Re: Can't fall asleep at night

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/01 4:30:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

macko617@... writes:

<< Hi,

I am new to this list but know many of you from the Me-List, DTT and

Verbal Behavior list. Our son is 11 yo. Over the lst month or so he

has become unable to calm down enough to fall asleep at night. Often

he is up until 2AM. Often he gets up and looks out his window. The

problem is he keeps hitting it with his hand. We are worried it will

break and hurt him. The other problem with this is that he often

urinates a little when he does this. We put a 'goodnite' on him for

the night but he takes it off. AT the very least we often end up

stripping the bed down to the mattress and laundering it and at the

worst, we have to clean the wall and carpet, etc. Sometimes he is

good and quietly sits in his bed looking at books with a flashlight!

WE used melatonin for about 6 yrs with great success but it is no

longer effective. We have even pushed it up to 15mg/night - the

limit suggested by our ped. Benedryl doesn't work. We cant'

physically exhaust him - he has too much stamina. Here's an

example......We took a trip to a large amusement park recently. We

had a 3 hour drive each way and he didn't even close his eyes once.

We endured 9 hours of walking around the park continuously without

many sit down breaks. We didn't get home until 12:45AM and I thought

he would collapse into bed like the rest of us. But, no, he was up

until 2AM!!!!!

HELP! We are at the end of our rope. I should also say that we

experienced this in the fall 2 yrs ago and it continued until last

fall. He was OK the whole past yr but now the problem is back. The

first time this occurred either myself or my husband stayed with him

until he fell asleep but it was hell, to say the least. We were

always exhausted.

Has anyone else ever experienced this?? What did you do? Can anyone

recommend any meds - our dr claims not to have anything that doesn't

have to be given on a 'daily' basis. Has anyone used adavan for this

problem? What was your experience with it? We see the dr this

Friday and I'd like to just be able to ask him for something

specific. thanks for your time. >>

Hi ,

My recommendations are just shots in the dark (no pun intended). Something

about the window evokes looking at it, or out of it. He might be seeing the

reflection of his room in it, or he might be looking at things outside....or

both. One option is to put something on the window (like a sun shade), which

could be placed on the outside so that he can't peel it off. Banging the

window might have something to do with how it distorts the reflection. It

might have something to do with the sound it makes when it gets slapped. It

could also be something not yet considered. The something that you place on

the window could be something that only goes on a night and is unlikely to be

removed by him.

As far as when he falls asleep, I can only think of making his wake-up time

earlier if he sleeps 6-8 hours from when he falls asleep (i.e., 2 am). A few

nights of less sleep may make it more likely that he falls asleep at a more

desirable hour. Perhaps limiting sleep over a weekend.

[Guest guest]

Valerian root and chamomile are very good for calming. At times, Nick will work himself up into such a frenzy, he could cry non stop for hours. We use an herbal mixture called "Calm Child". There is also a blend that has a bit more Valerian root called "Super Calm Child" or "Uncle Val". Two dropperfulls and within fifteen minutes Nick calms down. There are several different brand names that use the same blend basically and you can find them at most health food stores. As always, check with your pediatrician to make sure its okay.

Margaret

[Guest guest]

,

I haven't tried it and I'm not sure if it has to be taken daily but our ped

discussed clonidine (sp) with us as a last resort. I have heard of other

parents who have used it.

Also, I recommend a book by Dr. V. Mark Durand called " Sleeping Better " re:

sleep in patients with developmentall disabilities. Saw him speak once and

liked him a lot. Maybe you can even contact him for a direct question.

I went six years without sleeping throught the night because of our

daughter. We put her on the gluten free/ casein free diet and she began

sleeping through the night. We really try to stay away from meds if we can

help it but we were close. I would joke either she's going to be put on

meds or I am because I couldn't take it anymore. Now we only have some bad

periods when she's dealing with her allergies which we give her Zyrtec for.

Good luck.

Ann

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:27:32 -0000

> From: macko617@...

> Subject: Can't fall asleep at night

>

> Hi,

> I am new to this list but know many of you from the Me-List, DTT and

> Verbal Behavior list. Our son is 11 yo. Over the lst month or so he

> has become unable to calm down enough to fall asleep at night. Often

> he is up until 2AM. Often he gets up and looks out his window. The

> problem is he keeps hitting it with his hand. We are worried it will

> break and hurt him. The other problem with this is that he often

> urinates a little when he does this. We put a 'goodnite' on him for

> the night but he takes it off. AT the very least we often end up

> stripping the bed down to the mattress and laundering it and at the

> worst, we have to clean the wall and carpet, etc. Sometimes he is

> good and quietly sits in his bed looking at books with a flashlight!

>

> WE used melatonin for about 6 yrs with great success but it is no

> longer effective. We have even pushed it up to 15mg/night - the

> limit suggested by our ped. Benedryl doesn't work. We cant'

> physically exhaust him - he has too much stamina. Here's an

> example......We took a trip to a large amusement park recently. We

> had a 3 hour drive each way and he didn't even close his eyes once.

> We endured 9 hours of walking around the park continuously without

> many sit down breaks. We didn't get home until 12:45AM and I thought

> he would collapse into bed like the rest of us. But, no, he was up

> until 2AM!!!!!

>

> HELP! We are at the end of our rope. I should also say that we

> experienced this in the fall 2 yrs ago and it continued until last

> fall. He was OK the whole past yr but now the problem is back. The

> first time this occurred either myself or my husband stayed with him

> until he fell asleep but it was hell, to say the least. We were

> always exhausted.

>

> Has anyone else ever experienced this?? What did you do? Can anyone

> recommend any meds - our dr claims not to have anything that doesn't

> have to be given on a 'daily' basis. Has anyone used adavan for this

> problem? What was your experience with it? We see the dr this

> Friday and I'd like to just be able to ask him for something

> specific. thanks for your time.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'd like to chime in on this one. Shelby is notorious for not sleeping. Finally, after 4 years, we've had a sleep study done. We should have the results next week.

We've tried many interventions, including those mentioned in Dr. Durand's book. Our problem is Shelby can't get to sleep. She sleeps fine, once we get her there.

We just started trying Zyprexa, 1.25 mg (1/2 of a 2.5 mg pill) and it's working like a charm. If it will last, time will tell.

Benadryl worked very well, but it's effectiveness wore off. Dr. Durand spoke of that in his book.

Missy in Md.

Can't fall asleep at night>> Hi,> I am new to this list but know many of you from the Me-List, DTT and> Verbal Behavior list. Our son is 11 yo. Over the lst month or so he> has become unable to calm down enough to fall asleep at night. Often> he is up until 2AM. Often he gets up and looks out his window. The> problem is he keeps hitting it with his hand. We are worried it will> break and hurt him. The other problem with this is that he often> urinates a little when he does this. We put a 'goodnite' on him for> the night but he takes it off. AT the very least we often end up> stripping the bed down to the mattress and laundering it and at the> worst, we have to clean the wall and carpet, etc. Sometimes he is> good and quietly sits in his bed looking at books with a flashlight!>> WE used melatonin for about 6 yrs with great success but it is no> longer effective. We have even pushed it up to 15mg/night - the> limit suggested by our ped. Benedryl doesn't work. We cant'> physically exhaust him - he has too much stamina. Here's an> example......We took a trip to a large amusement park recently. We> had a 3 hour drive each way and he didn't even close his eyes once.> We endured 9 hours of walking around the park continuously without> many sit down breaks. We didn't get home until 12:45AM and I thought> he would collapse into bed like the rest of us. But, no, he was up> until 2AM!!!!!>> HELP! We are at the end of our rope. I should also say that we> experienced this in the fall 2 yrs ago and it continued until last> fall. He was OK the whole past yr but now the problem is back. The> first time this occurred either myself or my husband stayed with him> until he fell asleep but it was hell, to say the least. We were> always exhausted.>> Has anyone else ever experienced this?? What did you do? Can anyone> recommend any meds - our dr claims not to have anything that doesn't> have to be given on a 'daily' basis. Has anyone used adavan for this> problem? What was your experience with it? We see the dr this> Friday and I'd like to just be able to ask him for something> specific. thanks for your time. >>

[Guest guest]

You could try an Epsom Salt soak before bed (I know he's eleven, but maybe he could look at a book while he soaks in the tub?) I have also had parents put lavender sachets inside the child's pillowcase to help with calming during bedtime. I worked with two families that used Clonidine, and that seemed to help.

Good Luck -

Taralee

Preschool Disabled Teacher

Discrete Trial Therapist

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I'm new to the list and saw your desparate call for help. Try giving him

coffee, caffeinated. Sometimes it works in reverse for kids that are hyper.

Good luck, R

[Guest guest]

I have heard of giving a child coffee. I have a friend whos child was ADD and extremely hyperactive. Giving her coffee around dinner time did work for them.

Margaret

[Guest guest]

I live in Michigan and we have a health food grocery store nearby called the Good Food Company. "Planet Now" is the company that manufactures is. There is another company that makes "Chamomile Calm" which is another kind we used. The name of the manufacturer:

Herbs for Kids Inc.

Bozeman, MT 49715

(406)587-0180

www.herbsforkids.com

[Guest guest]

Can you tell me where you got those items (Calm Child and Super Calm Child)? Sound like it would be something we'd like to try.

Missy in Md.

-----Original Message-----From: ComeHereDarnIt@... [mailto:ComeHereDarnIt@...]Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:28 PMautism Subject: Re: Can't fall asleep at nightValerian root and chamomile are very good for calming. At times, Nick will work himself up into such a frenzy, he could cry non stop for hours. We use an herbal mixture called "Calm Child". There is also a blend that has a bit more Valerian root called "Super Calm Child" or "Uncle Val". Two dropperfulls and within fifteen minutes Nick calms down. There are several different brand names that use the same blend basically and you can find them at most health food stores. As always, check with your pediatrician to make sure its okay. Margaret

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for you thoughts and ideas. We have actually

tried many of them before. We saw the dr on Friday and are going to

try clonidine again. This time we will increase the dose a bit if it

is not effective. We also came up with an idea while talking to

another psyh. We are going to try video modeling to give him the

idea of what is expected. That will take some fancy editing!!

Thanks again and wish us luck!

[Guest guest]

> Hi,

> I am new to this list but know many of you from the Me-List, DTT and

> Verbal Behavior list. Our son is 11 yo. Over the lst month or so

he

> has become unable to calm down enough to fall asleep at night.

Often

> he is up until 2AM.

One more thought for you. My son had major sleep issues until I

seriously reduced the high phenol foods from his diet. I have other

ideas on phenol issues on my site, including epsom salt baths etc, if

you are interested.

http://home.pacbell.net/cscomp/phenol.htm

You can look at my clonidine information in my medication section.

http://home.pacbell.net/cscomp/parentin.htm#medications

I hope that helps. Good luck.

Dana