Re: Poudre a la Marechale

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >Can anyone here help me ID the ingredient coustadon? Never heard

of it,

> >don't know of a botanical name like it. TIA. The formula was in

Poucher.

>

>

> Someone on another group was kind enough to do some googling and

caught a > reference to the Poudre a la Marechale in the Kathy Kelville

Aromatherapy > book. It looks like the poudre is mentioned on p. 118 according

to the > following link. I'm hoping somebody has a copy of the book and can see

if > the coustadon is identified by a more modern term. All of the other >

ingredients are pretty straightforward.

>

> http://tinyurl.com/9shcr

I've never heard of coustadon either, and did a little research into

it. The only thing I came up with is that Coustadon is a French

surname. The word looks French to me, but can't find it in any of

my French dictionaries.

Regarding Poudre a la Marechale, it is a classic in the repertory of

perfumers. I have many old recipes for it. The ingredients

include: ambrette, clove, calamus, orris, orange flowers, lemon

peel, dill seed, sandalwood, cassia, rose leaves, oil of bitter

almond.

[Guest guest]

I have her Aromatherapy for Dummies and checked in there but didn't see it

either.

Steve Brown

(snipped to correct topposting, Steve ;-)

[Guest guest]

At 09:06 AM 12/18/2005, you wrote:

>Regarding Poudre a la Marechale, it is a classic in the repertory of

>perfumers. I have many old recipes for it. The ingredients

>include: ambrette, clove, calamus, orris, orange flowers, lemon

>peel, dill seed, sandalwood, cassia, rose leaves, oil of bitter

>almond.

Hi :

Are all the old recipes " the same " , or do some of the ingredients vary?

Here are the ingredients according to Poucher, and perhaps we can figure

out what is the odd man out (the coustadon.)

ambrette, clove wood, coustadon, calamus, florentine iris, cloves, dill

seeds, dried lemon peel, dried orange flowers, ambergris, in decreasing

order of weight, so the coustadon is the thired one down. I now see, after

typing it out, your formula varies, quite a bit!

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

" The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. "

[Guest guest]

>

> >Regarding Poudre a la Marechale, it is a classic in the repertory

of

> >perfumers. I have many old recipes for it. The ingredients

> >include: ambrette, clove, calamus, orris, orange flowers, lemon

> >peel, dill seed, sandalwood, cassia, rose leaves, oil of bitter

> >almond.

>

> Hi :

> Are all the old recipes " the same " , or do some of the ingredients

vary?

> Here are the ingredients according to Poucher, and perhaps we can

figure

> out what is the odd man out (the coustadon.)

>

> ambrette, clove wood, coustadon, calamus, florentine iris, cloves,

dill

> seeds, dried lemon peel, dried orange flowers, ambergris, in

decreasing

> order of weight, so the coustadon is the thired one down. I now

see, after

> typing it out, your formula varies, quite a bit!

>

>

> Anya

> http://.com

> The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural

Perfume

> /

> Join to study natural perfumery

> " The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. "

>

Anya,

I have done a little research into " Marechale " and this is what I

have come up with so far. After the Holidays, I'll have more time

for research. Poudre a la Marechale or Sachet a la Marechale was an

extremely popular scent in the 18th century based on the main scents

of orris root and clove bud with various added blenders and

fixatives. Who and where it was first created still eludes me. It

was used by these 18th century folks to powder and scent their

wigs. There are three reasons for its popularity: Its scent, of

course; Its sophistication as a compound scent, as opposed to the

more common, single-scent perfumes of the day; Its ability for the

perfume to persist due to its high ratio of fixatives. By the 18th

century, any perfume of value was required to be longer-lasting.

Here are some old recipes that I have found so far.

In the book, " Sachets and Dry Perfumes " by Karpilow:

" Original " Sachet Marechale

4 oz ambrette seed

4 oz clove bud

2 oz calamus root

2 oz orris root

1 oz orange flowers

1 oz lemon peel

1 oz dill seed

" Modern " Sachet Marechale

4 oz sandalwood

4 oz orris root

2 oz clove bud

2 oz cassia bark

2 oz rose petals

4-6 drops oil of bitter almond

In the book, " The Art of Perfumery " by G. W. Septimus Piesse:

Sachet a la Marechale

1/2 lb sandalwood powder

1/2 lb orris root powder

1/4 lb rose petal powder

1/4 lb ground clove buds

1/4 lb ground cassia bark

1/2 drachm grain musk

Bouquet du Marechale ( a liquid perfume)

1 pint otto of rose

1 pint orange flower absolute

1/2 pint vetiver oil

1/2 pint vanilla oil

1/2 pint orris oil

1/2 pint tonka bean oil

1/2 pint neroli

1/4 pint tincture of musk

1/4 pint tincture of ambergris

1/2 drachm clove bud oil

1/2 drachm sandalwood oil

In the book, " Potpourri and Other Fragrant Delights " by

Heriteau:

Potpourri Marechale

2 cups chamomile flowers

4 oz ambrette seed

1/2 cup calamus root

2/3 cup orris root powder

2 oz cassia buds

1 cup dried orange blossoms or rose petals

1/2 cup ground clove

As you can see, there's nothing that looks like COUSTADON! This is

becoming a real mystery and challenge, and its all your fault, Anya.

LOL.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Anya,

Only listed in Kathi/Mindy's book as an ingredient; no further explanation.

Sorry.

Be well,

Marcia Elston, Samara Botane, http://www.wingedseed.com/katrina.htm

" First of all, cultivate a contented spirit; a garden is a good place to

begin. "

[Guest guest]

Poudre, of course, is powder. This leads me to believe that this formula in

the original 1700 version was a toilet powder, which was a dry cosmetic

applied with a hare's foot (in lieu of a powder puff). :-) Varying

ingredients added to starch and talcum powders were added for both color and

scent. My oldest perfumery book, " Perfumes and Cosmetics: Their Preparation

and Manufacture by Askinson, Dr.Chem. Copyright 1922, lists

several toilet powder recipes, including Poudre de Pistaches (made with

Pistachio meal), Poudre a la Rose, a la violette, de Riz, but alas, no a la

Marechale. A search for Coustadon in the index comes up nil, as well.

I'm off to make cookies to hang on our tree, but I'll search more later if

we haven't come up with the answer. One " wild guess " I was led to was

gingerroot . . . Costus? Simply the word, Coustadon led me there and it may

be a dead end, however, it is a logical ingredient for toilet powders back

then.

Be well,

Marcia Elston, Samara Botane, http://www.wingedseed.com/katrina.htm

" First of all, cultivate a contented spirit; a garden is a good place to

begin. "

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >Can anyone here help me ID the ingredient coustadon? Never heard

of it,

> >don't know of a botanical name like it. TIA. The formula was in

Poucher.

>

>

Is coustadon vetiver? While reading Piesse online

www.gutenberg.org/files/16378/16378.txt under the Vitivert

description, Piesse includes this paragraph: " MARECHALE and BOUQUET

DU ROI, perfumes which have also " had their day, " owe much of their

peculiarity to the vitivert contained in them. " Also, at the

beginning of the Vitivert description, he gives the alternate common

name " kus-kus " , which I believe is the Indian word for vetiver. If

one were to take the first part of the Indian word, it is " kus "

which looks and sounds like " cous " in coustadon (where the " tadon "

part comes from, ???). Piesse's book also contains two recipes for

Marechale: Bouquet du Marechale, which contains vetiver; and

Sachet a la Marechale, which curiously contains no vetiver (thereby

contradicting his own previous statement). In Anya's recipe from

Dejeans (1777),which to me looks like a very old recipe, there is no

vetiver. I think it is quite possible that Dejean's coustadon is

vetiver. Anya, does Dejean also include a recipe for Bouquet du

Roi? It would be so nice if he gave coustadon as an ingredient in

that one, too, but it sounds too easy. LOL. Also, I found this in

Rimmel's " Book of Perfumes " , pages 211-212: " ... " Poudre a la

Marechale, " which still holds its place in the modern perfumer's

calalogue, was so named because it was at first composed by Madame

la Marechale d'Aumont. " Wouldn't it be wonderful to have her

original recipe!

Eagerly awaiting Anya's (and anyone else's) response to this theory!

Mark

[Guest guest]

>

> at the

> beginning of the Vitivert description, he gives the alternate common

> name " kus-kus " , which I believe is the Indian word for vetiver. If

> one were to take the first part of the Indian word, it is " kus "

> which looks and sounds like " cous " in coustadon (where the " tadon "

> part comes from, ???). >

>

>

>Also, an alternative spelling of kus -kus is cous-cous, (not to be

confused with the delicious North African dish of the same name).

Mark

[Guest guest]

At 07:51 AM 1/3/2006, you wrote:

>Is coustadon vetiver? While reading Piesse online

>www.gutenberg.org/files/16378/16378.txt under the Vitivert

>description, Piesse includes this paragraph: " MARECHALE and BOUQUET

>DU ROI, perfumes which have also " had their day, " owe much of their

>peculiarity to the vitivert contained in them. "

First of all, , congratulations for finding an easy-to-reference,

easy-to-use online version of Piesse's book! I have instructions in the

Files section on how to download the uMich.edu version, which is a PITA.

I'm going to just save the link you gave via gutenberg.org as a text file.

Second, great detective work. The vetiver (vitivert) link seems very valid.

>Also, at the

>beginning of the Vitivert description, he gives the alternate common

>name " kus-kus " , which I believe is the Indian word for vetiver. If

>one were to take the first part of the Indian word, it is " kus "

>which looks and sounds like " cous " in coustadon (where the " tadon "

>part comes from, ???).

Tadon? Ta. Don? break them down. Do then signify anything in French?

>Piesse's book also contains two recipes for

>Marechale: Bouquet du Marechale, which contains vetiver; and

>Sachet a la Marechale, which curiously contains no vetiver (thereby

>contradicting his own previous statement).

Piesse was allowed to fiddle with his recipes -- he was " Piesse " , lol ;-)

>In Anya's recipe from

>Dejeans (1777),which to me looks like a very old recipe, there is no

>vetiver. I think it is quite possible that Dejean's coustadon is

>vetiver. Anya, does Dejean also include a recipe for Bouquet du

>Roi?

My Dejean recipe was the one in the Poucher book, credited by Poucher. I

don't know Bouquet du Roi.

>It would be so nice if he gave coustadon as an ingredient in

>that one, too, but it sounds too easy. LOL. Also, I found this in

>Rimmel's " Book of Perfumes " , pages 211-212: " ... " Poudre a la

>Marechale, " which still holds its place in the modern perfumer's

>calalogue, was so named because it was at first composed by Madame

>la Marechale d'Aumont. " Wouldn't it be wonderful to have her

>original recipe!

We have to dig deeper! I'd love to recreate this historical recipe, just

for fun. It's just a jumping-off point, since, as noted, there are many

variations on the recipe.

>Eagerly awaiting Anya's (and anyone else's) response to this theory!

Pretty cool, . Too bad we don't have any linguists on the group that

specialize in that century's patter. You're the next best thing, and I feel

we're on the right track.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

[Guest guest]

>

> >Is coustadon vetiver?

> Tadon? Ta. Don? break them down. Do then signify anything in French?

I got you the *ta* in coustadon !

Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha', meaning

'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several plants

have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the ginger

family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Cos\

tus

[Guest guest]

> >

> > >Is coustadon vetiver?

>

> > Tadon? Ta. Don? break them down. Do then signify anything in French?

>

> I got you the *ta* in coustadon !

>

> Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha', meaning

> 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several plants

> have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the ginger

> family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

>

>

http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Cos\

tus

>

P.S. *don* stands for .. done!

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:12:05 -0000, you wrote:

> > Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha', meaning

> > 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several plants

> > have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the ginger

> > family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

> >

> >

>

http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Cos\

tus

Good research. Very logical.

BTW, got my hand on Poucher vol 1 & 2, and could not find the " Poudre " . I guess

it's in vol.... 3, the one I'm missing!

-= ß =-

_______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> >

http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Cos\

tus

>

> Good research. Very logical.

>

> BTW, got my hand on Poucher vol 1 & 2, and could not find the " Poudre " . I

guess

> it's in vol.... 3, the one I'm missing!

BTW, none of my " powder " formulas contain costus..... FWIW.

Maybe the later liquid adaptation?

-= ß =-

_______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 05:43 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote:

> > >

>

http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Cos\

tus

> >

> > Good research. Very logical.

Aha. Let me check it all further. Such great busy bee researchers here!

Muchas gracias.

> >

> > BTW, got my hand on Poucher vol 1 & 2, and could not find the

> " Poudre " . I guess

> > it's in vol.... 3, the one I'm missing!

Hi Chris:

It's in Vol. 2, 1929 edition, p. 64 in the Fixatives chapter. Missing from

the 1959 version of Vol. 2 I have, which has the Piesse chords, etc. I love

the older book, it's much bigger than the 1959 version by many pages. Great

older recipes, etc.

>BTW, none of my " powder " formulas contain costus..... FWIW.

I will check further in my books. (although I'm sure you have many more ;-)

>Maybe the later liquid adaptation?

Poucher notes that this recipe would make a good perfume, hence my search

;-) I love his little rant in the chapter about how women are demanding

perfumes that last a long time. I infer that he feels they are being

unnecessarily demanding, and changing the nature of perfumes by their

desire for an all-day persistence.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:36:41 -0500, you wrote:

> It's in Vol. 2, 1929 edition, p. 64 in the Fixatives chapter. Missing from

> the 1959 version of Vol. 2

Arghhh...... I have the 1959 version. Go figure.

-= ß =-

_______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> It's in Vol. 2, 1929 edition, p. 64 in the Fixatives chapter. Missing from

> the 1959 version of Vol. 2

Arghhh...... I have the 1959 version. Go figure.

-= ß =-

_______________________________________________________

It can also be found in the 1942 edition on page 67, however it still gives no

details on coustadon.

[Guest guest]

>

> > > Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha', meaning

> > > 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several plants

> > > have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the ginger

> > > family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

> > >

> > >

> >

http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Cos\

tus

>

> Good research. Very logical.

>

> BTW, got my hand on Poucher vol 1 & 2, and could not find the

" Poudre " . I guess

> it's in vol.... 3, the one I'm missing!

>

> -= ß =-

> _______________________________________________________

>

To me its easily understandable that coustadon is the English phonetic

way of writing *Kustha d'eau*

and as I said earlier cost, coste and canne d'eau are the French words

for costus, and probably Kustha alone was meaning vetiver.

I*m resting my case, we have to move on to something else.

n

[Guest guest]

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of n Bichar

Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:51 AM

Subject: Re: Poudre a la Marechale

>

> > > Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha',

meaning

> > > 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several

plants

> > > have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the

ginger

> > > family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

Well, my early stretch towards ginger root might not have been so far off

the mark. Thanks for all the research done on this; it's been fascinating.

Be Well,

Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com

" Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from

Nigeria

[Guest guest]

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of n Bichar

Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:51 AM

Subject: Re: Poudre a la Marechale

>

> > > Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha',

meaning

> > > 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several

plants

> > > have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the

ginger

> > > family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

Well, my early stretch towards ginger root might not have been so far off

the mark. Thanks for all the research done on this; it's been fascinating.

Be Well,

Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com

" Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from

Nigeria

[Guest guest]

At 04:12 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote:

> >

> > Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha', meaning

> > 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several plants

> > have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the ginger

> > family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

> >

> >

>http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Co\

stus

> >

>

>P.S. *don* stands for .. done!

Thanks for the great detective work, n, the research seems " don " ! LOL.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Etymology: The word 'costus' derives from Sanskrit 'kustha', meaning

> > > 'standing in the soil', or 'root'. This explains why several plants

> > > have got this name, for example an ornamental plant from the ginger

> > > family, and the name 'khus-khus' for vetiver.

> > >

> > >

http://.com

> The p>

>http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOilsEng/EssentialOils09/EssentialOils09.htm#Co\

stus

> > >

> >

> >P.S. *don* stands for .. done!

>

> Thanks for the great detective work, n, the research seems

" don " ! LOL.

>

>

> Anya

Thanks! I appreciate it.

It allowed me to discover the above mentioned bojensen.net link.

n