Public health section of the NMC register ?

[Guest guest]

Is this where the new Masters in Public Health registrants would 'sit'? There

seems to be a feeling in the PH Dept that staffing at PCT level should await

these newly trained persons.

Ruth

Cowley wrote:

> Interesting question Woody. At the same time as claiming their great

> victory and saying they have been campaigning for this proposed/possible new

> register for five years, the CPHVA are also saying they don't really have

> any idea how it will work. The proposed new register is an option in the

> statute and as far as I am concerned it should only come into being when

> there is a group of registrants that can meet the same criteria as any other

> aspiring profession. At present, there is no qualification called

> 'community specialist in public health' and no staff who identify themselves

> by that name. It is a good name that could be put to good use, but that is

> not a reason for establishing a professional register.

>

> Don't forget that the health visiting register does still exist as one of

> the options too: it might even be a popular one! It is definitely being

> carried forward. As long as it exists, the title 'registered health

> visitor' is protected and there will be health visitor members on Council.

> As soon as it is replaced or relabelled, anyone (trained or not) will be

> able to call themselves a health visitor, the standards and knowledge base

> will evaporate and so will the health visitor representation on Council. The

> rather ominous message from Maureen implied that, even though the

> new standards for health visiting have been ratified by UKCC, they may be

> held up and not implemented until everyone else has decided what they want.

> I hope I have misinterpreted that, but feel a bit pessimistic about it.

>

> I received a copy, today, of the proposed standards for public health

> practitioners in relation to the new register that you describe; I will post

> details on Senate when I have had a chance to look at them. From

> presentations at the UKPHA conference 2 weeks ago, it looked both as though

> it would become a statutory register quite soon (with Health Professions

> Council) and as though the original multi-disciplinary vision has been

> firmly squeezed out; a 'one size fits all' (rather like the NMC) is being

> heavily promoted. Pertinent correspondence gives the opposite view in

> today's HSJ.

>

> Looking at the Nursing and Midwifery Order and its implications for health

> visiting is one of the three key issues for debate at Danbury on 6th April

> if people are interested. Best wishes

>

>

>

> albertwoodburn wrote:

>

> > Dear Senate,

> >

> > In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

> > in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

> > proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

> > specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

> > already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

> > hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

> > register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

> > higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

> > professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

> > years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

> > anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

> >

> > Perhaps that is a silly question....

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Woody.

> > New address from April 2nd:

> > Professor of public health

> > School of Health Care Practice

> > APU

> > 41 Park Road

> > Chelmsford

> > Essex CM1 1LL

> > (switchboard 01245-493131)

> >

> > I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

> > new contact, when I know it !

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What worries me about a new PH register is that all HVs with their more

medical model background will, once more, be deemed underqualified - and the

cycle begins again. Why society cannot accept a medico/psycho/social hybrid

that works so well seems a puzzle to me.

Ruth

albertwoodburn wrote:

> Dear Senate,

>

> In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

> in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

> proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

> specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

> already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

> hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

> register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

> higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

> professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

> years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

> anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

>

> Perhaps that is a silly question....

>

> Best wishes,

> Woody.

> New address from April 2nd:

> Professor of public health

> School of Health Care Practice

> APU

> 41 Park Road

> Chelmsford

> Essex CM1 1LL

> (switchboard 01245-493131)

>

> I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

> new contact, when I know it !

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One question - How long will PCO's last anyway? No doubt a broader PH register

will emerge eventually. Ruth

albertwoodburn wrote:

> Dear Ruth,

>

> The balance between MPH/MSc qualifications, external examinations (a la FPHM

Parts 1 & 2), accreditation of a portfolio of achievements and length/duration of

experience in relevant areas of practice (a la Healthwork UK standards) required

for registration on the proposed new bit of the HPC for public health

specialists is not yet known. In London we are guessing that for the first year

or two the embryonic Register will have to be quite flexible and individuals

with suitable 'grandparenting' should be enabled to register their expertise,

but over time the rules are likely to be fairly rigid (whatever they become).

Unless Masters courses contribute to registration, I doubt if they will survive

(the writing is on the wall for traditional Health Promotion Masters, for

example). With friends in SHEPS we are working on guidance for PCTs as

employers ~ this feels a bit like being a mouse in amongst a herd of elephants,

just now ! The shortage of HVs and SNs on PCT or StHA Boards with titles like

" Director of Nursing " or " Director of Public Health " bodes ill for deep and

sensitive understanding by the new primary care organisations...

>

> Woody.

>

>

> > >

> > > > Dear Senate,

> > > >

> > > > In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

> > > > in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

> > > > proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

> > > > specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

> > > > already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

> > > > hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

> > > > register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

> > > > higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

> > > > professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

> > > > years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

> > > > anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps that is a silly question....

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Woody.

> > > > New address from April 2nd:

> > > > Professor of public health

> > > > School of Health Care Practice

> > > > APU

> > > > 41 Park Road

> > > > Chelmsford

> > > > Essex CM1 1LL

> > > > (switchboard 01245-493131)

> > > >

> > > > I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

> > > > new contact, when I know it !

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Senate,

In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

Perhaps that is a silly question....

Best wishes,

Woody.

New address from April 2nd:

Professor of public health

School of Health Care Practice

APU

41 Park Road

Chelmsford

Essex CM1 1LL

(switchboard 01245-493131)

I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

new contact, when I know it !

[Guest guest]

Interesting question Woody. At the same time as claiming their great

victory and saying they have been campaigning for this proposed/possible new

register for five years, the CPHVA are also saying they don't really have

any idea how it will work. The proposed new register is an option in the

statute and as far as I am concerned it should only come into being when

there is a group of registrants that can meet the same criteria as any other

aspiring profession. At present, there is no qualification called

'community specialist in public health' and no staff who identify themselves

by that name. It is a good name that could be put to good use, but that is

not a reason for establishing a professional register.

Don't forget that the health visiting register does still exist as one of

the options too: it might even be a popular one! It is definitely being

carried forward. As long as it exists, the title 'registered health

visitor' is protected and there will be health visitor members on Council.

As soon as it is replaced or relabelled, anyone (trained or not) will be

able to call themselves a health visitor, the standards and knowledge base

will evaporate and so will the health visitor representation on Council. The

rather ominous message from Maureen implied that, even though the

new standards for health visiting have been ratified by UKCC, they may be

held up and not implemented until everyone else has decided what they want.

I hope I have misinterpreted that, but feel a bit pessimistic about it.

I received a copy, today, of the proposed standards for public health

practitioners in relation to the new register that you describe; I will post

details on Senate when I have had a chance to look at them. From

presentations at the UKPHA conference 2 weeks ago, it looked both as though

it would become a statutory register quite soon (with Health Professions

Council) and as though the original multi-disciplinary vision has been

firmly squeezed out; a 'one size fits all' (rather like the NMC) is being

heavily promoted. Pertinent correspondence gives the opposite view in

today's HSJ.

Looking at the Nursing and Midwifery Order and its implications for health

visiting is one of the three key issues for debate at Danbury on 6th April

if people are interested. Best wishes

albertwoodburn wrote:

> Dear Senate,

>

> In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

> in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

> proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

> specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

> already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

> hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

> register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

> higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

> professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

> years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

> anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

>

> Perhaps that is a silly question....

>

> Best wishes,

> Woody.

> New address from April 2nd:

> Professor of public health

> School of Health Care Practice

> APU

> 41 Park Road

> Chelmsford

> Essex CM1 1LL

> (switchboard 01245-493131)

>

> I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

> new contact, when I know it !

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Congratulations on your chair, Woody! And well deserved.

From: " albertwoodburn " <woody@...>

Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:01:30 -0000

Subject: Public health section of the NMC register ?

Send reply to:

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

Dear Senate,

In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

Perhaps that is a silly question....

Best wishes,

Woody.

New address from April 2nd:

Professor of public health

School of Health Care Practice

APU

41 Park Road

Chelmsford

Essex CM1 1LL

(switchboard 01245-493131)

I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

new contact, when I know it !

[Guest guest]

Dear Ruth,

The balance between MPH/MSc qualifications, external examinations (a la FPHM

Parts 1 & 2), accreditation of a portfolio of achievements and length/duration of

experience in relevant areas of practice (a la Healthwork UK standards) required

for registration on the proposed new bit of the HPC for public health

specialists is not yet known. In London we are guessing that for the first year

or two the embryonic Register will have to be quite flexible and individuals

with suitable 'grandparenting' should be enabled to register their expertise,

but over time the rules are likely to be fairly rigid (whatever they become).

Unless Masters courses contribute to registration, I doubt if they will survive

(the writing is on the wall for traditional Health Promotion Masters, for

example). With friends in SHEPS we are working on guidance for PCTs as

employers ~ this feels a bit like being a mouse in amongst a herd of elephants,

just now ! The shortage of HVs and SNs on PCT or StHA Boards with titles like

" Director of Nursing " or " Director of Public Health " bodes ill for deep and

sensitive understanding by the new primary care organisations...

Woody.

> >

> > > Dear Senate,

> > >

> > > In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

> > > in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

> > > proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

> > > specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

> > > already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

> > > hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

> > > register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

> > > higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

> > > professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

> > > years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

> > > anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

> > >

> > > Perhaps that is a silly question....

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Woody.

> > > New address from April 2nd:

> > > Professor of public health

> > > School of Health Care Practice

> > > APU

> > > 41 Park Road

> > > Chelmsford

> > > Essex CM1 1LL

> > > (switchboard 01245-493131)

> > >

> > > I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

> > > new contact, when I know it !

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

There has been some interesting correspondence in the HSJ about the lack of

nursing leadership within PCTs. It echoes for me the establishment of

Trusts when we persuaded s, the then Chief Nurse, to challenge

it and support the need for Directors of Nursing on Trust Boards with

devleopment. Eventually we won and many have done excellent work even if

their salaries have generally been less than other Board members.

This is gossip but I heard a couple of weeks ago- that the DoH are to put

something out on nursing leadership in PCTs - when I raised with some senior

people - I was told to watch this space. So we wait and see.

I am finding in PCTs where I am working where there is no Director of

Nursing or only lip service paid to the post - there is no development

within the nursing professions and a very manergerial agenda rather than a

ledership one.

All I can thibk is that they will in time realise their mistakes

Margaret

Re: Public health section of the NMC register ?

> Dear Ruth,

>

> The balance between MPH/MSc qualifications, external examinations (a la

FPHM Parts 1 & 2), accreditation of a portfolio of achievements and

length/duration of experience in relevant areas of practice (a la Healthwork

UK standards) required for registration on the proposed new bit of the HPC

for public health specialists is not yet known. In London we are guessing

that for the first year or two the embryonic Register will have to be quite

flexible and individuals with suitable 'grandparenting' should be enabled to

register their expertise, but over time the rules are likely to be fairly

rigid (whatever they become). Unless Masters courses contribute to

registration, I doubt if they will survive (the writing is on the wall for

traditional Health Promotion Masters, for example). With friends in SHEPS

we are working on guidance for PCTs as employers ~ this feels a bit like

being a mouse in amongst a herd of elephants, just now ! The shortage of

HVs and SNs on PCT or StHA Boards with titles like " Director of Nursing " or

" Director of Public Health " bodes ill for deep and sensitive understanding

by the new primary care organisations...

>

> Woody.

>

>

> > >

> > > > Dear Senate,

> > > >

> > > > In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London,

and

> > > > in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

> > > > proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

> > > > specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

> > > > already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

> > > > hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

> > > > register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

> > > > higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

> > > > professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

> > > > years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

> > > > anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system

?

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps that is a silly question....

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Woody.

> > > > New address from April 2nd:

> > > > Professor of public health

> > > > School of Health Care Practice

> > > > APU

> > > > 41 Park Road

> > > > Chelmsford

> > > > Essex CM1 1LL

> > > > (switchboard 01245-493131)

> > > >

> > > > I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of

my

> > > > new contact, when I know it !

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I think this is an issue and I talked to the UKCC rep at the CPHVA conference

last year about the postion of people describing themselves as Public Health

Specialist/ Nurse who have trained under the FPHM route (MPH and experiential

taining) but are not HVs. I received a non-committal shrug (indifference?

ignorance?) about the future registration of Public Health Specialists who are

nurses and was told there were no plans to recognise thisa group in the NMC.

This may have changed since November last year, but I was not hopeful.

The FPHM/Tripartite Group route is still very unclear how one continues past

obtaining an MPH (the position I am in now), especially if your employer did not

include the part 1 of the FPHM exam in your training. Portfolio competency

accreditation is being discussed, but I've seen no accademic institution or even

the Faculty itself grap this nettle and make some clear decisions.

Anyone know any different?

Bev

PHN

Rotherham PCT

Public health section of the NMC register ?

Dear Senate,

In the multi-disciplinary public health trainees group for London, and

in my own health authority, we have been discussing Klim McPherson's

proposals for a (voluntary but eventually statutory) Register of

specialist public health skills. For the minority of members who are

already on the UKCC Register, the alternatives are: the

hypothetical new register, the Faculty of public health medicine

register or the new public health section of the NMC, perhaps with

higher levels of practice recorded. What is clear is that all

professionals working in the public sector will, within a few

years, have to come under some regulatory professional body. Does

anyone know any actual details/features of the impending NMC system ?

Perhaps that is a silly question....

Best wishes,

Woody.

New address from April 2nd:

Professor of public health

School of Health Care Practice

APU

41 Park Road

Chelmsford

Essex CM1 1LL

(switchboard 01245-493131)

I lose my UCL email from this weekend- will need to notfy SENATE of my

new contact, when I know it !