RE: Cyclomethicone and jojoba

[Guest guest]

At the risk of sounding totally stupid, can anyone tell me if you were to

use Cyclomethicone with a jojoba oil and essential oil blend if the jojoba

would separate???

vr

dw

Hi,

I have just started experimenting with it. I added about 25% cyclomethicone

to 75% jojoba/eo blend. It did not separate at all. The feel of the

combination is much silkier.

Steve Earl

Glen Custom Perfumery

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have just started experimenting with it. I added about 25% cyclomethicone

to 75% jojoba/eo blend. It did not separate at all. The feel of the

combination is much silkier.

Steve Earl

~~~~~~~

Speaking of silkier...real silk, and just a tad of it, with some guar, or a

venasilk (product),this is a nice natural alternative to cyclomethicone!

You have to experiment for the right combo though. You don't want it too

sticky.

Just in case you like experimenting!

Robin K

[Guest guest]

--- " R. Klanott " <rklanott@...> wrote:

> Hi,

> I have just started experimenting with it. I added

> about 25% cyclomethicone

> to 75% jojoba/eo blend. It did not separate at all.

> The feel of the

> combination is much silkier.

>

> Steve Earl

>

> ~~~~~~~

> Speaking of silkier...real silk, and just a tad of

> it, with some guar, or a venasilk (product),this is

> a nice natural alternative to cyclomethicone!

> You have to experiment for the right combo though.

> You don't want it too sticky.

>

> Just in case you like experimenting!

>

> Robin K

>

Hi Robin,

How would you use the perfume with the guar and or

venasilk? They both need to be rehydrated in order to

not feel sticky. Wouldn't you end up with glop?

Yoki

[Guest guest]

I have just started experimenting with it. I added about 25% cyclomethicone

to 75% jojoba/eo blend. It did not separate at all. The feel of the

combination is much silkier.

Steve Earl

Glen Custom Perfumery

********************************

Thanks Steve, I will have to try it.

vr

Darlene

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't you end up with glop?

Yoki

~~~~

No! LOL. Sorry. A Little More explanation. You use it in the base you are

going to use. Jojoba oil. I believe talking jojoba oil was the base? So same

process, just use the natural thickners. And no. You do not end up with glop

unless you put water in it too much and let it sit!

You can hydrate it is water first if you want then add to. I do it. The

amounts varies so you have to experiment on amount. Start small then add.

Add the silk.

Same idea as the cyclomethicone.

Robin K

[Guest guest]

--- " R. Klanott " <rklanott@...> wrote:

> Wouldn't you end up with glop?

>

> Yoki

>

> ~~~~

>

> No! LOL. Sorry. A Little More explanation. You

> use it in the base you are going to use. Jojoba

> oil. I believe talking jojoba oil was the base? So

> same process, just use the natural thickners. And

> no. You do not end up with glop unless you put

> water in it too much and let it sit!

> You can hydrate it is water first if you want then

> add to. I do it. The amounts varies so you have to

> experiment on amount. Start small then add.

> Add the silk.

>

> Same idea as the cyclomethicone.

>

> Robin K

Hi Robin,

I never knew you could use oil to hydrate guar silk or

the vena silk? I will have to try it and see. I know

the guar silk you only need a very little bit, when

used with water. I can imagine then that it would feel

very silky. That would be something to think about

when experimenting with the cyclo. For me, the idea

wouldn't be to use the cyclo for its silky feel but to

carry everything to the skin.

With the silk protein in the jojoba oil and the

fragrances, after the cyclo had evaporated and left

just those two ingredients, I can see where it would

have a very luxurious feel to it.

Yoki

selahs_soaps@...

(tel) 340-277- 4146

[Guest guest]

I never knew you could use oil to hydrate guar silk or

the vena silk?

Yoki

~~~~~~~~~

Yoki!

No! You can't! You are absolutely right.

Water hydrate then whip into oil.

Mix for quite awhile (heating the oil) and eventually it does mix. You do

have to use preservative if you were to sell (because of the water

hydration)...but I wasn't refering to selling.

You have to experiment to get the right combos down (meaning the thickness

of the paste (water hydrated) venasilk or guarsilk, but I have experimented

and thickened the oil using those same products, then added silk.

My point was there are natural products to thicken, other cyclomethicone. I

should have said, " example " and I shouldn't post when in haste.

There are some herbal related sites who sell manufacturing products that

supply " natural " or " Naturally derived " type of thickeners.

anyway... then you put in a tad of silk, just a little and you have the same

effect. You have to make sure you get the oil soluable, or...

Make sure you have something to bind the watered substance with the oil.

Cyclomethicone makes it easier. But it is not the only alternative to the

relatively (or almost, I mean even with scent you mimic or create what you

want right?) same feel.

And, You don't have to stop at just guar or venasilk. Experiement. If you

don't want to use preservatives...look for oil soluble naturally derived

products or natural. Other guar products exist. Natural thickeners are

what you want, then add silk. Silk is like the magic key to feel. I've

even thickened using a wheat or rice starch. Don't use too much when it

comes to starch! The scent will literally stick with you! ROTFL

Also, I am assuming the discussion was trying to make a thick (not GEL) oil

based perfume? Meaning not something you rub all over your body. Just the

heat points? This was my assumption with the for the use of cyclomethicone.

So this is where my thoughts are coming from.

So for individuals who are leary of using cyclomethicone...there are in fact

natural or naturally derived alternatives. I shouldn't rush to post when I

am pinched for time!

I don't make products very often anymore. not enough time to play and I

LIKE to play. The products are for fun and for gifts. I have to redo and

experiment everytime.

Something new and " Naturally derived " always floods the market. A lot of

choice! Just have to use the ole noggin getting to the point that you want.

Robin k

[Guest guest]

At 07:12 PM 2/11/2006, you wrote:

>So for individuals who are leary of using cyclomethicone...there are in fact

>natural or naturally derived alternatives. I shouldn't rush to post when I

>am pinched for time!

Robin, could you expand on this? I'm in the dark on this issue, and trying

to learn from the thread. As far as I can gather, there are two

diametrically-opposed camps, and I can't figure out the baseline.

>

Anya

http://.com

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[Guest guest]

Robin, could you expand on this? I'm in the dark on this issue, and trying

to learn from the thread. As far as I can gather, there are two

diametrically-opposed camps, and I can't figure out the baseline.

Anya

~~~~~~

Yes! Kind of. I am not real experienced because I do honestly just play

until I find something kinda cool and then note it. But a few years ago, I

received a sample of a scent that was in a thick almost gel but not gel, and

you only put it on your pulse points. It isn't an actual " Lotion " or

message oil. It was in a tiny " pump " bottle that could be carried in your

purse. Plastic mind you, but cute all the same. So, I thought, in one of

my more brilliant lapses, wow, wouldn't it be cute to use it as an

aromatherapy type situation for on the go? Or even nice scents?

It was at that time I found out it the thick liquid inside was made with

cyclomethicone in the ingredients. This was from a handmade cosmetics

supply meaning, it can be made by anyone.

Now the do's and don'ts or wills and will nots of cyclomethicone are really

beyond me to personally judge for others. But the texture and consistency

was interesting. The idea was the oil didn't run and remain " oily " it

" rubbed " in faster. Which it really doesn't. It just appeared to.

It is my understanding from the company, where I recieved this sample,

cyclomethicone is a polymer product. The safety issues with the

product...well, that is debatable. The company will say safe, and the

opposing team will counter. Everything and anything can be an issue. For

every research article saying it is safe, there is one to match saying it is

not. Then you have the debatable, how much is used for how long so on so

forth. Then the Natural? The " naturalness " of just about all of the new

products and supplies can be challenged I feel. But that is my personal

opinion. Whatever.

So I set off to see if it could be replicated in some way with all

natural or naturally derived (those that I personally could live with and

still look at myself in the mirror) products. Rather than perpetually

debate cycolmethicone, what if something can be created with what " I "

believe is a " healthier/safer " product. This was about three years back

maybe two, it doesn't matter.

In fact, after many messes...I found the aesthetics of cyclomethicone could

be replicated with natural products. So I noted it and thought way cool.

What this did, it caused the oils to have a bit of a " grip " and have the

feeling of sinking into the skin faster and not remaining slippery and

" oily " on the skin if you are in a hurry and on the go.

The cyclomethicone gave (In my humble experience) the feeling of soft, but

a definate plastic over the skin feeling. My pulse point felt like I had a

layer of something on it. That I cannot tolerate. I feel the heat and

energy coming from the pulse point is important to the actual scent and

psyche of the whole process. Having a " plastic " feeling layer over my pulse

point weirds me out. It " holds " in what needs to come out. But the

aesthetics of the product and the idea are cool I have to admit.

As a consumer, I thought it was the neatest thing since green tea. Too

bad it felt plasiticy. I would want it as natural as possible since you are

making the scent natural. My personal opinion. By putting silk in the

equation, it gave a real nice " silky " feel. It reminded me of " liquid "

powder that I've made also. Another cool experiement from someone elses

idea.

And there you have it. Cyclomethicone is a product of polymer origin (or so

believed). It is another " cosmetics " products creation. Big market now

days as we all know!

With this cyclomethicone you can create a scented product that is applied to

pulse points. It is a slippery substance that " soaks " in quick. The action

of using the product is kinda soothing while you do it. Emotionally that

is. It smells wonderful at the same time! It is just a different

application I feel worth checking out. I gave my experiement to friends and

they loved it. Wanted more! Because it was as soothing, relaxing, or even

energizing depending on the scent to " rub " or lightly message the pulse

points or elsewhere as it was to smell the scent! But, I played around and

did not use the cyclomethicone. The idea is what was cool.

Does this explain a little better about that part of it?

Robin K

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

You know, at first I was thinking you had missed my

whole point of why I wanted to experiment with the

cyclo. But after reading your explanation along with

your notes and your takes, I am glad I read all the

way to the end. Your notes, as well as the ones Steve

has already posted, really has helped me greatly. I

know exactly what you are talking about when you say

" plasticy " feel. I have a lotion I bought that does

that and was trying to figure out why it left my skin

like that.

I know cyclo is used to help transfer certain

ingredients and is supposed to help with its

absorption as well, but I did wonder how it would feel

on the skin since it was a polymer of silicone. (hope

that was correct) I am glad I read your notes. I did

not even know that you could do " gel " scents for the

skin! It does sound cool. Now another thing for me to

try out and see.

Thanks again, to both you and Steve for your notes and

thoughts on cylco.

Yoki

selahs_soaps@...

(tel) 340-277- 4146

[Guest guest]

It is my understanding from the company, where I recieved this sample,

cyclomethicone is a polymer product. The safety issues with the

product...well, that is debatable.

RobinK

~~~~~~~~~~

Well, I went and checked with someone I trust, and they told me that it is

in fact some type of silica. LOL. Long explanation that I really care not

about.

And this is exactly why I just stick to as plain as I can. It appears that

some things are made in the cosmetic world and then they are manipulated and

stretched so that they appear to be what they probably aren't!

Life is far too complicated it seems.

RobinK

[Guest guest]

You know, at first I was thinking you had missed my

whole point of why I wanted to experiment with the

cyclo.

(snip)

~~~~~~~

My communications skills lack at times. In fact many times! Yes, I

understood your fascination.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I, but I did wonder how it would feel

on the skin since it was a polymer of silicone. (hope

that was correct)

Yoki

~~~~~~~~~~~

You know, ROTFL, not a clue if that is correct. This is why I take it and

try to recreate the " idea " with substances I am sure of. As long as you

have time to play, why not. Yes, you can also make gels! The sky is the

limit. What limits a person is when they are told they CANNOT do something

without ever having the chance to experience why.

RobinK