Re: gH, IGF-I, and hypertrophy

[Guest guest]

> From: " Brad Schoenfeld " <highnrg123@...>

>

> Some thoughts, here. First, the pump following intense training can

> last for a couple hours, post exercise. This might be " transient "

> but if it is combined with a primed anabolic environment (as is the

> case in the immediate period following a workout), I would postulate

> that there is at least the potential for increasing the hypertrophic

> thrust, even in a fairly short period of time.

But the pump following intense training is not due to intracellular swelling

but rather fluid accumulation in the interstitial space. During repeated

high intensity muscle contractions, blood vessels in the muscle are

compressed. This compression " squeezes " plasma out of the blood and into

the interstitial space. In a normal muscle at rest, any movement of plasma

out of the blood into the interstitial space is balanced with an osmotic

effect which draws fluid back into the blood. High-intensity contractions

destroy this balance and results in interstitial fluid accumulation.

> involved, that the potential is there. What's more, I have read that

> cell swelling can actually be noticed more than 24 hours post

> exercise (can't remember the study), which by any standard isn't

> transient.

You're probably referring to papers on eccentric exercise, which shows

intracellular swelling due to muscular damage. However, bodybuilding type

training may not necessarily be accompanied by large amounts of cellular

damage, especially in experienced trainers.

> Actually, I've had the opportunity to speak with Dorian at length and

> his target for reps is 8 to 10 reps per set, which I would consider a

> moderate rep range.

I wasn't really arguing about Dorian's rep range. I was more referring to

his low-volume training (he did not do very many sets), and if I recall

correctly he did not use short rest periods.

Krieger

Graduate student, exercise science

Washington State University

" Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we

fail. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Guest guest]

> > From: " Brad Schoenfeld " <highnrg123@a...>

> >

> > Some thoughts, here. First, the pump following intense training

can

> > last for a couple hours, post exercise. This might be " transient "

> > but if it is combined with a primed anabolic environment (as is

the

> > case in the immediate period following a workout), I would

postulate

> > that there is at least the potential for increasing the

hypertrophic

> > thrust, even in a fairly short period of time.

>

> But the pump following intense training is not due to intracellular

swelling

> but rather fluid accumulation in the interstitial space. During

repeated

> high intensity muscle contractions, blood vessels in the muscle are

> compressed. This compression " squeezes " plasma out of the blood

and into

> the interstitial space. In a normal muscle at rest, any movement

of plasma

> out of the blood into the interstitial space is balanced with an

osmotic

> effect which draws fluid back into the blood. High-intensity

contractions

> destroy this balance and results in interstitial fluid accumulation.

Here is my take on the process: , during a moderate rep set set, the

veins taking blood out of working muscles collapse. However, the

arteries continue to deliver blood into the muscles, creating an

increased concentration of intra-muscular blood plasma. This causes

plasma to seep out of the capillaries and into the interstitial

spaces. The buildup of fluid in the interstitial spaces causes an

extra-cellular pressure gradient, which causes a flow of plasma back

into the muscle. The net result: blood pools in your muscles, causing

intramuscular swelling. I don't know if this has ever been studied,

but based on my knowledge of physiology, it seems to make sense.

>

> > involved, that the potential is there. What's more, I have read

that

> > cell swelling can actually be noticed more than 24 hours post

> > exercise (can't remember the study), which by any standard isn't

> > transient.

>

> You're probably referring to papers on eccentric exercise, which

shows

> intracellular swelling due to muscular damage. However,

bodybuilding type

> training may not necessarily be accompanied by large amounts of

cellular

> damage, especially in experienced trainers.

>

You may be right about this. But, even so, I still say that a couple

of hours of cellular swelling given other anabolic factors *might*

contribute to increased protein synthesis.

> > Actually, I've had the opportunity to speak with Dorian at length

and

> > his target for reps is 8 to 10 reps per set, which I would

consider a

> > moderate rep range.

>

> I wasn't really arguing about Dorian's rep range. I was more

referring to

> his low-volume training (he did not do very many sets), and if I

recall

> correctly he did not use short rest periods.

Dorian actually did more sets than people realize. He usually did

four exercises per muscle group. He would do one set to complete

muscular failure (usually wity one or two forced reps with controlled

negatives) for each exercise. But here's the kicker. He would also

do several " warm-up " sets, which most people would count as regular

sets. He simply felt that if the set wasn't to all-out failure,

that it really didn't count as a set. So, in reality, he did about 8

sets or so per muscle group (which still is pretty low by

bodybuilding standards, but certainly enough to generate a good pump

and increase the anabolic factors that we discussed).

Brad Schoenfeld, CSCS

> Krieger

> Graduate student, exercise science

> Washington State University

> " Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every

time we

> fail. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson