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Re: (gts) deprenyl

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I have been following the discussion of possible drug-drug interactions of

simultaneous administration of Selegline (Deprenyl) and fluoxetine

(Prozac)with some interest and would like to contribute my $0.02 worth to

this thread.

I added Prozac to my present regimen of polypharmacy about 2 months ago

(doctor's prescription)and as part of that same regimen I use approximately

1.25-2.5 mg Selegline (no prescription) every 1-2 days. (As an aside, I

occassionally at bedtime use L-Dopa/(Carbidopa) (250mg(25mg)-500mg(50mg) for

GH release and more frequently GHB (4g. at bedtime)no prescriptions here

either).

This discussion drove me to consult one of my favourite texts, PRINCIPLES OF

PHARMOCOLOGY,Ed. P.L.Munson, Chapman & Hall, 1995. From Chapt. 18, p.333, I

quote:

" Because Deprenyl is selective for MAO-B, it inhibits the oxidation of

dopamine and phenylethylamine (PEA) but not that of serotonin or

norepinepherine. "

Unless there is some substantial hard evidence to the contrary, I presume

that 'Serotonin Syndrome'is probably not a consideration.

However, what other polypharmacists (and devil-may-care characters such as

myself) might want to consider is the posibility of unusually high levels of

dopamine created by self-administration of similiar regimens to that above.

I would be very interested on other people's views here.

Regards,

A.

Re: deprenyl

Serotonin syndrome is an unpleasant and sometimes dangerous condition that

arises from having too much serotonin in the brain. It can cause dizziness,

panic, and hyperthermia. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter and a hormone.

Drugs like fluoxetine (Prozac) are SSRI's (Selective Serotonin Reuptake

Inhibitors). SSRI's fight depression by preventing the brain cells from

reuptaking serotonin. St 's Wort seems to work by increasing serotonin

and/or inhibiting MAO, though not much is known yet about St 's Wort. I

don't understand the mechanism by which selegiline (Deprenyl) might also

increase serotonin, but in theory the combination of any

serotonin-increasing drug or herb with deprenyl could result in serotonin

syndrome. There could be some risk to taking 5-HTP with deprenyl as well, I

think, because 5-HTP is the direct precursor to serotonin.

I've also seen that one researcher has proposed that deprenyl should be okay

to use with citalopram (Celexa), which is another SSRI. I have no idea why

one SSRI might be okay but another not okay.

Here is a page of links to research abstracts at my website:

http://www.optexinc.com/deprenyl.htm

-gts

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Hi ,

> Unless there is some substantial hard evidence to the contrary, I presume

> that 'Serotonin Syndrome'is probably not a consideration.

I agree that selegiline and fluoxetine (Deprenyl and Prozac) should be safe

in theory but apparently there have been a few problems with the

combination. I have included two research abstracts below. The first one

that states " selegiline (deprenyl) is free of the 'cheese-effect' when

employed in recommended dosages. However potentially life-threatening drug

interactions, with both pethidine (meperidine) and with fluoxetine [Prozac]

and other antidepressant medications, have been described, presumably

occurring via serotonergic mechanisms " . However the second research abstract

states that no significant interations were found in a population of

patients that took both fluoxetine and selegiline.

-gts

---

Title

Antiparkinsonian agents. Drug interactions of clinical significance.

Author

Pfeiffer RF

Address

Division of Neurodegenerative Diseases, University of Tennessee, Memphis,

USA.

Source

Drug Saf, 14(5):343-54 1996 May

Abstract

Within the past 3 decades revolutionary changes have taken place in the

pharmacological management of Parkinson's disease. Used alone, or often in

combination, antiparkinsonian agents can dramatically and meaningfully

ameliorate the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. However, with the

development of effective therapeutic agents has come the potential for drug

interactions; these interactions can produce consequences that range from

the inconsequential to incapacitating and even life-threatening. Drug-drug

interactions are not a major problem with either the anticholinergic

medications or amantadine. However, cumulative anticholinergic toxicity may

occur when multiple drugs with anticholinergic properties are utilised

concomitantly, and amantadine toxicity can be triggered by drugs that impair

its renal clearance. Gastric emptying and levodopa absorption can be

significantly altered by medications and dietary contents. A rather

extensive array of medications can interfere with dopaminergic function and

thus produce clinical parkinsonism or impair the effectiveness of levodopa.

The effectiveness of direct dopamine agonists can also be affected by a

small group of agents. As a selective monoamine oxidase type B (MAO-B)

inhibitor, selegiline (deprenyl) is free of the 'cheese-effect' when

employed in recommended dosages. However, potentially life-threatening drug

interactions, with both pethidine (meperidine) and with fluoxetine and other

antidepressant medications, have been described, presumably occurring via

serotonergic mechanisms. Awareness of the potential for drug interactions

with antiparkinsonian agents, and prompt recognition of them when they do

occur, is vital for the optimum clinical management of Parkinson's disease.

Language

Eng

Unique Identifier

96393965

Title

Fluoxetine and selegiline--lack of significant interaction.

Author

Waters CH

Address

Department of Neurology, University of Southern California, Los Angeles

90033.

Source

Can J Neurol Sci, 21(3):259-61 1994 Aug

Abstract

The use of the combination of fluoxetine, an anti-depressant serotonin

uptake inhibitor, and selegiline, a monoamine oxidase -B inhibitor, was

reviewed in a large population of patients with Parkinson's disease. All

records were reviewed from a Parkinson's disease clinic to determine how

many patients were treated simultaneously with selegiline and fluoxetine.

Patient characteristics, duration and dose of treatment, side effects and

reasons for discontinuation were noted. Twenty-three patients received both

medications at the same time. No additional side effects were noted with the

combination therapy that had not already been reported with each medication

alone. No serious side effects were found. In this clinic population,

fluoxetine and selegiline were used in combination without major side

effects, but further observation is warranted.

Language

Eng

Unique Identifier

95094107

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Hello Gordon:

Thank you for these two article summaries. Hmmm, sounds a bit

worrisome...however, from the first abstract we can't tell what the dosage

levels were in the 'described' cases...but I suspect that if the groups

under consideration were only taking standard therapeutic doses (ie 20-30mg

Prozac and 10mg. or less of Deprenyl) there may be something to worry about.

But, from this particular article abstract...I wouldn't 'presume' so. As a

matter of fact, whether or not the cheese-effect is exhibited with Deprenyl

is directly relational to dosage. Above 10mg, you may actually get the

cheese-effect...above 20mg you certainly will.

Best,

A.

Re: (gts) deprenyl

Hi ,

> Unless there is some substantial hard evidence to the contrary, I presume

> that 'Serotonin Syndrome'is probably not a consideration.

I agree that selegiline and fluoxetine (Deprenyl and Prozac) should be safe

in theory but apparently there have been a few problems with the

combination. I have included two research abstracts below. The first one

that states " selegiline (deprenyl) is free of the 'cheese-effect' when

employed in recommended dosages. However potentially life-threatening drug

interactions, with both pethidine (meperidine) and with fluoxetine [Prozac]

and other antidepressant medications, have been described, presumably

occurring via serotonergic mechanisms " . However the second research abstract

states that no significant interations were found in a population of

patients that took both fluoxetine and selegiline.

-gts

---

Title

Antiparkinsonian agents. Drug interactions of clinical significance.

Author

Pfeiffer RF

Address

Division of Neurodegenerative Diseases, University of Tennessee, Memphis,

USA.

Source

Drug Saf, 14(5):343-54 1996 May

Abstract

Within the past 3 decades revolutionary changes have taken place in the

pharmacological management of Parkinson's disease. Used alone, or often in

combination, antiparkinsonian agents can dramatically and meaningfully

ameliorate the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. However, with the

development of effective therapeutic agents has come the potential for drug

interactions; these interactions can produce consequences that range from

the inconsequential to incapacitating and even life-threatening. Drug-drug

interactions are not a major problem with either the anticholinergic

medications or amantadine. However, cumulative anticholinergic toxicity may

occur when multiple drugs with anticholinergic properties are utilised

concomitantly, and amantadine toxicity can be triggered by drugs that impair

its renal clearance. Gastric emptying and levodopa absorption can be

significantly altered by medications and dietary contents. A rather

extensive array of medications can interfere with dopaminergic function and

thus produce clinical parkinsonism or impair the effectiveness of levodopa.

The effectiveness of direct dopamine agonists can also be affected by a

small group of agents. As a selective monoamine oxidase type B (MAO-B)

inhibitor, selegiline (deprenyl) is free of the 'cheese-effect' when

employed in recommended dosages. However, potentially life-threatening drug

interactions, with both pethidine (meperidine) and with fluoxetine and other

antidepressant medications, have been described, presumably occurring via

serotonergic mechanisms. Awareness of the potential for drug interactions

with antiparkinsonian agents, and prompt recognition of them when they do

occur, is vital for the optimum clinical management of Parkinson's disease.

Language

Eng

Unique Identifier

96393965

Title

Fluoxetine and selegiline--lack of significant interaction.

Author

Waters CH

Address

Department of Neurology, University of Southern California, Los Angeles

90033.

Source

Can J Neurol Sci, 21(3):259-61 1994 Aug

Abstract

The use of the combination of fluoxetine, an anti-depressant serotonin

uptake inhibitor, and selegiline, a monoamine oxidase -B inhibitor, was

reviewed in a large population of patients with Parkinson's disease. All

records were reviewed from a Parkinson's disease clinic to determine how

many patients were treated simultaneously with selegiline and fluoxetine.

Patient characteristics, duration and dose of treatment, side effects and

reasons for discontinuation were noted. Twenty-three patients received both

medications at the same time. No additional side effects were noted with the

combination therapy that had not already been reported with each medication

alone. No serious side effects were found. In this clinic population,

fluoxetine and selegiline were used in combination without major side

effects, but further observation is warranted.

Language

Eng

Unique Identifier

95094107

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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As I understand it, the cheese effect is typical only in high doses of

Deprenyl. Is this correct? If 5 mg was taken once or twice a week, one would

not need to worry about this effect; true? Thanks for the clarification (in

advance).

______________________________________________________

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Hi Glenn,

The term 'cheese effect' describes a potentially fatal interaction of MAOs

with certain tyramine containing foods (most notably cheese, beer,nuts,

etc.)resulting in a rather lethal rise in blood pressure.

Regards,

A.

Dear ,

I missed it what is the 'cheese effect'?

--Glenn

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> As I understand it, the cheese effect is typical only in high doses of

> Deprenyl. Is this correct? If 5 mg was taken once or twice a week, one

would

> not need to worry about this effect; true? Thanks for the clarification

(in

> advance).

Yes that is my understanding also. I believe the cheese effect is a problem

only with MAO-A inhibitors. At low doses selegiline (deprenyl) is only a

MAO-B inhibitor. At high doses, of approximately 10 mg/day and higher,

selegiline becomes a MAO-A inhibitor as well.

The question that concerns me and is that of serotonin syndrome, which

is separate and distinct from the cheese effect. Apparently MAO inhibitors

slow the metabolism of serotonin, and so combining them with serotonin

reuptake inhibitors like Prozac can result in an excess of serotonin in the

synapses, which can be dangerous. I'm not certain at what doses the problem

becomes significant.

Here is a link to an excellent article about serotonin syndrome. It mentions

deprenyl.

http://www.uspharmacist.com/NewLook/DisplayArticle.cfm?item_num=94

-gts

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