RE: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

[Guest guest]

Good morning, Janet

We all know of insurance companies that set ridiculously low fees for the docs who are READY AND WILLING to contract with them. So in that case, I guess I could envision the profession saying THIS IS WHAT WE WILL ACCEPT and we are not willing to work for less... However, there doesn't seem to be any lack of DC's who agree to be paid less than $30 a visit, so they would need to be brought on board.

That said:

1) Given the insurance industry's track record for obscene profiteering, I find it very difficult to imagine that this would eliminate their time-honored policy of slash and burn fee cutting just because we say we won't work for less.

I also find it difficult to imagine that all DC's would get on board. After all, it was DC's and other professional groups that created their own exclusive 'provider panels' and made contracts with insurance companies with the intended goal of undercutting the rest of the profession by contracting to work for much less and having exclusive access to patient pools. I also find it difficult to imagine that strata of our profession being content to "share the wealth" and work with the rest of us.

Sorry to be a bit negative. Maybe I just need to 'visualize' a little better...

Do you know of any such instances where that has occurred?

Ann DC

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

Also, what one doc does in her/his office--quick in and out with adjustments only--compared to what another doc does in her/his office--30-40 minutes, mostly hands on, is entirely different and should not be compensated at the same rate. Simply doesn't make sense.

IMHO

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

Good morning, Janet

We all know of insurance companies that set ridiculously low fees for the docs who are READY AND WILLING to contract with them. So in that case, I guess I could envision the profession saying THIS IS WHAT WE WILL ACCEPT and we are not willing to work for less... However, there doesn't seem to be any lack of DC's who agree to be paid less than $30 a visit, so they would need to be brought on board.

That said:

1) Given the insurance industry's track record for obscene profiteering, I find it very difficult to imagine that this would eliminate their time-honored policy of slash and burn fee cutting just because we say we won't work for less.

I also find it difficult to imagine that all DC's would get on board. After all, it was DC's and other professional groups that created their own exclusive 'provider panels' and made contracts with insurance companies with the intended goal of undercutting the rest of the profession by contracting to work for much less and having exclusive access to patient pools. I also find it difficult to imagine that strata of our profession being content to "share the wealth" and work with the rest of us.

Sorry to be a bit negative. Maybe I just need to 'visualize' a little better...

Do you know of any such instances where that has occurred?

Ann DC

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

Also, what one doc does in her/his office--quick in and out with adjustments only--compared to what another doc does in her/his office--30-40 minutes, mostly hands on, is entirely different and should not be compensated at the same rate. Simply doesn't make sense.

IMHO

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

One of the doc said we needed to present it to the association, I agree. If we can get this on board with other docs then maybe other doc here will join in to see the benifit. Once this becomes a state issue we can show other states that we are united and this is how to do it. WE need to know all codes and prices, even if we all do not do the same techniques or therapies. Again it should not matter if one doc is in Portland or one doc is on the coast. One doc replied that it does matter, because somehow he felt that Portland prices needed to be higher. WRONG! It should not be different just because of location. Licensed or not in a technique many docs have studied many aspects of Chiropractic and should be allowed to use any code, but even at that we all still need the same price for that code.

I want to know how many docs out there are interested in working with us to get this to happen here in the State of Oregon. I am going to put this on the list and also send this to Vern. Doc Wiese D.C

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>

Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese"

<docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should

all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in

Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to

discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's

probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: [From

OregonDCs] Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from

Nevada over a year ago and the rules

there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash

patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the

board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very

scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the

going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all

charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we

still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every

doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how

can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I

would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better

yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether

insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra

therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or

cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be

charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are

worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services

away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt

to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and

battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after

being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did

DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked

for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will

change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are

so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

One of the doc said we needed to present it to the association, I agree. If we can get this on board with other docs then maybe other doc here will join in to see the benifit. Once this becomes a state issue we can show other states that we are united and this is how to do it. WE need to know all codes and prices, even if we all do not do the same techniques or therapies. Again it should not matter if one doc is in Portland or one doc is on the coast. One doc replied that it does matter, because somehow he felt that Portland prices needed to be higher. WRONG! It should not be different just because of location. Licensed or not in a technique many docs have studied many aspects of Chiropractic and should be allowed to use any code, but even at that we all still need the same price for that code.

I want to know how many docs out there are interested in working with us to get this to happen here in the State of Oregon. I am going to put this on the list and also send this to Vern. Doc Wiese D.C

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>

Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese"

<docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should

all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in

Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to

discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's

probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: [From

OregonDCs] Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from

Nevada over a year ago and the rules

there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash

patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the

board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very

scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the

going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all

charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we

still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every

doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how

can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I

would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better

yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether

insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra

therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or

cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be

charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are

worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services

away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt

to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and

battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after

being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did

DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked

for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will

change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are

so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Amen, Ann.

As I said some time ago on this listserve, my father and a bunch of

other Oregon farmers tried to band together some 40 years ago to hold

out for higher prices from Safeway, etc., but there were always a few

farmers who would sell out and give Safeway et al the lower price that

they wanted. So it's not likely to work for the chiropractic

profession, either.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

Salem, Oregon

On 2/13/2010 8:16 AM, bluepearl2001@... wrote:

 

Good

morning, Janet

 

We all

know of insurance companies that set ridiculously low fees for the

docs who are READY AND WILLING to contract with them.  So in that case,

I guess I could envision the profession saying THIS IS WHAT WE WILL

ACCEPT and we are not willing to work for less...  However, there doesn't seem to be any lack of DC's who agree

to be paid less than $30 a visit, so they would need to be brought on

board.

 

That said:

1)  Given

the insurance industry's track record for obscene profiteering, I find

it very difficult to imagine that this would eliminate their

time-honored policy of slash and burn fee cutting just because we say

we won't work for less. 

 

I also find it difficult to

imagine that all DC's would get on board.  After all, it was DC's and

other professional groups that created their own exclusive 'provider

panels' and made contracts with insurance companies with the intended

goal of undercutting the rest of the profession by contracting to work

for much less and having exclusive access to patient pools.  I also

find it difficult to imagine that strata of our profession being

content to "share the wealth" and work with the rest of us.

 

Sorry to be a bit negative. 

Maybe I just need to 'visualize' a little better... 

 

Do you know of

any such instances where that has occurred?

Ann DC

 

-----Original

Message-----

From: Dr. Janet L Rueger <jlruegerfoothill (DOT) net>

bluepearl2001cs

Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:30 pm

Subject: RE: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

Dear Ann,

 

As long as the

doc spending 30 – 40 minutes can code appropriately, we should be

okay....I feel we would be wise to set a minimum that we all agree to

abide by for each code.  If a doc wants to charge more, they can, but

we set what the majority of us feel is realistic and reasonable to

charge for a 98940, for a 98941, for a 97124, etc, etc.  It seems

professional to have a fee schedule that is the same for the same

procedure.  Doing so would eliminate insurance companies cutting our

fees.  If we all tell them, these are our fees, and we’ll not work for

less.....a bit of an uproar at first and I feel we would all benefit

and our patients would benefit. 

 

Blessings

Janet L Rueger, DC

149 Clear Creek Dr., Suite 105

Ashland, OR

97520

541-690-6799

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of bluepearl2001cs

Sent: Friday, February

12, 2010 5:09 PM

skrndc1msn; docwiese7 ;

Subject: Re: [From

OregonDCs] Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

 

 

Also,

what one doc does in her/his office--quick in and out with adjustments

only--compared to what another doc does in her/his office--30-40

minutes, mostly hands on, is entirely different and should not be

compensated at the same rate.  Simply doesn't make sense.

IMHO

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

Amen, Ann.

As I said some time ago on this listserve, my father and a bunch of

other Oregon farmers tried to band together some 40 years ago to hold

out for higher prices from Safeway, etc., but there were always a few

farmers who would sell out and give Safeway et al the lower price that

they wanted. So it's not likely to work for the chiropractic

profession, either.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

Salem, Oregon

On 2/13/2010 8:16 AM, bluepearl2001@... wrote:

 

Good

morning, Janet

 

We all

know of insurance companies that set ridiculously low fees for the

docs who are READY AND WILLING to contract with them.  So in that case,

I guess I could envision the profession saying THIS IS WHAT WE WILL

ACCEPT and we are not willing to work for less...  However, there doesn't seem to be any lack of DC's who agree

to be paid less than $30 a visit, so they would need to be brought on

board.

 

That said:

1)  Given

the insurance industry's track record for obscene profiteering, I find

it very difficult to imagine that this would eliminate their

time-honored policy of slash and burn fee cutting just because we say

we won't work for less. 

 

I also find it difficult to

imagine that all DC's would get on board.  After all, it was DC's and

other professional groups that created their own exclusive 'provider

panels' and made contracts with insurance companies with the intended

goal of undercutting the rest of the profession by contracting to work

for much less and having exclusive access to patient pools.  I also

find it difficult to imagine that strata of our profession being

content to "share the wealth" and work with the rest of us.

 

Sorry to be a bit negative. 

Maybe I just need to 'visualize' a little better... 

 

Do you know of

any such instances where that has occurred?

Ann DC

 

-----Original

Message-----

From: Dr. Janet L Rueger <jlruegerfoothill (DOT) net>

bluepearl2001cs

Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:30 pm

Subject: RE: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

Dear Ann,

 

As long as the

doc spending 30 – 40 minutes can code appropriately, we should be

okay....I feel we would be wise to set a minimum that we all agree to

abide by for each code.  If a doc wants to charge more, they can, but

we set what the majority of us feel is realistic and reasonable to

charge for a 98940, for a 98941, for a 97124, etc, etc.  It seems

professional to have a fee schedule that is the same for the same

procedure.  Doing so would eliminate insurance companies cutting our

fees.  If we all tell them, these are our fees, and we’ll not work for

less.....a bit of an uproar at first and I feel we would all benefit

and our patients would benefit. 

 

Blessings

Janet L Rueger, DC

149 Clear Creek Dr., Suite 105

Ashland, OR

97520

541-690-6799

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of bluepearl2001cs

Sent: Friday, February

12, 2010 5:09 PM

skrndc1msn; docwiese7 ;

Subject: Re: [From

OregonDCs] Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

 

 

Also,

what one doc does in her/his office--quick in and out with adjustments

only--compared to what another doc does in her/his office--30-40

minutes, mostly hands on, is entirely different and should not be

compensated at the same rate.  Simply doesn't make sense.

IMHO

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

Amen, Ann.

As I said some time ago on this listserve, my father and a bunch of

other Oregon farmers tried to band together some 40 years ago to hold

out for higher prices from Safeway, etc., but there were always a few

farmers who would sell out and give Safeway et al the lower price that

they wanted. So it's not likely to work for the chiropractic

profession, either.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

Salem, Oregon

On 2/13/2010 8:16 AM, bluepearl2001@... wrote:

 

Good

morning, Janet

 

We all

know of insurance companies that set ridiculously low fees for the

docs who are READY AND WILLING to contract with them.  So in that case,

I guess I could envision the profession saying THIS IS WHAT WE WILL

ACCEPT and we are not willing to work for less...  However, there doesn't seem to be any lack of DC's who agree

to be paid less than $30 a visit, so they would need to be brought on

board.

 

That said:

1)  Given

the insurance industry's track record for obscene profiteering, I find

it very difficult to imagine that this would eliminate their

time-honored policy of slash and burn fee cutting just because we say

we won't work for less. 

 

I also find it difficult to

imagine that all DC's would get on board.  After all, it was DC's and

other professional groups that created their own exclusive 'provider

panels' and made contracts with insurance companies with the intended

goal of undercutting the rest of the profession by contracting to work

for much less and having exclusive access to patient pools.  I also

find it difficult to imagine that strata of our profession being

content to "share the wealth" and work with the rest of us.

 

Sorry to be a bit negative. 

Maybe I just need to 'visualize' a little better... 

 

Do you know of

any such instances where that has occurred?

Ann DC

 

-----Original

Message-----

From: Dr. Janet L Rueger <jlruegerfoothill (DOT) net>

bluepearl2001cs

Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:30 pm

Subject: RE: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

Dear Ann,

 

As long as the

doc spending 30 – 40 minutes can code appropriately, we should be

okay....I feel we would be wise to set a minimum that we all agree to

abide by for each code.  If a doc wants to charge more, they can, but

we set what the majority of us feel is realistic and reasonable to

charge for a 98940, for a 98941, for a 97124, etc, etc.  It seems

professional to have a fee schedule that is the same for the same

procedure.  Doing so would eliminate insurance companies cutting our

fees.  If we all tell them, these are our fees, and we’ll not work for

less.....a bit of an uproar at first and I feel we would all benefit

and our patients would benefit. 

 

Blessings

Janet L Rueger, DC

149 Clear Creek Dr., Suite 105

Ashland, OR

97520

541-690-6799

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of bluepearl2001cs

Sent: Friday, February

12, 2010 5:09 PM

skrndc1msn; docwiese7 ;

Subject: Re: [From

OregonDCs] Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

 

 

Also,

what one doc does in her/his office--quick in and out with adjustments

only--compared to what another doc does in her/his office--30-40

minutes, mostly hands on, is entirely different and should not be

compensated at the same rate.  Simply doesn't make sense.

IMHO

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

One thing you may not be taking into account is that docs DO have different overhead costs depending where they practice. Their tax rate also changes from county to county.

A DC

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

One thing you may not be taking into account is that docs DO have different overhead costs depending where they practice. Their tax rate also changes from county to county.

A DC

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Does it really matter, when the insurance companies still pay the same no matter where you practice? It is for us to decide on price and unite, if possible. Well, it did not work with the farmer and yes there are always those cowards that are self absorbed into their own selfish ways behind everyone else's back, but we should still have across the board standard prices to bill these insurance companies and cash patients. No one said it has to be so low in price that it does not compare to the Portland prices. It should be the Portland prices if that is what it takes. We need a standard we all follow and can agree upon. (the biggest problem)

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>

Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Does it really matter, when the insurance companies still pay the same no matter where you practice? It is for us to decide on price and unite, if possible. Well, it did not work with the farmer and yes there are always those cowards that are self absorbed into their own selfish ways behind everyone else's back, but we should still have across the board standard prices to bill these insurance companies and cash patients. No one said it has to be so low in price that it does not compare to the Portland prices. It should be the Portland prices if that is what it takes. We need a standard we all follow and can agree upon. (the biggest problem)

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>

Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Sorry, did not put my name.Doc Wiese D.C Ashland, OR

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>

Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Sorry, did not put my name.Doc Wiese D.C Ashland, OR

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>

Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?

Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other.

That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy.

Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

While it may sound like a noble idea, there are SO many reasons and levels why it couldn't/wouldn't work.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

docwiese7@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:55:06 -0500Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

One thing you may not be taking into account is that docs DO have different overhead costs depending where they practice. Their tax rate also changes from county to county.

A DC

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other. That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy. Doc Wiese D.C

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.

[Guest guest]

While it may sound like a noble idea, there are SO many reasons and levels why it couldn't/wouldn't work.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

docwiese7@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:55:06 -0500Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

One thing you may not be taking into account is that docs DO have different overhead costs depending where they practice. Their tax rate also changes from county to county.

A DC

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other. That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy. Doc Wiese D.C

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.

[Guest guest]

Interesting and sad. I did not know how they did this. I have asked Vern how to go about this from a legal way. It seems to me and others that we should be able to have some standard, so we can some type of unison between us and this professional problem. There must be a way around this, there is always a way in law. Your other comment "obviously stupid and Draconian contracts." Do you believe that these figures are Draconian?

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other. That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy. Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Interesting and sad. I did not know how they did this. I have asked Vern how to go about this from a legal way. It seems to me and others that we should be able to have some standard, so we can some type of unison between us and this professional problem. There must be a way around this, there is always a way in law. Your other comment "obviously stupid and Draconian contracts." Do you believe that these figures are Draconian?

From: joe medlin <spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net>Subject: Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies@grou ps.com, "Walter Wiese" <docwiese7 (DOT) com>Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:01 PM

I love your honesty and i also believe we should all be on the same page Dr. Wiese. Unfortunately in Oregon we are supposedly forbidden to discuss our fees amongst eachother by law. You believe that? It's probably why we're all over the map.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Re: Re:LMT's sued by insurance companies

I moved here from Nevada over a year ago and the rules there is if they catch a chiro billing different amounts from cash patient then an insurance patient they call this insurance fraud and the board will come in and we were in big trouble. We all were very scared of billing different prices. We also checked to see what the going rate was in the Reno Area and pretty much that was what we all charged. Even though there is no law by the books on charges we still did it. I come here and it is all over the board. Plus every doc I know charges less for their office visit for a cash patient, how can that be?Could a few of you out there put your charges for the going rates, I would like to see how everyone feels about what they are worth or better yet what Chiropractic is worth! I charge $60 whether insurance or cash for my adjustments, this does not count any extra therapy. I charge $100 for my exams whether insurance or cash. Should we not have some uniform idea to what we all should be charging for WHAT CHIROPRACTIC IS WORTH and not what we think we are worth over the next guy. Do we really have to give our services away to beat out the chiro down the street if we are worth a bit of salt to our profession. We should stand strong together not divided and battling each other. That my piece of this miserable battle we have in this profession after being in practice 26 years seeing the same old problems. What did DD and BJ feel Chiropractic was worth, they were so busy they were booked for months. I know I am just blowing in the wind for nothing will change. We don't even share with other doctors our prices, we are so secret about how to get our paycheck other the next guy. Doc Wiese D.C

[Guest guest]

Yes I believe the 100 page soul selling managed care contracts and

below cost payments offered preferred providers are draconian... And

the fact that we cannot even discuss it under the laws!

Swanson

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 13, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Walter Wiese <docwiese7@...>

wrote:

> Your other comment " obviously stupid and Draconian contracts. " Do

> you believe that these figures are Draconian?

[Guest guest]

Yes I believe the 100 page soul selling managed care contracts and

below cost payments offered preferred providers are draconian... And

the fact that we cannot even discuss it under the laws!

Swanson

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 13, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Walter Wiese <docwiese7@...>

wrote:

> Your other comment " obviously stupid and Draconian contracts. " Do

> you believe that these figures are Draconian?