, but am not diabetic. I'm 59 and people think I'm early 40s. At 06:14 PM 7/14/2006, you wrote: >Hi . How long have you been using rHGH? I'm asking b/c I wonder >if the energy & sex drive ever wanes from that. Did you change your >diet subsequently or concurrently with rHGH? Thanks. >Apricot > > Brown wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > I use it every day. There are no side effects as there always were > > with every secretagogues that I tried. I just feel and look better > > and have more energy and sex drive. I guess those are side effects, > > but I want to keep them. Anyone over 40 should consider rHgh and > > anyone over 50 should consider it strongly. By 60 it ought to be > > mandatory. > > > > Sco\t > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 I'm allmost convened to give it a try. How many IU do you take a day? My concerns are price, blood sugar effects, and a past history of a heart attack with 4 stents placed. I'm in my late 40s. -- Steve - dudescholar2@... " Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions. " --Oliver Wendell Holmes On Saturday 15 July 2006 5:06 am, Brown wrote: > Hi: > > About 2.5 years. I have high energy and sex drive. I didn't change > my diet as a result of Hgh, but I tend to favor a low carb, high > protein diet more and more to prevent glycosylation and because I > feel better. I don't eat red meat. Mainly fish and some eggs and > vegetarian sources. I eat lots of green vegs too. I also closely > monitor my blood sugar, but am not diabetic. I'm 59 and people think > I'm early 40s. > > > > At 06:14 PM 7/14/2006, you wrote: > >Hi . How long have you been using rHGH? I'm asking b/c I wonder > >if the energy & sex drive ever wanes from that. Did you change your > >diet subsequently or concurrently with rHGH? Thanks. > >Apricot > > > > Brown wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > > > I use it every day. There are no side effects as there always were > > > with every secretagogues that I tried. I just feel and look better > > > and have more energy and sex drive. I guess those are side effects, > > > but I want to keep them. Anyone over 40 should consider rHgh and > > > anyone over 50 should consider it strongly. By 60 it ought to be > > > mandatory. > > > > > > Sco\t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 I'm giving my muscles six days to recover. I figure one day more than it takes to stop feeling sore. Oh, and YOU GO, GIRL! ; ) Nanette Niece wrote: > > Thanks for your input Dave. I will focus more on the weight training > part. Does your method of weight training require resting the worked > muscle group for 24 hours, 48 hours or 1 week? I have read articles on > each of those rest periods being 'the best' method for muscle growth. > > Ornithine (I think) will cause some release... Neither is as good as > weight training though. > > Nanette Niece wrote: > > > > I would love to have some supplement suggestions that exculde the use > > of L-Arginine. Can other aminos get results without the use of > > L-Arginine? I have had strange reactions (i.e.rash outbreaks) using > > any supplements that included L-Arginine. I suspect its the result of > > dormant herpes virus. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > > > > Posted by: " Dave Narby " dnarby@... > <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> <mailto:dnarby%40gmail.com> > > dnarby > > > Date: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm (PDT) > > > > > > multiple sets on the same muscle group - followed by adequate rest - > > > so as to initiate muscle failure with a minimum of reps) > > > > > > I'll get back to you in 20 years or so as to whether I think I need > > > HGH injections. ; ) > > > > Thanks for the workout tip, Dave. > > > > I agree on HGH injections not being really necessary since you're > > using amino acids. Even a person in their thirties shows > > substantial gains from an amino acids program. I'm over 50 and > > I'm in better shape than I was 10 years ago with SomaLife gHP, > > walking and generally being active is my only exercise when I'm > > not sitting here at my desk. Oh, and a high-revving crowd > > averaging 20-something at my two karaoke shows a week does > > provide some added stimulus > > > > Duncan Crow > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hi: It is true that some reports with higher doses of Hgh have shown a reduction in insulin sensitivity or output, but it doesn't apparently happen with everybody and not at 1-2 IU per day to any large extent, I believe. The reports I've read are all with higher doses. I suggest that everyone over 30 should monitor blood glucose anyway, whether you're taking Hgh or not. Keep it between 70-90 mg/dl as much as possible. Get a glucose meter and test your glucose after various types of meals. You'll see if you glucose is going a lot higher about 1/2 hour after a meal. If it is, you may want to supplement with such things as Gymnema Sylvestre, Cinnulin, Bitter Melon, Chromium, Zinc, and/or Ginseng Berry and lower your carb amount and index. Numerous vitamin companies like Swansonvitamins.com and lef.org sell formulas with these ingredients. Potatoes and sugar are especially bad, but let the glucose meter tell you what is bad for you specifically. I believe that anyone interested in longevity should have and frequently use a glucose meter. Did you consider EDTA chelation for your heart condition - for clearing your arteries? Also, control your homocysteine with TMG, Folate and B12 etc. Homocysteine and inflammation are the real artery cloggers, not cholesterol. Cholesterol is just a sidekick. Hgh should improve your heart condition. http://www.lef.org/protocols/heart_circulatory/homocysteine_reduction_01.htm I take 1.5 IU per day. Cost is $110 per month at the Chinese prices. I just skip one nice restaurant meal a month and it pays for it. For a lot of additional information from a man I consider to be fairly expert at Hgh experience, Ellis Toussier, see: http://www.rajeun.net/ At 07:46 AM 7/15/2006, you wrote: >I'm allmost convened to give it a try. How many IU do you take a day? > >My concerns are price, blood sugar effects, and a past history of a heart >attack with 4 stents placed. I'm in my late 40s. > >-- > >Steve - <mailto:dudescholar2%40basicmail.net>dudescholar2@... > > " Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original >dimensions. " >--Oliver Wendell Holmes > >On Saturday 15 July 2006 5:06 am, Brown wrote: > > Hi: > > > > About 2.5 years. I have high energy and sex drive. I didn't change > > my diet as a result of Hgh, but I tend to favor a low carb, high > > protein diet more and more to prevent glycosylation and because I > > feel better. I don't eat red meat. Mainly fish and some eggs and > > vegetarian sources. I eat lots of green vegs too. I also closely > > monitor my blood sugar, but am not diabetic. I'm 59 and people think > > I'm early 40s. > > > > > > > > At 06:14 PM 7/14/2006, you wrote: > > >Hi . How long have you been using rHGH? I'm asking b/c I wonder > > >if the energy & sex drive ever wanes from that. Did you change your > > >diet subsequently or concurrently with rHGH? Thanks. > > >Apricot > > > > > > Brown wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > > > > > I use it every day. There are no side effects as there always were > > > > with every secretagogues that I tried. I just feel and look better > > > > and have more energy and sex drive. I guess those are side effects, > > > > but I want to keep them. Anyone over 40 should consider rHgh and > > > > anyone over 50 should consider it strongly. By 60 it ought to be > > > > mandatory. > > > > > > > > Sco\t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Celeste, Recent research has show that post workout drinks which include some whole protein work significantly better than carbs alone. It is probably wise to limit the type and quantity of carbs, to only top up muscle glycogen stores, and electrolytes should not be necessary if you are eating a good diet. Just drinking cold water is pretty important too, to rehydrate and cool off. I also read somewhere that stretching does not help much and maybe counter productive for cold muscles, however I find a quick warm up is useful before exercise, if muscles are cold. I think a cool down is really just to keeping the muscles gently moving to encourage waste products to be purged. a1thighmaster wrote: > Six days is an exceptionally long time . . . much longer than > necessary after a typical workout. Recovery can take longer than usual > if you are overtraining or if you are not getting enough rest. Other > things that can reduce post-workout soreness (and thus reduce recovery > time) are: warming up at the beginning of your workout, stretching > during and after your workout, cooling down at the end of your > workout, Rehydrating by drinking a high-GI carbohydrate drink mix > containing sodium and other electrolytes within 30 minutes after your > workout, staying adequately hydrated, employing active rest, varying > the speed and intensity of your workouts, varying the specific > exercises performed, and scheduling regular massage sessions. > > Best regards, > Celeste > > Dave Narby wrote: > >> I'm giving my muscles six days to recover. I figure one day more than >> it takes to stop feeling sore. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Thanks. Keeping one's fasting blood sugar below 90 is easier said than done. It used to be high nineties and sometimes low 100s, but now it has moved to low nineties. As to supplementation, I've got most of those bases covered. I've had 33 treatments of IV EDTA, 30 in a series at one too two per week until I completed 30 and I now get one a month. In addition, I'm going thought a course of PlaqueX (Intravenous Phosphatidyl Choline) http://www.biohealthcenter.com/plaquex.html and when I'm done will continue that at once per month. hs-C-Reactive Protein, an inflammation marker, is very very low for me at 0.25 but homocysteine has been a very hard one to control. I've done more research and tried tons of stuff with limited results. Mine runs 9.0 to 14 and 17.5 at only twice the recommend amounts of B2, B9, TMG, choline, and B12. As an example of some things I've tried, B6 at 1000 mg/day, Folic Acid at 16,000 mcg/day, B12 at 10,000 mcg/day (and 2 mg/week IV with the EDTA), zinc, TMG at 8 grams/day, choline at 4 grams/day, other methyl donors, P5P at 100 mg/day, B2 at 400 mg/day (a few studes noted this was a solution for some) a reduced form of folic acid in case my body wasn't doing that step well, creatine (lowers homocysteine 25% in medline studies), thyroid meds (lowers homocysteine as TSH goes down but mine was already 2.1 - I do want it be at 1.4 but I'm not working on that right now), and a few other things I've since forgotten. I've lowered all of the above to lower quantities since higher was not a solution. I took the trouble of getting folate and B12 blood work and was way above the upper limit so I cut back for that reasoning as well. Perhaps I can eat a diet that restricts methonine but I'm not fond of the idea of going mostly vegetarian. On the down side, Niacin increases my homocysteine but it increases my HDL a lot and most importantly, converts my LDL from small and dense (very bad) to large and fluffy (very good). Small particle LDL is not a good thing and the most likely the reason I had 98% narrowed arteries in the first place. It takes 2.5 grams of B3 to fix this problem and more would be better but right now it's a balancing act. The HGH still interests me so I think I'll get some blood work for it in the next few months to see where I stand. $110/month is a LOT lower than it used to be. I'm familiar with Ellis Toussier and we've exchanged a few emails in the past. -- Steve - dudescholar2@... " Tell the truth and then run. " --Proverb On Saturday 15 July 2006 4:47 pm, Brown wrote: > Hi: > > It is true that some reports with higher doses of Hgh have shown a > reduction in insulin sensitivity or output, but it doesn't apparently > happen with everybody and not at 1-2 IU per day to any large extent, > I believe. The reports I've read are all with higher doses. > > I suggest that everyone over 30 should monitor blood glucose anyway, > whether you're taking Hgh or not. Keep it between 70-90 mg/dl as > much as possible. Get a glucose meter and test your glucose after > various types of meals. You'll see if you glucose is going a lot > higher about 1/2 hour after a meal. If it is, you may want to > supplement with such things as Gymnema Sylvestre, Cinnulin, Bitter > Melon, Chromium, Zinc, and/or Ginseng Berry and lower your carb > amount and index. Numerous vitamin companies like > Swansonvitamins.com and lef.org sell formulas with these > ingredients. Potatoes and sugar are especially bad, but let the > glucose meter tell you what is bad for you specifically. I believe > that anyone interested in longevity should have and frequently use a > glucose meter. > > Did you consider EDTA chelation for your heart condition - for > clearing your arteries? Also, control your homocysteine with TMG, > Folate and B12 etc. Homocysteine and inflammation are the real > artery cloggers, not cholesterol. Cholesterol is just a > sidekick. Hgh should improve your heart condition. > > http://www.lef.org/protocols/heart_circulatory/homocysteine_reduction_01.ht >m > > I take 1.5 IU per day. Cost is $110 per month at the Chinese > prices. I just skip one nice restaurant meal a month and it pays for > it. For a lot of additional information from a man I consider to be > fairly expert at Hgh experience, Ellis Toussier, see: > http://www.rajeun.net/ > > > > At 07:46 AM 7/15/2006, you wrote: > >I'm allmost convened to give it a try. How many IU do you take a day? > > > >My concerns are price, blood sugar effects, and a past history of a heart > >attack with 4 stents placed. I'm in my late 40s. > > > >-- > > > >Steve - <mailto:dudescholar2%40basicmail.net>dudescholar2@... > > > > " Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original > >dimensions. " > >--Oliver Wendell Holmes > > > >On Saturday 15 July 2006 5:06 am, Brown wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > > > About 2.5 years. I have high energy and sex drive. I didn't change > > > my diet as a result of Hgh, but I tend to favor a low carb, high > > > protein diet more and more to prevent glycosylation and because I > > > feel better. I don't eat red meat. Mainly fish and some eggs and > > > vegetarian sources. I eat lots of green vegs too. I also closely > > > monitor my blood sugar, but am not diabetic. I'm 59 and people think > > > I'm early 40s. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:14 PM 7/14/2006, you wrote: > > > >Hi . How long have you been using rHGH? I'm asking b/c I wonder > > > >if the energy & sex drive ever wanes from that. Did you change your > > > >diet subsequently or concurrently with rHGH? Thanks. > > > >Apricot > > > > > > > > Brown wrote: > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > > > > > I use it every day. There are no side effects as there always were > > > > > with every secretagogues that I tried. I just feel and look better > > > > > and have more energy and sex drive. I guess those are side effects, > > > > > but I want to keep them. Anyone over 40 should consider rHgh and > > > > > anyone over 50 should consider it strongly. By 60 it ought to be > > > > > mandatory. > > > > > > > > > > Sco\t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 What do you think of the IV EDTA? Are there measurable results from that? I had it once and my skin was rosy the next day. I perceived improved circulation & I liked it. I very much like Phosphatidyl Choline (brain effects). I don't perceive any effect from phyphatidyl serine, but I've read that I should alternate the serine with choline. Good luck on homocystine. Apricot steve wrote: > Thanks. > > Keeping one's fasting blood sugar below 90 is easier said than done. > It used > to be high nineties and sometimes low 100s, but now it has moved to low > nineties. As to supplementation, I've got most of those bases covered. > > I've had 33 treatments of IV EDTA, 30 in a series at one too two per week > until I completed 30 and I now get one a month. In addition, I'm going > thought a course of PlaqueX (Intravenous Phosphatidyl Choline) > http://www.biohealthcenter.com/plaquex.html > <http://www.biohealthcenter.com/plaquex.html> and when I'm done will > continue > that at once per month. > > hs-C-Reactive Protein, an inflammation marker, is very very low for me > at 0.25 > but homocysteine has been a very hard one to control. I've done more > research and tried tons of stuff with limited results. Mine runs 9.0 > to 14 > and 17.5 at only twice the recommend amounts of B2, B9, TMG, choline, and > B12. As an example of some things I've tried, B6 at 1000 mg/day, Folic > Acid > at 16,000 mcg/day, B12 at 10,000 mcg/day (and 2 mg/week IV with the > EDTA), > zinc, TMG at 8 grams/day, choline at 4 grams/day, other methyl donors, > P5P at > 100 mg/day, B2 at 400 mg/day (a few studes noted this was a solution for > some) a reduced form of folic acid in case my body wasn't doing that step > well, creatine (lowers homocysteine 25% in medline studies), thyroid meds > (lowers homocysteine as TSH goes down but mine was already 2.1 - I do > want it > be at 1.4 but I'm not working on that right now), and a few other > things I've > since forgotten. I've lowered all of the above to lower quantities since > higher was not a solution. I took the trouble of getting folate and B12 > blood work and was way above the upper limit so I cut back for that > reasoning > as well. Perhaps I can eat a diet that restricts methonine but I'm not > fond > of the idea of going mostly vegetarian. On the down side, Niacin > increases > my homocysteine but it increases my HDL a lot and most importantly, > converts > my LDL from small and dense (very bad) to large and fluffy (very good). > Small particle LDL is not a good thing and the most likely the reason > I had > 98% narrowed arteries in the first place. It takes 2.5 grams of B3 to fix > this problem and more would be better but right now it's a balancing act. > > The HGH still interests me so I think I'll get some blood work for it > in the > next few months to see where I stand. $110/month is a LOT lower than > it used > to be. I'm familiar with Ellis Toussier and we've exchanged a few > emails in > the past. > > -- > > Steve - dudescholar2@... <mailto:dudescholar2%40basicmail.net> > > " Tell the truth and then run. " > --Proverb > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 , how can I contact you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hi Steve: Your's was an excellent post, very informative. What was the result of your chelation work in terms of arterial occlusion? Also, Did you try all the supplements TMG, folate, B12, B6, Creatine and any others to control homocysteine simultaneously or separately? From your post it wasn't clear. It seems that the studies I've seen, it is necessary to take a number of these supplements simultaneously to achieve effective homocysteine reduction. A number of well-informed vitamin companies put out homocysteine control formulas as well. It sounds like you have a good control with adequate blood testing on what levels of the various supplements do with your body. I'm also a firm believer from my own experience in the power of niacin/B3 to control the LDL/HDL ratio. How do you measure the " fluff " of LDL? By the way, although I really appreciate and love the work that Ellis Toussier is doing, you won't be able to get Hgh for those low prices through him. It will be a regulated, FDA approved brand though. I used to buy from him, because he is excellent and reliable and I trust him totally, but I couldn't afford it at his prices, even though they are probably at well-under half the US retail price. At 06:04 AM 7/17/2006, you wrote: >What do you think of the IV EDTA? Are there measurable results from >that? I had it once and my skin was rosy the next day. I perceived >improved circulation & I liked it. I very much like Phosphatidyl >Choline (brain effects). I don't perceive any effect from phyphatidyl >serine, but I've read that I should alternate the serine with choline. >Good luck on homocystine. >Apricot > >steve wrote: > > > Thanks. > > > > Keeping one's fasting blood sugar below 90 is easier said than done. > > It used > > to be high nineties and sometimes low 100s, but now it has moved to low > > nineties. As to supplementation, I've got most of those bases covered. > > > > I've had 33 treatments of IV EDTA, 30 in a series at one too two per week > > until I completed 30 and I now get one a month. In addition, I'm going > > thought a course of PlaqueX (Intravenous Phosphatidyl Choline) > > > <http://www.biohealthcenter.com/plaquex.html>http://www.biohealthcenter.com/plaq\ uex.html > > > <http://www.biohealthcenter.com/plaquex.html> and when I'm done will > > continue > > that at once per month. > > > > hs-C-Reactive Protein, an inflammation marker, is very very low for me > > at 0.25 > > but homocysteine has been a very hard one to control. I've done more > > research and tried tons of stuff with limited results. Mine runs 9.0 > > to 14 > > and 17.5 at only twice the recommend amounts of B2, B9, TMG, choline, and > > B12. As an example of some things I've tried, B6 at 1000 mg/day, Folic > > Acid > > at 16,000 mcg/day, B12 at 10,000 mcg/day (and 2 mg/week IV with the > > EDTA), > > zinc, TMG at 8 grams/day, choline at 4 grams/day, other methyl donors, > > P5P at > > 100 mg/day, B2 at 400 mg/day (a few studes noted this was a solution for > > some) a reduced form of folic acid in case my body wasn't doing that step > > well, creatine (lowers homocysteine 25% in medline studies), thyroid meds > > (lowers homocysteine as TSH goes down but mine was already 2.1 - I do > > want it > > be at 1.4 but I'm not working on that right now), and a few other > > things I've > > since forgotten. I've lowered all of the above to lower quantities since > > higher was not a solution. I took the trouble of getting folate and B12 > > blood work and was way above the upper limit so I cut back for that > > reasoning > > as well. Perhaps I can eat a diet that restricts methonine but I'm not > > fond > > of the idea of going mostly vegetarian. On the down side, Niacin > > increases > > my homocysteine but it increases my HDL a lot and most importantly, > > converts > > my LDL from small and dense (very bad) to large and fluffy (very good). > > Small particle LDL is not a good thing and the most likely the reason > > I had > > 98% narrowed arteries in the first place. It takes 2.5 grams of B3 to fix > > this problem and more would be better but right now it's a balancing act. > > > > The HGH still interests me so I think I'll get some blood work for it > > in the > > next few months to see where I stand. $110/month is a LOT lower than > > it used > > to be. I'm familiar with Ellis Toussier and we've exchanged a few > > emails in > > the past. > > > > -- > > > > Steve - > <mailto:dudescholar2%40basicmail.net>dudescholar2@... > <mailto:dudescholar2%40basicmail.net> > > > > " Tell the truth and then run. " > > --Proverb > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Oh, I forgot... Resting heart rate is ~45 BPM in the AM before coffee, etc. a1thighmaster wrote: > > Six days is an exceptionally long time . . . much longer than > necessary after a typical workout. Recovery can take longer than usual > if you are overtraining or if you are not getting enough rest. Other > things that can reduce post-workout soreness (and thus reduce recovery > time) are: warming up at the beginning of your workout, stretching > during and after your workout, cooling down at the end of your > workout, Rehydrating by drinking a high-GI carbohydrate drink mix > containing sodium and other electrolytes within 30 minutes after your > workout, staying adequately hydrated, employing active rest, varying > the speed and intensity of your workouts, varying the specific > exercises performed, and scheduling regular massage sessions. > > Best regards, > Celeste > > Dave Narby wrote: > > I'm giving my muscles six days to recover. I figure one day more than > > it takes to stop feeling sore. > > -- This is your brain on politics: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I've been experimenting with a couple oz of whey protein with a teaspoon of honey pre and post workout. It will take a while before I can comment... nospam.rwp@... wrote: > > > Celeste, > > Recent research has show that post workout drinks which include some > whole protein work significantly better than carbs alone. It is > probably wise to limit the type and quantity of carbs, to only top up > muscle glycogen stores, and electrolytes should not be necessary if you > are eating a good diet. Just drinking cold water is pretty important > too, to rehydrate and cool off. I also read somewhere that stretching > does not help much and maybe counter productive for cold muscles, > however I find a quick warm up is useful before exercise, if muscles are > cold. I think a cool down is really just to keeping the muscles gently > moving to encourage waste products to be purged. > > > > a1thighmaster wrote: > > Six days is an exceptionally long time . . . much longer than > > necessary after a typical workout. Recovery can take longer than usual > > if you are overtraining or if you are not getting enough rest. Other > > things that can reduce post-workout soreness (and thus reduce recovery > > time) are: warming up at the beginning of your workout, stretching > > during and after your workout, cooling down at the end of your > > workout, Rehydrating by drinking a high-GI carbohydrate drink mix > > containing sodium and other electrolytes within 30 minutes after your > > workout, staying adequately hydrated, employing active rest, varying > > the speed and intensity of your workouts, varying the specific > > exercises performed, and scheduling regular massage sessions. > > > > Best regards, > > Celeste > > > > Dave Narby wrote: > > > >> I'm giving my muscles six days to recover. I figure one day more than > >> it takes to stop feeling sore. > >> > > -- This is your brain on politics: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Hi: Whey is really great. There is a lot of research about its health benefits for exercise. At 05:13 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: >I've been experimenting with a couple oz of whey protein with a teaspoon >of honey pre and post workout. It will take a while before I can comment... > ><mailto:nospam.rwp%40dsl.pipex.com>nospam.rwp@... wrote: > > > > > > Celeste, > > > > Recent research has show that post workout drinks which include some > > whole protein work significantly better than carbs alone. It is > > probably wise to limit the type and quantity of carbs, to only top up > > muscle glycogen stores, and electrolytes should not be necessary if you > > are eating a good diet. Just drinking cold water is pretty important > > too, to rehydrate and cool off. I also read somewhere that stretching > > does not help much and maybe counter productive for cold muscles, > > however I find a quick warm up is useful before exercise, if muscles are > > cold. I think a cool down is really just to keeping the muscles gently > > moving to encourage waste products to be purged. > > > > > > > > a1thighmaster wrote: > > > Six days is an exceptionally long time . . . much longer than > > > necessary after a typical workout. Recovery can take longer than usual > > > if you are overtraining or if you are not getting enough rest. Other > > > things that can reduce post-workout soreness (and thus reduce recovery > > > time) are: warming up at the beginning of your workout, stretching > > > during and after your workout, cooling down at the end of your > > > workout, Rehydrating by drinking a high-GI carbohydrate drink mix > > > containing sodium and other electrolytes within 30 minutes after your > > > workout, staying adequately hydrated, employing active rest, varying > > > the speed and intensity of your workouts, varying the specific > > > exercises performed, and scheduling regular massage sessions. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Celeste > > > > > > Dave Narby wrote: > > > > > >> I'm giving my muscles six days to recover. I figure one day more than > > >> it takes to stop feeling sore. > > >> > > > > > >-- >This is your brain on politics: > ><http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm>http://www.scien\ cedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm > >Yep! You've been an annoying zombie all these years. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 On Monday 17 July 2006 3:01 pm, Duncan Crow wrote: > > steve <dudescholar2@...> wrote: > > ... > > > Small particle LDL is not a good thing and the most likely the > > reason I had > > 98% narrowed arteries in the first place. > > Steve, have you tried the fibrinolytic enzymes to reduce your > blockages? They dissolve, primarily, as fibrin and dead cells in them > are broken down. Several are part of my daily regement. I'm not so sure that they reverse and/or reduce blockages but there is reason to " believe " that they assist in preventing and/or eliminating clotings, the major cause of heart attacks. I'd like to see more research being done. > We use BlockBuster All Clear which contains > nattokinase, serrapeptase, Protease and SeaProse as well as lipase > and cellulase; I'm not clear yet on whether the lipase in it will > work as a metabolic enzyme and I'm pretty sure the cellulase does not. > > I guess you're aware of Dr. Matthias Rath's approach to reducing or > eroding plaque; have you considered a glutathione increaser to > prevent the lipid rancidity and the free radical damage cascades that > result from rancidity, glycation and normal living? Many people use > cold-processed whey. I'm taking that. > On the lipids question, food oils in imbalance are free radical and > inflammation-promoting, and blood coagulation, heart attack, stroke > and organ fibrosisis increase wih inflammation. Of course this adds > to an existing health risk and that's why doctors give warfarin. But > all this can be addressed with the right oils and fibrinolytic > enzymes. > > I'm probably singing to the choir here, but it's better than having > these important aspects overlooked or minimized. > > > Duncan Crow -- Steve - dudescholar2@... " It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. " --Voltaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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