Re: behavioral therapist rant

[Guest guest]

, I thought I was reading from the Bipolar list when I read your

post. We had such a hard time getting a proper dx of our two bipolar boys.

But that was through county mental health. I finally got their pediatrician

to help while waiting for their appointment with a private psychiatrist who

declared them Early Onset Bipolar right off. The other incompetents ignored

that bipolar runs in the family and that their own mother has it. Like you,

they said that I needed to take more parenting classes. They knew that I

have already taken several behavior classes on my own but they felt I need

more and should be able to take the time for more.

I am sorry to hear about your run around because I know how hard it is.

None of her advice sounds very good at all. I do not know exactly what all

your son's problems are but " The Explosive Child " by Ross W. Greene was

recommended to me and I am about half way through it. You might get some

help from it. Some of the dx's that the author has dealt with are ODD,

ADHD, Tourettes, bipolar nonverbal learning disability, OCD and Asperger's.

My boys fit in there with a few of those dx's. Sometimes when you cannot

get the help personally you can find help from someone who has written about

it. oh, and time out is not one of the suggestions. (-;

Betty, 60 --

grandmother and guardian to

, 10 Bipolar Homeschooled now-1000 mg Depakote, DDVAP, Omega 3's 1000

mg,

Evan, 8 nonverbal autism--2.75 mg. Risperdal, Omega 3's 1000 mg

, 6 Bipolar, PTSD-- 20 mg Adderall, 500 mg Depakote, .1 mg

Clonidine, Omega 3's 1000 mg

and mother to , 31, their mom, rapid cycling bipolar = Topamax 30 mg.

wife to Bob, 71 =on too many meds to mention

[Guest guest]

What exactly made you think if bipolar when reading my post?

Funny you should mention that... AND I forgot to add that to my

report to the counselor today... But my dad supposedly was bipolar,he

died when I was 14 so I didnt know about it... and didnt remember

that.

I should have because that was my mothers weapon of choice when I

was a teenager... saying I probably was too...

hmmmmmmm another whole line of questions...

> , I thought I was reading from the Bipolar list when I

read your

> post. We had such a hard time getting a proper dx of our two

bipolar boys.

> But that was through county mental health. I finally got their

pediatrician

> to help while waiting for their appointment with a private

psychiatrist who

> declared them Early Onset Bipolar right off. The other

incompetents ignored

> that bipolar runs in the family and that their own mother has it.

Like you,

> they said that I needed to take more parenting classes. They knew

that I

> have already taken several behavior classes on my own but they felt

I need

> more and should be able to take the time for more.

>

> I am sorry to hear about your run around because I know how hard it

is.

> None of her advice sounds very good at all. I do not know exactly

what all

> your son's problems are but " The Explosive Child " by Ross W. Greene

was

> recommended to me and I am about half way through it. You might

get some

> help from it. Some of the dx's that the author has dealt with are

ODD,

> ADHD, Tourettes, bipolar nonverbal learning disability, OCD and

Asperger's.

> My boys fit in there with a few of those dx's. Sometimes when you

cannot

> get the help personally you can find help from someone who has

written about

> it. oh, and time out is not one of the suggestions. (-;

>

>

> Betty, 60 --

>

> grandmother and guardian to

> , 10 Bipolar Homeschooled now-1000 mg Depakote, DDVAP, Omega

3's 1000

> mg,

> Evan, 8 nonverbal autism--2.75 mg. Risperdal, Omega 3's 1000 mg

> , 6 Bipolar, PTSD-- 20 mg Adderall, 500 mg Depakote, .1 mg

> Clonidine, Omega 3's 1000 mg

> and mother to , 31, their mom, rapid cycling bipolar =

Topamax 30 mg.

> wife to Bob, 71 =on too many meds to mention

[Guest guest]

I thought of that because that is a major problem with getting the bipolar

kids properly dx'd. The parents need more parenting skills, it is the

parents fault. etc. etc. We do have a few families on the bipolar parents

lists that also have autism in the family. Some with bipolar and autism in

the same child. I do not see any bipolar in Evan--at least not yet and I

pray that never will. If it runs in your family you might want to do a web

search and check out bipolar a little better. Your mom might have seen some

of the same things in you that she saw in your father. After I started

reading up on bipolar, I begin to wonder if I am not bipolar myself. Half

my sisters are and 2 out of 3 of my children. It does run in our family and

maybe in my husband's. Well, good luck, anyway in your hunt for answers.

Betty,

----- Original Message -----

From: " eashtonb " <eashtonb@...>

> What exactly made you think if bipolar when reading my post?

>

> Funny you should mention that... AND I forgot to add that to my

> report to the counselor today... But my dad supposedly was bipolar,he

> died when I was 14 so I didnt know about it... and didnt remember

> that.

> I should have because that was my mothers weapon of choice when I

> was a teenager... saying I probably was too...

> hmmmmmmm another whole line of questions...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh ,

I am sorry it was such an awful appointment for you. I can relate. I have

Kaiser, and they at least were being more proactive...they wanted to

medicate, then figure out what was wrong after we decided which medicine

worked best!!!!!!! Not!!!!!

Anyway, the first psych there told me much of this was my fault. Eventually

we got a referral to a neurologist and Children's' hospital, then he sent us

to a psych there who has given my son a preliminary diagnosis of PDD. Well,

guess what, she keeps offering to help with the behavioral stuff, but she

hasn't, all she said was that we are doing such a good job that we were able

to " mask " the fact that he is in the autism spectrum (he will be 4 next

week). So basically it was your son is in the autism spectrum....bye, have a

nice life.

Her advice was the same, restrain him, or time-outs. We have the same

situation as you, both of those either don't work, or send him into a rage.

Helpful. I wish you the best. I am finally giving in and taking my son back

to see if we can find a mood stabilizer for him, this week he has pushed his

sister down the stairs, and left big bald spots on her head (she is 2). I no

longer feel that I can keep her safe. Good luck. I didn't mean to tell you

my life story, but just wanted you to know that there are others out there

doing the same thing! It took almost a year in a half to get anyone to take

us seriously, then to finally diagnose him.

-Jenn

[Guest guest]

Where did you go for an evaluatio? Has this person ever dealt with autism

before?

n a message dated 7/26/2002 12:48:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

eashtonb@... writes:

> well , we went today for our evaluation hoping for a diagnosis or

> at least a few possibilites, and it was determined NOT to be ODD...

> well we could have told her that... But thats as far as it got... We

> were pretty much told it wasnt him! Its US!!!!!!!!!! we need a

> parenting class since we are so obviously lacking parenting skills

> for this child... We should just overlook his behavior and only

> punish him when he bites someone or hits someone.. and then he should

> be put in time out....

>

> We are at wits end and she tells us time out!!!!!! like we havent

> tried that????????? She gave us no real help with the behavior

> issue... Time out makes it worse... depending on the situation, he

> either enjoys time out... or it makes the situation worse... she told

> us to physically restrain him if he wont sit there... so we have to

> take all his physical abuse while trying to get him to sit there for

> at least 3 minutes... and he has to be quiet for at least some part

> after that and cant be released until he has calmed down...The only

> thing us touching him is going to do is make him more furious and

> more upset...

>

> The only other suggestion she made was to let him do whatever he

> wants for 15 minutes a day... set a timer, dont ask him questions,

> dont tell him no, dont remove him from something...let him do

> whatever he wants.... my husband asks and what if he tries to stick

> his finger in the electrical outlet?? we just sit there?... she just

> giggled and at that exact moment he did sticks my car keys in HER

> elec. outlet!!!!!!!!!!!!! (didnt get hurt thank goodness) so we never

> found out what to do other than her declaring she was going to buy

> outlet covers today...

>

> I was very discouraged... I guess I have to look at it as though we

> are one step closer to finding out the diagnosis, but 1 down how many

> to go???????? and how many $$ later.. to get useless suggestions...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

well, we called for an appt. with her partner, a real psychologist

who has worked for over 20 yrs with only ped. cases... This woman

isnt new, new, but she is young although her credits in her little

brochure state that she specializes in the treatment of childhood

behavior and emotional difficulties, childhood disorders... she was

a middle school counselor and has worked in Nashville as a clinical

supervisor who worked with trouble adolescents on topics such as

neglect, sexual offenders and victims, and delinquents... now that

you bring it up she has no mention of " diagnosis of " .. I dont

know... I will give it one more shot for her to have a chance to get

all the info she needs from the other professionals who have talked

with him, and then we'll see

[Guest guest]

Sorry for all your troubles. A couple of things come to mind.

First off, how much did the therapist interact one on one with your

child? Was she basically just asking you questions or interacting

with him. If she is not interacting with him directly, there is no

way she can make a diagnosis, in my opinion. Second, how long was

the visit?

Having just gone down this road and still traveling on it, I suggest

having your pediatrician make a referral for you to the local

pediatric neurologist in your area because you suspect he has

learning disabilities and possibly behavioral problems. It would be

nice if you could choose a neurologist that is the most popular with

other parents in your area. In your town, you should start up

a " parent's only " discussion group, similar to this one, where

parents of PDD kids can discuss the way to tackle things like getting

services, finding therapists, proper diagnosis, and what's works in

your area. The group should preferrably be restricted to parents and

based on an honor system of maintaining confidentiality.

PDD is an epidemic right now. You need help getting through the

system and utilizing all the options and services available to you.If

you are not getting services from the school district yet, you

probably should be. It starts at age three in most states.

You need a " medical diagnosis " first. After getting the medical

diagnosis, then pursue behavioral therapy. Your school district

should be providing it. If your child is PDD he should be receiving

ABA therapy, right now. I dont't know what works other than ABA but

that is a structured way of teaching and not counseling.

I don't know all the issues concerning your child, but, if you are on

this list, you must feel that your child has PDD.

I think you went to a quack. That is just my personal opinion, but

you need a neurologist who can diagnose all of the various conditions

your son could possibly have.

I went to two different neurologist for my child. The first said to

him, " how are you doing little fellow " and that was the extent of his

evaluation. Everything else involved questions he asked me.

The second neurologist asked me questions, but while he did so, he

spent one full hour on the floor, interacting with my son. He was

able to make a diagnosis based on his one on one interaction with my

boy, who was 2 1/2 at the time. Based on the medication and

behavioral interventions that he prescribed, my son progressed from

being at 6 months old expressive language skill to knowing about 300

to 400 words in a few months which is fantastic because my son is

also hearing impaired and is strugging with his articulation.

To say you need parenting classes and minimizing your concerns, is in

my opinion, ignorant. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Rose

[Guest guest]

Well, glad to see I wasnt over-reacting... I thought the same

things... She only talked with us... she I think twice spoke to our

son...and like you said... " what a cute little boy you are! " " what a

pretty smile you have "

and of course my husband and his attitude didnt help... He is still

in denial. And had the nerve to claim that he was better in alot of

areas than our girls were! He got up and walked out when she started

reporting on the little bubble sheet results... ( fill in answers to

questions and it runs thorugh a computer and gives possibilities I

guess) it was bad, and he got up to leave.. so I informed the

counselor then that he was in denial and not acknowledgeing anything

being wrong with our son and he refuses to talk about it... and she

said she would take that into consideration. But the session was an

hour long, and nothing like I thought it would be... I wanted her to

work with him, not us exclusively...

As for his pediatrician, he is no help either and is more dismissing

of our worries than anyone... BUT my sister in law works for him

sometimes... and she just tells him like it is and explained what was

going on and she said he kind of washed over it with her too, and she

thought it was more of his doubting anything was wrong, rather than

not wanting to talk with her without permission.He did give her the

whole speech he gives me about his second son being slow to talk and

there is nothing wrong with him... " some kids just like to take

everything in get a grasp of the language THEN just start talking one

day " . But he did reassure her and told her not to worry, even if

it was bad, he was caught in time and there was so much to be done to

get him taken care of... so that was reassuring.... We have our 3 yr

old check up Aug 14th... and we are going to lay it all out to him

then and see what he says, and where we can get referred to... ( or

demand to be referred to LOL)

I am interested in this ABA program... you work with it at home? is

it very expen$ive? and Where do you get it?

Our son is having a language explosion right now... and its

amazing... he is like a sponge finally, just absorbing stuff.. we

thought he wouldnt qualify for the school systems services, but he

did.... I guess we didnt realize how far behind he was.... He will

start that after his birthday in the middle of august..

we dont know anything about their evaluation... they were even less

help than this counselor... BUT I totally forgot , she said she knows

the head of that program and would get us some answers....and find

out what he is supposed to get, and what teh results of that eval

was... one of the main reasons I decided to go back to her one more

time...

I was wondering if any of you have tried animal therapy? I know our

son would not even acknowledge our pets existence.. and just now 3

weeks before his 3rd birthday learned the animals names... He did

have an episode of torturing the cat, he liked to sit on the cat, but

I didnt worry too much because this cat wont put up with any crap...

she can take care of herself... now he doesnt do that anymore. But

most specifically horses? I saw an article in the American quarter

horse assoc. free magazine, about an autistic girl who was 20 and

her parents claimed the horses brought her out of her shell and she

now works at a stable!

[Guest guest]

- If it is of any help or assurance to you, in my

daughter's case, the cat that visits us from the other side of our

duplex is a major motivator for my daughter. At 21 months, she

would still not go down the stairs on her own - she would just sit

at the top and cry, until we went up and got her. On Thanksgiving,

November 2000, when she saw the cat at the bottom of the stairs, she

scooted down on her fanny, because she wanted to get to the cat.

Her first two word sentence - at 31 months was " here kitty " . She

now is very echolalic, but her favorite thing is to imitate the

sounds of animals and pretend that she is a cat or a dog. She goes

down on all fours and meows or barks and pants - this is her way of

saying " hey, I need some tactile input, please pat my back or

scratch my head " . While it may seem very unusual to other people,

especially when she is being a dog and licks them, she is a much

calmer, happier child and we encourage her to spend as much time

with animals that we know will tolerate her. She lays on the cat,

but the cat is more than able to get away from her when it has had

enough (I do take a nail clipper an blunt the cat's nails about

every two weeks or so, but the cat doesn't mind). The pug/mix dog a

few doors down, comes and plays with her in our fenced back yard.

The dog will run circles around her and than stop to let her pet

him. This encourages her gross motor skills and motor planning

skills, by making her try and keep up with the dog.

While the cat is very smart and tolerant of her, the dog doesn't

seem to be very bright, but loves attention. Just be very sure that

whatever animals are around your child, that they have the right

disposition. We have been very fortunate with this cat and dog. We

tried one other cat, but that cat would get mad if it wasn't the

kind of attention that it wanted, so it would go and urinate on our

things when the kids upset it.

> I was wondering if any of you have tried animal therapy? I know

our

> son would not even acknowledge our pets existence.. and just now 3

> weeks before his 3rd birthday learned the animals names... He did

> have an episode of torturing the cat, he liked to sit on the cat,

but

> I didnt worry too much because this cat wont put up with any

crap...

> she can take care of herself... now he doesnt do that anymore.

But

> most specifically horses? I saw an article in the American quarter

> horse assoc. free magazine, about an autistic girl who was 20 and

> her parents claimed the horses brought her out of her shell and

she

> now works at a stable!

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for your reply.... our son likes the cat, at times... but

mostly he just acts as if the cat is a piece of furniture... like she

isnt there... The first cat we had was SO tolerant of anything my 6

yr old would carry him by the neck when she was 3 yrs old...and it

took lots of working with, " THIS is how we carry the cat " etc.. to

teach them to be gentle so I didnt worry too much about his being

mean to the cats.He has taken a liking to them recently , but our old

sweet cat got a little intolerant of him in his old age, and he died

a few weeks ago.. This newer cat has never been affectionate with

anyone but me... actually the kids are scared of this cat... But he

did learnt o say her name " Wose " (rose) and he was interested in our

chihuahua but there is no way I would allow him to be near her..

typical chihuahua attitude and for being raised with kids, she hates

them?? he cannot get to her, there is a tall baby gate up, and he

doesnt really have any interest in her anymore.. and agian like she

is a picture on the wall... He has taken to a sweet old dog outside,

and she has one eye and he started wanting to pet her... then he

wanted to poke her in the bad eye.. he still doesnt say her name, but

she is our best bet with a dog for a friend. We have 2 other herding

dogs, and one bites and both of them are too rough... they herd the

kids, and knock them down and roughhouse...one of those 2 might be a

better choice when our son gets bigger... (not the biter) and you

know what... I couldnt give that counselor an example at the time fo

stuff our son had 'forgotten ' or lost during his first couple

years... and he did in fact act like a dog and a cat just as you

said... crawling, licking you and everything... and he knew what

dogs / cats. and other animals " said " ...and now he doesnt know what

animals say... maybe not a significant loss... but little thingslike

that are adding up.. well back to the dogs and cats..

I have been threatening to bring this older one eyed dog to live

indoors for a long time... but she is SO big and stinky... nothing

kills her smell... ( suggestions for that can be sent privately lol

eashtonb@...) her temperment is so good with the kids...but the

others definately not.... I can see how hard it is to find a true

therapy, or assistant animal...