Jo's starter

[Guest guest]

Hi All

Unless you have been talking about me for two years (my ego tells me that

this is unlikely....), I have stumbled back just as I get a mention! I have

been ill for a while - an accident with a big steel pin in the head, but

getting better, thank you...- and unable to use the computer, so only

rejoined the list for No.45 - a few days ago. And wow! - there is Sprite

with a memory.....)

To set the record straight - the 25% starter (one quart to one gallon) is

more than my usual but by no means unknown in my brews. I always use a

minimum of 10% starter but, on the rare occasions when I have a weak batch

or a thin baby, I give it all an extra treat by upping the starter and

leaving it a bit longer. Also - if I have lots of spares, I sometimes take

them out of their storage jars and chuck them into one big brew with a fresh

mix and lots of starter - it wakes them up and turns them friendly once

again.... )

My own strain (I think Sprite had one a few years back?) is still very

potent and breeds like bunnies.....

Good to be back - but I am a little slower than I used to be, and sad to

hear that Bob is no longer with us.

Hugs

Jo

-

> From: WaterSprite1@...

>Subject: Re: Thanks

>You're welcome:) Actually, if you follow the rule of thumb that 10% of

>the brew should be starter, you would actually need 12.8 ounces of

>starter for each one gallon batch. To my best recollection Jo of

>Scotland, who was on this list, and may still be(?), used 1 quart of

>starter, and she had a very potent strain of kombucha.

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[Guest guest]

Wow! Welcome Home there Jo!!!!!

Me thinks I had a psychic experience, you popped into my head just as

you popped back on the list:) I did just mention the 25% starter, as it

was what the recipe you had sent me, when I got one of your SCOBYs,

called for. It remained true to brew for about 5 generations then

gradually and sadly, I might add, mutated to be the same as my others.

But I did get to enjoy the " kick " for a little while at least.

So sorry to hear about your accident. But glad to hear you are still

with us and hopefully still getting better. Can't keep you strong s

down:) Not for long anyway. Well, got to end the chatty part, but know

that I am so happy you are back on the list. If you can, add your pic to

the photo album so everyone can see our lovely friend Jo in Scotland.

God Bless, All Love, Sprite:)

PS:

Have you heard from Cyril? E me off list if you have. Thanks

Luv, Sprite

" When you drink the water, remember the spring. "

 Chinese proverb

Check out my Kombucha Information page, it has links to all kinds of KT

info and more:

<A HREF= " http://www.geocities.com/ladyfangs.geo/Page5.html " >Sprite's

Kombucha Page</A>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sprite,

So I am curious about this...about " strains " and mutation of a " strain " .

If you start two batches with the same tea and same amounts of sugar, but use

different strains, these turn out differently,?

I have had one strain only for about a year now so I don't have anything to

compare my brew to, except itself.

Might it be true that a " strain " is a direct product of it's environment. Just

different microbial results based on temperatures, what is in the air, sugar and

water used, preparation, fermentation duration etc. And maybe it takes a certain

number of generations to create a new strain?

Could I ask you why you think that Jo's strain mutated to be the same as your

others?

Do you have other strains that have remained " true " ?

I mean, I need some help on this, I've been stumped by all the talk of strains

ever since, ahhh!

Can I create my own strain(s)?

It is even theorized that Kombucha is a mutation of MOV.

Any Opinions on this one...'

I need some booch after that, whoa.

Beau B.

Re: Jo's starter

It remained true to brew for about 5 generations then

gradually and sadly, I might add, mutated to be the same as my others.

[Guest guest]

Hello Jo,

I am a newbie but have heard wonderful things about you. Welcome back! I am

looking forward to learning more about KT from you. I am so glad that you

survived your accident. God Bless you, what a fighter you must be!

" May the Great and Wise Wolf guide your path " Myrna

[Guest guest]

Beau,

You wrote;

" So I am curious about this...about " strains " and mutation of a

" strain " . If you start two batches with the same tea and same amounts of

sugar, but use different strains, these turn out differently,? "

Before we go any further, I know there are some who share my beliefs,

and those who don't, So what I say is from my own actual experience.

My answer to the above is yes. I have had a strain from Ed Kasper and a

strain from Jack Barclay which I started at the same time. Using the

same everything including tetley tea. The resulting KT while close in

comparison, would come out different as far as fizz for one instance,

and one be slightly sweeter than the other. Also in taste while again

both were good, the flavor from Ed's was much better than the flavor of

Jack's. This is how I ended up with a 4 year old bottle of Jack's while

Ed's was all used up. Also Ed's strain seemed to do wonders for my

breathing and congestion problems. More so than Jack's. yet around the

same time I was reading list members posting testimonials about how

Jack's strain seemed to be so helpful with their arthritis. While no lab

tests were done in this area, maybe some of Roussin's analysis

of different cultures from different growers, might shed some light on

this.

   " I have had one strain only for about a year now so I don't have

anything to compare my brew to, except itself. Might it be true that a

" strain " is a direct product of it's environment. Just different

microbial results based on temperatures, what is in the air, sugar and

water used, preparation, fermentation duration etc. "

I do believe that is kind of true. If you know a little about wine

making, I think the same principle applies. If you go to France and get

a grape vine from a vineyard, lets say a chardonnay, (I don't know too

much about what wine comes from where) but anyway a vine from a vineyard

that has been producing fine wines from those vines for many years, and

bring that vine to Massachusetts, and plant it. Then make wine from it,

it will not make the same fine wine that it did when it was in France.

It has to do with the yeasts, by returning the must back to the land the

yeasts in that area makes it possible to make that wine in that area

only. It would take centuries if not longer, to build up those yeast in

the new area, to finally be able to make that same wine.

" And maybe it takes a certain number of generations to create a new

strain? Could I ask you why you think that Jo's strain mutated to be the

same as your others? "

Oh yes indeed that is when I really believed there was something in my

thinking that was right. When I first got Jo's strain (and I followed

her directions to a " T " ) and I set it up to brew, the first two days it

was so active, I'd look at it it was up top, an hour or two latter it

was at the bottom, then later in the middle, I never knew where I would

find it, It was extra fizzy in 4 days, and had to harvest at day 6 it

was ready, Not tart, not sweet, just right between, which is the way

like it.

After drinking it I noticed my energy levels were through the roof! What

kick. And why do I say it mutated? well it kept producing great KT, but

after about 4 weeks and 4 brews later I noticed the energy lift was

still there but nowhere near as powerful, eventually drinking it was the

same as dinking the others, and now the scobies were as active in the

jar, and it had to brew 7 days to get to the sweet tart stage just like

my others. And the flavor was now less sparkly and comparable to my

others.

" Do you have other strains that have remained " true " ? "

Not really, they all seemed to end up producing the same KT except of

course the european and oriental strains that I got from Ari, but they

were different because they were both made with green tea. But they

changed too because the flavor was really good at first, but eventually

got rather bitter no matter what I did.

" I mean, I need some help on this, I've been stumped by all the talk of

strains ever since, ahhh! Can I create my own strain(s)? "

I believe that just by brewing yours you are creating your own strain. I

believe it will adapt to your surroundings.

" It is even theorized that Kombucha is a mutation of MOV. Any Opinions

on this one...' "

I've thought about it too. and I wouldn't be surprised to find kombucha

was the result of something Dr. Kombu did to or with MOV. That would

explain why it is so important to not contaminate Kombucha with live MOV

such as apple cider vinegar. One might be undoing something important

that was done. But, I'm not really sure on that. And probably never will

be.

" I need some booch after that, whoa.

Beau B. "

LOL, Me too:) I have answered to the best of my ability. and please

note, these are just my personal conclusions, they are not scientific,

nor are they proven as anything more than what I have witnessed in my

own brews and what I believe to be what has happened.

Luv, Sprite

" When you drink the water, remember the spring. "

 Chinese proverb

Check out my Kombucha Information page, it has links to all kinds of KT

info and more:

<A HREF= " http://www.geocities.com/ladyfangs.geo/Page5.html " >Sprite's

Kombucha Page</A>