Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

[Guest guest]

Hi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner site--what a

melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze

Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages, though,

so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for this

much misused term, " coherence. " Also, I have no need for more nf

software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer (I

already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral frequencies,

but offers little help with training, per se.) So, I wonder if it is

possible to leave the EEG components out of the product, for example.

Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

Greg Alter

roshicorp@... wrote:

> -----Forwarded Message-----

> From: van den Bovenkamp

> Sent: Jun 20, 2005 6:59 AM

> hearttuner

> Subject: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

>

> The new Heart Tuner users forum is a response to the many requests

> from (new) Heart Tuner

> owners willing to hear others' experience, and many others kindly

> willing to share it. This can

> only be helpful to all. We are seeing over and over again that the

> Heart Tuner, especially the

> internal coherence measurement and -training are used in combination

> with existing therapeutic

> practice and experience. Measuring coherence to measure internal

> emotional states creates not

> only valuable information, it is also unique in the sense that

> it would not be served well with a

> mere few one-liners in a user manual.

>

SNIP

[Guest guest]

Greg Alter said:

So, I wonder if it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the product, for example. Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

Wow Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm on.

Now that's a META cross post.

The Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think C2mini) hardware.

I asked if they'd sell just the software, but it was a no go. That was two years ago.

I translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had a chance to work with that version of the software.

I think that anyone who wants to know more on the HeartTuner CONCEPT, they can go to his site(s) for that info.

But the Tech side of things was, at that time... LATENT. I could not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured a constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

That version software as well as the new one have VISION! Great ideas. I just wish they would work in Beta-test longer before going to market at full price, as well as allow testing of their software with present J & J users.

has been very helpful, and I'm no dope regarding setting up software, but I have one colleague here in Brasil who bought the HeartTuner in Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully turned it on. First was Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

Then it was simple software non-recognition.

Then the software was updated. Then her computer. But the software required a release key.

Which took awhile to get. I think she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

Look- I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for the META-post crack), and I agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT that Dan Winter (and to some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has long espoused.

In fact, I believe that with a single change to the BioExplorer interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and put this possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

I don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so instead,

Respectfully request that the HeartCoherence Team post the software SPECS to one of the lists that this message has arrived at.

Thanks,

Machado- Van Deusen

Empower. Employ. Enjoy!

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Greg AlterSent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:47 PM Cc: pROSHI Subject: Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart TunerHi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner site--what a melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages, though, so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for this much misused term, "coherence." Also, I have no need for more nf software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer (I already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral frequencies, but offers little help with training, per se.) Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005

[Guest guest]

Geee, all I did was hit "Reply." Had no idea I had gone "meta." Anyway,

I will be curious to see what Chuck says. BTW, I use the Mini C2

already for LENS and a variant of that same software base also for

Better Breathing Capno Trainer. I assume this software for Heart Tuner

is not by the same folks. The good news is that if they ever get it

really working right, the Mini C2 could run it, at least. I appreciate

the frank comments, for sure.

Now, on the other hand, yet another tweak to the BE interface and we

could have this CEPSTRUM broader spectrum heart frequency

feedback....that would be interesting.

It does inspire me to take a look at the 3D real time graph of the

heart frequency spectrum in CardioPro. Perhaps I just haven't looked at

it with enough knowledge of its potential as feedback, rather than just

analysis.

Greg

CM Van Deusen wrote:

Message

Greg

Alter said:

So,

I wonder if it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the

product, for example.

Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

 

Wow Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm

on.

Now that's a META cross post.

 

The Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think

C2mini) hardware.

I asked if they'd sell just the software, but it

was a no go. That was two years ago.

I translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had

a chance to work with that version of the software.

I think that anyone who wants to know more on

the HeartTuner CONCEPT, they can go to his site(s) for that info.

But the Tech side of things was, at that time...

LATENT.

I could not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured a

constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

 

That version software as well as the new one

have VISION! Great ideas. I just wish they would work in Beta-test

longer before going to market at full price, as well as allow testing

of their software with present J & J users.

 

has been very helpful, and I'm no dope

regarding setting up software, but I have one colleague here in Brasil

who bought the HeartTuner in Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully

turned it on.

First was Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

Then it was simple software non-recognition.

Then the software was updated. Then her

computer. But the software required a release key.

Which took awhile to get.

I think she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

 

Look- I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for

the META-post crack), and I agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT

that Dan Winter (and to some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has

long espoused.

In fact, I believe that with a single change to

the BioExplorer interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and

put this possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

I don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so

instead,

Respectfully request that the HeartCoherence

Team post the software SPECS to one of the lists that this message has

arrived at.

 

Thanks,

Machado- Van Deusen

 

Empower. Employ. Enjoy!

Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the

Heart Tuner

Hi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner

site--what a

melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze

Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages, though,

so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for this

much misused term, "coherence." Also, I have no need for more nf

software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer (I

already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral frequencies,

but offers little help with training, per se.) 

Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005

-- Alter, Ph.D.

AlterMedX Health Systems

Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

BrainLab

1300 Quarry Ct. #311

Richmond, CA 94801

510.307.4321

[Guest guest]

Heart Tuner has now evolved into Mind Tuner - I was involved with original project design in Netherlands - but when Dan left the group we added eeg as well - it is now a 10 channel device - 6 eeg, 1, ecg, 1 emg, 1 tmp, and 1 gsr (or 8 eeg) - really powerful system soon to be compatible with bioexplorer - medical grade put together by MIT physicist - it has Ceptrum on it but has to be activated

Endless Blessings,

Marty

www.neurotherapy.us

Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

Geee, all I did was hit "Reply." Had no idea I had gone "meta." Anyway, I will be curious to see what Chuck says. BTW, I use the Mini C2 already for LENS and a variant of that same software base also for Better Breathing Capno Trainer. I assume this software for Heart Tuner is not by the same folks. The good news is that if they ever get it really working right, the Mini C2 could run it, at least. I appreciate the frank comments, for sure. Now, on the other hand, yet another tweak to the BE interface and we could have this CEPSTRUM broader spectrum heart frequency feedback....that would be interesting. It does inspire me to take a look at the 3D real time graph of the heart frequency spectrum in CardioPro. Perhaps I just haven't looked at it with enough knowledge of its potential as feedback, rather than just analysis.Greg CM Van Deusen wrote:

Greg Alter said:

So, I wonder if it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the product, for example. Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

Wow Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm on.

Now that's a META cross post.

The Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think C2mini) hardware.

I asked if they'd sell just the software, but it was a no go. That was two years ago.

I translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had a chance to work with that version of the software.

I think that anyone who wants to know more on the HeartTuner CONCEPT, they can go to his site(s) for that info.

But the Tech side of things was, at that time... LATENT. I could not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured a constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

That version software as well as the new one have VISION! Great ideas. I just wish they would work in Beta-test longer before going to market at full price, as well as allow testing of their software with present J & J users.

has been very helpful, and I'm no dope regarding setting up software, but I have one colleague here in Brasil who bought the HeartTuner in Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully turned it on. First was Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

Then it was simple software non-recognition.

Then the software was updated. Then her computer. But the software required a release key.

Which took awhile to get. I think she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

Look- I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for the META-post crack), and I agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT that Dan Winter (and to some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has long espoused.

In fact, I believe that with a single change to the BioExplorer interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and put this possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

I don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so instead,

Respectfully request that the HeartCoherence Team post the software SPECS to one of the lists that this message has arrived at.

Thanks,

Machado- Van Deusen

Empower. Employ. Enjoy!

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Greg AlterSent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:47 PM Cc: pROSHI Subject: Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart TunerHi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner site--what a melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages, though, so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for this much misused term, "coherence." Also, I have no need for more nf software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer (I already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral frequencies, but offers little help with training, per se.) Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005-- Alter, Ph.D.

AlterMedX Health Systems

Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

BrainLab

1300 Quarry Ct. #311

Richmond, CA 94801

510.307.4321

[Guest guest]

Greg,

can you comment on whether this will work on the I330 c2 which I'm

using for LENS training?

I'd like to do HRV and FFramer is not so hot.

Marvin

Marvin H. Berman, Ph.D., CBT, BCIAC(EEG)

President, Quietmind Foundation

600 Germantown Pike Ste. A

Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-1800

Tel. 610-940-0488 Fax. 610-941-9912

email: marvinberman@...

web: www.quietmindfdn.org

This e-mail is confidential and may well be legally privileged. I you

have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please

notify us immediately by e-mail and then delete this message from your

system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose

its contents to any other person. To do so could violate State and

Federal privacy laws. Thank you for your cooperation.

On Jun 21, 2005, at 1:43 AM, Greg Alter wrote:

> Geee, all I did was hit " Reply. " Had no idea I had gone " meta. "

> Anyway, I will be curious to see what Chuck says. BTW, I use the

> Mini C2 already for LENS and a variant of that same software base also

> for Better Breathing Capno Trainer. I assume this software for Heart

> Tuner is not by the same folks. The good news is that if they ever get

> it really working right, the Mini C2 could run it, at least. I

> appreciate the frank comments, for sure.

>

> Now, on the other hand, yet another tweak to the BE interface and we

> could have this CEPSTRUM broader spectrum heart frequency

> feedback....that would be interesting.

>

> It does inspire me to take a look at the 3D real time graph of the

> heart frequency spectrum in CardioPro. Perhaps I just haven't looked

> at it with enough knowledge of its potential as feedback, rather than

> just analysis.

>

> Greg

>

> CM Van Deusen wrote:Greg Alter said:

>> So, I wonder if it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the

>> product, for example.

>> Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner

>> product?

>>  

>> Wow Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm on.

>> Now that's a META cross post.

>>  

>> The Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think C2mini) hardware.

>> I asked if they'd sell just the software, but it was a no go. That

>> was two years ago.

>> I translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had a chance to work

>> with that version of the software.

>> I think that anyone who wants to know more on the HeartTuner CONCEPT,

>> they can go to his site(s) for that info.

>> But the Tech side of things was, at that time... LATENT.

>> I could not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured

>> a constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

>>  

>> That version software as well as the new one have VISION! Great

>> ideas. I just wish they would work in Beta-test longer before going

>> to market at full price, as well as allow testing of their software

>> with present J & J users.

>>  

>> has been very helpful, and I'm no dope regarding setting up

>> software, but I have one colleague here in Brasil who bought the

>> HeartTuner in Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully turned it on.

>> First was Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

>> Then it was simple software non-recognition.

>> Then the software was updated. Then her computer. But the software

>> required a release key.

>> Which took awhile to get.

>> I think she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

>>  

>> Look- I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for the META-post crack),

>> and I agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT that Dan

>> Winter (and to some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has long

>> espoused.

>> In fact, I believe that with a single change to the BioExplorer

>> interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and put this

>> possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

>> I don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so instead,

>> Respectfully request that the HeartCoherence Team post the software

>> SPECS to one of the lists that this message has arrived at.

>>  

>> Thanks,

>> Machado- Van Deusen

>>  

>>

>> Empower. Employ. Enjoy!

>>

>>> Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart

>>> Tuner

>>>

>>> Hi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner site--what

>>> a

>>> melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze

>>> Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages,

>>> though,

>>> so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for

>>> this

>>> much misused term, " coherence. " Also, I have no need for more nf

>>> software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer

>>> (I

>>> already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral

>>> frequencies,

>>> but offers little help with training, per se.) 

>>> Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

>>

>> --

>> No virus found in this outgoing message.

>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

>> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date:

>> 6/17/2005

>>

>

> --

> Alter, Ph.D.

> AlterMedX Health Systems

> Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

> BrainLab

> 1300 Quarry Ct. #311

> Richmond, CA 94801

> 510.307.4321

>

>

[Guest guest]

At this point, I am using a combination of capnometry with "Better

Breathing," RSA with "CardioPro," "Freeze Framer," paced breathing and

guided breathing. Each really does have benefit. My gripe with Freeze

Framer is two fold--first their instructional materials have only

recently reflected the fact that "deep breathing" is self-defeating,

coming up against homeostatic mechanisms.  Second, the lack of feedback

regarding frequency dynamics makes it worthless for more subtle

feedback. I'd rather show people how to train RSA by feeling pulses in

the tip of their nose!<g> CardioPro does not offer thresholds

related to the 3D frequency map; otherwise that could be quite

interesting. I am sure BioExplorer could do something in this regard. 

Now, in regard to your question--one can imagine that it would; but

that is all it would be, imagination. I simply don't know, which is

part of why I was posting, myself!

Greg

Marvin H. Berman, Ph.D. wrote:

Greg,

can you comment on whether this will work on the I330 c2 which I'm

using for LENS training?

I'd like to do HRV and FFramer is not so hot.

Marvin

Marvin H. Berman, Ph.D., CBT, BCIAC(EEG)

President, Quietmind Foundation

600 Germantown Pike Ste. A

Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-1800

Tel. 610-940-0488 Fax. 610-941-9912

email: marvinberman@...

web: www.quietmindfdn.org

This e-mail is confidential and may well be legally

privileged. I you

have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please

notify us immediately by e-mail and then delete this message from your

system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose

its contents to any other person. To do so could violate State and

Federal privacy laws. Thank you for your cooperation.

On Jun 21, 2005, at 1:43 AM, Greg Alter wrote:

Geee, all I did was hit "Reply." Had no idea I had gone

"meta." Anyway, I will be curious to see what Chuck says. BTW, I

use the Mini C2 already for LENS and a variant of that same software

base also for Better Breathing Capno Trainer. I assume this software

for Heart Tuner is not by the same folks. The good news is that if

they ever get it really working right, the Mini C2 could run it, at

least. I appreciate the frank comments, for sure.

Now, on the other hand, yet another tweak to the BE interface and we

could have this CEPSTRUM broader spectrum heart frequency

feedback....that would be interesting.

It does inspire me to take a look at the 3D real time graph of the

heart frequency spectrum in CardioPro. Perhaps I just haven't looked

at it with enough knowledge of its potential as feedback, rather than

just analysis.

Greg

CM Van Deusen

wrote:Greg Alter said:

So, I wonder if

it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the product, for

example.

Who on the list actually

knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

 

Wow

Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm on.

Now

that's a META cross post.

 

The

Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think C2mini) hardware.

I

asked if they'd sell just the software, but it was a no go. That was

two years ago.

I

translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had a chance to work with

that version of the software.

I

think that anyone who wants to know more on the HeartTuner CONCEPT,

they can go to his site(s) for that info.

But

the Tech side of things was, at that time... LATENT.

I could

not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured a

constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

 

That

version software as well as the new one have VISION! Great ideas. I

just wish they would work in Beta-test longer before going to market

at full price, as well as allow testing of their software with present

J & J users.

 

has been very helpful, and I'm no dope regarding setting up software,

but I have one colleague here in Brasil who bought the HeartTuner in

Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully turned it on.

First was

Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

Then

it was simple software non-recognition.

Then

the software was updated. Then her computer. But the software required

a release key.

Which

took awhile to get.

I think

she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

 

Look-

I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for the META-post crack), and I

agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT that Dan Winter (and to

some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has long espoused.

In

fact, I believe that with a single change to the BioExplorer

interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and put this

possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

I

don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so instead,

Respectfully

request that the HeartCoherence Team post the software SPECS to one of

the lists that this message has arrived at.

 

Thanks,

Machado- Van Deusen

 

Empower.

Employ. Enjoy!

-----Original

Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of

Greg Alter

Sent:

Monday, June 20, 2005 12:47 PM

To:

Cc:

pROSHI

Subject:

Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

Hi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner

site--what a

melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with

Heartmath's

Freeze

Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner

pages,

though,

so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart

Tuner

for this

much misused term, "coherence." Also, I have no need for

more

nf

software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to

FreezeFramer (I

already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral

frequencies,

but offers little help with training, per se.) 

Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22

- Release Date: 6/17/2005

--

Alter, Ph.D.

AlterMedX Health Systems

Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

BrainLab

1300 Quarry Ct. #311

Richmond, CA 94801

510.307.4321

[Guest guest]

I found this article interesting - just to add to the mix - deb

http://www.danwinter.com/HeartTunerStatements.html

Marty Wuttke <ifw@...> wrote:

Heart Tuner has now evolved into Mind Tuner - I was involved with original project design in Netherlands - but when Dan left the group we added eeg as well - it is now a 10 channel device - 6 eeg, 1, ecg, 1 emg, 1 tmp, and 1 gsr (or 8 eeg) - really powerful system soon to be compatible with bioexplorer - medical grade put together by MIT physicist - it has Ceptrum on it but has to be activated

Endless Blessings,

Marty

www.neurotherapy.us

Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

Geee, all I did was hit "Reply." Had no idea I had gone "meta." Anyway, I will be curious to see what Chuck says. BTW, I use the Mini C2 already for LENS and a variant of that same software base also for Better Breathing Capno Trainer. I assume this software for Heart Tuner is not by the same folks. The good news is that if they ever get it really working right, the Mini C2 could run it, at least. I appreciate the frank comments, for sure. Now, on the other hand, yet another tweak to the BE interface and we could have this CEPSTRUM broader spectrum heart frequency feedback....that would be interesting. It does inspire me to take a look at the 3D real time graph of the heart frequency spectrum in CardioPro. Perhaps I just haven't looked at it with enough knowledge of its potential as feedback, rather than just analysis.Greg CM Van Deusen wrote:

Greg Alter said:

So, I wonder if it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the product, for example. Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

Wow Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm on.

Now that's a META cross post.

The Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think C2mini) hardware.

I asked if they'd sell just the software, but it was a no go. That was two years ago.

I translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had a chance to work with that version of the software.

I think that anyone who wants to know more on the HeartTuner CONCEPT, they can go to his site(s) for that info.

But the Tech side of things was, at that time... LATENT. I could not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured a constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

That version software as well as the new one have VISION! Great ideas. I just wish they would work in Beta-test longer before going to market at full price, as well as allow testing of their software with present J & J users.

has been very helpful, and I'm no dope regarding setting up software, but I have one colleague here in Brasil who bought the HeartTuner in Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully turned it on. First was Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

Then it was simple software non-recognition.

Then the software was updated. Then her computer. But the software required a release key.

Which took awhile to get. I think she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

Look- I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for the META-post crack), and I agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT that Dan Winter (and to some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has long espoused.

In fact, I believe that with a single change to the BioExplorer interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and put this possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

I don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so instead,

Respectfully request that the HeartCoherence Team post the software SPECS to one of the lists that this message has arrived at.

Thanks,

Machado- Van Deusen

Empower. Employ. Enjoy!

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Greg AlterSent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:47 PM Cc: pROSHI Subject: Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart TunerHi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner site--what a melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages, though, so

I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for this much misused term, "coherence." Also, I have no need for more nf software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer (I already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral frequencies, but offers little help with training, per se.) Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005-- Alter, Ph.D.

AlterMedX Health Systems

Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

BrainLab

1300 Quarry Ct. #311

Richmond, CA 94801

510.307.4321Deb Lefort MFTSomatic PsychotherapistLivermore, Ca. 925 245 0666

[Guest guest]

Oh, Lordy! Since I do know the other players, and I have absolutely no

personal knowledge of Mr. Winter, I'd simply be very wary of Mind

Tuner... ...It seems that Dan Winter has " left the group " that is doing

Mind Tuner. The question would still be, vis a vis the heart coherence

component, " What is being measured, and how? " And I have no interest in

a device made in Europe, exchange rate and all, that has EEG that I have

no interest in. That is all from me, on this thread...back to getting

some screens working in BE!

Greg

P.S., Hi, Deb!

Debaney Lefort wrote:

>

>

> I found this article interesting - just to add to the mix - deb

>

> http://www.danwinter.com/HeartTunerStatements.html

> */Marty Wuttke <ifw@...>/* wrote:

>

> Heart Tuner has now evolved into Mind Tuner - I was involved with

> original project design in Netherlands - but when Dan left the

> group we added eeg as well - it is now a 10 channel device - 6

> eeg, 1, ecg, 1 emg, 1 tmp, and 1 gsr (or 8 eeg) - really powerful

> system soon to be compatible with bioexplorer - medical grade put

> together by MIT physicist - it has Ceptrum on it but has to be

> activated

>

> Endless Blessings,

>

> Marty

> www.neurotherapy.us <http://www.neurotherapy.us/>

>

>

>

> * Re: [hearttuner] Starting with

>> the Heart Tuner

>>

>> Hi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner

>> site--what a

>> melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with

>> Heartmath's Freeze

>> Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner

>> pages, though,

>> so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart

>> Tuner for this

>> much misused term, " coherence. " Also, I have no need for

>> more nf

>> software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to

>> FreezeFramer (I

>> already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of

>> spectral frequencies,

>> but offers little help with training, per se.)

>> Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

>>

>>

>> --

>> No virus found in this outgoing message.

>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

>> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date:

>> 6/17/2005

>>

>

>--

> Alter, Ph.D.

>AlterMedX Health Systems

>Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

>BrainLab

>1300 Quarry Ct. #311

>Richmond, CA 94801

>510.307.4321

>

>

>

> Deb Lefort MFT

> Somatic Psychotherapist

> Livermore, Ca.

> 925 245 0666

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> *

[Guest guest]

Marty

Please explain more about what you mean> Cepstrum has to be activated.

Thanks,

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marty WuttkeSent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

Heart Tuner has now evolved into Mind Tuner - I was involved with original project design in Netherlands - but when Dan left the group we added eeg as well - it is now a 10 channel device - 6 eeg, 1, ecg, 1 emg, 1 tmp, and 1 gsr (or 8 eeg) - really powerful system soon to be compatible with bioexplorer - medical grade put together by MIT physicist - it has Ceptrum on it but has to be activated

Endless Blessings,

Marty

www.neurotherapy.us

Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart Tuner

Geee, all I did was hit "Reply." Had no idea I had gone "meta." Anyway, I will be curious to see what Chuck says. BTW, I use the Mini C2 already for LENS and a variant of that same software base also for Better Breathing Capno Trainer. I assume this software for Heart Tuner is not by the same folks. The good news is that if they ever get it really working right, the Mini C2 could run it, at least. I appreciate the frank comments, for sure. Now, on the other hand, yet another tweak to the BE interface and we could have this CEPSTRUM broader spectrum heart frequency feedback....that would be interesting. It does inspire me to take a look at the 3D real time graph of the heart frequency spectrum in CardioPro. Perhaps I just haven't looked at it with enough knowledge of its potential as feedback, rather than just analysis.Greg CM Van Deusen wrote:

Greg Alter said:

So, I wonder if it is possible to leave the EEG components out of the product, for example. Who on the list actually knows anything about this HeartTuner product?

Wow Greg, you spanned 3 of the 5 lists I'm on.

Now that's a META cross post.

The Heart Tuner uses a J & J C2 (I think C2mini) hardware.

I asked if they'd sell just the software, but it was a no go. That was two years ago.

I translated DanWinters visit to Brasil, and had a chance to work with that version of the software.

I think that anyone who wants to know more on the HeartTuner CONCEPT, they can go to his site(s) for that info.

But the Tech side of things was, at that time... LATENT. I could not call it Biofeedback because the software buffer assured a constant more than a second delay between reading and feedback.

That version software as well as the new one have VISION! Great ideas. I just wish they would work in Beta-test longer before going to market at full price, as well as allow testing of their software with present J & J users.

has been very helpful, and I'm no dope regarding setting up software, but I have one colleague here in Brasil who bought the HeartTuner in Oct 2003 and has STILL not successfully turned it on. First was Serial to USB configs that J & J required very exactly.

Then it was simple software non-recognition.

Then the software was updated. Then her computer. But the software required a release key.

Which took awhile to get. I think she could get it to run if she hired a tech assistant.

Look- I'm not being fascecious (sic)(except for the META-post crack), and I agree with Greg on the worth of the CONCEPT that Dan Winter (and to some degree Schwartz and Dr. Korotkov) has long espoused.

In fact, I believe that with a single change to the BioExplorer interface, we could design a Public Domain CEPSTRUM and put this possibly powerful mode of training to a larger body of testing.

I don't want to burn anyone's reputation. And so instead,

Respectfully request that the HeartCoherence Team post the software SPECS to one of the lists that this message has arrived at.

Thanks,

Machado- Van Deusen

Empower. Employ. Enjoy!

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Greg AlterSent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:47 PM Cc: pROSHI Subject: Re: [hearttuner] Starting with the Heart TunerHi, Chuck, and everyone. I just looked at the Heart Tuner site--what a melange of stuff! I have been dissatisfied with Heartmath's Freeze Framer for the same reasons espoused in the Heart Tuner pages, though, so I am curious about the underlying measures in Heart Tuner for this much misused term, "coherence." Also, I have no need for more nf software/hardware, but I would like an alternative to FreezeFramer (I already have CardioPro, which looks at a range of spectral frequencies, but offers little help with training, per se.) Chuck, you posted--whatya know about it?<g> ?

--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005-- Alter, Ph.D.

AlterMedX Health Systems

Berkeley Biofeedback and Psychology Center

BrainLab

1300 Quarry Ct. #311

Richmond, CA 94801

510.307.4321

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005