Re: Re: F Y I Microwave ovens are bad too [new member]

[Guest guest]

I saw this in Duncan's post written by someone he was answering; I must

have missed the original:

>> Do a search for microwaves on also under radiation ovens.

Microwave " radiation " is no more mysterious than TV waves.

Same thing. If you fear the " radiation " from a microwave you should also

not have a TV in your house:-))

>> It

>>alters your food depleats nutrition and they are banned from use in

>>Canada.

In your dreams?

In reality this is not true.

>> I quite useing mine a month ago my health is more important

>>than the fast heat up of a microwave.

Heat is heat. How much you use is what matters, not which heating method

you use. Overheating destroys nutrients, but a correctly used microwave

oven actually conserves them.

In any cooking system, whether on a hot plate, on a grill or in a

microwave, there are relevant things to know about the cooking

containers and utensils and what they do to your food if you use the

wrong ones for that cooking method.

For example you should not use alumiunum pots on the stove unless you

want poisoning from aluminum and you should not use oleander wood to

roast marshmallows or in your grill unless you are planning a mass

suicide. That does not make stoves or grills or marshmallows unsuitable

to use. Equally, you should not use regular plastic or stoneware in your

microwave unless you want carcinogens and lead respectively, to be

leached from those into your food. Wrong cookware does not mean

microwave ovens are unsuitable to use. Wrong cookware or wrong cooking

time is what's unsuitable :-)

As Duncan says:

> Mcrowave ovens have never been banned in Canada. They're in all

> the appliance stores and always have been. I think you're

> thinking about Russia, which had banned them for 10 or 15 years

> initially.

.... Back when they were made with bad door seals so that people standing

near them also could get cooked. They fixed that in about the 19-fifties.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

Heat is not heat if it moves the cells so fast they heat up from the

inside to the outside it is not the same as heat from the outside.

Best Regards, & Chloey Ratliff La Chorrera De Panama

Re: Re: F Y I Microwave ovens are bad too [new

member]

I saw this in Duncan's post written by someone he was answering; I must

have missed the original:

>> Do a search for microwaves on also under radiation ovens.

Microwave " radiation " is no more mysterious than TV waves.

Same thing. If you fear the " radiation " from a microwave you should also

not have a TV in your house:-))

>> It

>>alters your food depleats nutrition and they are banned from use in

>>Canada.

In your dreams?

In reality this is not true.

>> I quite useing mine a month ago my health is more important

>>than the fast heat up of a microwave.

Heat is heat. How much you use is what matters, not which heating method

you use. Overheating destroys nutrients, but a correctly used microwave

oven actually conserves them.

In any cooking system, whether on a hot plate, on a grill or in a

microwave, there are relevant things to know about the cooking

containers and utensils and what they do to your food if you use the

wrong ones for that cooking method.

For example you should not use alumiunum pots on the stove unless you

want poisoning from aluminum and you should not use oleander wood to

roast marshmallows or in your grill unless you are planning a mass

suicide. That does not make stoves or grills or marshmallows unsuitable

to use. Equally, you should not use regular plastic or stoneware in your

microwave unless you want carcinogens and lead respectively, to be

leached from those into your food. Wrong cookware does not mean

microwave ovens are unsuitable to use. Wrong cookware or wrong cooking

time is what's unsuitable :-)

As Duncan says:

> Mcrowave ovens have never been banned in Canada. They're in all

> the appliance stores and always have been. I think you're

> thinking about Russia, which had banned them for 10 or 15 years

> initially.

.... Back when they were made with bad door seals so that people standing

near them also could get cooked. They fixed that in about the

19-fifties.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under

no circumstances should any information published here be considered a

substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the

owner

[Guest guest]

I am sorry I got one fact wrong-- Canada. I apologize for caring not only

about my health but others too. There are a lot of resources out there to find

more on what I posted. I was not being rude and it would be if others were

not also. I will access the info in this group but I will NOT be posting for a

while, sorry for my concern. Irene de Villiers <furryboots@...>

wrote: I saw this in Duncan's post written by someone he was answering; I must

have missed the original:

>> Do a search for microwaves on also under radiation ovens.

Microwave " radiation " is no more mysterious than TV waves.

Same thing. If you fear the " radiation " from a microwave you should also

not have a TV in your house:-))

>> It

>>alters your food depleats nutrition and they are banned from use in

>>Canada.

In your dreams?

In reality this is not true.

>> I quite useing mine a month ago my health is more important

>>than the fast heat up of a microwave.

Heat is heat. How much you use is what matters, not which heating method

you use. Overheating destroys nutrients, but a correctly used microwave

oven actually conserves them.

In any cooking system, whether on a hot plate, on a grill or in a

microwave, there are relevant things to know about the cooking

containers and utensils and what they do to your food if you use the

wrong ones for that cooking method.

For example you should not use alumiunum pots on the stove unless you

want poisoning from aluminum and you should not use oleander wood to

roast marshmallows or in your grill unless you are planning a mass

suicide. That does not make stoves or grills or marshmallows unsuitable

to use. Equally, you should not use regular plastic or stoneware in your

microwave unless you want carcinogens and lead respectively, to be

leached from those into your food. Wrong cookware does not mean

microwave ovens are unsuitable to use. Wrong cookware or wrong cooking

time is what's unsuitable :-)

As Duncan says:

> Mcrowave ovens have never been banned in Canada. They're in all

> the appliance stores and always have been. I think you're

> thinking about Russia, which had banned them for 10 or 15 years

> initially.

.... Back when they were made with bad door seals so that people standing

near them also could get cooked. They fixed that in about the 19-fifties.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

[Guest guest]

Irene,

Microwave cooking is not the simple heating that correlates with oven

or stovetop.

It alters food in undesireable ways.

It raised MY concerns enough to dismantle ours.

I used the DC power supply and cabinet to make a HVDC colloidal silver

maker following Duncans published instructions.

We've never missed the microwave!

Chuck

(A red sign on the door of a physics professor:

'If this sign is blue, you're going too fast.')

Lots of info at

http://www.herbalhealer.com/microwave.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

And at

http://www.besthealth.com.au/microwaveart.htm :

THE DANGERS OF MICROWAVE COOKING

Cooking in a microwave oven is not safe. Atoms, molecules and

cells are hit by the hard electromagnetic irradiation of microwaving

reverse polarity over one billion times a second. Even in the low

energy range of milliwatts, no atom, molecule or cell of any organic

system can withstand such destructive power.

Molecules are forcefully deformed, their quality impaired. The

electrical potentials between the outer and inner side of the cell

membranes - the very life of the cells - are neutralised. Natural

repair mechanisms are suppressed; and cells, forced to adapt to a

state of emergency, switch from normal aerobic to anaerobic (without

oxygen) respiration. Instead of water and carbon dioxide, this

fermentation produces hydrogen peroxide and carbon monoxide. The newly

formed radiolytic compounds are unknown to man and nature; the

impaired cells become easy prey for viruses, fungi, and other

microorganisms.

Wisely banned from Russia, microwaving destroys some nutrients and

turns some amino acids into carcinogens. Established science and

government claim all this doesn’t hurt people eating irradiated food;

but neither scientists not governments ever tested their claims.

Dr Hans Hertel of Germany did the first and only, small but well

controlled study of the effects of microwaved nutrients on the blood

and physiology of humans. The blood of those who consume microwaved

food for two months showed pathological changes compared to matched

controls eating food cooked with heat. The changes included a decrease

in all haemoglobin values and deterioration in cholesterol, especially

the HDL and LDL (high and low density cholesterol) values and ratio.

Lymphocytes (white blood cells) showed a more distinct short term

decrease after the intake of microwaved food than after normally

cooked foods.

Moreover, warming breast milk in a microwave oven destroys 98% of

its immunoglobulin - A antibodies and 96% of its liposome activity,

reducing the milks resistance to infectious E.coli.

(reprinted from the January 1996 edition of the Townsend Letter

for Doctors and Patients)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From Mercolas site

http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm

Partial, see the whole article

" Then blood samples were taken at defined intervals after eating from

the above-numbered milk or vegetable preparations. Significant changes

were discovered in the blood of the volunteers who consumed foods

cooked in the microwave oven. These changes included a decrease in all

hemoglobin values and cholesterol values, especially the HDL (good

cholesterol) and LDL (bad cholesterol) values and ratio.

Lymphocytes (white blood cells) showed a more distinct short-term

decrease following the intake of microwaved food than after the intake

of all the other variants. Each of these indicators point in a

direction away from robust health and toward degeneration.

Additionally, there was a highly significant association between the

amount of microwave energy in the test foods and the luminous power of

luminescent bacteria exposed to serum from test persons who ate that

food. "

Irene de Villiers <furryboots@...> wrote:

>

> Microwave " radiation " is no more mysterious than TV waves.

> Same thing. If you fear the " radiation " from a microwave you should also

> not have a TV in your house:-))

>

> >> It

> >>alters your food depleats nutrition and they are banned from use in

> >>Canada.

>

> In your dreams?

> In reality this is not true.

>

> >> I quite useing mine a month ago my health is more important

> >>than the fast heat up of a microwave.

>

>Heat is heat. How much you use is what matters, not which heating method

>you use. Overheating destroys nutrients, but a correctly used microwave

>oven actually conserves them.

> In any cooking system, whether on a hot plate, on a grill or in a

>microwave, there are relevant things to know about the cooking

>containers and utensils and what they do to your food if you use the

>wrong ones for that cooking method.

>

> For example you should not use alumiunum pots on the stove unless you

>want poisoning from aluminum and you should not use oleander wood to

>roast marshmallows or in your grill unless you are planning a mass

>suicide. That does not make stoves or grills or marshmallows unsuitable

>to use. Equally, you should not use regular plastic or stoneware in your

>microwave unless you want carcinogens and lead respectively, to be

>leached from those into your food. Wrong cookware does not mean

>microwave ovens are unsuitable to use. Wrong cookware or wrong cooking

>time is what's unsuitable :-)

>

>As Duncan says:

>> Mcrowave ovens have never been banned in Canada. They're in all

>> the appliance stores and always have been. I think you're

>> thinking about Russia, which had banned them for 10 or 15 years

>> initially.

>

>... Back when they were made with bad door seals so that people standing

>near them also could get cooked. They fixed that in about the 19-fifties.

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

[Guest guest]

Or. You could try Mayo Clinic:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-and-nutrition/AN01022

or look for any reputable gov or edu site about this. NIH ain't all bad:

http://snipurl.com/mehp

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3\

894486 & dopt=Abstract

The bottom line IS heat. High heats from any source will create

carcinogens. Grilling is a big one. Low heat cooking from any method is

best. If you ever have read the scientists evaluate studies about

microwave cooking (from one of the CRON groups for example), you would

get a much different understanding of the hoopla (misstated claims) over

microwave cooking by the non-reputable sources. And for God's sake, RUN

from anything written or associated with Mercola. What a QUACK.

cking001@... wrote:

>Irene,

>Microwave cooking is not the simple heating that correlates with oven or

stovetop. It alters food in undesireable ways.

>

>It raised MY concerns enough to dismantle ours.

>I used the DC power supply and cabinet to make a HVDC colloidal silver maker

following Duncans published instructions.

>

>We've never missed the microwave!

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Feb 9, 2006, at 9:55 PM, Apricot85 wrote:

> Or.  You could try Mayo Clinic:

> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-and-nutrition/AN01022

> or look for any reputable gov or edu site about this.  NIH ain't all

> bad:

> http://snipurl.com/mehp

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3894486 & dopt=Abstract

>

> The bottom line IS heat.  High heats from any source will create

> carcinogens.  Grilling is a big one. Low heat cooking from any method

> is

> best.  If you ever have read the scientists evaluate studies about

> microwave cooking (from one of the CRON groups for example), you would

> get a much different understanding of the hoopla (misstated claims)

> over

> microwave cooking by the non-reputable sources.  And for God's sake,

> RUN

> from anything written or associated with Mercola.  What a QUACK.

>

Interesting, while I agree with you about the cult-like fear of

microwaved food, I am more likely to disagree with the NIH and Mayo

than Mercola.

Hans Conser

[Guest guest]

cking001@... wrote:

> Irene,

> Microwave cooking is not the simple heating that correlates with oven

> or stovetop.

> It alters food in undesireable ways.

This is not so and there is no evidence for it either:-)

The only food alteration that ever happened in a microwave was due to

inappropriate food containers or incorrect cooking technique (like

overcooking or failing to have the right similar size items etc) :-))

Your TV can't change your food either - it's the same type of energy:-))

> It raised MY concerns enough to dismantle ours.

It???

There's no evidence for " it " .

> I used the DC power supply and cabinet to make a HVDC colloidal silver

> maker

Now that may well cause health damage.

Silver is a heavy metal which causes poisoning because people do NOT all

excrete it as is hoped. It causes not only argyria but other argentum

proving symptoms as it accumulates in the body tissues.

> We've never missed the microwave!

Fine. I use mine to get healthier:-))

> Lots of info at

> http://www.herbalhealer.com/microwave.html

It talks about friction but a lot more about fiction.

It has the usual baloney people spread around about " radiation " , which

has nuclear radiation confused with electromagnetic radiation.

Read something real!!!

This is not!

One example. It says:

[Radiation, as defined by physics terminology, is " the electromagnetic

waves emitted by the atoms and molecules of a radioactive substance as a

result of nuclear decay. " ]

This is a definition of NUCLEAR radiation. That's what is used in atomic

bombs and nuclear power stations and has stuff all to do with microwave

ovens. To radiate just means to spread it around in all directions. You

still have to state WHAT is radiating - whether it is heat, nuclear

subatomic particles or radio waves or light rays. In the case of

microwaves it is NOT nuclear decay particles. It is radio waves.

So whoever wrote that needs to go learn physics 101 or some such. High

school physics would suffice, but it's apparently missing.

There's plenty of misleading garbage on the internet written by people

with insufficient education to know what they are talking about.

It's full of the usual stupidity where surprise surprise if you COOK the

blood it doesn't work too well for transfusion compared with just

heating it a bit - and where it you overcook baby formula - ditto.

These isolated examples of stupidity have occurred over the past 6

decades yes, and here has been an admirable job of assembling them all

with GREAT care NOT to also assemble the reasons these oddities happened

and which have nothing to do with microwave cooking!

These things all would occur in stove cooking as well.

.......Same old rubbish where microwaved food is called carcinogenic but

they forget to mention that it is due to carcinogens in the plastic wrap

on the food which leached into the food - nothing to do with the cooking

method. That would happen with plastic wrap in a regular oven as well of

course. They go on and on with ZERO checking out of the baloney they write.

As for the official " author " of this fictitious prose:

" Written by Wayne and Lawrence Newell

International common Law Copyright 2000

by The Christian Law Institute & Fellowship Assembly "

this is hardly a qualified scientific opinion!!!!

GEt real.

Look at something that has some validity, not garbage left lying about

for six years - don't just swallow any old garbage someone puts on a

website with zilch qualifications to comment!

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

Hans Conser wrote:

> Interesting, while I agree with you about the cult-like fear of

> microwaved food, I am more likely to disagree with the NIH and Mayo

> than Mercola.

Mercola promotes the same garbage about microwaves and his rubbish refs

go back to the fifties last time I looked!

He obviously does not check out what he puts on his website - which is a

pity because then you do not have any way to know what things to trust.

That is what makes him a " quack " .

It takes ethics and hard work to verify things before putting one's name

behind them.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

You will also need to disagree with a whole lot of other people. And

other countries as well. For starters, here's UK, Canada & Australia:

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/is_mwave.htm

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/iyh-vsv/prod/micro-f-a_e.html

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=8774

You would have to disagree with numerous NIH studies:

http://snipurl.com/mekd

The CSPINET has a easy reading explanation about this myth.

http://www.cspinet.org/nah/04_05/microwavemyths.pdf

Mercola is a very poor source for information. He takes other peoples

work, rewrites it as his own medical opinion & then uses their work as a

reference for 'his' work. Even still, does he some times get it right?

Probably. However, he gets it wrong a lot. Take his position on Vit

D. I agreed with his information about Vitamin D. However, I actually

checked out one of his reference & found that the reference had written

a disclaimer about the Mercola website because he rewrote it wrong.

Lets look at his Splenda rant. As a reference, he uses some website

billed as something official. When I examine this website reference, I

find that it is run by Mark Goldblum (or some similar last name). The

owner of that site is burried, but can be found if you click enough.

The site owner looks like a kid, and purports NO medical background.

And guess what, the MG website uses Mercola as HIS reference. What

kind of responsible science is that? I challenge you to find support

for his claims in medical studies. Unfortunately, you will have to look

on your own, because Mercola does not provide any PMID numbers. Moving

on to the insulin & Rosedale's position paper. Another rewrite by

Mercola. If you will read Rosedales paper, you will find much better

information that in the Mercola rewrite.

I won't go to Mercola's web site again. He's making money by those hits

of people that believe his rants. He garners no respect by the

scientific community. He may get it right some times. In the end, I

have found that his site is a poor substitue for reliable information, &

is a simple marketing ploy (ranting) to get visitors to his site.

Hans Conser wrote:

>Interesting, while I agree with you about the cult-like fear of

>microwaved food, I am more likely to disagree with the NIH and Mayo than

Mercola.

>

[Guest guest]

On 2/10/2006 1:11:42 AM, Irene de Villiers (furryboots@...)

wrote:

>

>cking001@... wrote:

>> Irene,

>> Microwave cooking is not the simple heating that correlates with oven

>> or stovetop.

>> It alters food in undesireable ways.

>

>This is not so and there is no evidence for it either:-)

Well, no, not if you ignore/dismiss it out of hand.

My post gave a couple of refs.

The curious would look for more.

>The only food alteration that ever happened in a microwave was due to

>inappropriate food containers or incorrect cooking technique (like

>overcooking or failing to have the right similar size items etc) :-))

Point was that it does alter, and microwaved food alters the blood in

unusual ways when ingested.

>Your TV can't change your food either - it's the same type of energy:-))

I'm not talking about TV. This a red herring?

>> It raised MY concerns enough to dismantle ours.

>

>It???

>There's no evidence for " it " .

Ignoring again?

>> I used the DC power supply and cabinet to make a HVDC colloidal silver

>> maker

>

>Now that may well cause health damage.

>Silver is a heavy metal which causes poisoning because people do NOT all

>excrete it as is hoped. It causes not only argyria but other argentum

>proving symptoms as it accumulates in the body tissues.

Very curious statement coming from a homeopath.

Silver is a noble metal not a heavy metal and besides I'm talking

about colloidal Silver.

Colloidal Silver doesn't cause argyria, but silver salts can.

Different beasts!

Altman published his one-man study of CS extraction from the

body that shows accumulation doesn't occur. It's on the net!

>> We've never missed the microwave!

>

>Fine. I use mine to get healthier:-))

>

>> Lots of info at

>> http://www.herbalhealer.com/microwave.html

>

>

>It talks about friction but a lot more about fiction.

>It has the usual baloney people spread around about " radiation " , which

>has nuclear radiation confused with electromagnetic radiation.

>Read something real!!!

>This is not!

I'm not concerned about the pseudo-science explanations about how

things work. Most are dumbed-down to ad-nauseum degrees.

I AM interested in clinical results and anecdotal reports.

Cited were Swiss, Russian and German clinical studies.

If you so easily dismiss them out of hand, then you're displaying the

ever prevalent NIH attitude (Not Invented Here).

For me, the bottom line was that a reasonable doubt about possible

serious consequences had been presented about a device that I don't

really need.

I think my decision was prudent!

I notice that you didn't comment on the actual results from EATING mw

foods. Hertels study does NOT qualify as garbage:

From Mercolas site

http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm

Partial, see the whole article

" Then blood samples were taken at defined intervals after eating from

the above-numbered milk or vegetable preparations. Significant changes

were discovered in the blood of the volunteers who consumed foods

cooked in the microwave oven. These changes included a decrease in all

hemoglobin values and cholesterol values, especially the HDL (good

cholesterol) and LDL (bad cholesterol) values and ratio.

Lymphocytes (white blood cells) showed a more distinct short-term

decrease following the intake of microwaved food than after the intake

of all the other variants. Each of these indicators point in a

direction away from robust health and toward degeneration.

Additionally, there was a highly significant association between the

amount of microwave energy in the test foods and the luminous power of

luminescent bacteria exposed to serum from test persons who ate that

food. "

BTW Irene,

Your use of dismissive buzzwords such as " garbage, stupidity, rubbish,

get real, are unpleasant and indicitive of a closed mindset, so I'm

concluding that further discussion would be unproductive.

Chuck

" Not always right, but never uncertain. --Heinlein " Glory Days "

>One example. It says:

>[Radiation, as defined by physics terminology, is " the electromagnetic

>waves emitted by the atoms and molecules of a radioactive substance as a

>result of nuclear decay. " ]

>This is a definition of NUCLEAR radiation. That's what is used in atomic

>bombs and nuclear power stations and has stuff all to do with microwave

>ovens. To radiate just means to spread it around in all directions. You

>still have to state WHAT is radiating - whether it is heat, nuclear

>subatomic particles or radio waves or light rays. In the case of

>microwaves it is NOT nuclear decay particles. It is radio waves.

>So whoever wrote that needs to go learn physics 101 or some such. High

>school physics would suffice, but it's apparently missing.

>

>There's plenty of misleading garbage on the internet written by people

>with insufficient education to know what they are talking about.

>It's full of the usual stupidity where surprise surprise if you COOK the

>blood it doesn't work too well for transfusion compared with just

>heating it a bit - and where it you overcook baby formula - ditto.

>These isolated examples of stupidity have occurred over the past 6

>decades yes, and here has been an admirable job of assembling them all

>with GREAT care NOT to also assemble the reasons these oddities happened

>and which have nothing to do with microwave cooking!

>These things all would occur in stove cooking as well.

>......Same old rubbish where microwaved food is called carcinogenic but

>they forget to mention that it is due to carcinogens in the plastic wrap

>on the food which leached into the food - nothing to do with the cooking

>method. That would happen with plastic wrap in a regular oven as well of

>course. They go on and on with ZERO checking out of the baloney they write.

>

>As for the official " author " of this fictitious prose:

> " Written by Wayne and Lawrence Newell

> International common Law Copyright 2000

>by The Christian Law Institute & Fellowship Assembly "

>this is hardly a qualified scientific opinion!!!!

>

>GEt real.

>Look at something that has some validity, not garbage left lying about

>for six years - don't just swallow any old garbage someone puts on a

>website with zilch qualifications to comment!

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

>--

>Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

>P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

>www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

>Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nonsense, heat is just a higher energy level in a substance, this causes

the atoms to move faster, microwaves just penetrate deeper than most

other cooking methods e.g. thicker microwaved food items cook partly by

water vibration causing heat and partly by conduction/convection of this

heat deeper into the food item, this is why some items have to stand for

a period after cooking, so that the conduction/convection part of the

cooking can complete. If anything microwave are better, because they

reduce the amount of time the outer parts of a food item have to stay

hot i.e. less nutrient loss.

ROBERT RATLIFF wrote:

> Heat is not heat if it moves the cells so fast they heat up from the

> inside to the outside it is not the same as heat from the outside.

>

>

> Best Regards, & Chloey Ratliff La Chorrera De Panama

>

>

> Re: Re: F Y I Microwave ovens are bad too [new

> member]

>

>

> I saw this in Duncan's post written by someone he was answering; I must

>

> have missed the original:

>

>

>>> Do a search for microwaves on also under radiation ovens.

>>>

>

> Microwave " radiation " is no more mysterious than TV waves.

> Same thing. If you fear the " radiation " from a microwave you should also

>

> not have a TV in your house:-))

>

>

>>> It

>>> alters your food depleats nutrition and they are banned from use in

>>> Canada.

>>>

>

> In your dreams?

> In reality this is not true.

>

>

>>> I quite useing mine a month ago my health is more important

>>> than the fast heat up of a microwave.

>>>

>

> Heat is heat. How much you use is what matters, not which heating method

>

> you use. Overheating destroys nutrients, but a correctly used microwave

> oven actually conserves them.

> In any cooking system, whether on a hot plate, on a grill or in a

> microwave, there are relevant things to know about the cooking

> containers and utensils and what they do to your food if you use the

> wrong ones for that cooking method.

>

> For example you should not use alumiunum pots on the stove unless you

>

> want poisoning from aluminum and you should not use oleander wood to

> roast marshmallows or in your grill unless you are planning a mass

> suicide. That does not make stoves or grills or marshmallows unsuitable

> to use. Equally, you should not use regular plastic or stoneware in your

>

> microwave unless you want carcinogens and lead respectively, to be

> leached from those into your food. Wrong cookware does not mean

> microwave ovens are unsuitable to use. Wrong cookware or wrong cooking

> time is what's unsuitable :-)

>

> As Duncan says:

>

>> Mcrowave ovens have never been banned in Canada. They're in all

>> the appliance stores and always have been. I think you're

>> thinking about Russia, which had banned them for 10 or 15 years

>> initially.

>>

>

> ... Back when they were made with bad door seals so that people standing

>

> near them also could get cooked. They fixed that in about the

> 19-fifties.

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

> --

> Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

> P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

> www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

> Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

>

>

>

>

> Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under

> no circumstances should any information published here be considered a

> substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the

> owner

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Friday 10 February 2006 8:31 am, cking001@... wrote:

> >Your TV can't change your food either - it's the same type of energy:-))

>

> I'm not talking about TV. This a red herring?

If it *is* a red herring, for god's sake don't microwave it, whatever you do!

;-)

--

Chuck MATTSEN / Mahnomen, MN, USA / mattsen@...

___________________

Random Thought/Quote For This Message:

The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from

fear.

-- Aung San Suu Kyi

[Guest guest]

Chuck Mattsen wrote:

>>I'm not talking about TV. This a red herring?

>

>

> If it *is* a red herring, for god's sake don't microwave it, whatever you do!

>

> ;-)

>

ROFL:-)))

--

[Guest guest]

cking001@... wrote:

>>>It alters food in undesireable ways.

>>

>>This is not so and there is no evidence for it either:-)

>

>

> Well, no, not if you ignore/dismiss it out of hand.

Not out of hand.

I was going to answer but Apricot85 already did :-))

Good post, suggest you read it carefully.

As for the comment on colloidal silver " from a homeopath " , there is

nothing homeopathic about colloidal silver and argyria IS caused by

colloidal silver - a heavy metal - check it out in the periodic table

before you claim otherwise :-)))

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

On Thursday 09 February 2006 10:11 pm, Irene de Villiers wrote:

> cking001@... wrote:

> > Irene,

> > Microwave cooking is not the simple heating that correlates with oven

> > or stovetop.

> > It alters food in undesireable ways.

>

> This is not so and there is no evidence for it either:-)

> The only food alteration that ever happened in a microwave was due to

> inappropriate food containers or incorrect cooking technique (like

> overcooking or failing to have the right similar size items etc) :-))

> Your TV can't change your food either - it's the same type of energy:-))

>

> > It raised MY concerns enough to dismantle ours.

>

> It???

> There's no evidence for " it " .

>

> > I used the DC power supply and cabinet to make a HVDC colloidal silver

> > maker

>

> Now that may well cause health damage.

> Silver is a heavy metal which causes poisoning because people do NOT all

> excrete it as is hoped. It causes not only argyria but other argentum

> proving symptoms as it accumulates in the body tissues.

>

> > We've never missed the microwave!

>

> Fine. I use mine to get healthier:-))

>

> > Lots of info at

> > http://www.herbalhealer.com/microwave.html

>

> It talks about friction but a lot more about fiction.

> It has the usual baloney people spread around about " radiation " , which

> has nuclear radiation confused with electromagnetic radiation.

> Read something real!!!

> This is not!

> One example. It says:

> [Radiation, as defined by physics terminology, is " the electromagnetic

> waves emitted by the atoms and molecules of a radioactive substance as a

> result of nuclear decay. " ]

> This is a definition of NUCLEAR radiation. That's what is used in atomic

> bombs and nuclear power stations and has stuff all to do with microwave

> ovens. To radiate just means to spread it around in all directions. You

> still have to state WHAT is radiating - whether it is heat, nuclear

> subatomic particles or radio waves or light rays. In the case of

> microwaves it is NOT nuclear decay particles. It is radio waves.

> So whoever wrote that needs to go learn physics 101 or some such. High

> school physics would suffice, but it's apparently missing.

>

> There's plenty of misleading garbage on the internet written by people

> with insufficient education to know what they are talking about.

> It's full of the usual stupidity where surprise surprise if you COOK the

> blood it doesn't work too well for transfusion compared with just

> heating it a bit - and where it you overcook baby formula - ditto.

> These isolated examples of stupidity have occurred over the past 6

> decades yes, and here has been an admirable job of assembling them all

> with GREAT care NOT to also assemble the reasons these oddities happened

> and which have nothing to do with microwave cooking!

> These things all would occur in stove cooking as well.

> ......Same old rubbish where microwaved food is called carcinogenic but

> they forget to mention that it is due to carcinogens in the plastic wrap

> on the food which leached into the food - nothing to do with the cooking

> method. That would happen with plastic wrap in a regular oven as well of

> course. They go on and on with ZERO checking out of the baloney they write.

>

> As for the official " author " of this fictitious prose:

> " Written by Wayne and Lawrence Newell

> International common Law Copyright 2000

> by The Christian Law Institute & Fellowship Assembly "

> this is hardly a qualified scientific opinion!!!!

>

> GEt real.

> Look at something that has some validity, not garbage left lying about

> for six years - don't just swallow any old garbage someone puts on a

> website with zilch qualifications to comment!

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

Are you playing devils advocate again? <smile>

There is a difference between a transmitter and a receiver as one is designed

to product an output and the other is designed to detect/receive a sent

signal. Radiation has different effects depending on frequency,

polarization, power levels at the receiving area, etc. As to substances, the

quantity often determines if it is beneficial or a poisen. I've used

colloidal silver to resolve stomach flu when nothing else would work because

of it's effect on the metabolism of some bacteria causing it to stop and

killing them. I also carry it with me when I take a cruse as part of a

traveling medical kit. It other words, I don't see the world as black or

white. Microwaves and silver can be leveraged to advantage or misused to

disadvantage. To each his own advantage and his own choice.

--

Steve - dudescholar1@...

" It is wise to keep in mind that neither success nor failure is ever final. "

-- Babson

[Guest guest]

On Friday 10 February 2006 8:21 am, Chuck Mattsen wrote:

> On Friday 10 February 2006 8:31 am, cking001@... wrote:

> > >Your TV can't change your food either - it's the same type of energy:-))

> >

> > I'm not talking about TV. This a red herring?

>

> If it *is* a red herring, for god's sake don't microwave it, whatever you

> do!

>

> ;-)

Microwave fish is " nasty " . Oven cooked is much better. Something is

" different " with respect to the heat issue.

--

Steve - dudescholar1@...

" What luck for rulers, that men do not think. "

--Adolph Hitler

[Guest guest]

steve wrote:

> I've used

> colloidal silver to resolve stomach flu when nothing else would work because

> of it's effect on the metabolism of some bacteria causing it to stop and

> killing them.

There's no question silver will kill bacteria - it's how heavy metal

poisoning works :-))

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

steve wrote:>

> Microwave fish is " nasty " .

As with everything else, in cooking or any other activity - there is a

right way and a wrong way.

Microwave cooking is no different - so you need to discuss what you did

to get the fish " nasty " , and then you can find out how to cook correctly

in a microwave:-))

Common errors with microwaving fish:

* Putting it in as one big piece.

* Failing to put the pieces in a circle to get even cooking.

* Failing to cover it to preserve juice and flavour.

* Using incorrect cookware instead of microwave cookware.

* Overcooking.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

Sorry Irene,

I've been using CS daily for a decade now.

Your conclusions are faulty.

My EXPERIENCE tops your THEORY!

Chuck

Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

On 2/10/2006 1:50:58 PM, Irene de Villiers (furryboots@...)

wrote:

>

>

>cking001@... wrote:

>>>>It alters food in undesireable ways.

>>>

>>>This is not so and there is no evidence for it either:-)

>>

>>

>> Well, no, not if you ignore/dismiss it out of hand.

>

>Not out of hand.

>I was going to answer but Apricot85 already did :-))

>Good post, suggest you read it carefully.

>

>As for the comment on colloidal silver " from a homeopath " , there is

>nothing homeopathic about colloidal silver and argyria IS caused by

>colloidal silver - a heavy metal - check it out in the periodic table

>before you claim otherwise :-)))

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

[Guest guest]

cking001@... wrote:

> Sorry Irene,

> I've been using CS daily for a decade now.

>

> Your conclusions are faulty.

>

> My EXPERIENCE tops your THEORY!

Your experience so far:-)

My fellow homeopath friend with argyria used to think that way too,

believed all the hype about colloidal silver " made the right way " etc...

Now she has to live with it, looking like a corpse.

There ARE safe ways to handle anything for which people use silver

poisoning. It's not necessary to let the stuff accumulate till you get

argyria:-)

Those who get it do not see it coming after all.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

[Guest guest]

You can put fish in as big pieces, if the cooking container is enclosed,

large enough, and you add some water to prevent the fish from drying

out, a microwave with a static wave guide, and HT inverter (rather than

an HT transformer) and a turntable probably helps too, because it cooks

the food more evenly. The HT inverter based microwaves are also much

better at defrosting than HT transformer based microwaves.

As you say, the correct (enclosed with adjustable vent) cookware is

vital, unfortunately I have found it hard to find more decent sized,

quality microwave cookware (the hard missile cone thermosetting plastic

type), I only see the small, softer, lower quality stuff on sale in UK

shops now, however Pirex casseroles, with covers, are a good substitute.

Irene de Villiers wrote:

> steve wrote:>

>

>> Microwave fish is " nasty " .

>>

>

> As with everything else, in cooking or any other activity - there is a

> right way and a wrong way.

> Microwave cooking is no different - so you need to discuss what you did

> to get the fish " nasty " , and then you can find out how to cook correctly

> in a microwave:-))

>

> Common errors with microwaving fish:

> * Putting it in as one big piece.

> * Failing to put the pieces in a circle to get even cooking.

> * Failing to cover it to preserve juice and flavour.

> * Using incorrect cookware instead of microwave cookware.

> * Overcooking.

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

> --

> Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

> P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

> www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

> Proverb:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it.

>

>

>

>

> Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

>

[Guest guest]

On Feb 10, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Irene de Villiers wrote:

>

>

> steve wrote:

> >  I've used

> > colloidal silver to resolve stomach flu when nothing else would

> work because

> > of it's effect on the metabolism of some bacteria causing it to

> stop and

> > killing them.

>

> There's no question silver will kill bacteria - it's how heavy metal

> poisoning works :-))

>

People really have to look deeper than whether their symptoms are

resolved. I always think in regards to silver, yes and amoxicillin

would have worked too without the metal exposure. If we started

selling collodial mercury in the internet people would be posting

amazing testimonials within the week...

[Guest guest]

cbwillis9 wrote:

>>My fellow homeopath friend with argyria used to think that way

>>too,

>>believed all the hype about colloidal silver " made the right way "

>>etc... Now she has to live with it, looking like a corpse.

>

>

> That bad, huh? And a homeopath to boot? You'd think they would

> know better.

They would. She became a homeopath after getting argyria, to try to

improve it. (It's very slow to improve.)

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc, AASCA, MCSSA, D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

[Guest guest]

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:11 PM, Irene de Villiers wrote:

> It talks about friction but a lot more about fiction.

> It has the usual baloney people spread around about " radiation " , which

> has nuclear radiation confused with electromagnetic radiation.

> Read something real!!!

> This is not!

> One example. It says:

> [Radiation, as defined by physics terminology, is " the electromagnetic

> waves emitted by the atoms and molecules of a radioactive substance

> as a

> result of nuclear decay. " ]

> This is a definition of NUCLEAR radiation. That's what is used in

> atomic

> bombs and nuclear power stations and has stuff all to do with

> microwave

> ovens. To radiate just means to spread it around in all directions.

> You

> still have to state WHAT is radiating - whether it is heat, nuclear

> subatomic particles or radio waves or light rays. In the case of

> microwaves it is NOT nuclear decay particles. It is radio waves.

> So whoever wrote that needs to go learn physics 101 or some such. High

> school physics would suffice, but it's apparently missing.

>

>

Irene, it is all electromagnetic radiation, just different frequencies.

See http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html

Hans Conser

Your personal physics coach

: )