Re: Increasing Throwing Velocity

[Guest guest]

Joe,

If I remember correctly, Bob Donatelli showed that isokinetic ER/IR at 180

degrees/sec for 3-5 sets of 10 three times per week actually increased throwing

velocity. I fully agree with your approach to shoulder girdle. I also spend a

great deal of time on torso and hip rotational strength and power to accelerate

and decelerate the arm during throwing. Rehab seems to be looking a great deal

at the role of the opposite hip in throwers because it provides stability at the

acceleration phase of throwing.

There is a relationship referred to as the " serape effect " . It involves the

obliques, serratus, mid/low trap and rhomboids and their role in helping to

accelerate the arm during throwing. No matter how fast your try to move your

arm, without the acceleration provided by the torso and hips, you could never

approach the 4000+ (I've read as high as 6000) degrees per second that the arm

is moving at the time of release. The hand/arm have been described as the end of

a whip or the fly on the end of a flycasting line. The end of the whip can't

move that fast without the rest of the whip to accelerate it. I hope I did ok

explaining that.

If anyone has or knows where I can get the original reference on the serape

effect, please let me know.

Thanks,

Bob Helfst

Muncie, IN

-----Original Message-----

From: Joe Alden<joealden@...> :

There has been several discussions about the subject of sport-specific

training, and, in particular, whether high velocity actions should be

replicated in the weight room with weight..

Baseball pitching/throwing is considered the fastest motion of the human

body. I have read several research and anectdotal articles which give

various formulae to increase arm/ball speed using weights..

My own perspective and history is that increased arm/ball velocities have

occurred when we implement a diverse, multi-planar approach to shoulder

strength. All components of the shoulder are addressed with emphasis on

front, middle and rear delt exercises..

To round out the program, we have a rotator cuff routine that concentrates

on external rotators and supraspinatus strenghtening. The idea is not only

injury prevention but biomechanical efficiency. Simply put, if the humerus

stays properly seated the scapular/labrum (much like an axle and wheel), and

the muscles are capable of delivering greater force via strenghtening, we

should get a pitcher/thrower to increase velocity..

As good of results as we have had, I am not all so certain there isn't a bit

of luck involved..

Requesting comments from the group..

[Guest guest]

Joe Alden <joealden@...> wrote :

" ...Baseball pitching/throwing is considered the fastest motion of the human

body. I have read several research and anectdotal articles which give

various formulae to increase arm/ball speed using weights... "

***Fast bowling (with a straight arm) as is done in the sport of cricket can

often see the ball travel at speeds greater than 90mph. I think Jeff (a

former Australian fast bowler) holds the record of the fastest recorded

'delivery' which was in excess of 100mph. How fast is the typical 'fast-ball' in

baseball? Is it greater than 110mph? Just curious.

Cheers,

_______________________

Mavromatis

Department of Economics

Monash University

AUSTRALIA

_______________________

Lady Astor: " Sir, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your coffee. "

Sir Winston: " Madam, if I were your husband I would drink it. "

" The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the

inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. "

Winston Churchill.

[Guest guest]

Bob,

Is that 6000 degrees or 600 degrees per second? I compare this to the

golf swing.

160 degrees in 1 second / 100+ mph. with 60 lb.ft torque. Please correct

me if I am wrong. Also would someone please comment on parametric

relationships and explosive strength deficit as it would relate to increasing

angular velocities.

Parks,BSc.DC

Bob Helfst wrote:

Joe,

> If I remember correctly, Bob Donatelli showed that isokinetic ER/IR at

> 180 degrees/sec for 3-5 sets of 10 three times per week actually

> increased throwing velocity. I fully agree with your approach to

> shoulder girdle. I also spend a great deal of time on torso and hip

> rotational strength and power to accelerate and decelerate the arm

> during throwing. Rehab seems to be looking a great deal at the role

> of the opposite hip in throwers because it provides stability at the

> acceleration phase of throwing.

>

> There is a relationship referred to as the " serape effect " . It

> involves the obliques, serratus, mid/low trap and rhomboids and their

> role in helping to accelerate the arm during throwing. No matter how

> fast your try to move your arm, without the acceleration provided by

> the torso and hips, you could never approach the 4000+ (I've read as

> high as 6000) degrees per second that the arm is moving at the time of

> release. The hand/arm have been described as the end of a whip or the

> fly on the end of a flycasting line. The end of the whip can't move

> that fast without the rest of the whip to accelerate it. I hope I did

> ok explaining that.

>

> If anyone has or knows where I can get the original reference on the

> serape effect, please let me know.

>

> Thanks,

> Bob Helfst

> Muncie, IN

>

----------------

From: Joe Alden<joealden@...> :

> There has been several discussions about the subject of sport-specific

> training, and, in particular, whether high velocity actions should be

> replicated in the weight room with weight..

>

> Baseball pitching/throwing is considered the fastest motion of the

> human body. I have read several research and anectdotal articles which give

> various formulae to increase arm/ball speed using weights..

>

> My own perspective and history is that increased arm/ball velocities

> have occurred when we implement a diverse, multi-planar approach to

> shoulder strength. All components of the shoulder are addressed with emphasis

> on front, middle and rear delt exercises..

>

> To round out the program, we have a rotator cuff routine that

> concentrates on external rotators and supraspinatus strenghtening. The idea

is > not only injury prevention but biomechanical efficiency. Simply put, if

the

> humerus stays properly seated the scapular/labrum (much like an axle and

> wheel), and the muscles are capable of delivering greater force via

> strenghtening, we should get a pitcher/thrower to increase velocity..

>

> As good of results as we have had, I am not all so certain there isn't

> a bit of luck involved..

>

> Requesting comments from the group..

[Guest guest]

From: Mavromatis <.Mavromatis@...>

>How fast is the typical 'fast-ball' in baseball? Is it greater than

> >110mph? Just curious.

Rarely, if ever. 100 mph is thrown by just a handful of professionals and I

would hesistate to say that the radar guns used to " clock " these speeds are

consistent and accurate. Which reminds me of the story of my 32 mph Lat

Pull. But you'll have to beg me to hear it .

Joe Alden

[Guest guest]

Dr. Parks,

Thanks for making me go back and check some references. I do need to clarify my

statement. Reference " Functional Rehabilitation of Sports and Musculoskeletal

Injuries " , by the Rehab Institute of Chicago.

Rotational velocity of the shoulder in baseball throw 7,000 deg/sec

Angular velocity of the shoulder 1,150 degrees/sec

Also of interest are the acceleration forces experienced at the shoulder:

internal rotation 60 nm

horizontal adduction 70 nm

anterior shear 400 nm

I apologize, but I don't have the original references on hand right now.

Bob Helfst

Muncie, IN

-----Original Message-----

From: Parks, DC [sMTP:jrp@...]

Bob,

Is that 6000 degrees or 600 degrees per second? I compare this to the

golf swing..

160 degrees in 1 second / 100+ mph. with 60 lb.ft torque. Please correct

me if I am wrong. Also would someone please comment on parametric

relationships and explosive strength deficit as it would relate to increasing

angular velocities..

Parks,BSc.DC

[Guest guest]

Ok Joe, consider yourself begged. That's a whale of a lat pull.

Bob Helfst

Muncie, IN

-----Original Message-----

From: Joe Alden [sMTP:joealden@...]

From: Mavromatis <.Mavromatis@...>

>How fast is the typical 'fast-ball' in baseball? Is it greater than

> >110mph? Just curious..

Rarely, if ever. 100 mph is thrown by just a handful of professionals and I

would hesistate to say that the radar guns used to " clock " these speeds are

consistent and accurate. Which reminds me of the story of my 32 mph Lat

Pull. But you'll have to beg me to hear it ..

Joe Alden

[Guest guest]

So, I am losing my training space to the City Police and the Captain comes

in with his $3,000 Stalker II super-duper, catch-all radar gun. He is using

it to measure the " true " dimensions for space planning purposes. After

several attempts to measure LxW (Length x Width), he comes to me with several

different dimensions. " What are the real dimensions? " , he says. I give them to

him and he laughs.

Captain says, " Watch this!' He aims the gun at my Lat Pull and it reads 32,

28, 34, etc. mph. " Always contest radar tickets " he says, leaving with

multiple chuckles.

Joe

>From: Bob Helfst <bob@...>

>Ok Joe, consider yourself begged. That's a whale of a lat pull.

>-----Original Message-----

>

>From: Joe Alden [sMTP:joealden@...]

100 mph is thrown by just a handful of professionals and I

>would hesistate to say that the radar guns used to " clock " these speeds are

>consistent and accurate. Which reminds me of the story of my 32 mph Lat

>Pull. But you'll have to beg me to hear it

[Guest guest]

Logan and Mckinney coined the term the " Serape Effect " . I believe their book

was

titled Anatomic Kinesiolgy 1970-80

Dr. Yessis

President Sports Training, Inc.

www.dryessis.com

760-480-0558

----- Original Message -----

From: " Bob Helfst " <bob@...>

> Joe,

>

> If I remember correctly, Bob Donatelli showed that isokinetic ER/IR at 180

degrees/sec for 3-5 sets of 10 three times per week actually increased

throwing velocity. I fully agree with your approach to shoulder girdle. I

also spend a great deal of time on torso and hip rotational strength and

power to accelerate and decelerate the arm during throwing. Rehab seems to

be looking a great deal at the role of the opposite hip in throwers because

it provides stability at the acceleration phase of throwing.

>

> There is a relationship referred to as the " serape effect " . It involves

the obliques, serratus, mid/low trap and rhomboids and their role in helping

to accelerate the arm during throwing. No matter how fast your try to move

your arm, without the acceleration provided by the torso and hips, you could

never approach the 4000+ (I've read as high as 6000) degrees per second that

the arm is moving at the time of release. The hand/arm have been described

as the end of a whip or the fly on the end of a flycasting line. The end of

the whip can't move that fast without the rest of the whip to accelerate it.

I hope I did ok explaining that.

>

> If anyone has or knows where I can get the original reference on the

serape effect, please let me know.

>

> Thanks,

> Bob Helfst

> Muncie, IN

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

> From: Joe Alden<joealden@...> :

>

> There has been several discussions about the subject of sport-specific

> training, and, in particular, whether high velocity actions should be

> replicated in the weight room with weight..

>

> Baseball pitching/throwing is considered the fastest motion of the human

> body. I have read several research and anectdotal articles which give

> various formulae to increase arm/ball speed using weights..

>

> My own perspective and history is that increased arm/ball velocities have

> occurred when we implement a diverse, multi-planar approach to shoulder

> strength. All components of the shoulder are addressed with emphasis on

> front, middle and rear delt exercises..

>

> To round out the program, we have a rotator cuff routine that concentrates

> on external rotators and supraspinatus strenghtening. The idea is not

only

> injury prevention but biomechanical efficiency. Simply put, if the

humerus

> stays properly seated the scapular/labrum (much like an axle and wheel),

and

> the muscles are capable of delivering greater force via strenghtening, we

> should get a pitcher/thrower to increase velocity..

>

> As good of results as we have had, I am not all so certain there isn't a

> bit of luck involved..

>

> Requesting comments from the group..

[Guest guest]

>From: Bob Helfst <bob@...>

>If I remember correctly, Bob Donatelli showed that isokinetic ER/IR at >180

>degrees/sec for 3-5 sets of 10 three times per week actually >increased

>throwing velocity.

Sorry I am so late in rssponding.

Well, guess what. This research formed the beginnings of what we call our

Velocity Development Program. Although I was not personally involved with

the Emory study, and it has a lot to be desired from a credibility

standpoint (for example, some of the pitchers had never pitched before

combined with the use of an untuned radar gun), my conversations with Dr.

Donatelli led us to believe we could positively affect velocity.

>I fully agree with your approach to shoulder girdle. I also spend a >great

>deal of time on torso and hip rotational strength and power to >accelerate

>and decelerate the arm during throwing.

It's always a linked system when throwing, striking and hitting are

concrened.

I am not traveling to any conferences etc this year. October is my start

date with pro baseball players and time is limited.

Joe Alden

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