Guest guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:08:05 -0000 > From: " esperanzaxim " <esperanzaxim@...> > Subject: Fir needle > > All this talk about firs reminds me of my favorite Fir Needle -bought it from > http://victorie-inc.us > The ABSOLUTELY best fir needle one could imagine - Abies siberica Siberian Fir. > > unfortunately, they no longer carry it - I have Abies siberica > from a few others suppliers and all are lame in comparison~ > > But is siberica fruity? not at all. > want Christmas in a bottle- YES! > Hello all, I am new and have just been lurking a bit because there is so little that I know and I have not had a chance to read up on the archives yet! My name is Laurel and via a line called Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs I have become interested in natural perfumery. I am particularly interested in the discussion of fir and pine needles because I love evergreen scents. The scent esperanzaxim mentioned below is still mentioned on their site... http://victorie-inc.us/essential_oils3.html (Aromatherapy oils, look under D-H, Fir Needle, Siberian; Abies sibirica, steam-distilled) But they say they are discontinuing their regular scents, and I don't understand if this particular one is included under the " regular scents " category or whether the discontinuation has taken place yet or not? Why list the scent if it's not being sold? Can anyone clarify? I'm glad to join this site and have been learning a ton from the digests. Cheers, Laurel W. Vermont __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 At 02:30 PM 12/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > All this talk about firs reminds me of my favorite Fir Needle -bought > it from > > http://victorie-inc.us > > The ABSOLUTELY best fir needle one could imagine - Abies siberica > Siberian Fir. > > > > unfortunately, they no longer carry it - I have Abies siberica > from > a few others suppliers >and all are lame in comparison~ > > > > But is siberica fruity? not at all. > > want Christmas in a bottle- YES! > > > >Hello all, > >I am new and have just been lurking a bit because there is so little that >I know and I have not >had a chance to read up on the archives yet! My name is Laurel and via a >line called Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs I have become interested in natural >perfumery. Welcome to the group, Laurel, and I have a question for you. I have not experienced BPAL, but I have read a lot about it. Some say they use synthetics, others say they blend accords of natural materials with names like " china rain " or some fruit scent, so it is all natural. Many of us are wary of names like rain, or musk, or raspberry, because that often signifies that the blend has FOs in it. BPAL may be all-natural, for all I know, I am wondering about your opinion. >I am particularly interested in the discussion of fir and pine needles >because I love evergreen >scents. The scent esperanzaxim mentioned below is still mentioned on their >site... > >http://victorie-inc.us/essential_oils3.html > >(Aromatherapy oils, look under D-H, Fir Needle, Siberian; Abies sibirica, >steam-distilled) But >they say they are discontinuing their regular scents, and I don't >understand if this particular >one is included under the " regular scents " category or whether the >discontinuation has taken place yet or not? Why list the scent if it's not >being sold? Can anyone clarify?\ Good question. I've never purchased from them, but I'm always intrigued when I visit their site, because they always have odd, exotic absolutes, rare stuff. Tiny amounts at a big price, I might add. >I'm glad to join this site and have been learning a ton from the digests. Glad you're here, and don't forget to peruse the archives when you have a month or two, LOL. It's like a mini course in NP. >Cheers, > >Laurel W. >Vermont Vermont -- brrr. Stay warm and don't let your perfumes freeze! Anya http://.com The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume / Join to study natural perfumery " The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 > >I am particularly interested in the discussion of fir and pine needles > >because I love evergreen > >scents. The scent esperanzaxim mentioned below is still mentioned on their > >site... > > > >http://victorie-inc.us/essential_oils3.html > > > >(Aromatherapy oils, look under D-H, Fir Needle, Siberian; Abies sibirica, > >steam-distilled) But > >they say they are discontinuing their regular scents, and I don't > >understand if this particular > >one is included under the " regular scents " category or whether the > >discontinuation has taken place yet or not? Why list the scent if it's not > >being sold? Can anyone clarify?\ > > Good question. I've never purchased from them, but I'm always intrigued > when I visit their site, because they always have odd, exotic absolutes, > rare stuff. Tiny amounts at a big price, I might add. > Hi Laurel, Anya~ I've used Victorie before. She recently cut out her regualr line of essential oils in favor of focusing on her biblical oils and rare and exotic absolutes. I have the Siberian Fir. It is the most brilliant fir - bright and rich - I agree with esperanzaxim. very sad she's no longer carrying it She also carried a superior Ginger Lily Root. Wish I had more of that one too I also bought her Moroccan Damask Rose Abs. This she still carries, though I believe the price has gone up. It is the most wonderful sample I've encountered of the Moroccan Damask. Pure delight! If you can spare a few $, try the small 2.5ml sample - $32.00 - ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Anya wrote: > At 02:30 PM 12/1/2005, you wrote: > >> >>I am new and have just been lurking a bit because there is so little that >>I know and I have not >>had a chance to read up on the archives yet! My name is Laurel and via a >>line called Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs I have become interested in natural >>perfumery. > > > Welcome to the group, Laurel, and I have a question for you. I have not > experienced BPAL, but I have read a lot about it. Some say they use > synthetics, others say they blend accords of natural materials with names > like " china rain " or some fruit scent, so it is all natural. Many of us are > wary of names like rain, or musk, or raspberry, because that often > signifies that the blend has FOs in it. BPAL may be all-natural, for all I > know, I am wondering about your opinion. Certain people on the forums (who may or may not work with Beth) insist that she uses ONLY natural ingredients. Also, some people have claimed sensitivity to synthetic perfumes, but not BPAL's products. However, as you say, some of her notes are VERY suspect, and the idea that she can make them using natural accords is akin to saying that you can make a prime rib out of vegetables. Additionally, the fact that most of the perfumes cost the same regardless of their ingredients (and given that they're supposedly 85-100% pure fragrance material) raises suspicion; we all know how expensive rose is, for example, and yet she has an all-rose perfume that sells for far less than the cost of actual rose otto or oil! I personally believe that she uses synthetics. The only way to know for sure would be to buy and test some of her perfume; a good candidate would probably be one of the ozone/ocean scents (isn't that usually calone?) although the rose one would work as well. Anyone have a chemical analysis lab? ;p Assuming they are all-natural, I would think that some of them could be dangerous or sensitizing to certain people, especially at full strength. The aforementioned forum posters have assured people that her perfumes are safe, which is quite possibly doing BPAL's customers a disservice. Anya, I'd assumed that this was the sort of discussion you wanted to avoid on this list. -Xplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 At 10:18 AM 12/2/2005, you wrote: > > > > Welcome to the group, Laurel, and I have a question for you. I have not > > experienced BPAL, but I have read a lot about it. Some say they use > > synthetics, others say they blend accords of natural materials with names > > like " china rain " or some fruit scent, so it is all natural. Many of us > are > > wary of names like rain, or musk, or raspberry, because that often > > signifies that the blend has FOs in it. BPAL may be all-natural, for all I > > know, I am wondering about your opinion. >Certain people on the forums (who may or may not work with Beth) insist >that she uses ONLY natural ingredients. Also, some people have claimed >sensitivity to synthetic perfumes, but not BPAL's products. > >However, as you say, some of her notes are VERY suspect, and the idea >that she can make them using natural accords is akin to saying that you >can make a prime rib out of vegetables. Additionally, the fact that most >of the perfumes cost the same regardless of their ingredients (and given >that they're supposedly 85-100% pure fragrance material) raises >suspicion; we all know how expensive rose is, for example, and yet she >has an all-rose perfume that sells for far less than the cost of actual >rose otto or oil! I personally believe that she uses synthetics. Hi Xplo: Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% rose perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose oils/abs, and diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you say, would be undoable, financially. I didn't catch the part where hte 80-100% claim was made -- which may just be I didn't search deep enough. >The only way to know for sure would be to buy and test some of her >perfume; a good candidate would probably be one of the ozone/ocean >scents (isn't that usually calone?) although the rose one would work as >well. What do they smell like? I have an ocean accord made with seaweed and herbal and a touch of floral aromatics. Does bpal smell like the fakey ozone/ocean drugstore stuff? >Anyone have a chemical analysis lab? ;p > >Assuming they are all-natural, I would think that some of them could be >dangerous or sensitizing to certain people, especially at full strength. >The aforementioned forum posters have assured people that her perfumes >are safe, which is quite possibly doing BPAL's customers a disservice. The customers have the duty, as adults, to do their own fact-checking. That's what I would do, and the company should answer questions truthfully and honestly. >Anya, I'd assumed that this was the sort of discussion you wanted to >avoid on this list. No, it's OK, I put your post through myself -- we're here to discuss natural perfumery and question. You are not bashing the bpal perfumer, and it's obvious you have no personal vendetta against her (that's what I don't want here.) If anyone here knows her, it would be good to invite her to answer, but, in the meantime..... I just visited the site. Nowhere is the claim of natural made. In the FAQ she says she uses perfume oils. The perfume oils are, to me, a giveaway. It may be her customers think they're natural, but she doesn't seem to make the claim to me. I, personally, viewing the graphics on the site would shy away from the thought of anything natural there ;-) Anya http://.com The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume / Join to study natural perfumery " The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Anya, Bb wrote: " My best perfumes I added distilled water and got a cloudy mess. " I went through the same unlucky experience..Do you know how to handle the addition of Water to our perfume blends? Any ideas..? --------------------------------- Personals Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Personals for free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Anya, Bb wrote: " My best perfumes I added distilled water and got a cloudy mess. " I went through the same unlucky experience..Do you know how to handle the addition of Water to our perfume blends? Any ideas..? --------------------------------- Personals Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Personals for free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Anya wrote: > At 10:18 AM 12/2/2005, you wrote: > >>>Welcome to the group, Laurel, and I have a question for you. I have not >>>experienced BPAL, but I have read a lot about it. Some say they use >>>synthetics, others say they blend accords of natural materials with names >>>like " china rain " or some fruit scent, so it is all natural. Many of us >> >>are >> >>>wary of names like rain, or musk, or raspberry, because that often >>>signifies that the blend has FOs in it. BPAL may be all-natural, for all I >>>know, I am wondering about your opinion. > > >>Certain people on the forums (who may or may not work with Beth) insist >>that she uses ONLY natural ingredients. Also, some people have claimed >>sensitivity to synthetic perfumes, but not BPAL's products. >> >>However, as you say, some of her notes are VERY suspect, and the idea >>that she can make them using natural accords is akin to saying that you >>can make a prime rib out of vegetables. Additionally, the fact that most >>of the perfumes cost the same regardless of their ingredients (and given >>that they're supposedly 85-100% pure fragrance material) raises >>suspicion; we all know how expensive rose is, for example, and yet she >>has an all-rose perfume that sells for far less than the cost of actual >>rose otto or oil! I personally believe that she uses synthetics. > > > Hi Xplo: > Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% rose > perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose oils/abs, and > diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you say, would be undoable, > financially. I didn't catch the part where hte 80-100% claim was made -- > which may just be I didn't search deep enough. The site specifies a number of rose notes, but the exact ingredients aren't listed. I believe the 85-100% claim is in the FAQ somewhere, and applies to all BPAL products. >>The only way to know for sure would be to buy and test some of her >>perfume; a good candidate would probably be one of the ozone/ocean >>scents (isn't that usually calone?) although the rose one would work as >>well. > > What do they smell like? I have an ocean accord made with seaweed and > herbal and a touch of floral aromatics. Does bpal smell like the fakey > ozone/ocean drugstore stuff? I haven't smelled them, so I can't say. Some of them specifically list ozone as a note, though. >>Assuming they are all-natural, I would think that some of them could be >>dangerous or sensitizing to certain people, especially at full strength. >>The aforementioned forum posters have assured people that her perfumes >>are safe, which is quite possibly doing BPAL's customers a disservice. > > The customers have the duty, as adults, to do their own fact-checking. > That's what I would do, and the company should answer questions truthfully > and honestly. My understanding is that those posters speak for the company. However, as they have not specifically claimed to be official BPAL representatives (afaik), and Beth has said nothing on her or their behalf (again, afaik), it's possible that they're just rabid fans who are misleading others (intentionally or otherwise). > I just visited the site. Nowhere is the claim of natural made. In the FAQ > she says she uses perfume oils. The perfume oils are, to me, a > giveaway. It may be her customers think they're natural, but she doesn't > seem to make the claim to me. IIRC - and my memory is rather fuzzy here - the site claimed that the ingredients were natural at some point in the past. But you're right, at present it makes no such claim that I can find. -Xplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Anya wrote: > At 10:18 AM 12/2/2005, you wrote: > >>>Welcome to the group, Laurel, and I have a question for you. I have not >>>experienced BPAL, but I have read a lot about it. Some say they use >>>synthetics, others say they blend accords of natural materials with names >>>like " china rain " or some fruit scent, so it is all natural. Many of us >> >>are >> >>>wary of names like rain, or musk, or raspberry, because that often >>>signifies that the blend has FOs in it. BPAL may be all-natural, for all I >>>know, I am wondering about your opinion. > > >>Certain people on the forums (who may or may not work with Beth) insist >>that she uses ONLY natural ingredients. Also, some people have claimed >>sensitivity to synthetic perfumes, but not BPAL's products. >> >>However, as you say, some of her notes are VERY suspect, and the idea >>that she can make them using natural accords is akin to saying that you >>can make a prime rib out of vegetables. Additionally, the fact that most >>of the perfumes cost the same regardless of their ingredients (and given >>that they're supposedly 85-100% pure fragrance material) raises >>suspicion; we all know how expensive rose is, for example, and yet she >>has an all-rose perfume that sells for far less than the cost of actual >>rose otto or oil! I personally believe that she uses synthetics. > > > Hi Xplo: > Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% rose > perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose oils/abs, and > diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you say, would be undoable, > financially. I didn't catch the part where hte 80-100% claim was made -- > which may just be I didn't search deep enough. The site specifies a number of rose notes, but the exact ingredients aren't listed. I believe the 85-100% claim is in the FAQ somewhere, and applies to all BPAL products. >>The only way to know for sure would be to buy and test some of her >>perfume; a good candidate would probably be one of the ozone/ocean >>scents (isn't that usually calone?) although the rose one would work as >>well. > > What do they smell like? I have an ocean accord made with seaweed and > herbal and a touch of floral aromatics. Does bpal smell like the fakey > ozone/ocean drugstore stuff? I haven't smelled them, so I can't say. Some of them specifically list ozone as a note, though. >>Assuming they are all-natural, I would think that some of them could be >>dangerous or sensitizing to certain people, especially at full strength. >>The aforementioned forum posters have assured people that her perfumes >>are safe, which is quite possibly doing BPAL's customers a disservice. > > The customers have the duty, as adults, to do their own fact-checking. > That's what I would do, and the company should answer questions truthfully > and honestly. My understanding is that those posters speak for the company. However, as they have not specifically claimed to be official BPAL representatives (afaik), and Beth has said nothing on her or their behalf (again, afaik), it's possible that they're just rabid fans who are misleading others (intentionally or otherwise). > I just visited the site. Nowhere is the claim of natural made. In the FAQ > she says she uses perfume oils. The perfume oils are, to me, a > giveaway. It may be her customers think they're natural, but she doesn't > seem to make the claim to me. IIRC - and my memory is rather fuzzy here - the site claimed that the ingredients were natural at some point in the past. But you're right, at present it makes no such claim that I can find. -Xplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 > Hi Xplo: > Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% >rose perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose >oils/abs, and diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you >say, would be undoable, financially. I didn't catch the part where >hte 80-100% claim was made -- which may just be I didn't search deep >enough. Xplo, I believe you are referring to Rose Red, which was a limited edition in past winters and is again being offered this year. And no, it's absolutely not advertised as 100% rose oil per se; it is only said to be, as all BPAL scents (as per the FAQ), 85-100% " perfume oil " (see below). You can find it here: http://www.blackphoenixalchemylab.com/limited.html I will unabashedly confess that I just recently bought and LOVED this scent. Its distingushing characteristic is that it is extremely fresh, wet, and green-smelling. I often hear things described as " like inside a florist's case " but to me, it truly is. It's clearly not 100% pure rose, though; it smells of tulip and green fresh stems. > >The only way to know for sure would be to buy and test some of her > >perfume; a good candidate would probably be one of the ozone/ocean > >scents (isn't that usually calone?) although the rose one would work as > >well. > > What do they smell like? I have an ocean accord made with seaweed > and herbal and a touch of floral aromatics. Does bpal smell like > the fakey ozone/ocean drugstore stuff? To me, most BPAL scents do not, but I do find most BPAL ozone scents remind me of men's shaving cream and the like. I couldn't tell you if they really smell synthetic, though, because I'm such a novice to perfumery. > > >Assuming they are all-natural, I would think that some of them > >could be dangerous or sensitizing to certain people, especially at > >full strength. The aforementioned forum posters have assured >> people that her perfumes > >are safe, which is quite possibly doing BPAL's customers a > >disservice. > > The customers have the duty, as adults, to do their own fact > checking. That's what I would do, and the company should answer > questions truthfully and honestly. > [respectfully snipped] > I just visited the site. Nowhere is the claim of natural made. In > the FAQ she says she uses perfume oils. The perfume oils are, to > me, a giveaway. It may be her customers think they're natural, but > she doesn't seem to make the claim to me. I, personally, viewing > the graphics on the site would shy away from the thought of > anything natural there ;-) There is an EXTREMELY active forum community for BPAL at www.bpal.org. This particular topic has received attention in several closely-related threads: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=11584 [most directly relevant] http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=18780 [some discussion of a second supplier is interspersed with that about BPAL here; occasionally threads on varying topics are dissected or merged or both, and this leads to some confusing leaps in conversations] http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=2873 As you will see, BPAL has a very enthusiastic--one might say cultish!- -following. Most of the comments in the above threads are pure speculation, and you can see that many of the commenters are confused about the definition of " essential oil " , " perfume oil " , " synthetic " , etc. There are two people who clearly assert, more than once, that the perfumer (Beth; who posts as kebechet) does not use synthetics. They are closely associated with " the Lab " . One, I don't know if she's an employee, the other is an artist who does most of their artwork now but I don't think she actually works at the company. The FAQ did apparently formerly say that the company only used naturally extracted materials, but it doesn't any more (as you saw, Anya), and I have never seen a personal, direct quote from Beth saying that it doesn't. I have never emailed the Lab to ask directly myself--I have only started learning enough about perfumery to get curious recently. I have never seen a clear definition of " perfume oil " , in particular. Is there one? Is it truly possible to combine absolutes, concretes, hydrosols (?? are they used in perfumery?), EOs, etc., in such a way that they are only diluted 0-15% or is carrier oil content somehow subsumed into " perfume oil " ? I say all this as a real fan of BPAL--it's the first perfume I really became interested in, I've bought quite a lot, and I am eagerly awaiting many of my Yule (winter) scents. On the other hand, I do think these issues could be more transparently explained on the company's FAQ and elsewhere, for those who are interested or concerned. In the meantime, if you'd like to try some, Anya, let me know. I may not have any ozone-ish scents because I don't like the way they smell on me, but if there are a couple notes you'd be interested in smelling, I do have a good variety. BPAL, IMHO, has an excellent variety and some very inventive and beautiful scents. Cheers, Laurel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 > Hi Xplo: > Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% >rose perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose >oils/abs, and diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you >say, would be undoable, financially. I didn't catch the part where >hte 80-100% claim was made -- which may just be I didn't search deep >enough. Xplo, I believe you are referring to Rose Red, which was a limited edition in past winters and is again being offered this year. And no, it's absolutely not advertised as 100% rose oil per se; it is only said to be, as all BPAL scents (as per the FAQ), 85-100% " perfume oil " (see below). You can find it here: http://www.blackphoenixalchemylab.com/limited.html I will unabashedly confess that I just recently bought and LOVED this scent. Its distingushing characteristic is that it is extremely fresh, wet, and green-smelling. I often hear things described as " like inside a florist's case " but to me, it truly is. It's clearly not 100% pure rose, though; it smells of tulip and green fresh stems. > >The only way to know for sure would be to buy and test some of her > >perfume; a good candidate would probably be one of the ozone/ocean > >scents (isn't that usually calone?) although the rose one would work as > >well. > > What do they smell like? I have an ocean accord made with seaweed > and herbal and a touch of floral aromatics. Does bpal smell like > the fakey ozone/ocean drugstore stuff? To me, most BPAL scents do not, but I do find most BPAL ozone scents remind me of men's shaving cream and the like. I couldn't tell you if they really smell synthetic, though, because I'm such a novice to perfumery. > > >Assuming they are all-natural, I would think that some of them > >could be dangerous or sensitizing to certain people, especially at > >full strength. The aforementioned forum posters have assured >> people that her perfumes > >are safe, which is quite possibly doing BPAL's customers a > >disservice. > > The customers have the duty, as adults, to do their own fact > checking. That's what I would do, and the company should answer > questions truthfully and honestly. > [respectfully snipped] > I just visited the site. Nowhere is the claim of natural made. In > the FAQ she says she uses perfume oils. The perfume oils are, to > me, a giveaway. It may be her customers think they're natural, but > she doesn't seem to make the claim to me. I, personally, viewing > the graphics on the site would shy away from the thought of > anything natural there ;-) There is an EXTREMELY active forum community for BPAL at www.bpal.org. This particular topic has received attention in several closely-related threads: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=11584 [most directly relevant] http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=18780 [some discussion of a second supplier is interspersed with that about BPAL here; occasionally threads on varying topics are dissected or merged or both, and this leads to some confusing leaps in conversations] http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=2873 As you will see, BPAL has a very enthusiastic--one might say cultish!- -following. Most of the comments in the above threads are pure speculation, and you can see that many of the commenters are confused about the definition of " essential oil " , " perfume oil " , " synthetic " , etc. There are two people who clearly assert, more than once, that the perfumer (Beth; who posts as kebechet) does not use synthetics. They are closely associated with " the Lab " . One, I don't know if she's an employee, the other is an artist who does most of their artwork now but I don't think she actually works at the company. The FAQ did apparently formerly say that the company only used naturally extracted materials, but it doesn't any more (as you saw, Anya), and I have never seen a personal, direct quote from Beth saying that it doesn't. I have never emailed the Lab to ask directly myself--I have only started learning enough about perfumery to get curious recently. I have never seen a clear definition of " perfume oil " , in particular. Is there one? Is it truly possible to combine absolutes, concretes, hydrosols (?? are they used in perfumery?), EOs, etc., in such a way that they are only diluted 0-15% or is carrier oil content somehow subsumed into " perfume oil " ? I say all this as a real fan of BPAL--it's the first perfume I really became interested in, I've bought quite a lot, and I am eagerly awaiting many of my Yule (winter) scents. On the other hand, I do think these issues could be more transparently explained on the company's FAQ and elsewhere, for those who are interested or concerned. In the meantime, if you'd like to try some, Anya, let me know. I may not have any ozone-ish scents because I don't like the way they smell on me, but if there are a couple notes you'd be interested in smelling, I do have a good variety. BPAL, IMHO, has an excellent variety and some very inventive and beautiful scents. Cheers, Laurel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 goffinses wrote: > > >>Hi Xplo: >>Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% >>rose perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose >>oils/abs, and diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you >>say, would be undoable, financially. I didn't catch the part where >>hte 80-100% claim was made -- which may just be I didn't search deep >>enough. > > > Xplo, I believe you are referring to Rose Red, which was a limited > edition in past winters and is again being offered this year. And no, > it's absolutely not advertised as 100% rose oil per se; it is only > said to be, as all BPAL scents (as per the FAQ), 85-100% " perfume > oil " (see below). No.. it was Two, Five, & Seven, from the Mad Tea Party collection. " A huge bouquet of squished rose petals: Bulgarian rose, Somalian rose, Turkish rose, Damascus rose, red and white rose, tea rose, wine rose, shrub roses, rose, rose, rose… …and just an itty bitty bit of green grass. " Even with " an itty bit of green grass " as filler, this would not be financially feasible with real rose oils. > There is an EXTREMELY active forum community for BPAL at > www.bpal.org. This particular topic has received attention in several > closely-related threads: > > http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=11584 [most directly > relevant] > http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=18780 [some discussion of a > second supplier is interspersed with that about BPAL here; > occasionally threads on varying topics are dissected or merged or > both, and this leads to some confusing leaps in conversations] > http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=2873 > > As you will see, BPAL has a very enthusiastic--one might say cultish!- > -following. Most of the comments in the above threads are pure > speculation, and you can see that many of the commenters are confused > about the definition of " essential oil " , " perfume oil " , " synthetic " , > etc. There are two people who clearly assert, more than once, that > the perfumer (Beth; who posts as kebechet) does not use synthetics. > They are closely associated with " the Lab " . One, I don't know if > she's an employee, the other is an artist who does most of their > artwork now but I don't think she actually works at the company. IMO, putting aside the question of unnatural notes, those assertions simply can't stand in the face of the mathematical evidence. Either BPAL is misrepresenting the dilution/composition of their products, or those posters are lying. This is why, rather than trust " the source " , I suggested that someone should analyze BPAL products in a lab, and get the truth straight from the chemistry. -Xplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 goffinses wrote: > > >>Hi Xplo: >>Does she say the perfume is pure 100% rose oil, or just it's a 100% >>rose perfume? To me, the latter would mean she's blended rose >>oils/abs, and diluted them in oil or alcohol. The former, as you >>say, would be undoable, financially. I didn't catch the part where >>hte 80-100% claim was made -- which may just be I didn't search deep >>enough. > > > Xplo, I believe you are referring to Rose Red, which was a limited > edition in past winters and is again being offered this year. And no, > it's absolutely not advertised as 100% rose oil per se; it is only > said to be, as all BPAL scents (as per the FAQ), 85-100% " perfume > oil " (see below). No.. it was Two, Five, & Seven, from the Mad Tea Party collection. " A huge bouquet of squished rose petals: Bulgarian rose, Somalian rose, Turkish rose, Damascus rose, red and white rose, tea rose, wine rose, shrub roses, rose, rose, rose… …and just an itty bitty bit of green grass. " Even with " an itty bit of green grass " as filler, this would not be financially feasible with real rose oils. > There is an EXTREMELY active forum community for BPAL at > www.bpal.org. This particular topic has received attention in several > closely-related threads: > > http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=11584 [most directly > relevant] > http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=18780 [some discussion of a > second supplier is interspersed with that about BPAL here; > occasionally threads on varying topics are dissected or merged or > both, and this leads to some confusing leaps in conversations] > http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=2873 > > As you will see, BPAL has a very enthusiastic--one might say cultish!- > -following. Most of the comments in the above threads are pure > speculation, and you can see that many of the commenters are confused > about the definition of " essential oil " , " perfume oil " , " synthetic " , > etc. There are two people who clearly assert, more than once, that > the perfumer (Beth; who posts as kebechet) does not use synthetics. > They are closely associated with " the Lab " . One, I don't know if > she's an employee, the other is an artist who does most of their > artwork now but I don't think she actually works at the company. IMO, putting aside the question of unnatural notes, those assertions simply can't stand in the face of the mathematical evidence. Either BPAL is misrepresenting the dilution/composition of their products, or those posters are lying. This is why, rather than trust " the source " , I suggested that someone should analyze BPAL products in a lab, and get the truth straight from the chemistry. -Xplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 > > > > Xplo, I believe you are referring to Rose Red, which was a limited > > edition in past winters and is again being offered this year. And no, > > it's absolutely not advertised as 100% rose oil per se; it is only > > said to be, as all BPAL scents (as per the FAQ), 85-100% " perfume > > oil " (see below). > > No.. it was Two, Five, & Seven, from the Mad Tea Party collection. > > " A huge bouquet of squished rose petals: Bulgarian rose, Somalian rose, > Turkish rose, Damascus rose, red and white rose, tea rose, wine rose, > shrub roses, rose, rose, rose… > > …and just an itty bitty bit of green grass. " > > Even with " an itty bit of green grass " as filler, this would not be > financially feasible with real rose oils. > Hmm--well, my point is more that I don't think the BPAL scent description for any scent fully describes, or is meant to describe, the notes that actually compose the scent. For instance, I LOVE Fresh Index Bulgarian Rose and always thought it was a single note, but the note description on the site (http://www.fresh.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? Screen=PROD & Store_Code=F & Product_Code=00000710) shows there are many other elements at play (and I'm sure there are many others not listed). All the roses the 2, 5, and 7 description mentions are probably in there .... along with a whole bunch of other stuff. (I've tried it and I'd say that's the case; I got a lot more than just roses from it.) I think BPAL takes quite a lot of poetic license with its scent descriptions (sometimes quite literally). It is also more mysterious about its scents than many parfumiers in that it does not specifically list out the main top/heart/base notes. I can disagree with the latter, but I wouldn't say that the description is trying to really mislead you into thinking that the scent is actually COMPOSED of lots of roses, as opposed to EVOKING lots of roses. > > This is why, rather than trust " the source " , I suggested that someone > should analyze BPAL products in a lab, and get the truth straight from > the chemistry. > Sooner or later, I would think someone will do so! Myself, I do not have a GC/MS to hand. Cheers, Laurel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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