Re: Vax $care

[Guest guest]

Tifanie, you bring up a good point. My prediction for your plight is pretty

gloomy as I don't

believe I've ever known anyone to bring a parent or relative over to the other

side once the

battle lines are drawn. I know of grandparents who have turned parents into the

police for

not complying with vaccination programs and you can literally be sent to jail or

have your

kids taken away, just for trying to intelligently protect them from the

potential horrors of

vaccination illness. We do not really live in a free country.

I vaccinated my kids back in the '60s (when no one knew better) but now I've

completely

changed. I fought the law on this for 25 years for pets, now I'm fighting it for

livestock and

basically it's a LOSING BATTLE. The law will put me in jail for recommending

what I believe.

Being a scientist, I can take all those statistics you quoted and blow them out

of the water

as phony balony numbers, BUT that doesn't matter. It's all about

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

(and liability protection for the government and the medicos). Some are truly

good-

intentioned, just ignorant, but most of them don't give a crap about the true

health of our

children, pets or livestock.

Ghetto people, smoking households, and people who feed their kids sugar and junk

food

should probably give their kids every vaccine known, because these diseases of

childhood

are designed to " wipe out the weak DNA " and they will. Poor people in the 1st

world are

now creating the FAT generation and the SICK generation. Most will not live as

long as

their parents (that has never happened before in history!). Welfare defeats the

species-

healing principles of Natural Selection and Survival of the Fittest.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile someone like you, who have revealed their feelings to their parents (a

mistake

which is NOTHING BUT BAD!!! What were you thinking????), have three choices

1) Cop to your parents outdated vision and vaccinate your kids

2) Refuse to vaccinate and risk the possibly permanent disownment and dishonor

in the

family, and possible legal problems.

3) Lie (God gave us a creative brain so we can fight devils and monsters!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks to the folks at Coca Cola, Mcs and many others, infectious disease

IS rising

shamefully in the 1st world. We almost had many of these diseases licked (mostly

by good

food and SANITATION, NOT due to vaccination), but along came all this sugar and

artificial

food, not to mention pollution of the air, water and land, and we are back to

killing our

immune systems again. In some ways, I'm glad I raised my kids when I was young

and

dumb.

Will Winter

[Guest guest]

Will,

Thank you for putting it out there and telling the truth! I am so thankful my

one dd is no longer getting shots for the kids and I am still praying about the

other.

One thing you did not mention is that vac are not working! I have heard of so

many cases of kids with tetanus even though they were up to date with the vac!!!

Plus many other of the vac are not for the strains that are out there. I

personally believe that the shots will lower resistance to the new strain and

make one more susceptible.

My 2 cents!

Kimi

*****************************************************************

*****************************************************************

" Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

[Guest guest]

Tifanie,

This is one of those difficult gut-level choices in life. There is

risk with every thing we choose and it is difficult to choose the

action that others believe has more risk. There have been large

amounts of information written about the negative effects of

vaccinations and that is available on web sites and gathered

together in places like " Mothering Magazine " . Like breast-feeding,

Home birth, and Raw milk often sides are taken based on fear,

sometimes well-founded fear (such as those who lived through the

polio outbreak) but often fear keeps people from seeing all sides of

the issue.

Large corporations make lots of money from exploiting our fears and

marketing questionable products. They can pour tons of money into

advertising campaigns and influence government officials. The

resulting situation often leaves those who choose differently to act

illegally. This is the crime - taking away our freedom to choose

the risks we believe in. I've always made sure to live in states

where I have this freedom (usually a wavier is available, though it

is not always well known- In California, I had to tell disbelieving

people to just turn the immunization form over, it was right there,

to their astonishment!)

My parents never have agreed with what I am doing from home births

to home school to organics/traditional foods, but as my children

become responsible, healthy, non-vaccinated (except tetanus),

educated, young adults they have began to have their fears lessened.

My father once asked me if what I was saying was just my opinion. I

quickly sent him info from 'experts' backing my decision. It didn't

change his mind, but at least he read both sides of the argument.

(He should have known, he taught me to always do my research first!)

It's our health, our future, and our children. Once we educate

ourselves about all sides of an issue, we take the risk we feel is

the least, and responsibility for that decision. Our parents,

hopefully, will eventually see how much thought and care we put into

our decisions, even if they never `come around'. After all, they

have to make the same risk analysis with their own lives and I would

allot them the same freedom to believe in what they feel is right.

Hopefully, without judgment, we can still respect each other's

decisions. I always thank my parents for extra information and tell

them " I'll think about that " , and of course, I will-we can never be

too educated.

Janice

[Guest guest]

One of my favorite quotes is from Schopenhauer, He says, " All truth passes

through three states. First it is

ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being

self-evident. " Much of what we Trad

Foods people believe is in about the second stage.

Therese

[Guest guest]

Janice,

I was just curious why you do get the tetanus VAX. For your children. I do

not vax. Either, but was curious why you do get this one- if I may ask???

Just curious what the reasoning was behind it since you obviously don't

believe in the others.????

Tara O.

......My parents never have agreed with what I am doing from home births

to home school to organics/traditional foods, but as my children

become responsible, healthy, non-vaccinated (except tetanus),.....

Janice

[Guest guest]

Just had to jump in on this...I am reading a fabulous book called The

Impossible Cure by Amy Lansky. It is about homeopathy and even mentions

our very own beth Buchele! It describes how " routine use of vaccinations

are destroying our collective health in slow and insidious ways " . She links the

rise of autism, ADD, and other learning and behavioral disorders along with

severe allergies and various autoimmune disorders that have risen

precipitously over the past 20 years with the increased and mandated use of

vaccines. She says that (according to Mercola) the number of different

disease antigens that are recommended for the children by the time they are

five years old has more than tripled in the last two decades. She goes on the

theorize that the problem may arise from vaccines stimulating a different

branch of the immune system (the humoral or Th2 function) rather than the

cell-mediated or Th1 that is effected when a person actually experiences a

disease. And then of course, there are the toxins used in vaccines such as the

commonly known mercury...It describes that vaccines are also suspected in

the dramatic rise of asthma, diabetes and intestinal problems such as Crohn's

disease. The book is about curing her son's autism, a problem which she also

attributes to vaccinations. Kathy, you must surely be familiar with this book!

" The Other " Kathy

[Guest guest]

Tara, In reference to Tetanus, after reviewing the research and

weighing out the risks, and the antidotes if the disease was

contracted, I felt that since we were going to live on a farm and be

around animals and dirt, we had a higher risk of being exposed to

Tetanus.

I weighed out the options if that happened and felt this was one I

was willing to risk the effects of the vaccine. My children were 7

and 12 by then, so I wasn't dealing with babies, and young immune

systems (which are currently being assaulted with more and more

vaccines within the first weeks of life). Basically, I am originally

from the city, and I might have bought into the fear factor on that

one.

But like I had mentioned earlier, we all do our research and make

the choice that's right for us, because we have to live with the

results and know we made the best decision with the info we had at

the time. Vaccines are also not all or nothing you can pick and

choose, most things are not all bad or good, rather they are good in

certain situations (like hospitals for broken bones), but not forced

on everyone, in every situation.

Janice

>

>

> Janice,

> I was just curious why you do get the tetanus VAX. For your

children. I do

> not vax. Either, but was curious why you do get this one- if I may

ask???

> Just curious what the reasoning was behind it since you obviously

don't

> believe in the others.????

> Tara O.

>

> .....My parents never have agreed with what I am doing from home

births

> to home school to organics/traditional foods, but as my children

> become responsible, healthy, non-vaccinated (except tetanus),.....

>

> Janice

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tara-

I am curious, what shoudl we do if we do step on a rusty nail? (or if our babes

do?)

[Guest guest]

Janice,

Were you able to get just a tetanus shot??? I know most of them have something

else in them too.

Will, May I ask you your thought on shots for pets??? I have done them up to

now but really am not sure I like it.

Kimi

*****************************************************************

*****************************************************************

" Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

[Guest guest]

Clean it good, bandage it, apply ointment, up your coconut oil intake, soak the

wound every night and re-bandage, take CLO (cod liver oil). Did I miss

anything???

LOL. Other words rusty nails are not any more of a risk than any open puncher

wound. Poking your finger with a sewing needle is just as risky as a rusty nail.

I know of more cases of tetanus with people who have had the shot than with out,

so please do not worry. The risk is there no matter what. Use good common since!

That will keep you all safer than anything.

Kimi

*****************************************************************

*****************************************************************

" Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

[Guest guest]

-I was able to get just the tetanus portion in both WI and St.

Louis. They usually want to give a 'DTP' which is Diphtheria,

Tetanus, and Pertussis (whopping cough). I asked to only have a

tetanus portion for my children. They had to order it to get it to

our small town, but they did. I politely listened to the normal

talk on the importance of vaccines, and that was all. Adults can

get just tetanus `boosters' usually with out a problem.

-- In , " Kimi " <kwolffden@...> wrote:

>

> Janice,

>

> Were you able to get just a tetanus shot??? I know most of them

have something else in them too.

>

> Will, May I ask you your thought on shots for pets??? I have done

them up to now but really am not sure I like it.

>

> Kimi

> *****************************************************************

> *****************************************************************

> " Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

>

>

[Guest guest]

By the way, I would be very uncomfortable talking about not

vaccinating with those that follow a conventional diet, especially

babies that are formula fed. Breastfeeding passes on the immunities

from the mother, and extended breastfeeding continues to pass those

on. The milk actually changes to created antibodies that are needed

in the baby or toddler, that are not needed in the mother (a

fascinating piece of evidence of the holistic nature of life). So

with out that and a Traditional Foods diet giving the (to quote

Will) " benefits of eating a nutrient-dense, mineral-rich, full-

fibered, naturally-ripened, enzyme-laden, vitamin-endowed, fat-

healthy, pasture-fed, non-toxic, life-giving and delicious palate of

wonderful foods " , one may have a much harder time protecting

themselves from the diseases the vaccines are supposed to prevent.

Janice

[Guest guest]

Janice,

Are you saying that I should vaccinate my 4 y/o who was not breat fed? She was

for a short time, but she became very ill and I lost my milk, so she was not

breast fed long.

Carol

[Guest guest]

From what I've learned, tetanus is one that is just as effective after as it

is before an injury. There are the cases, however, when you may get cut and

don't know by what that the vax would shield you from.

We have the measles at our house:-) When my kids were born I believed that

vaxing them was the right thing to do. In the past 2 years, however, we've

decided differently. So, he came down with the measles last week and it

turns out that his MMR was overlooked so he never had it. Even those who

ARE vaxed against MMR are only covered 65-85% depending on how many shots

you've had. That's an interesting little tidbit that I bet the docs haven't

shared much if at all. I realize that because he has a strong immune system

or whatever, this was a mild case but from all of the research I've been

doing on it, it's rare that measles (either kind) or mumps is severe enough

to cause permanent damage or death and mostly, it's an inconvenience because

you have to be quarantined for the contagious stage of the illness which is

2 weeks. That's been the tough part. The other tricky part with measles is

that you don't even know you have them or are contagious for the first week

or so until the rash breaks out. That's what makes German Measles (aka

rubella) so dangerous because it can cause birth defects if a pregnant woman

in her first trimester is infected. Luckily most adults are immune either

because of vaccinations or because they had them as a child.

Anyway, I haven't read this whole thread but I have done extensive research

on it myself over the past couple of years and for me, it comes down to

looking at each vaccination and making a choice that's right for us. There

are some things for which we are willing to take a risk of contracting and

others not. For an infant, I would NEVER again keep to the schedule that

the government lays out. It's too much, too soon and all at once for their

body to handle. If we chose to do any vaccinations, I would insist that the

combo ones (MMR, DPT, etc) be separate and that we do one at a time. I'm

doubtful that we would do any at all however. After our Rubella experience

though, if it was a girl I might consider having her vaccinated against that

if she doesn't get it naturally as a child.

This is a tough subject. People read the information and take it in in

different ways. Yeah for freedom of choice!

Krista

Krista Boos

952-707-1263

babymonkeytoes@...

Creative Memories Consultant

Memory Keeping at Its Best!

Organized Life Organization Consulting

Creating Order from Chaos!

[Guest guest]

Carol, Each mom has to evaluate the information available and make

their own choice. I put that post out because I need to be mindful

that not every one is on a Traditional Foods diet, maybe even

someone reading these posts.

You can certainly give your child nourishing food after you stop

breastfeeding, and she did receive immunities at first. There is a

large amount of information in Weston A Price Foundation on

nutritional baby food. And of course, by now she is a healthy 4

year old that is continuing to receive nutrient-rich foods and

building her own immune system.

I in no way meant to say if there was a break, or even never started

in breastfeeding that she should be immunized, only that health

starts with a strong immune system so we can fight off diseases, of

any kind, and recover quicker from those we might get.

Possible exposure is also an issue. We could immunize for many more

diseases, but we usually don't unless we are going into a

contaminated area. I knew that my children weren't going to be

exposed to a high level of these diseases, so that also weighed in

my decision. Even when I took my 7 month old to Russia, and they

had a high incidence of Diphtheria, she wasn't exposed to it, so I

still choose not to vaccinate. I had a MD back me up on that too.

Then there is the risk of reaction to the vaccine. My husband

almost died from a Malaria vaccine given in the West Indies; his

heart stopped. Obviously, they got it going again, but we look at

the possible side effects (they are required to tell you about them)

very seriously. Yes, it's only very few, but if you or your child

is one of the very few, the statistics don't mean too much.

Please understand, I trust each mother's opinion to do the best for

her child. She knows her children best and all the little details,

and you know your child best too.

Janice

-- In , " Carol Frisk " <carolfrisk@...>

wrote:

>

> Janice,

>

> Are you saying that I should vaccinate my 4 y/o who was not breat

fed? She was for a short time, but she became very ill and I lost

my milk, so she was not breast fed long.

>

> Carol

>

>

[Guest guest]

Janice,

I have heard in several of the pet groups here in and maybe

even MSN that once a dog gets a vacination they dont need to be

redone. The only one that leagally you have to do is rabies. I have

been leary to get the shots and leary not to get them. There is so

much out there that may or maynot be true.

One of the problems with vacines for people is that they were putting

copper or mercury in them. So now they send those to 3rd world

countrys from what I understand and we are getting ones with less

stuff in them.

So I am not totally sure but I would be supportive of anyone who did

not want to get shots for their children or pets. I lean towards that

side, I just need to get up the courage to carry through with it.

Guess I am whimpy. I am working on that though.

Sandy

>

> Janice,

>

> Were you able to get just a tetanus shot??? I know most of them

have something else in them too.

>

> Will, May I ask you your thought on shots for pets??? I have done

them up to now but really am not sure I like it.

>

> Kimi

> *****************************************************************

> *****************************************************************

> " Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kimi,

There is a legal 3-year rabies vaccine. But which is better?? None

of our livestock are vaccinated for anything, except the dogs-due to

legalities. Or, if we have to take a horse to a place that requires

one, such as a show.

Oh yea, our animals have extended nursing also-they pretty much wean

themselves around a year, or the mother does. Our filly got rave

reviews from our farrier who couldn't believe she hasn't had any

grain at over a year, and wasn't weaned for 12 months. Her mother

came through the winter looking great, with just a little grain in

the deepest of winter, but these horses aren't worked hard (I wish I

had more time for riding), so high quality grass and alfalfa are all

they need. Oopps, I got a little off the subject. missing my

horses, I guess.

Janice

> >

> > Janice,

> >

> > Were you able to get just a tetanus shot??? I know most of them

> have something else in them too.

> >

> > Will, May I ask you your thought on shots for pets??? I have

done

> them up to now but really am not sure I like it.

> >

> > Kimi

> > *****************************************************************

> > *****************************************************************

> > " Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kimi, Sandy, --Sorry I got confused, I'm new to this great way of

communicating! This site is really active!

> > >

> > > Janice,

> > >

> > > Were you able to get just a tetanus shot??? I know most of

them

> > have something else in them too.

> > >

> > > Will, May I ask you your thought on shots for pets??? I have

> done

> > them up to now but really am not sure I like it.

> > >

> > > Kimi

> > >

*****************************************************************

> > >

*****************************************************************

> > > " Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to His cross I cling. "

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

" One of the problems with vacines for people is that they were putting

copper or mercury in them. So now they send those to 3rd world

countrys from what I understand and we are getting ones with less

stuff in them. "

The Mercury was replaced with aluminum. Do a Google search for Vaccination

Ingredients. It will open your eyes and turn your stomach.

Krista

Krista Boos

952-707-1263

babymonkeytoes@...

Creative Memories Consultant

Memory Keeping at Its Best!

Organized Life Organization Consulting

Creating Order from Chaos!