RE: Protein Diet Lies or Truth?

October 13, 2000

Good points, Diego! Mental masturbation aside, you

will never obtain a conclusive answer to training or

diet protocols without trying them out. It's an

individual thing.

With some of the so-called " science " put forth as

fact, you have to follow the money. Who profits by

endorsing a particular methodology? Is Atkins in the

diet business or the book-selling business?

Conversely, is the American Medical Association (which

controls much of the material published in the US)

profiting more by prescribing medications or curing

disease? Who is paying for the studies, one way or

the other?

Just something to consider...

Shafer

Converse, Texas, USA

Diego....<gladiadores@...> wrote:

> You have the scientists, the MDs and the booksellers

> all saying different

> things and they are all wrong in my opinion.

>

> Put your money on or at least try for yourself.

> Listen to those who do not

> make a cent. I respond to every post about normal

> " not low carb " (that is a

> medical misnomer), low carb in comparison to Willy

> Wonka's chocolate factory

> or to a tribe in the rainforest.

>

> I would listen to those of us that gain nothing from

> testifying to the

> incredible health that reducing carbs has given us.

> If you reduce one thing

> you must add the other or eat air. I get nothing

> from writing about reducing

> carbs, I dont sign my name on purpose, I dont sell

> anything. It only wastes

> my time to do so but I spent 7 years suffering with

> increasing obesity and

> multiplying problems and hearing authoritative

> statements that did not work

> at all,ever.. I get nothing out of responding to

> these posts only that I

> know 100% how awful it feels to be obese, how

> painful it is for the person

> and their famililies, how expensive it is to pay for

> medicines that dont work

> and how frustrating it is to hear experts say

> nothing that brings any

> improvement. Each group has their own interests at

> heart and are not subjective.

> " The Emperor has no clothes " . OK, I said it.

>

> Scientist are into science; this is a longterm

> thing, by the time they prove

> something we will all be dead (besides they never

> prove anything as a

> discipline they give probabilities under specific

> situations. Medical doctors

> dont mind cutting stomachs, wiring mouths shut,

> giving amphetamines or

> phenfen that causes heart damage but they oppose

> vehemently as a group

> reducing your carbs. Those that sell books and info

> make it seem like they

> invented something and it must be done exactly their

> way.

>

> Don't give up trying and experimenting for yourself;

> forget what everybody,

> all these interest groups are saying. Try it, like

> it keep it , if you don't

> discard bad, stay with good. There is no reason not

> to be able to increase or

> decrease fat, carbs, or protein. Hell, there is

> only 3 variables to choose

> from. See what works. I am telling you the only

> thing that has worked for

> me and all I know and love is reducing carbs.

>

> I don't know why and can't prove it scientifically

> but that is irrelevant: just like i dont know

> electrical engineering but i know that if i turn a

> switch on the wall the light will go on and i listen

> to the radio and watch TV and ride a car and blend

> in a blender, and where clothes, and,etc,etc,etc,

> all of which i cant prove scientifically if why they

> work or if they work. This is not a scientific

> issue it is a practical issue first.

>

> What these experiments (that someone very kindly put

> out for all our benefit)

> are saying that with a 6 week program of 1000 kCAL

> you get the same results

> no matter if you vary fat, protein, or carbs.

> Science does not have to be

> practical, it is a job, they can and should go at a

> snails pace and be

> thorough to benefit mankind in the future, to build

> a knowledge base. But

> guess what scientist who wrote this

> article,..........

>

> The whole point is you can not eat 1000 kcals of

> carbs unless you are in a scientific experiment and

> are institutionalized and this in not tolerable

> long-term. The whole point is you can not just have

> one potato chip, one little bit of Hagan Daz ice

> cream one tiny bit of cake, a little coke, and 1

> chocolate. " you can’t just eat one " . You can’t eat

> just a little cause you crave the protein or fat in

> these meals (nobody will drink two glasses of lard)

> but because you crave the sugar. Of the 3 types of

> food, it is the only one that can spin wildly out of

> control. You don’t have levels of protein vary

> wildly and cause illness but

> sugar in the blood can swing wildly and cause all

> kinds of chaos.

>

> My unscientific but practical thesis is: If cows

> were made of ice cream instead

> of protein and fat, there would be a lot more cattle

> rustlers.

>

> So this science is may be true and it may be of

> great scientific value some day but for the obese

> person dying it is irrelevant so i ask scientist to

> answer this

> one simple question " does eating more carbs make you

> eat more overall. " If

> it does, then scientist, MDs, and everyone should

> know this so we at least

> dont do more harm.

October 14, 2000

Diego,

Losing weight is as simple as burning more calories then you eat. As others

have pointed out, these high protein low carb diets may also be harmful. I am

not against the diet, but feel it may be harmful and there is no scientific

backing the claims of the authors. In addition, there are no studies to show

that it is a safe method of fat loss.

Bob F.

In a message dated 10/13/00 8:18:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

gladiadores@... writes:

<< So this science is may be true and it may be of great scientific value

some day but for the obese person dying it is irrelevant so i ask scientist

to answer this

one simple question " does eating more carbs make you eat more overall. " If

it does, then scientist, MDs, and everyone should know this so we at least

dont do more harm.

Diego

>>

October 15, 2000

From: Bob....? <bobage24@...>

> Losing weight is as simple as burning more calories then you eat.

You cannot " burn " a calorie. The common term of " burning " calories which is

thrown around the diet and fitness industry is a misnomer. A calorie is a

unit of heat and cannot be burned. Calories are expended, not burned.

>As others have pointed out, these high protein low carb diets may also be

>harmful.

The references you have cited really don't support your arguments for three

reasons:

1. The studies you referenced either did not involve ketogenic diets or

were flawed in some way in their methodology.

2. The blurb on epileptic children you mentioned does not apply to

ketogenic diets used for fat loss because the form of ketogenic diet that

epileptic children are put on is different.

3. You have simply cited the opinions of health professionals (i.e., Ellen

) who do not give references to back up their statements.

> backing the claims of the authors. In addition, there are no studies to

show

> that it is a safe method of fat loss.

????????????????????????????????????

All studies that have used ketogenic diets for short-term fat loss have not

shown any problems with safety. If you believe that they are unsafe over

the short-term, then you should provide a physiological reason why they are

unsafe. While I can understand some people's concerns about the possible

*long-term* safety of these diets (lack of intake of phytochemicals,

possible relationship between meat intake and colon cancer), there is *no*

evidence that they are unsafe over the short-term.

Krieger

Graduate student, exercise science

Washington State University

October 16, 2000

There is no evidence to show that the ketogenic diet is safe over the long

run either. The fact is there are really no long term studies which I can

find to show they are safe. Since you are saying you don't know about the

long term effects, I can't disagree with you. I guess we must be arguing

different points here. I cannot find any studies on the exact ketogenic diet

you have in mind. If you have some more references I can check out, send them

my way.

Thanks,

Bob

In a message dated 10/16/00 12:26:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

jkrieger@... writes:

<< All studies that have used ketogenic diets for short-term fat loss have not

shown any problems with safety. If you believe that they are unsafe over

the short-term, then you should provide a physiological reason why they are

unsafe. While I can understand some people's concerns about the possible

*long-term* safety of these diets (lack of intake of phytochemicals,

possible relationship between meat intake and colon cancer), there is *no*

evidence that they are unsafe over the short-term.

Krieger

Graduate student, exercise science

Washington State University

>>

October 16, 2000

From: Bob....? <bobage24@...>

Krieger <jkrieger@...> wrote:

<< You cannot " burn " a calorie. >>

And I suppose you can't move an inch either. Or drive a mile.

> The common term of " burning " calories which is thrown around the

> diet and fitness industry is a misnomer. A calorie is a unit of

> heat and cannot be burned. Calories are expended, not burned.

This level of pedantism is simply disgusting.

Matt Madsen

October 17, 2000

Just an FYI...

As I recall, Duke university is engaged in both a short term and long term